Star Wars (LE)
Stern, 2017
Star Wars (Premium)
Stern, 2017
Star Wars (Pro)
Stern, 2017"samey hot mess"
Such an in-depth and honest review. Thank you for putting into words the frustration i felt after playing Star Wars a handful of times. I love the speed and the flow but a lot of the time i felt like a 6 year old playing pinball for the first time continually flipping and having no idea what i was doing. Pinball should be fun, not exhausting.
Quoted from jar155:I have a feeling that this game will have a hot moment of popularity and then people will get fatigued by it.
This happens with almost every new game though, except titles like WWE which are just super bad licenses. SW will have its run and then the next game will be announced in November/December.
Quoted from jar155:The plunge on this game is terrible
Quoted from jar155:By ball 2 of your first game, you already know the exact timing to get the max skill shot reward,
Does the timing change? Maybe that's something Dwight will eventually tweak.
Quoted from jar155:The game is always teetering on the edge of control. That can be fun in bursts, but to always have every shot leading to a blazing fast return is just too much
Yet this is what people want so much in the TNA threads. Short ball times and out of control play.
Quoted from jar155:All the stand ups cause a lot of airballs. Bad ones. I think the flippers are overpowered here.
Flippers in Spike games have been overpowered since the new design in GoT. I don't know why there isn't a method to adjust this because it sure would be nice! I never saw noticeable airballs in the Dead Flip stream or any other video posted. I was playing my MET tonight and was getting airballs on it too from the standups.
Quoted from jar155:I was cold on Aerosmith out of the gate, but I am liking it more and more these days. I hope Star Wars goes through a similar process for me.
AS looks very fun and I would have bought one, but I waited for SW. I already have 2 music pins though and don't really want a third.
Rob
Quoted from Rob_G:I don't know why there isn't a method to adjust this because it sure would be nice!
Coil pulse power. Set it to soft.
While not to the JJP standards of "fine-tuning", it still makes all the Spike games play smoother/better...
Even if you dig a 7.5 degree PF.
What we really need on SW (and GOT...) is GB's awesome trough eject adjustment. The minimum setting is perfect on GB.
I cringe a little every time I hear the ball hulk-smash(!) into SW's shooter lane.
No need to try and blast through the side of the cab with each ball Dwight.
Quoted from Rob_G:Yet this is what people want so much in the TNA threads. Short ball times and out of control play.
Big difference imo is short ball times and speed suit TNA as a theme, as Jar said and I totally agree Star Wars paces itself out, the speed of SW didn't feel right with me the first time I saw footage of the pro, looks ALOT of fun but just doesn't look like SW, which more than a few people have said.
Quoted from jar155:Ok, it's not ALL bad with Star Wars, but I don't like the sum of its parts when it comes right down to it. I just wanted so much more from the Star Wars theme than we got here. It feels like they cranked the speed up to distract you from the fact that it's a pretty bare game.
The playfield shots are smooth as silk, and shots, when made, just feel right. The geometry of a game is something that Steve Ritchie just seems to understand better than most anybody. Some shots are tight, some are easy, but they all feel pretty much where they should be. It's hard thing to put into words, but you feel it when you play. Compared to something like Aerosmith or Batman '66, Star Wars just has a more refined feel to its geometry.
The sounds on the game are pretty cool. That spinner sound is the best since Metallica. Lots of neat little sounds are found throughout the game. Stern usually does a pretty solid job on sound packages, and Star Wars is definitely no exception.
I'm really not digging the code on the game. Bugs aside (and holy jeez there are plenty), it is totally the wrong type of game progression for how fast it plays. Shots get back to the flipper so quickly, that it's hard to keep up with what you're doing in the game. It's a bummer, because while the game has TONS of modes, they all end up feeling so samey because the ball is just flying around and you're fighting to keep control. Game of Thrones is also very fast, but the modes feel better differentiated, and it doesn't feel like a constant race against ticking timers. Star Wars gets in your face with too many hurry ups, too many timers, and too many dang layers of things going on. And you better like multiballs, because they are to be had at every turn.
Then you have the action button. It's way overused, and there's nothing fun about having to constantly babysit that thing. You have to use it to unlock, move, and lock in your multipliers, you have to blow up TIE fighters with it, you need to hold it down to add a ball in multiball, and you have to unlock and move your multipliers again. Don't forget to lock them or else you'll make your shots but they'll be worth, literally, a 40th of what they could. The game barely gives you a chance to breathe, but you're expected to keep up with slapping that action button so often? That was not even close to fun.
There are also some real head scratchers with Star Wars. Why do they even have pop bumpers in this thing? The ball rarely goes in there, and when it does, it's completely hidden from view. You can't see the pop action at all, because the mini LCD screen blocks it. They feel like they're in there simply because "a game should have pop bumpers." The mini LCD is nothing special either. It helps you on the "skill" shot, and then it's used fairly sparingly from there. You barely have time to check it for indicators anyway, because the ball is always at top speed. The kind-of-a-scoop is a bummer. I've played on 7 different machines now, and all of them had reject issues. Stern could have spent an extra buck and put a proper scoop in there. The eject from that shot is wild too. Blah.
The plunge on this game is terrible. By ball 2 of your first game, you already know the exact timing to get the max skill shot reward, but it sends the ball into an out-of-control state in the lower half of the playfield. Not a fun way to start a ball. Less fun when the ball saver just throws the ball back into chaos again. I would prefer the option to short plunge for the stand ups or to full plunge to the pops. Make it so you can risk chaos for a multiplier or play safe if you want to. But no, Star Wars never takes its foot off the pedal.
The game is always teetering on the edge of control. That can be fun in bursts, but to always have every shot leading to a blazing fast return is just too much. All the stand ups cause a lot of airballs. Bad ones. I think the flippers are overpowered here. It's just one speed to experience: maximum. The Star Wars films aren't some adrenaline-fueled spaz fest. They are very measured in how they dole out action, and the speed of the game just doesn't feel like a good match to the franchise at all.
And that's really my biggest disappointment here. It doesn't feel like Star Wars at all. It looks like Star Wars, but once you start playing, it just melts away. Stacking up Hoth and Tatooine stuff seems so strange. It's like an extreme over reaction to people not liking the Ghostbusters ladder system, so they just let you throw everything in a blender. Makes for a weird use of the theme.
The game is still very much in development, so things can evolve on the code front quite a bit, but I doubt it's going to dramatically change how the game feels to play. It's always going to be too fast for all the layers it's trying to put into the experience. Once the rush of the game's speed wears off, it just feels overwhelming. It's really hard to parse out why a shot scored the way it did, because some shots will have so many things stacked on them beyond what the game can adequately indicate.
I have a feeling that this game will have a hot moment of popularity and then people will get fatigued by it. Once you start getting dialed into the shots, you start having these insanely long ball times of super fast play. Multiball rolls into multiball, modes sit on top of modes, and it all just blurs into a samey hot mess. Almost all the games you play start feeling so alike. Even Ghostbusters, as linear as it is, has games that feel very different from one another. I can't seem to find out how to do that in Star Wars.
I was cold on Aerosmith out of the gate, but I am liking it more and more these days. I hope Star Wars goes through a similar process for me.
How would you compare steve's 24 in comparison? Would you say 24 is more innovative without the LCD stuff? I haven't played much SW, but I do enjoy 24.
Quoted from jar155:I'm really not digging the code on the game.
I'm of the opposite opinion on this. I think the code out of the gate is pretty stellar (bugs aside) and will only get better with more tweaks.
Quoted from jar155:Then you have the action button.
This has added a new dimension to risk/reward. Tracking your multipliers, building them up and changing them on the fly is frantic and exhilarating. Having it all line up is hugely rewarding, just as having it there then watching the ball go down because you took your hand off at the wrong time. This game will be awesome in tournaments.
I can see how some players won't like it at all. This is not a relaxing walk in the park. This is flying through an asteroid field where your odds of survival are ... "Never tell me the odds!"
Quoted from jar155:Why do they even have pop bumpers in this thing?
Agree. I hope Dwight has more plans for these. I'm glad the ball doesn't end up there often.
Quoted from jar155:The mini LCD is nothing special either.
Tough to judge this until code is complete. I'm sure more is planned.
Quoted from jar155:I've played on 7 different machines now, and all of them had reject issues.
We have one machine, and it's left flipper every time. Level and adjust as needed? This is on the OP to make sure it works. Just like any game that kicks it back towards the flippers.
Quoted from jar155:But no, Star Wars never takes its foot off the pedal.
I think Steve designed it that way. Kind of the point ... the game is fast!
Quoted from jar155:The game is always teetering on the edge of control. That can be fun in bursts, but to always have every shot leading to a blazing fast return is just too much. All the stand ups cause a lot of airballs. Bad ones. I think the flippers are overpowered here. It's just one speed to experience: maximum. The Star Wars films aren't some adrenaline-fueled spaz fest. They are very measured in how they dole out action, and the speed of the game just doesn't feel like a good match to the franchise at all.
Matches my favourite parts of the movies for me ... massive space battles, flying through an asteroid field, fighting a rancor, Hoth being invaded, speeder bikes through a forest ... pure speed and chaos. I'm not sure how they would fit in negotiating with Jabba, partying with Ewoks or having a drink in a cantina. This will be a personal opinion for players for sure.
Quoted from jar155:Almost all the games you play start feeling so alike.
I've got about 40 games in so far, and I could see that if you pick the same character and same path every game. I've found it helps to watch others play to pick up on a lot of the little things going on.
The Emperor chortling for dangers makes me laugh every time.
Quoted from jar155:It's always going to be too fast for all the layers it's trying to put into the experience. Once the rush of the game's speed wears off, it just feels overwhelming.
For some players I'm sure it will be. Others may enjoy the speed and chaos. It's a good thing not every pin is a slow, floaty mess with game times measured in 20 minute blocks. I think this pin will be stellar on location for OPS.
Quoted from NimblePin:Coil pulse power. Set it to soft.
I believe this setting does nothing to the flippers. Only the other coils.
For the Tatooine scoop, try setting the coil power to 15. This worked perfectly on the two SW pro we had in our launch party. Delivers the ball at a controllable speed to the right flipper. Some may think this setting is too easy, but the rest of the game is so fast this setting seems to balance that out a little.
Quoted from jar155:I have a feeling that this game will have a hot moment of popularity and then people will get fatigued by it. Once you start getting dialed into the shots, you start having these insanely long ball times of super fast play. Multiball rolls into multiball, modes sit on top of modes, and it all just blurs into a samey hot mess. Almost all the games you play start feeling so alike.
Pretty much disagreed with this entire review except the spinner and sounds, love the action button, loving the code and shots, have not even become remotely fatigued, I can see it sure but if you like speed, open playfield concept, good sound/lighting and the theme I mean to each his own but for me this kicks AS ass. 
Quoted from PACMAN:I love the speed and the flow but a lot of the time i felt like a 6 year old playing pinball for the first time continually flipping and having no idea what i was doing.
I think that's an awesome way to view it! Bring some new ideas into pinball, make people redefine what they think they already know.
"C'mon Stern, do something new!" followed by "Boo Stern, this is different!"
People are fickle beings.
Quoted from NimblePin:Sounds like you haven't tried it yet.
Tried it on GB and GOT. Noticed no change in the flippers. I also don't see mention of flipper strength here.
Quoted from chuckwurt:Also how does this setting affect the right scoop?
On GB we have a setting to affect the power on the librarian left scoop itself. Had to adjust it because it would kick out SDTM too often.
Does this not exist for SW scoop?
Quoted from iceman44:On GB we have a setting to affect the power on the librarian left scoop itself. Had to adjust it because it would kick out SDTM too often.
Does this not exist for SW scoop?
It's there. My point is does this coil strength setting also affect it?
Why isn't there a separate setting for flippers too like the scoop?
Quoted from iceman44:On GB we have a setting to affect the power on the librarian left scoop itself. Had to adjust it because it would kick out SDTM too often.
Does this not exist for SW scoop?
Yes it does... I can't remember exactly what it is called ATM but I think it is right kickout or maybe scoop ...I believe factory is 50? I set mine to 30 and it kicks out at a reasonable speed to the left flipper. Without it dribbling out really slowly or rocketing out so fast you don't even see it before it goes down the middle.
Phoebe
I'd say it still makes a difference Chuck.
Try setting it to HARD then if you don't believe me.
(It's only 12.5% after all.)
My GOT and GBP was basically unplayable on normal settings.
Everything was much too powerful.
Spike for some reason always feels high tapped in my house.
Once I set it to soft, the airballs off the main ramp on GBP were a thing of the past and felt normal again. GOT's was the same. Tried SW for a handful of games switching back and forth and could tell the difference on the horseshoe shot for sure.
Maybe I have really good line voltage?
Why we have the extra scoop adjustments is to allow which flipper we want to feed it to, as well as compensate for a possibly mis-aligned (or damaged) scoop.
Not sure if already posted but the prem/le manual is up: http://www.sternpinball.com/upload/games/star/premium/StarWars_LE_Pre_web.pdf
I wasn't aware that they only use a few music tracks from John Williams. But I just realized that by watching this gameplay video. What a bummer. I only counted the main theme, the imperial march and the end credits or rebel theme... that's it?? The rest is something else... which I don't like at all. Was about to order a Pro tomorrow. But I am not sure about that anymore.
Quoted from tatapolus:I wasn't aware that they only use a few music tracks from John Williams. But I just realized that by watching this gameplay video. What a bummer. I only counted the main theme, the imperial march and the end credits or rebel theme... that's it?? The rest is something else... which I don't like at all. Was about to order a Pro tomorrow. But I am not sure about that anymore.
» YouTube video
The music was a separate license and very expensive. The Stern guy doing the custom music is very talented and did a phenomenal job on GB. Most gameplay videos have crappy sound so it's difficult to really judge game sound by that. But, what I have heard sounds good to me.
Rob
Quoted from tatapolus:I wasn't aware that they only use a few music tracks from John Williams. But I just realized that by watching this gameplay video. What a bummer. I only counted the main theme, the imperial march and the end credits or rebel theme... that's it?? The rest is something else... which I don't like at all. Was about to order a Pro tomorrow. But I am not sure about that anymore.
» YouTube video
I would wait and play it on location first. My impressions match those that have been underwhelmed with this game for various reasons....
Who is still waiting for a SWLE video:
Freddys-Pinball-Paradise had the requirement to all visitors "don´t make any video".
Most likely the LE firmware is not finally approved by disney.
Self I wasn´t there.
Sorry about, couldn´t know that at my announcement last week.
Quoted from DerRoland:Who is still waiting for a SWLE video:
Freddys-Pinball-Paradise had the requirement to all visitors "don´t make any video".
Most likely the LE firmware is not finally approved by disney.
Self I wasn´t there.
Sorry about, couldn´t know that at my announcement last week.
Thanks for explaining that! I had no idea why it has not been shown yet
Quoted from LewisD:I had a chance to play about 6-7 games of SW Pro at ReplayFX at Cointaker’s booth. I honestly was not impressed at all, and I’m a huge Star Wars fan. I kept going back to play Aerosmith, which is such an awesomely fun game.
Same. There was a constant line for this game, but when I had a chance to play it I was not really blown away by the playfield layout. I also have mixed feelings about the LCDs on these new games. There is just not much chance to interact with it when your eyes are glued to the ball. Dialed In managed to utilize the LCD in an interesting way with the news report theme.
Quoted from CosmoJoe:Same. There was a constant line for this game, but when I had a chance to play it I was not really blown away by the playfield layout. I also have mixed feelings about the LCDs on these new games. There is just not much chance to interact with it when your eyes are glued to the ball. Dialed In managed to utilize the LCD in an interesting way with the news report theme.
I feel like Stern is trying to incorporate the display into the game play a bit too much with this game. The display shouldn't really be much more than a glorified DMD. If you didn't like video modes on earlier DMD games than why should you with a full color LCD? Let the visuals be there for the player when completing a mode, bonus screens, etc., but for all other times add to the enjoyment of those watching the player.
I think jar155 hit the nail on the head.
Put me in the camp of SW nerds that are disappointed with the final package. I can only imagine what JJP could have done with this license. I guarantee the design would look & play nothing like the Stern pin.
I think it's great that they came up with something new, via the moving/lockable multipliers & use of the action button, but it seems like such a poor choice on a game that is so fast. Add in the fact that you barley have a chance to look & absorb the shot info on the LCD, and with lacking callouts, blended stacked movie modes, it could make for a pretty confusing experience. Especially for non-pinheads.
I've been waiting for a dream theme modern SW pin for years. But after I've had a chance to think it over, I've decided to pass for now. There are just too many games out there with great gameplay to take a gamble on an early SW order.
I bought an IMVE instead
Quoted from DerRoland:Who is still waiting for a SWLE video:
Freddys-Pinball-Paradise had the requirement to all visitors "don´t make any video".
Most likely the LE firmware is not finally approved by disney.
Self I wasn´t there.
Sorry about, couldn´t know that at my announcement last week.
As was explained to me, Stern is trying to have control over initial videos of gameplay footage. This is the reason that the early pros shipped without SD cards, because Stern hadn't put out the deadflip stream yet. Once that stream went live, the SD cards with code were released. So I imagine that Stern allowed Freddy's to get an LE early but required them to enforce no video footage, ensuring that Stern will be the one to release the first footage of the LE gameplay.
Quoted from parabol420:As was explained to me, Stern is trying to have control over initial videos of gameplay footage. This is the reason that the early pros shipped without SD cards, because Stern hadn't put out the deadflip stream yet. Once that stream went live, the SD cards with code were released. So I imagine that Stern allowed Freddy's to get an LE early but required them to enforce no video footage, ensuring that Stern will be the one to release the first footage of the LE gameplay.
Translation = Speculation
Reality = Really dumb move by Stern
Quoted from PACMAN:I love the speed and the flow but a lot of the time i felt like a 6 year old playing pinball for the first time continually flipping and having no idea what i was doing.
Oh no you mean you have to *gasp* learn the rules?
Quoted from TheLaw:Oh no you mean you have to *gasp* learn the rules?
It would help if there were some callouts, fanfare when you complete something, and no auto-plunge (to give the player time to digest what was happening on the playfield and LCD screen).
Another thing, it seems it would be better if multiplier lanes be locked on when you plunge the ball regardless of whether you selected particular lanes or not. That way whichever lanes are lit when you plunge would be what you started with rather than not getting multipliers at all until you hit the stupid lockdown button.
Quoted from DCFAN:It would help if there were some callouts, fanfare when you complete something, and no auto-plunge (to give the player time to digest what was happening on the playfield and LCD screen).
You just described SWE1
Quoted from TheLaw:Oh no you mean you have to *gasp* learn the rules?
The issue isn't about learning the rules, which actually aren't that complicated. The problem is that they're the wrong set of rules for the layout. Total disconnect. The layout does not lend itself well to a game that has that many layers of things going on in the software or mechanically with the action button.
Quoted from TheLaw:Yeah I hear ya there. It seems the more tech advanced they get some of the simple things can get lost with these newer games.
I actually talked to Jack about this during Replay. There is a lot of new tech and processing power that you can utilize in pinball design, but how do you do it in a way that is clever and enhances core gameplay. I remember in the 90's when computer CDRoms first became prevalent, and you had a deluge of shitty ass games with FMV all over the place, likely hoping to sell by sheer novelty. I am sure that is a struggle for the new gen of pinball machines as well.
Quoted from tatapolus:I wasn't aware that they only use a few music tracks from John Williams. But I just realized that by watching this gameplay video. What a bummer. I only counted the main theme, the imperial march and the end credits or rebel theme... that's it?? The rest is something else... which I don't like at all. Was about to order a Pro tomorrow. But I am not sure about that anymore.
» YouTube video
Oh my god the cutout of the ship that flies by at 16:03 is hilarious. All the ship cutouts look like they're being dragged around in photoshop. Those wiggling tie fighters...
Quoted from jar155:The problem is that they're the wrong set of rules for the layout.
Huh I haven't played it yet so i can't comment, but that seems to be reading too seep into it would be my guess.
Quoted from trunchbull:All the ship cutouts look like they're being dragged around in photoshop. Those wiggling tie fighters...
Maybe After Effects so same thing.
Quoted from trunchbull:All the ship cutouts look like they're being dragged around in photoshop. Those wiggling tie fighters...
Yeah JJP has the same issue and everyone's in the same boat here.
Pretty funny that even at the pinnacle of current pinball tech, we are still 10+ years behind...pachinko. That stuff has had full 3d rendered scenes for a long time, in addition to FMV and compositing of the "slot reels" on the screen. Sound systems are frankly better on modern pachinko too! 
Quoted from TheLaw:It actually makes a lot of sense, I'm sure pachinko is actually a big money maker.
Not as much as it used to be. The younger generation isn't as hot on it as the old folks. One reason Konami has been pushing hard to legalize gambling in Japan - they see the end of the pachinko money river.
I am actually pleasantly surprised with the custom animation/graphics so early in the evolution of this platform. I'm sure their full resolution 3D graphics design will get better over time, but it seems ridiculous to expect visuals on par with big budget applications at this point.
Quoted from alveolus:I am actually pleasantly surprised with the custom animation/graphics so early in the evolution of this platform. I'm sure their full resolution 3D graphics design will get better over time, but it seems ridiculous to expect visuals on par with big budget applications at this point.
I will say that in this regard, Dialed In does have a big edge. The fact that it doesn't look like photochop+Flash animation is *really* nice. I think it's an acceptable level to what I'd expect, once they get the code finished and everything animated for the phone screen as well.
Quoted from alveolus:I am actually pleasantly surprised with the custom animation/graphics so early in the evolution of this platform. I'm sure their full resolution 3D graphics design will get better over time, but it seems ridiculous to expect visuals on par with big budget applications at this point.
It's not complicated to create decent 3D graphics these days. A lot of TV shows meant for kids went 3D graphics due to the lower production cost and that it's faster.
Look at Wizard of Oz. That was JJP's first stab at using an LCD screen and they have effects and animations in there that are leagues beyond what is in Star Wars.
Maybe Stern will improve what they do with the screens going forward, but some of it looks pretty weak right now.
Played a pro SW. Fast, but a disappointingly simple, over used layout by Steve Richie. Basic left ramp and right ramp, like ACDC. Other than a small inner loop, thats it. SW is such a great theme, it deserved a much more imaginative layout. Upper playfield for LE/prem, third flipper, or something. Look at GOT, or even Elvis. John Borg should have designed SW. I respect Steve R. but past innovative designs do not make an unimaginative design on such a fantastic theme forgivable. You have to stay hungry to design something great.
Quoted from jar155:It's not complicated to create decent 3D graphics these days. A lot of TV shows meant for kids went 3D graphics due to the lower production cost and that it's faster.
Look at Wizard of Oz. That was JJP's first stab at using an LCD screen and they have effects and animations in there that are leagues beyond what is in Star Wars.
Maybe Stern will improve what they do with the screens going forward, but some of it looks pretty weak right now.
JJP used Nick from greyscalegorilla to do is stuff if i am not mistaking and for the price... sterns animation are leagues under what jjp is serving up.
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