(Topic ID: 175720)

Stern announces another price increase- TELL THEM NO!


By shacklersrevenge

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 804 posts
  • 223 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by JY64
  • Topic is favorited by 12 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “Will you continue to buy NEW Stern games?”

    • No 510 votes
      75%
    • Yes 85 votes
      12%
    • unsure 87 votes
      13%

    (682 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

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    There are 804 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 17.
    #51 3 years ago

    I'm voting with my wallet too.

    In the past 2 years I've purchased 3 Stern NIB; METEL / ACDC prem / GB prem. With lack of code, issues with all of them and the high cost. I'm out

    BTW: I do like the looks of BM66 but I'm out.

    #52 3 years ago

    Well it's going to be real easy for me to pass on aerosmith , no chance I would ever buy anything aerosmith .

    #53 3 years ago
    Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

    Certainly, right after I don't have to hear another Canadian bitch to me about the exchange rate and having to pay border fees to get their game.

    Ok, Australian here, we also have to deal with a crappy exchange rate and local taxes
    A NIB Stern is about $10000

    -5
    #54 3 years ago

    First of all what game are you referring to at what price? Every one of their new games are priced different from their previous release. I have been a manufactures sales rep for the past 5 years. Every one of our lines goes up on average 2 to 3 percent every year. Part prices go up every year. This is not shocking news. Seriously...seems like your trolling to start another shit show

    #55 3 years ago

    Better get your Batman SuperLEs before the big price increase....

    #56 3 years ago
    Quoted from hawkmoon:

    I have been waiting since May for my GB/PRe,still no word!! Now,we hear the new B66 needs lane protectors like GB???Yes,I may be DONE, as well!!!!

    GAP has them in stock. Cancel your order with your distributor and contact mike

    #57 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Better get your Batman SuperLEs before the big price increase....

    Thank God I got in under the wire on Pabst Can Crusher!

    37
    #58 3 years ago

    This has been a boiling pot for a while now - going back to Transformers with its "roadblock" code issue and the year it took to solve it - then we had ACDC LE with cloudy window and simple code (which thankfully got fixed after about 6 months), X-Men with the worst code ever and multiple design and engineering issues, Metallica with base code and design issues (thankfully fixed)...and on and on...WWE, Kiss, ST, and up through GB. All these games have had problems yet the prices keep going up.

    STLE was my breaking point - when 8 months had passed and the asteroid flashers weren't coded yet, I was told "who cares, regular players don't notice that stuff". That's no excuse for extra features to NOT BE CODED. If you don't want to code the extra features, don't include them!!!! Sold it, don't miss it.

    Even though "I know the drill" by now, I was in on Ghostbusters due to dream theme factor...and as usual - they fucked it up! Horrible, untested design problems, code issues, bugs, and then "Insertgate". Logic dictates that the game sucking should have been enough to cancel my order, but logic isn't our strong suit sometimes....the ghosting inserts was finally the "final straw" that made me get a refund...and now I'm officially done. I won't buy a NIB pre-launch from ANYONE at this point. Seriously - NONE of these companies have their shit together.

    JJP is the closest, at the moment. I have a lot of respect for them for putting a bunch of Dialed Ins out on test locations. They'll be able to learn a lot from that and make the production games way more trouble free than the way Stern does things.

    #59 3 years ago

    I am turning into a cynic I guess.

    That said, every price increase has held the same reaction. People calling for a boycott, stating they are never buying another NIB.
    It's been that way for years. Unfortunately, while some people do hold to it, it's never going to be enough for Stern to react. I know people are hoping for change, but reality isn't there.

    There are definitely a lot more choices, but Stern still can't keep up with demand. Folks here do know Stern does keep an eye on Pinside, but we don't make up a large percentage of their sales, so ten people saying "no" is more of a feel-good for yourself action, and not a kick in the bank account to Stern.

    I wish it was different, but it's the reality of things.

    #60 3 years ago

    Jodi Stankburg Greedy

    -10
    #61 3 years ago

    Ive had to buy a lower grade health Insurance Because prices have gone up.
    Ive had to take a lower cost vacation, because of Price Increases.
    Ive started to take a tight look at food, because of increases.
    I have less coming in being retired, and only bought my first NIB, a couple years ago.
    It ends with GB.

    I love Stern, and JJP, and all Games.....But this is a problem.

    Used is where I am back to, and I dont mind at all.

    But we have Global Cost Changes likely coming with the New administration,
    and Stern Raising again, means only those earning more will feel no issues with this....maybe.

    Its time, and I hate to say this....maybe they can get some tax incentives, but time to move the factory.
    This Labor is from $3-$6 an hour just across the border, and trucking costs are minimal.

    It is a way to get full featured Pros back with profit at $3995 and top of the line at $5995.

    Homeowners and collectors would benefit.....How much would this mean to Route operators????

    Time to start listening a bit to customers, and if it stays status quo, data mine your customers for Toys and features.

    Many of us, as independents, would love to see a toy idea or Proto, make it into a game.

    Not every game needs to be over the top to be fun.....Iron Man, to me, is a perfect example.

    I know its a bottom line deal, but its time to look at Labor costs, efficiency, and anything and everything else to squeeze out the profits needed, without the easiest method...simply raising prices.

    I feel bad for the Hobby about this....How cool to be back at $3K HUO after a few years...??

    That, to me, is how you grow the Hobby with New Blood.

    #62 3 years ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    Ive had to buy a lower grade health Insurance Because prices have gone up.
    Ive had to take a lower cost vacation, because of Price Increases.
    Ive started to take a tight look at food, because of increases.

    Lets hope you're not having to cut corners in the kush department.

    #63 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Lets hope you're not having to cut corners in the kush department.

    My Meds are thankfully safe! Those costs have dropped in half!

    #64 3 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    ...and now I'm officially done. I won't buy a NIB pre-launch from ANYONE at this point. Seriously - NONE of these companies have their shit together.

    I realize that this is an anti-Stern thread, but I'm sharing your frustration with DP.

    Damn this pinball obsession!

    #65 3 years ago

    What percent increase are we talking about here? Or $$ increase?

    #66 3 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    This has been a boiling pot for a while now - going back to Transformers with its "roadblock" code issue and the year it took to solve it - then we had ACDC LE with cloudy window and simple code (which thankfully got fixed after about 6 months), X-Men with the worst code ever and multiple design and engineering issues, Metallica with base code and design issues (thankfully fixed)...and on and on...WWE, Kiss, ST, and up through GB. All these games have had problems yet the prices keep going up.
    STLE was my breaking point - when 8 months had passed and the asteroid flashers weren't coded yet, I was told "who cares, regular players don't notice that stuff". That's no excuse for extra features to NOT BE CODED. If you don't want to code the extra features, don't include them!!!! Sold it, don't miss it.
    Even though "I know the drill" by now, I was in on Ghostbusters due to dream theme factor...and as usual - they fucked it up! Horrible, untested design problems, code issues, bugs, and then "Insertgate". Logic dictates that the game sucking should have been enough to cancel my order, but logic isn't our strong suit sometimes....the ghosting inserts was finally the "final straw" that made me get a refund...and now I'm officially done. I won't buy a NIB pre-launch from ANYONE at this point. Seriously - NONE of these companies have their shit together.
    JJP is the closest, at the moment. I have a lot of respect for them for putting a bunch of Dialed Ins out on test locations. They'll be able to learn a lot from that and make the production games way more trouble free than the way Stern does things.

    I think all games start out with a lot of ideas to be great, and then cost cutting gets in the way. This is a great post and so true on GB. They need to test games much much better and they need to listen to the customer.

    #67 3 years ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    FYI for others, by "Hydro", he means Electricity.

    Oh, I thought he was talking about hydroponic pot. Wait... wrong thread.

    #68 3 years ago
    Quoted from Mike_J:

    I won't be buying a new Stern until they get their act together.
    I bailed on my GBLE due to the ghosting issue. Are decals still peeling off heads or is that a thing of the past?

    That was 2 years ago. It's no more.

    #69 3 years ago

    Yikes! Some down votes....Im guessing you dont want the assembly to move out of country?

    Yet, many parts are made there, or even an Alien Pin is OK, and made outside US....?

    23
    #70 3 years ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    Its time, and I hate to say this....maybe they can get some tax incentives, but time to move the factory.
    This Labor is from $3-$6 an hour just across the border, and trucking costs are minimal.

    Don't take this wrong but if you think that moving the factory to another country will make pins cheaper for the buyer you're delusional. The company will just pocket the difference because people are still buying at the prices of today. So by moving the factory to another country we (the U.S.) will be poorer for the fewer jobs available.

    Paying your workers a decent wage should not be thought of as a negative.

    #71 3 years ago

    Reality is they have to pay for the replacement playfield program somehow.

    #72 3 years ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    Yikes! Some down votes....Im guessing you dont want the assembly to move out of country?
    Yet, many parts are made there, or even an Alien Pin is OK, and made outside US....?

    It's because it's politically related I guess. But in all fairness, I wonder how many people would be willing to pay $1500 for an iPhone if it was assembled in the US by union workers making $25/hr vs the Foxconn workers in China making $8/hr.

    #73 3 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Reality is they have to pay for the replacement playfield program somehow.

    That makes sense, seeing as how BM66 was delayed and I was just told the playfield replacement program was delayed too. Maybe they are waiting until they get the cash in for BM66's to help fund the playfield replacement program.

    #74 3 years ago

    Anyone who got the e-mail..... it's worse than a price increase....

    "Please also consider your requirements for early 2017.  Not all of the models will be available in 2017and there will be price increasers.."

    #75 3 years ago

    In both our cases, these are assumptions.

    I would think many of our consumer products have dropped in retail price point due to global production.

    I appreciate the vote of "delusional", when everything else in the market place shows otherwise.

    Sure, Im a Nationalist, and want everything made in the US.

    Im addressing a method that might work with this thread....maintaining profits, without raising prices.

    One method is labor costs.

    Paying workers a decent wage shouldnt be a negative, of course, so Im guessing the price increases are OK
    by you?

    I can respect that position.....or welcome another thought on how to see quality improve, while seeing MSRP drop.

    #76 3 years ago
    Quoted from kpg:

    if it was assembled in the US union workers making $25/hr

    Is there a union involved with Stern? I just assumed there wasn't but I may be wrong.

    It's easy for us when our jobs aren't on the line talking about other's health benefits and liveable wages as detriments to keeping a pin manufacturer in this country. Heighway, Stern, JJP, Spooky and other country's pin makers are providing jobs and livings for their workers. If a company can outsource the manufacturing they are doing it for profit, not for the buyers' benefit.

    As a side note please don't take my comments as hostile. It's just a sincere opinion and I welcome discussion that helps to enlighten my opinion or others.

    #77 3 years ago
    Quoted from PopBumperPete:

    I heard it was possible to enjoy pinball without needing to buy the latest overpriced , undercoded LE

    Stop making preposterous claims D: !!!!

    #78 3 years ago
    Quoted from dmbjunky:

    If a company can outsource the manufacturing they are doing it for profit, not for the buyers' benefit.

    I would hope they are doing it for both...wouldnt you?

    Either better availability, newer innovation, higher quality, or lower price......arent these the demands of a Consumer
    Market?

    #79 3 years ago
    Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

    You know what? You're wrong. They can and they will, maybe...but not from ME.

    Honestly, I'm completely with you in the disgust over the direction Stern has taken. I've been a big supporter of Stern and really want them to continue to succeed. But in the current negative column:

    - Unfinished code (With respect to Markmon, what is finished? However, make the public statement that code is considered complete or an update is in fact planned. It's laughable you have a social media strategy yet can't effectively communicate with your customers. Broken strategy)

    - Quality issues (no need to elaborate. Get some things will need tweaks, but it's getting worse than tweaks. Always had a reputation of standing by product and excellent customer service - first time coming into question.

    - Backlog

    - Disti locking in floor pricing is total BS

    - Pricing is way out of control. But as other posters mentioned, they will keep raising until people in the community show them they've gone to far and stop buying.

    I hate to say it, but nothing will change. And this pisses me off on the pricing - but freakin everyone in the community is to blame.

    People made videos to beg to be a Super Batman 66 "special buyer" for $15k!! Star Wars, which isn't even out yet or any pics leaked, reportedly has waiting lists with distributors for LEs that will likely exceed admittedly their own expected allotment. Don't believe me, call one up!!

    On pricing, as a consumer I'm pissed. And I used to buy NIB games all the time just like Rai posted. No more. But if I'm Stern, I'd do similar. For every badbilly and Rai, there is a (insert name here) who throws money at Stern to be the first to get a NIB LE. To each their own. But when running a business, as long as the register keeps filling up with cash and selling out with backlogs - some customers may be pissed and that stinks, but can't please everyone. Please the ones still paying. Sucks to read but that's the truth.

    Lastly, I encourage Highway, Dutch, Spooky and JJP to consider discussions of a few of them merging. Yes, they each have a nitch play - but coming together to consolidate manufacturing and speed to market would really give Stern a kick in the ass. Right now, it's a pimple on a cheek they squeeze (with no disrespect intended).

    #80 3 years ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    In both our cases, these are assumptions.
    I would think many of our consumer products have dropped in retail price point due to global production.
    I appreciate the vote of "delusional", when everything else in the market place shows otherwise.
    Sure, Im a Nationalist, and want everything made in the US.
    Im addressing a method that might work with this thread....maintaining profits, without raising prices.
    One method is labor costs.
    Paying workers a decent wage shouldnt be a negative, of course, so Im guessing the price increases are OK
    by you?
    I can respect that position.....or welcome another thought on how to see quality improve, while seeing MSRP drop.

    I think the problem isn't the price increase but the quality of the item. Many people have cited QC, code, and late shipment problems as the reason for their discontent. Those don't sound like they are priced out but worried about the value they receive for their money.

    I haven't bought a NIB and I don't like price increases because that reduces the chance I will ever buy a NIB. I do understand nominal price increases in products.

    I also understand some widely bought products are manufactured overseas. I have no quarrel with people who buy those products. For myself, I try to limit my purchases of overseas products but I'm not preaching to others that they should do the same. I try to shop at local markets instead of chain stores. I try to eat at local restaurants rather than franchises. I know the big places do provide a service and employment as well but people that run local businesses I feel have a desire to run that business and as a result make the customer happier.

    I've kind of gotten off topic I think.

    #81 3 years ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    I would hope they are doing it for both...wouldnt you?
    Either better availability, newer innovation, higher quality, or lower price......arent these the demands of a Consumer
    Market?

    So do you think changing the labor force will solve the QC problems and late shipments? I think those are caused by higher up jobs than the assembly workers.

    #82 3 years ago
    Quoted from Msch:

    GAP has them in stock. Cancel your order with your distributor and contact mike

    Although even with Stern price increase, you may get it cheaper from another disti post January. Sad, but factual.

    #83 3 years ago
    Quoted from badbilly27:

    Lastly, I encourage Highway, Dutch, Spooky and JJP to consider discussions of a few of them merging. Yes, they each have a nitch play - but coming together to consolidate manufacturing and speed to market would really give Stern a kick in the ass. Right now, it's a pimple on a cheek they squeeze (with no disrespect intended).

    Billy - did you just finish spending some time in the Cannabis Club?

    #84 3 years ago

    Can anyone find out if this is going to affect already released pins? Want to get gb premium in the spring.

    #85 3 years ago
    Quoted from dmbjunky:

    So do you think changing the labor force will solve the QC problems and late shipments? I think those are caused by higher up jobs than the assembly workers.

    Some of them....especially after the tour at Expo.

    If you have more eyes, perhaps those flaws that occur can be caught before shipping.

    In LEDs, the MSRP was $1.59, before PBB, PBL, and myself, brought them to $.59-$.89 cents.
    To fix QC issues, I agreed to pay $.01 cent more, per bulb, for a final inspection before packing and shipping.
    I cant say which company my rejects went to in the US market.

    In my other business, I went from NY manufacturing among friends, to Merida, Mexico, Thailand and China.
    I fixed late shipments, Quality Control, and lowered Consumer Prices, while increasing profit margins.

    I think this is what most of US companies that have consumer merchandise have done in the last 20 years.

    In regard to Stern, QC issues, may often be within a normal range, but social media magnifies it.
    This discussion, in anything Pinball, is communicated ad nausem, among vendors......seriously.

    Its just people, and mistakes happen, while consumers expect and demand perfection.

    If its Code....they need more programmers, right?
    If its lower cost, yet higher quality, Id love for this thread to have us help all of us with ideas on how to achieve,

    The thread is titled "TELL THEM NO".

    Im not sure if just bitching will fix this, or simply not buying...especially if sales still stay strong to a different
    income demographic....will change this.

    We have some mighty fine talented people here...what if one of the toys that a Pinsider has made, designed and tested,
    were to be used? Wouldnt that save costs?
    How about Artwork? Coding maybe. Some of the Mods made are better than original toys....
    As a community, we can contribute, if a business would like us.

    Maybe we could vote for less complex games to keep the price down, and Stern has heard this and made the New Home
    Spiderman.

    Ultimately, I was doing nothing more than expressing my opinion after 45 years in manufacturing on how to avoid a price increase, and improve QC, etc.

    Perhaps, its best, I just let this roll, and let you guys get back to complaining, and sharing, "No"

    No worries...

    #86 3 years ago

    This boycott is really hurting stern. They've had to layoff quite a few folks and they may need to let go of some senior staff. This could include our favorite coder and designer since they likely draw a bigger paycheck! Despite a few challenges here and there, stern has provided us years of enjoyment and some all-time classic games. Ive seen the pinball community do some amazing things when one of ours needs a hand... I think this is one of those times.

    Please join your generous pinhead brothers and sisters who've already done their part to say thank you to stern to the tune of $17,350. Let's keep stern pinball great for the next 40 years.

    A kickstarter page has been started where ........

    Please pin this post since......

    Wake me when we're rallying the mob for the cause outlined above.

    #87 3 years ago
    Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

    Billy - did you just finish spending some time in the Cannabis Club?

    I just started reading that thread last night. Learning a lot. But, not a member.

    #88 3 years ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    Its time, and I hate to say this....maybe they can get some tax incentives, but time to move the factory. This Labor is from $3-$6 an hour just across the border, and trucking costs are minimal.
    It is a way to get full featured Pros back with profit at $3995 and top of the line at $5995.
    Homeowners and collectors would benefit.....

    I'd rather pay higher prices for pinball games if it truly is necessary to keep their assembly in the US.

    Even though I relocate 'em on my games, I appreciate what those Stern "Made in the USA" stickers represent!

    #89 3 years ago
    Quoted from TKDalumni:

    What percent increase are we talking about here? Or $$ increase?

    Love quoting myself...anyone know? If it's $100-$200 are you guys still boycotting? Time to riot w/o knowing facts? Just curious...

    #90 3 years ago

    Do you think all the Chinese people on the assembly line working for Stern may have demanded a pay increase.

    #91 3 years ago

    Jody Dankberg lists Spanish as a language on his resume. Clearly he has an inflated sense of "good enough." If you have seen those factory tour videos...yikes.

    Jody probably thinks that Stern's efforts are "good enough."

    #92 3 years ago
    Quoted from Tuna_Delight:

    I'd rather pay higher prices for pinball games if it truly is necessary to keep their assembly in the US.
    Even though I relocate 'em on my games, I appreciate what those Stern "Made in the USA" stickers represent!

    No problem to respect this as a counter to my position.

    Quoted from pinbum:

    Do you think all the Chinese people on the assembly line working for Stern may have demanded a pay increase.

    Yes. As an example the factory making the LEDs in your new Stern, is the same as I used and others.
    While, the standard example is to "Negotiate, tougher deals.....lower prices, minimal profit"...
    I am well aware of the complaints of the labor and the factory complaining of higher quotas, no pay increases,
    and a degree of "revenge" with letting quality slip.

    Either we pay more, or we pay the same and get less. Otherwise, one needs to cut costs to stay in business, and maintain margins. Increase volume, and therefore gross profit is true, but most pin manufacturers forecast a finite market
    for this product....hence the home pin attempt again...profit and customer base market expansion.

    #93 3 years ago

    Yrs we have GB premiums and pros in stock. Just got some last week.

    #94 3 years ago
    Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

    Yikes! Some down votes....Im guessing you dont want the assembly to move out of country?
    Yet, many parts are made there, or even an Alien Pin is OK, and made outside US....?

    Don't sweat the down votes. They just mean not agreeing with your posting.

    Now, as far as your $3-$6/ hour labor; There soon coud be a 30% tariff/excise tax on goods made in certain low labor cost countries. That wil bring assembly back to the USA. The car/truck and semitrailer manufacturers with plants in Mexico are watching this carefully. Think about a plant that pays workers $20-$25/day, gives two hot meals/shift and provides subsidized housing. They sell their vehicle to a US buyer for $4k less than a US plant can due to labor cost differences, Eliminate that gap and maybe penalize it and the jobs will come back to the USA.

    #95 3 years ago

    with everyone not buying I'm super happy, i'll get mine quicker!

    Neil.

    #96 3 years ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    Don't sweat the down votes. They just mean not agreeing with your posting.
    Now, as far as your $3-$6/ hour labor; There soon coud be a 30% tariff/excise tax on goods made in certain low labor cost countries. That wil bring assembly back to the USA. The car/truck and semitrailer manufacturers with plants in Mexico are watching this carefully. Think about a plant that pays workers $20-$25/day, gives two hot meals/shift and provides subsidized housing. They sell their vehicle to a US buyer for $4k less than a US plant can due to labor cost differences, Eliminate that gap and maybe penalize it and the jobs will come back to the USA.

    Oh, I agree...Never was a fan of NAFTA.

    The problem we will likely face with rearranging trade deals or Tariffs, is (in a short comment, as it gets political), is hyper
    inflation here.

    Im not sure how the public in the US will react.

    #97 3 years ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    Don't sweat the down votes. They just mean not agreeing with your posting.
    Now, as far as your $3-$6/ hour labor; There soon coud be a 30% tariff/excise tax on goods made in certain low labor cost countries. That wil bring assembly back to the USA. The car/truck and semitrailer manufacturers with plants in Mexico are watching this carefully. Think about a plant that pays workers $20-$25/day, gives two hot meals/shift and provides subsidized housing. They sell their vehicle to a US buyer for $4k less than a US plant can due to labor cost differences, Eliminate that gap and maybe penalize it and the jobs will come back to the USA.

    The jobs will come back with the 30% tariff in the price! Never been a success to do this. Or maybe not, given the cost to cover the tariff will be less than the cost to setup in the US...

    #98 3 years ago

    I've been done with Stern since TSPP, the last great game they will ever make. IMHO.......

    John P. Dayhuff
    Battle Creek, MI.
    269-979-3836

    #99 3 years ago

    While I tend to agree I doubt I could pass up Tron VE.

    #100 3 years ago

    Have a great day.

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