(Topic ID: 175720)

Stern announces another price increase- TELL THEM NO!


By shacklersrevenge

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 804 posts
  • 223 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by JY64
  • Topic is favorited by 12 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic poll

    “Will you continue to buy NEW Stern games?”

    • No 510 votes
      75%
    • Yes 85 votes
      12%
    • unsure 87 votes
      13%

    (682 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 37 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    aerosmith-topper-concept1 (resized).jpg
    20161223_112227 (resized).jpg
    20161223_104858 (resized).jpg
    20161223_104905 (resized).jpg
    00image-7 (resized).jpg
    000image-8 (resized).jpg
    20161228_163457 (resized).jpg
    image (resized).jpeg
    Sabers (resized).jpg
    darth (resized).jpg
    pulp-fiction-pulp-fiction-13185677-1920-810 (resized).jpg
    mark-hamill-star-wars-the-force-awakens-png (resized).jpg
    SeaRaider (resized).jpg
    338033145f188f99b6ac6def558ea45bc62dc68b (resized).jpg
    mmrow (resized).jpg
    139rxc (resized).jpg

    There are 804 posts in this topic. You are on page 12 of 17.
    #551 2 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Confirmed by JJ at Gex. Floor is being raised across the board, including dealer stock

    I dont see how thats gonna work with older titles that arent selling like WWE. Distibutors dont have unlimited warehouse space, when things dont sell the price has to come down.

    #552 2 years ago
    Quoted from taylor34:

    IT'S STAR WARS!!!! MUST HAVE NOW!!!!

    Glad I don't see it that way. Another 40 year old theme that's run it's course.

    #553 2 years ago

    There have been four SW pins so far.. three crummy games and one decent effort (DE SW, helped by code update).

    SW episode 1 was based on spiffy new technology and should have been awesome. It was instead a piece of sh*t.

    I'm not exactly waiting with baited breath for the 2017 effort.

    #554 2 years ago
    Quoted from docquest:

    I dont see how thats gonna work with older titles that arent selling like WWE. Distibutors dont have unlimited warehouse space, when things dont sell the price has to come down.

    If they cut the price of WWE by 2/3 I'd pick one up and beat on it for a while

    10
    #555 2 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Confirmed by JJ at Gex. Floor is being raised across the board, including dealer stock

    more reason to just say NO!

    #556 2 years ago
    Quoted from smokedog:

    I'm pretty sure I know how much I paid for every machine I've purchased.

    So what you paid for one machine four years ago dictates what the actual market value of said machine was four years ago?

    Bizarre response.

    #557 2 years ago
    Quoted from docquest:

    I dont see how thats gonna work with older titles that arent selling like WWE. Distibutors dont have unlimited warehouse space, when things dont sell the price has to come down.

    Presumably the dealership agreement has clauses for what is considered dealer stock and what isn't and perhaps once a game goes out of production or X months after dealer purchase pass the item can be treated however the dealer wants subject to warranty requirements.

    #558 2 years ago

    So price increases are rolling out with Aerosmith?
    That's a disaster waiting to happen.

    #559 2 years ago
    Quoted from taylor34:

    I'll believe this thread when I actually see it happen. Stern has:
    taken a game from 2007, added $3k to the price it was selling for back then, and people still bought it
    took full featured games and start selling them for $2k more (premiums)
    taken years to finish the code on almost every game
    had quality and cheapening issues
    Yet people just line up to buy over and over. People say they're not going to buy anymore but tons of people in this thread have Ghostbusters when all of these issues have been going on for 5+ years. I don't believe that people aren't going to keep buying when Star Wars comes out...unfinished code, high priced, more cost cutting, etc won't matter, IT'S STAR WARS!!!! MUST HAVE NOW!!!!

    It's true!
    I have bought 3 NIB Stern but I really don't believe I will buy another. QC down, prices up, just doesn't give me that 'gotta have it' feeling anymore.
    Will still buy Stern but nice HUO at 20 - 30% lower than the NIB price.

    #560 2 years ago
    Quoted from Shapeshifter:

    Will still buy Stern but nice HUO at 20 - 30% lower than the NIB price.

    Good luck with that.

    #561 2 years ago

    This is sad... it means seeing new titles at TPF'2017 (pinball shows) is going to be a challenge. Even more so as this pricing continues.

    17
    #562 2 years ago

    I'm done. I have been cycling out a game for a NIB game every 12 months for the last three years. Before that I have purchased 5 NIB games between 2006 to 2013. Small potatos to some but definately a pattern and a steady customer. 5000 was my cap. I was ready to pull the string on GB and the issues caused me to wait. During my waiting, I realized I can live without another NIB purchase and will enjoy the three games I have. This with Satr Wars and Iron Maiden being must have themes but no more. Gary et al., you overplayed your hand.

    #563 2 years ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    This is sad... it means seeing new titles at TPF'2017 (pinball shows) is going to be a challenge. Even more so as this pricing continues.

    Just so I understand the point you are making: it will be a bigger challenge because the local distributors that normally bring the games will be less inclined to bring and unbox them at the shows since they will cost more and are become a higher dollar item?

    #564 2 years ago
    Quoted from taylor34:

    People say they're not going to buy anymore but tons of people in this thread have Ghostbusters when all of these issues have been going on for 5+ years. I don't believe that people aren't going to keep buying when Star Wars comes out...unfinished code, high priced, more cost cutting, etc won't matter, IT'S STAR WARS!!!! MUST HAVE NOW!!!!

    GB was one of my all time dream themes, and even though it was tough, I cancelled my order and got a refund. If I can do it, SW fans can resist. Thankfully, I give zero fucks about SW, so for me it won't be an issue. I'd pass even if it was a great game.

    #565 2 years ago

    If my GB playfield gets replaced I would consider Stern for abother dream theme pin but for now I am eyeing spookys next game.

    #566 2 years ago

    Quality issues I cancelled my GB order as well. Now not interested at all. Will buy used.

    #567 2 years ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    So what you paid for one machine four years ago dictates what the actual market value of said machine was four years ago?
    Bizarre response.

    Not at all. Market is different in different geographic regions, no?

    Where I am located, a players TAF was $3k 4 years ago. It is now $6K for a players TAF. If you can find one.

    Sorry for adding my 2 cents. I'll bow out now.

    #568 2 years ago
    Quoted from smokedog:

    Where I am located, a players TAF was $3k 4 years ago. It is now $6K for a players TAF. If you can find one.

    Your numbers you are using are all in US dollars right?

    #569 2 years ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Your numbers you are using are all in US dollars right?

    Four years ago our dollar was at par. It's dropped 25% since then vs USD.

    The point I was making was that the used market has increased as much if not more than NIB.

    Disclaimer: At least where I am located. Apparently someone else's experience and geographic region sets market price.

    #570 2 years ago
    Quoted from smokedog:

    The point I was making was that the used market has increased as much if not more than NIB.

    I agree. It's even more extreme with the pre dmd solid states. Several games have just blasted off like Fathom and doubled in price.

    #571 2 years ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    I agree. It's even more extreme with the pre dmd solid states. Several games have just blasted off like Fathom and doubled in price.

    As people get priced out of the latest and greatest they more than likely look around and stumble across greats from the past. As NIB prices continue to rise, unfortunately so will older titles from all previous eras.

    #572 2 years ago
    Quoted from J85M:

    As people get priced out of the latest and greatest they more than likely look around and stumble across greats from the past. As NIB prices continue to rise, unfortunately so will older titles from all previous eras.

    So what happens when NIB prices crash?

    I can't wait.

    #573 2 years ago
    Quoted from Astropin:

    So what happens when NIB prices crash?
    I can't wait.

    Sadly I think that will result in a wipe out of the manufacturers (most of them anyway), none of us know what Stern's margins might be but I'm guessing they are not as high as many may feel they are (at least on pro models). Would Stern stay around if they had to make pros for $1,000 less retail?

    #574 2 years ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Sadly I think that will result in a wipe out of the manufacturers (most of them anyway), none of us know what Stern's margins might be but I'm guessing they are not as high as many may feel they are (at least on pro models). Would Stern stay around if they had to make pros for $1,000 less retail?

    If Stern makes on average, $500 per machine, they make say 15,000 machines per year, that's $7,500,000 in profit.

    One would think that Stern is debt free. It's not like they have a fleet of trucks and heavy machinery. It's all hand built.

    The next down cycle, they should be able to ride it through unscathed.

    #575 2 years ago
    Quoted from Trekkie1978:

    The next down cycle, they should be able to ride it through unscathed.

    I'm pretty sure that's their operating mission at present, make hay while the sun shines so they are prepared for the next lean period

    Winter is coming.....

    #576 2 years ago
    Quoted from Esoteric_rt:

    I'm pretty sure that's their operating mission at present, make hay while the sun shines so they are prepared for the next lean period
    Winter is coming.....

    I think them pumping up the books for a sale makes more sense...

    #577 2 years ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Stern now mandates the floor the dealers can sell for and mandate that no add ons like a free shaker motor can be used as incentives (the floor is still below MSRP, so your point is not entirely incorrect but presumably the minimum sale price floor goes up with the MSRP increase).

    How is this not resale price maintenance as a form of vertical price fixing? We have a provision for this in Australia which specifically prohibits this under our domestic Competition and Consumer Act, surely there must be a comparable provision under US legislation? The entire rationale behind having an MSRP is as per the acronym that the supplier can only SUGGEST a selling price to the seller, not mandate one.

    It is one thing for a manufacturer to raise wholesale buy prices for distributors across the board and then say take it or leave it on selling prices, it is an entirely different matter to dictate to all distributors that they must sell at or above a minimum floor price on both their current and existing stock.

    Either way, I know from personal experience in the past in buying NIB Stern from overseas distributors, that what they say out in public regarding prices (MAP) and what they do with the privity of a business transaction are very often two different things.

    #578 2 years ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Sadly I think that will result in a wipe out of the manufacturers (most of them anyway), none of us know what Stern's margins might be but I'm guessing they are not as high as many may feel they are (at least on pro models). Would Stern stay around if they had to make pros for $1,000 less retail?

    In a market downturn (i.e., supply >> demand), competitors typically have to compete on price. Price wars often break out, leading to a "race to the bottom." That's why, during market downturns, players with large economies of scale tend to be best positioned to weather the storm.

    #579 2 years ago

    Stern isn't going anywhere. They are the only company equipped to deal with the lean times - they've done it before.

    If stern goes under the entire industry has gone under and there are no more new pinball machines.

    #580 2 years ago

    Stern are not the be all and end all of pinball in the new century. They are a sentimental leftover from the golden days of pinball and the reason why a lot of buyers feel what is a virtuous but in my view misguided emotional attachment to their survival.

    The problem being is that Stern is no longer the same company that existed primarily as a manufacturer of pinball machines. Quality of end product and customer satisfaction are no longer their main goals, it is return on investment for their primary backer Hagerty Peterson. Game designers can make press release videos going on about how much they put into a machine, but at the end of the day the bean counters are having the final say from what goes into a machine, to the type of glue being used for playfield inserts to how much effort (labour as monetary financial outlay) is spent on code to be classified as sufficient upon game release.

    The only way Stern is going to disappear is if Hagerty Peterson stop seeing increasing returns on their investment and withdraw their capital.

    In other words, NIB prices are only going to lower at Stern when hell freezes over.

    #581 2 years ago

    Americans bicker about prices, what about us poor euros who gets the proper shafting? You all know it by now, import taxes yada yada and so on.

    I'm nowhere near able to buy a toy for ~$8000 but I never even would if I could. There is NOTHING that can motivate these prices on a machine except for the number of employees and their wages. Because let's face it, the things that make up a pinball machines, some wood and electronics, is cheap. Especially with todays super cheap processing power.

    All it takes is one pinball maker who dares to charge 3-4000 for a decent NIB machine, and Stern goes bye bye.

    The market has shifted towards private players and collectors. I don't know how large share of the sold Stern games are going to an operator but it can't be much, at least not here in Europe. Would an operator get his money back on a pinball machine? What's the expected return on investment on a machine? Sorry...getting a bit off topic now.

    #582 2 years ago
    Quoted from PinballCompany:

    2010 - iPhone 4 32GB $299
    2016 - iPhone 7 32GB $649

    Complete and utter BS! You cannot compare the price with 2 year contract to MRSP without contract.

    Reality is:

    2010 - iPhone 4 32GB $749 ( https://www.lifewire.com/cost-of-an-iphone-4-579993 or http://aaplinvestors.net/stats/iphone/pricing/ )
    2016 - iPhone 7 32GB $649 ( http://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-7/4.7-inch-display-32gb-black#00,20,31,40,60 )

    So what is your point? That it is a known fact that technology gets cheaper and cheaper over time (e.g. TVs, BluRay players - my first VHS VCR cost almost 3.000DM = 2.000USD back in the day, I can get a BR-player for 50USD these days) except if it comes from Stern or Samsung? Agreed.

    People really have to stop constantly making up stuff just because they don't like Apple (or love Stern to much ).

    #583 2 years ago
    Quoted from kvan99:

    Btw, Blackknight there is no way Stern's cost on a premium is that high. On a few occasions other pinsiders have enumerated the cost breakdown...IIRC the Pro came to $1200-1500 bucks. The Premium should have what, about $200 Dollars worth of bling over the Pro. I don't even think the BM66 SLE cost them $4500 to make.

    Construction labor kicks production costs in the pants on pinball machines, always.
    People underestimate these costs all the time in this industry.
    An average time of construction of a machine from a playfield blank is 72 hours (3 days).
    Offset labor costs alone is well over $1500-2000 (dependent on title complexity and experience on staff), not counting any materials, pre assemblies of any parts which is separately calculated, testing and quality control, or tagged license fees (if applicable).
    Additionally, this still does not consider any cost overheads, rejected parts, or market advertising either.
    People generally take the easiest path when calculating costs but overlook areas that impact the costs beyond things such as materials.
    There are many similarities between pinball production and other areas of industrial manufacturing, but are done at a smaller scale.
    The only reason that people compare modern electronics to pinball machines, is that what consumers have a certain comfortability in trying to rationalize and describe, but it simply not the case here, as the production standards are completely different.

    Stern has tried to move pinball into the "modern world" with electronics, but there is only so far you can take it since it is still a physical game. There still are also "accepted standards" of what a pinball is supposed to look like, even though some parts have very little practical value.
    That is why pinball remains everlasting and eternal, why EM pinball machines are still fun after over 50 years, and why it cannot be replaced with other forms of entertainment.

    #584 2 years ago

    It should be easy enough to tell them no with Aerosmith but SW will sell huge if its based on the original trilogy regardless of the price hike.

    18
    #585 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    The stern/Dutch screen is a much better size for pinball and the game won't look stupid when it's turned off.

    I don't buy this argument at all, though I've heard it repeated over and over. Don't you have a television? Do you worry about what it looks like when it's turned off? What about your iPad? Your phone? What about arcade games, I've never once heard anyone fret about what the screen looks when turned off. Weird argument.

    -7
    #586 2 years ago
    Quoted from Russell:

    I don't buy this argument at all, though I've heard it repeated over and over. Don't you have a television? Do you worry about what it looks like when it's turned off? What about your iPad? Your phone? What about arcade games, I've never once heard anyone fret about what the screen looks when turned off. Weird argument.

    A pinball machine isn't a tv or a phone.

    Weird that you don't know that.

    #587 2 years ago
    Quoted from Esoteric_rt:

    Winter is coming.....

    Winter isn't coming. That's just Stern screwing with the thermostat. Eventually enough of us will open the window and realize it's a beautiful day.

    #588 2 years ago
    Quoted from Trekkie1978:

    If Stern makes on average, $500 per machine, they make say 15,000 machines per year, that's $7,500,000 in profit.
    One would think that Stern is debt free. It's not like they have a fleet of trucks and heavy machinery. It's all hand built.
    The next down cycle, they should be able to ride it through unscathed.

    Why would you think Stern is debt free when they just enlarged there plant

    #589 2 years ago
    Quoted from Russell:

    I don't buy this argument at all, though I've heard it repeated over and over. Don't you have a television? Do you worry about what it looks like when it's turned off? What about your iPad? Your phone? What about arcade games, I've never once heard anyone fret about what the screen looks when turned off. Weird argument.

    If tv's had a image on the screen when off for 70 yr then people may not like the blank screen of today

    #590 2 years ago
    Quoted from JY64:

    If tv's had a image on the screen when off for 70 yr then people may not like the blank screen of today

    This thread has been beyond stupid for a week but I think it's finally reached the point of draining.

    Seeya

    #591 2 years ago
    Quoted from JY64:

    Why would you think Stern is debt free when they just enlarged there plant

    From what i read, they are renting space.

    #592 2 years ago

    Up until just a few short years ago, pinball was struggling to survive.

    The revival in the 90s lasted about 10 years thankful partially to a resurgence of games on route and several manufacturers making machines. One of the biggest booms in pinball ever during the 70s lasted about the same.

    It would be highly optimistic to think the boom of the last few years will outlast any of those.

    #593 2 years ago

    wow, i hadn't visited this thread in a week, now it looks like if anything it's gaining momentum. i agree that over the next 12-18 months the marketplace will thin down.

    i predict that it'll go from Stern-JJP-Heighway-Spooky-Homepin-Dutch-Chicago+/-American, P3, others .......
    ....to.....
    Stern-plus-2

    #594 2 years ago
    Quoted from cooldan:

    wow, i hadn't visited this thread in a week, now it looks like if anything it's gaining momentum. i agree that over the next 12-18 months the marketplace will thin down.
    i predict that it'll go from Stern-JJP-Heighway-Spooky-Homepin-Dutch-Chicago+/-American, P3, others .......
    ....to.....
    Stern-plus-2

    I think with both JJP and Highway you still can't tell if there will be a next game and if so just how far down the rd it will be

    17
    #595 2 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    This thread has been beyond stupid for a week but I think it's finally reached the point of draining.
    Seeya

    Thanks for letting us know your limits. It makes the thread less stupid.

    #596 2 years ago
    Quoted from DaveH:

    Thanks for letting us know your limits. It makes the thread less stupid.

    I literally laughed out loud!

    #597 2 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

    Up until just a few short years ago, pinball was struggling to survive.
    The revival in the 90s lasted about 10 years thankful partially to a resurgence of games on route and several manufacturers making machines. One of the biggest booms in pinball ever during the 70s lasted about the same.
    It would be highly optimistic to think the boom of the last few years will outlast any of those.

    Looks like the recent NIB boom is about to slow way down sometime in 2017?

    Not enough $$ floating around in pinball to support all these thousands of $8k plus pins hitting the market next year.

    Maybe I'm wrong, who knows, but I'm trying to get myself under control!

    #598 2 years ago

    Eventually there's no where to put them all too.

    #599 2 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Looks like the recent NIB boom is about to slow way down sometime in 2017?
    Not enough $$ floating around in pinball to support all these thousands of $8k plus pins hitting the market next year.
    Maybe I'm wrong, who knows, but I'm trying to get myself under control!

    That was said last year. Highway ship ? JJP 1 game Stern only had 1 new game in 2016 Dutch well

    #600 2 years ago
    Quoted from iceman44:

    Looks like the recent NIB boom is about to slow way down sometime in 2017?

    I think we have another year or two of the pin boom. Pinball will have a bigger problem when there is an economic crisis in the US and thus far it looks like 2017 will be a pretty good year (granted that can change quickly).

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 214.99
    From: $ 7,500.00
    Pinball Machine
    Operation Pinball
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    From: $ 175.00
    Gameroom - Decorations
    Pinball Photos
    $ 17.95
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ULEKstore
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 7,299.00
    Pinball Machine
    Classic Game Rooms
    $ 5,799.00
    Pinball Machine
    Operation Pinball
    $ 78.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    From: $ 220.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    CzTV Mods
    $ 45.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    The MOD Couple
    $ 35.00
    Cabinet - Decals
    Pinball Haus
    € 279.00
    From: $ 5,799.00
    Pinball Machine
    Music City Pinball
    From: $ 175.00
    Gameroom - Decorations
    Pinball Photos
    $ 149.99
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 125.00
    Cabinet - Toppers
    Sparky Pinball
    $ 95.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    $ 35.00
    $ 7,599.00
    Pinball Machine
    Great American Pinball
    $ 86.95
    Cabinet - Shooter Rods
    Super Skill Shot Shop
    From: $ 149.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Sparky Pinball
    $ 159.99
    Lighting - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 35.00
    Cabinet - Decals
    Pinball Haus
    There are 804 posts in this topic. You are on page 12 of 17.

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside