Yeah, in the "what music pin next" thread, I mentioned that a "Monsters of Rock" arena tour theme would be awesome because you could have a lineup for the game that covers a number of bands and players could load their own tunes via USB to change the lineup.

But licensing for more than one band per pin is probably cost prohibitive.

Mu favorite post was when someone said that Aerosmith was the code name for the Star Wars pin. THAT would be hilarious (and a relief).

Really? They have to be second-guessing that decision while staring at the piles of WWE unsold stock. Is that the only LE that never came close to selling out?

Haha. Took my son on this when he was 6 and it turned him off coasters for life. As soon as we launched, I knew it was a mistake.

Is that the South American cover band?

So wrong, and yet painfully true.

They were almost right. Stern was very, very close to dead not that many years after LotR. It's been an impressive comeback for Stern, but RGP wasn't on the wrong track way back then.

Wikipedia says Scorpions sold over 100 million, but I don't see them on that list. Maybe because it's a list of US sales only, which makes it kind of worthless? MTV says 22 million records.

Other notables:
Led Zeppelin 111.5 million
Pink Floyd 75 Million
Queen 34.5 Million

I'd probably buy a Zep, Pink Floyd, Queen, or Scorps pin, but Zep will never happen. Too much licensing cost.

Found a list with worldwide ALBUM ONLY sales instead of US only sales of albums and singles (which is more what you'd want for deciding on a pin theme that would be sold worldwide).

3 - Pink Floyd = 193.700.000 (02/2008)
5 - Elvis Presley = 187.000.000 - ALREADY DONE
7 - Queen = 170.100.000 (09/2008)
8 - Rolling Stones = 169.100.000 - ALREADY DONE
10 - Led Zeppelin = 165.500.000 (01/2008)
17 - AC/DC = 133.700.000 (11/2007) - ALREADY DONE
28 - Aerosmith = 113.500.000 (11/2007)
29 - Bon Jovi = 107.200.000 (12/2007)
34 - Metallica - 102.500.000 (01/2008) - ALREADY DONE
35 - Prince = 99.900.000 (02/2008)
37 - David Bowie = 95.700.000 (12/2007)
38 - Van Halen = 94.000.000 (02/2008)
39 - Guns N' Roses = 93.200.000 (12/2007) - ALREADY DONE
57 - Nirvana = 69.400.000 (02/2008)
60 - The Who = 66.200.000 (11/2008)
67 - Def Leppard = 62.500.000 (12/2007)
69 - Meat Loaf = 61.500.000 (01/2008)
70 - Deep Purple = 61.400.000 (11/2008)
72 - Iron Maiden = 59.700.000 (02/2008)
84 - Kiss = 54.500.000 (11/2008) - ALREADY DONE
91 - Black Sabbath = 48.400.000 (11/2008)
95 - Ozzy Osbourne = 46.700.000 (11/2008)
97 - Scorpions = 44.900.000 (11/2008)

I'm not saying it was done well, but it was done. The Elvis we got was super-corny. Guns n Roses was also a pretty mediocre effort. They deserve better.

If you take out all the acts that wouldn't translate well to pinball, Iron Maiden is easily in the top 20, based on worldwide album sales alone (not singles, videos, touring, which I think would boost them higher).

If the rumors are right, you have a year or less. Supposedly IM is already in the works, sometime after Star Wars.

The coin slots will be Chad's nose, upside down.

Given that they're re-theming Tower of Terror as Guardian's of the Galaxy and it's literally right next to Rockin' Rollercoaster, I doubt they're re-theme it to GotG, too.

I only really heard Iron Maiden strongly the past year or so, from enough places that I believe it.

That quote is from 2015, so you have to realize that everything else on the 2008 list I quoted from sold more, too. They're probably in roughly the same area.

Yeah, it was announced about a month ago after being rumored for like a year:

http://www.laughingplace.com/w/news/2016/07/23/its-official-dcas-tower-of-terror-to-get-guardians-of-the-galaxy-makeover/

Classic Maiden art has a very specific style. I really hope that DD isn't doing the art or not doing it in his usual style because I'm really looking forward to buying one of these and DD art could be a dealbreaker on a Maiden pin.

Like someone else said, this confirmation of DD doing Aerosmith at least means the Iron Maiden pin maybe, might, possibly have Derek Riggs for the art. Fingers crossed.

If the band is into the pin and wants the best result that solves that. Stern just has to play mediator and try to get both the band and him on board with the idea. Doesn't Riggs own the character of Eddie, anyway?

Dunno how it would sell, but it could have a CRAZY good amount of thematic material to work with. Guillotines, Frankenstein, weird ball-eating/spitting monsters, levitations. I'm not a HUGE fan, but I could see myself buying it.

Given that we've seen most of the machine, including the cabinet and playfield, in his art book, there's not much mystery left.

Is that Lonnie complete, or actual complete?

Here you go, why wait?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-aerosmith-pinball/page/12#post-3398787

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-aerosmith-pinball/page/12#post-3398829

I think they should have upped the game a bit and made the legs clawfoot style with Steven Tyler's messed up toes.

steven-tyler-feet-close (resized).jpg

I dunno. The screen in the pictures in the DD art book looked like they just took live action music videos and ran them through a "cartoon-ize video" filter. If that's what they're really doing, it will be a huge fail.

WOZ is good *exactly* because it's different and done well. If you're not a fan of stop and go games, I can understand the dislike, but for a collection, WOZ is a perfect antidote to "sameness".

Well on that point we agree. I'm okay with TOTO because it's pretty quick, but the other one gets old real fast. I could have done without that one.

Mozart or Bach would really mess up that graph.

Turn them all the way down (they ARE adjustable) and they're way less greedy than KISS or GB, so that problem is a non-issue.

Van Halen could be fun. Band fight multiball and they could have a meter like the PKE one in GB for Eddie's ego.

That is a neat trick. How do you do that?

I have been waffling on that machine for like 5 years myself! Love playing it at shows, but I think it might be too shallow for home.

KISS does ridiculously well at *some* bars, from what I've seen. I think Aerosmith will probably be the same. In the right bar it will do all right.

TILT could be a picture of Gary Cherone.

Some old rock guy autobiographies ARE others fantasy novels.

(Un?)Surprisingly, from what I've seen it's the redneck bars where KISS does NOT do well.

We agree. I was just posting because someone posted a pic of a redneck bar where KISS would do well, and I was saying, no, that's not my experience.

Seconded! Since they're making more Metallica machines now with a renewed license, this is a no-brainer.

Ha ha! How much is "very few" WWE? 100? 200? It bet it's more than Metallica, and unlike Metallica, there's no WWE demand in sight! I predict "very few" WWE next year, too, unless they chop the price in half to blow them out.

Bash toy, yes. Layout? No. Almost identical to KISS, not that close to Metallica at all.

Nope. Closer to KISS than Indy.

Or worse, the Wheel of Fortune treatment.

It will be interesting to see how the market at large reacts. Seems like a lot are sitting this one out for a lot of different, and valid, reasons.

Yeah, but the ball times would be ridiculous.

JJPs first machine ever vs Stern who have been doing this for decades. Also, JJP has blown away anything Stern has ever done (or will do?) with code updates on WoZ. Above and beyond.

Yeah, Hobbit is pretty underwhelming, and both Hobbit and WoZ currently have problems related to the new Ubuntu they went to. Hobbit has really annoying popping sound that starts after it's been played a while that gets worse over time, and any flavor of WoZ 6.xx has lockups that happen within about 24-48 hours if it's left on. Both are being worked on, but they've been this way for many months.

Even if you can change them (probably can), you still have them on the inserts on the playfield, unlike KISS or AC/DC, etc.

I dunno. I am NOT a KISS fan, but I like the machine, and some of the songs have grown on me. It can happen.

As toppers go, it's pretty crappy compared to others released in that price range.

No and No.

If you want those (topper seems underwhelming for the dough) get a Premium and use the money you save to buy those and some lollipop rails, and still have $600 left vs a LE. LE is generally a waste of money (with few exceptions).

Even if I was interested, that Jester voice sparky-rehash completely turned me off, especially with how much he's chatting. I'm sure that production choice has blown quite a few sales of Aerosmith.

Very KISS-y. Very.

Yes, that's a plus, but the play is VERY KISS-like.

We'll see about that. For one, the upper playfield does not seem awesome at all. Seems dumb in the livestream.

Seems like quite a few are sitting this one out, hence the lack of excitement for the stream.

I'd be really excited if he was wearing a pepsi t-shirt and a Pepsiman pin was on the way. Insta-buy for me.

Word. The band animations are especially low-rent. They've had a lot of time to work on this, too, so that's pretty depressing.

No, no it's not. There are so many rough edges and unfinished things (including missing animations and inserts that do nothing), it's completely distracting to play WoF. Also, the VOICES are TERRIBLE. I'm no fan of Sparky2 aka Jester in Aerosmith, but it destroys the bargain barrel WoF voices.

Finished, and with those awful voices redone straight instead of failing at funny, it could have been something special.

That's exactly why I got it, but in the state Stern abandoned it, I couldn't live with it.

It will be very interesting to see how Aerosmith does. Seems like the PF drama from all of 2016 and the almost code-free Batman launch combined with a polarizing band have put the kibosh on interest.

The interest around the livestream was the lowest I've seen for one of those since I've been here. Very few were talking about it when it was happening. I mean, I don't think it will be WWE level bad, but Stern has to be concerned about the presales.

Wrong screen, for one.

I share your dream. I want an Iron Maiden pin even more than Star Wars.

Most people that are even buying one (rather than boycotting because of the code problems with Stern titles) are getting a Pro. The LE extra playfield is simple to the point of retarded. Why bother with it? Seems like most people getting an Aerosmith are skipping the LE.

Hmm, sounds just like KISS. Go figure.

On KISS you have to close up the right outlane or you're losing balls like this all the time, too. Given that this is a very similar layout, probably the same solution - close up the right outlane.

Sounds like jester voice is almost the same, maybe just a little less pitch shifted. Is this the "new" jester audio?

It should be called a "ripoff." I'm sure Cliff's getting zero out of his idea from them.

What games had them before he made them for pinball machines? I can't think of any.

All of that PLUS it has the unfortunate placement of being the pin before Star Wars, and I'm sure plenty of people are waiting to see if the 4th (6th if you count international) time's the charm with the Star Wars pinball license.

I thought Elvira 3 was the next KAPOW/Stern game. Pretty ballsy to show that when their first title is, well, neglected.

And, given Stern's declining code polishing reputation, assume what's there now is about what it will be for the future. Not a home game, but probably okay on route (KISS does great on route, and this is a KISSing cousin to that).

Depending on how the theme was implemented, but yeah, I'd be into it too, most-likely. Unless Lonnie was on it. Then no...just no. He needs to start building some "polished to a shine" credibility first, IMO. Too many buggy carcasses.

Plus AS is Stern proper, while Batman'66 is boutique Kapow.

It's a Lonnie game, so the best you can hope for is mostly complete. It will likely never be polished, given his extensive history with not really doing the polish step on his games.

WORSE, because I can see those Jacky callouts getting super grating in home use.

Yeah, that was really surprising on IM. Making Extra Ball a random award like that machine does is lame. Wonder why they went that route?

So it's not random? I knew it was connected to the shields, but I always thought the award was random. I would always milk the shields for awards, and it seems like it would take more than two before EB would light on the left ramp.

I still think this is a fairly repetitive pin that's better for a route, but being able to get to the Wizard mode early on doesn't really mean anything. I remember playing Spiderman on location with pretty early code, not really knowing what I was doing and getting to Super Hero that first time ever playing it. That is something it took me years to do again once all the "game" was in the machine. So, yeah, wizard mode will likely be more challenging to reach over time.

Didn't get a special Wizard Mode song for Rock City on KISS. Same song you already heard a lot of if/when you get there. I assume Aerosmith is the same.

That reinforces that Aerosmith is a light reskin of KISS (completely obviously from the layout), and also explains how the code had a headstart to be so far along.

And the post that was removed between the pop bumpers is there for KISS, too.

Well, when you start with a good base (KISS) and spend almost two years polishing it, that's not surprising.

The system settings slipup is just confirmation of what everyone suspected. If you've spent time with KISS, the overall similarities are overwhelming.

I'm really not that put out about the KISS situation. It's fun as-is, and it earns GREAT on location for the one I help maintain, so not really bitter. Irritated would be a better word, mostly at Stern outright lying about the "big update" (Nov) then "not so big" update (Jan) then, oh, they haven't been working on it (Mar).

If you want to talk bitter, THAT is a conversation for the abomination that is Batman'66 and the alpha version they shipped that's stuck in a user beta test until at least Summer - at our expense. I AM pissed about that.

It's a little more complicated than that. I help an op with his route pins and they live at my house for anywhere from a couple weeks to months (BM'66, which is nowhere close to route-ready, so it's sequestered because, unlike Stern, he's not dumping a turd on his customers) while I get them bulletproofed to go out. So I have access to pretty much every Stern and JJP and have played them extensively at home before they go out.

BM'66 is a disaster. Period. It might someday be just okay, but it's terrible now, and in no way route-ready. There's nothing there. It might as well be the late 1980s with that pin's content and rules. AeroKISS is a modified KISS layout using (verified by the OOPS! in the system settings) the KISS code skeleton. Surprised? No KISS owner is. The software has been built up differently, but the layout is clearly KISS with only minor changes.

And not to just give Stern some lumps, Hobbit from JJP is still a beautiful mess. Earns nowhere near as well as WoZ on location and isn't super-fun to play, long-term. The OP I help sent his down the road because it wasn't earning. The problems JJP is having with a buggy Ubuntu core are the biggest threat to them moving forward. Both WoZ and Hobbit have serious Linux-based bugs (WoZ lockups, Hobbit loud popping) related to the drivers in the Ubuntu core upgrade last year that make them problematic on route. And the bugs have been there for like 8 months now with no improvement at all. Since it's a Linux problem, I would have thought they would pay a Linux OS genius to work it out for them as a contractor months ago. Nope.

There. A little bit of reality for JJP and Stern. Feel better now?

It's not upsetting, per se, just lazy design. And that quote doesn't work when you're copying yourself.

The layout is EXTREMELY close to a re-theme. Undeniable. Look at the picture. The red is where the elements are on KISS, overlaid on an Aerosmith. Gene head became Jacky-box and it was moved to the Starchild area in the same placement. didn't mark the targets, but they're 3 on the left and 4 on the right vs 4/4 on KISS in approximately the same location. The overlay clearly shows AS is not a from-scratch design. The rules, however, are definitely different and expanded. So not a total retheme, but the layout definitely borrows VERY HEAVILY from KISS, and the software borrows lightly from the same (as evidenced by the system settings still having a KISS setting still in AS).

AeroKISS (resized).jpg

You should be worried. History is not on the side of AS for updates. I don't think this is a home game for any kind of decent player, but I bet it earns really well on route, just like KISS. Almost tempted to talk the OP I help into putting one out.

Different kinds of games. ToM is a flow game. WoZ is stop and go. You can't really compare them directly as a result, but for gameplay experience, WoZ is a much better game. MUCH. ToM is just too shallow and easy to complete in a collection. I've had ToM a couple times, even making a pristine one (pictured) that I sold not long after finishing it.

ballview (resized).jpg

rollovers (resized).jpg

IMG_3683 (resized).JPG

Right ramp is backhandable on KISS, too. Hard, but not impossible.

Uh, hello? Thunderbirds? Looks like a perfect fit.

Replace the power supply fan with a quiet one (no idea why Stern doesn't demand this in the power supply spec from their supplier). The stock fan is ANNOYINGLY loud on all the Spike machines.

So probably a ground issue, then.

I'd start with Stern or your distributor. Stern may have failed to ground all the items properly, so they can tell you what to check.

Since this isn't the only pin you have, I'm assuming your house is wired properly, so it's not that.

The cost is a wash or literally pennies. At retail the fans (current vs quiet) are the same price. This has to be a case where Stern just can't be bothered to take care of something really annoying (especially in a home environment) that would cost nothing or next to nothing to change.

Yeah, the WoZ fan is loud, but it's nothing compared to the fans on those Spike power supplies.

Put a ground isolation device on the sound output from the motherboard and it takes care of that static on the speakers.

KISS is the same way, Deuce and Lick it Up are dead simple and ones like Black Diamond and Hotter than Hell are quite challenging. There's definitely an order to get through them. On KISS do the easy ones first and try to set up the hard ones for a multiball.

Yes, but that's why any experienced coder uses defines or something similar in their reusable code. #define gamename "KISS" and then you only have to change that to #define gamename "ASmith" (or the whole thing if you have room) and it changes it in all the strings you used gamename at compile with no mistakes like the one in the AS settings. Lonnie must know this, but I have no idea why he isn't using it.

Dead simple to install. The cabs are pre-drilled and t-nutted for the shaker motor. You want this:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=3710

While you're there, get these to preserve the art around the flipper buttons from rubbing off:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1747

No. What I'm saying is if Lonnie (or whoever) had defined gamename variable as "KISS" then in his system menus only referenced gamename and NEVER the actual name, it would replace gamename with KISS at compile time EVERYWHERE. Then when AS comes around he changes the #define for gamename to "Aerosmith" (or shorter if space needed) and all those settings now immediately become Aerosmith. Doesn't matter what the setting is, if the game name is referenced, use a define.

Now, as you pointed out, if it's a graphic that's more complicated, but there are ways to streamline that flow, too.

Point is, reusing a code base is good, but you need to have a well designed set of tools. WAY too many programmers end up jumping in and making spaghetti that isn't modular. It's a universal thing at ALL levels, just because bad code is easier than good code - INITIALLY. Eventually bad code becomes a much larger burden. I've seen and worked with the worst spaghetti code you can imagine written at the professional level in Japan and Europe's biggest game companies. Some is shockingly bad. No one is immune.

Is there a way to adjust the lock launch into the toybox? We got a Premium in and the lock shoots high and to the left 9 times out of 10. Almost never goes IN. Coil pulse is set to soft.

Took it down to 140 and it's better at probably 4 out of 5 tries making it. I'll keep playing with it.

EDIT: I dunno, now it's inconsistent again. Is Toybox Diverter the right adjustment?

AS pinblades are OOS until the end of May, too.

PBL's search sucks. I searched and that didn't come up, only Batman blades. Crazy.