Aerosmith will be awesome - can't wait. Maybe they'll get Dirty Donnie again

Aerosmith will sell just fine. Just because a small group of pinsiders are very passionate on their like/dislike for particular rock bands, it doesn't mean diddly. Aerosmith is one of the top selling bands ever and will be a big draw - and Stern knows this.

They have more US album sales (67 million) than ANY of the other suggested bands except the Beatles and Led Zeppelin - which Stern probably can't get the licensing for. It's kind of hilarious how many people keep suggesting B-level heavy metal bands like they would have a shot at selling in volume for a pinball machine over a mega popular band like Aerosmith.

Some of the negativity is probably spurred on by a dislike that Steven Tyler was on American Idol - but from a marketing perspective, Steven Tyler / Aerosmith is mega popular right now and will result in more sales because of American Idol.

Bring it on Stern! The naysayers are just a small, insignificant (but vocal) sampling

LOL - I didn't say IM was B-Level - they're probably the best heavy metal option that's been mentioned (for a pinball machine) - primarily because of the album artwork and Eddie. Maiden would be polarizing and would stop as many purchases as it would pull in.

Exactly - people are very passionate about music, so the negativity comes out pretty strong.

Incorrect - Aerosmith has sold many more albums AFTER Rocks, than they did up through Rocks. Their record sales indicate plenty of good albums - they are one of the top selling bands ever at around 160 million albums. Why keep repeating the same negative, ignoring the facts (record sales), opinion? You're right - it is pretty silly.

Are you sure? What about SW:EP 1?

The topper with Steven Tyler doesn't look as good because of the circle around his head.
If you could cut it to the unique outline of the head (like the Jacky topper) it would look better.

Dude - don't try to pass it off as just your sense of humor. It obviously pisses you off, as you have lamented how terrible it is that Stern is doing Aerosmith relentlessly for at least a half a year! It's like some terrible tragedy happened in your personal life that you blame Aerosmith for. You literally have hundreds of anti-Aerosmith posts to your credit. It's not good to be so negatively obsessive.

It's like they took everything that's wrong with KISS and redesigned it to make an awesome pin!

Stern definitely has the license and is planning on making Iron Maiden. As I mentioned before, they were playing Iron Maiden videos at the 30th anniversary party - at a public event. You can't legally do that unless you have been given permission to do so. All the other music videos they played were ALL Stern Pinballs already (including Aerosmith).

This makes no sense. You make positive remarks and then give it a 6.0 out of 10???

2 or 3 people stating a similar opinion is not a consensus.

Yes - you got it!

5200, 7000, 8300

Just because they put out a small code update doesn't mean anything regarding future updates. The previous update was only a couple weeks ago. They probably just wanted to get the topper code out there.

But why is it so upsetting that the layout or code has similarities to Kiss? Most of Borgs games have close similarities to each other. Aerosmith doesn't *feel* like you are playing Kiss, especially if you look at the Premium with the additional playfield - so the similarities are of no consequence. Additionally, "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".

The LE on Aerosmith is awesome - here's why...
- Awesome mirrored backglass (real BG, not translite)
- Best art package
- Purple powder coated armor goes great with the game
- Great Mini-Playfield
- 3 color GI like Metallica and AC/DC LE's (Blue, Red and White)
- Added drop blocking the Elevator shot - only goes down after the Elevator lock is qualified

Details on the mini-playfield...
- doesn't slow the ball at all on ramp shots -> actually a very cool loop around the mini playfield straight back to the right flipper
- adds the AC/DC Bell multiplier style rules to the game -> complete the mini playfield targets and loop for 2x scoring
- totally awesome during multiball - trying to get 2x going playing both playfields at the same time
- makes multiballs more exciting due to balls firing at the flippers from the right ramp
- playing the mini-playfield is short and sweet, not a gimme but not too much time -> what mini playfields should be!
- added strategy of shooting the toy box lock shot (or mode shot if lit) from the mini-playfield
-- it's possible to go for the Elevator lock, and then make this shot for a mode shot and/or lock shot
- extra flashers around the sides of the mini-playfield
- fits with the theme - the Elevator between the 2 levels

The Aerosmith mini-playfield is executed perfectly and totally enhances the game. Taking away the mini-playfield, it's still an awesome game for sure, but it's like removing the Bell from AC/DC. Bottom line is, it's a lot of fun!!!

Crap theme for some, great theme for others -> exactly like any of the music pins including Metallica and AC/DC.

The Premium and LE are the same as far as game features - the differences are the Artwork, Backglass, and Armor

Kiss is Spike and has 3 color controlled GI on the Premium/LE also. They haven't coded in many special effects yet, but that was the same with Metallica and Kiss at first.

Sweet Emotion maintains progress. If you don't complete a mode, but it runs out of time -> then you start it again -> it will start from the beginning. This may have been what you saw.

Be honest - you've been bagging on Aerosmith endlessly as soon as it was announced. You had NO IDEA what it looked like, played like or anything, but kept saying it would suck because it was Aerosmith. You're opinion was locked in, with absolutely no info. That's why you're opinion on AS doesn't really matter since it has nothing to do with the actual game - just the theme!

What you talkin' bout?

Completely disagree with your cons - the modes are not bland at all - they are cooler than most other recent Stern games for sure.
Incoherent theme??? - There is nothing incoherent at all... It's all based around Aerosmith, and their songs. Jackie is a jack in the box toy, that's collecting toys (in the attic) for Toybox Multiball. It fit's perfectly with the song and multiball.

Upper playfield is awesome - you have to understand how it integrates with the rules.
Doesn't play at all like Kiss - similar layout, with anything that was "not fun" replaced/fixed - much better actually.
Modes balance is fine - could use some tweeking but way more balanced than most games really.
Playfield isn't bare at all on the LE And it's got the best artwork of ANY Stern game ever!

The negative comments are coming 90% from people that don't have a clue - most have never played, and others have minimal playtime as is obvious by their comments.

There is an option in the menu to stop timers or not - so you can choose what you like.

This isn't a bug. The game won't keep locking balls in the toy box if there are already balls in there. So it specifically closes the box and launches the ball to miss on purpose. If you watch the animation, it will show something with Jackie getting hit in the face or some other animation that indicates the ball is NOT going to go into the toybox.

I own both - Aerosmith will be much better for your family. It's been a huge hit for everyone that's played ours - it's just very fun.

Completely wrong - Vic has a vendetta against Aerosmith as he's obviously upset about Kiss. Don't pay any attention to his posts as all he's doing is constantly posting negatively about it. If you don't think it's true, just look at his post history.

The mini-playfield is great - not going to repeat myself here but made a whole topic comparing it to others. It's suppose to be easy to get the targets by necessity of how it works into the rules. Once the targets are complete you need to get the outer loop shot which isn't easy from the upper flipper - but you can then get the loop with a ramp shot. Vic doesn't get it because he's too biased against the game.

Don't be discouraged - see post above - Aerosmith is awesome and most of what Vic says is incorrect due to sour grapes on Kiss.

The beef you have seems to be that you don't want Aerosmith to be liked more than Kiss. You chose to spend your hard earned money on a Kiss LE, and now that Aerosmith is the next music pin with a similar layout you just keep doggin' on AS. It's very evident in your posting history, as you keep repeating yourself. You're comments are obviously biased as you are harping on negatives that aren't really there, honestly.

I'm a long time pinball player myself and have a pretty good history of picking solid games - here are the Stern games I bought NIB because IMO they were excellent - NOTE that every game I bought early in it's life cycle - I didn't wait for others opinions, I played them and decided it was a good game early, and without following the crowd:

- TSPP
- LOTR
- AC/DC
- Tron
- Metallica - and I don't like the band
- IMVE - I didn't pick IM originally - this is the only one that had to grow on me
- TWDLE
- ST
- GOT
- GBLE - a great game, but does need some mods for excessive draining
- ASLE

The only other game I would have bought NIB, but it wasn't a good time is SM. These have been my picks of good games that I spent my money on. I think the list speaks for itself, and ASLE, Tron and Metallica are the ones that stood out the best from the start.

It's great you like KISS, and I don't want to bag on it - but I guarantee most people are going to like AS more. The majority of pinsiders were anti-Aerosmith based on theme alone before the game was ever revealed. Now many are seeing it's a great game, even though they hate the band/theme.

Because the shot itself must be hit from the very tip of the flipper. Most good/great players miss it more than they make it.

The mini-playfield difficulty is perfectly balanced for it's reward. You are missing that the best time to get the 2x Playfield multiplier is during multiball!!! Which means you want to complete the mini-playfield during multi-ball - IE. while you are keeping the other balls in play. This is a key ingredient missing from many other mini-playfield implementations - and what makes it extra fun. It's not so easy to complete while you are playing both playfields at the same time. The game is designed so that you SHOULD go for the 2x playfield a lot to get the best scoring - it's meant to be easy - just like the bell on AC/DC. You wouldn't argue that the AC/DC bell is too easy, therefore no fun, would you?

It's all about the balance of difficulty, risk and reward which then results in making a game fun and exciting. Just like holding out for a 4, 5, or 6 ball Toybox multiball - it's extra exciting to know that you skipped starting a 3 ball multiball (taking a risk), and your on your last ball so you could lose it and get nothing (never even start it), or you do start it and get the bigger jackpots for the win. These extra risk/rewards in Aerosmith make it extra fun, as many are discovering.

Aerosmith would be closer to Tron than IM as far as code depth. It's not extra deep like TSPP, LOTR or TWD, but it's plenty deep.

There are 2 wizard modes:
Medley Multiball : mini-wizard mode - complete all modes to get to
Final Tour : wizard mode - *finish* all modes to get to

The 7 song modes work like Star Treks "Away Team": Once you've made at least one mode shot, "Crank It Up" is lit at the scoop. Shooting crank it up adds 20 seconds and enhances (more points / shots) the mode. It's best to get Crank It Up as quickly as possible in each mode.

Every song mode has an associated Super Mode. If you progress far enough in a song mode you start the Super Mode. As you make shots in the song modes, you get "Coins", which are cashed in when you start the Super Mode to boost your Super Mode point values.

Here are the normal modes + their corresponding Super Modes.

- Walk This Way -------------- Super Ramps
- Sweet Emotion --------------- Super Scoring
- Same Old Song and Dance -- Super Targets
- Back in the Saddle ----------- Super Pops
- Rats in the Cellar ------------ Super Spinner
- Last Child -------------------- Super Orbits
- Dude Look Like a Lady ------- Super Lanes

The super modes are well worth it, and a good time to use your multipliers (possibly stack with a MB)

Here is the multiplier stacking...
- Shot Multipliers possible on every shot (2x) - spell Aerosmith to light
- Playfield multiplier (2x) (Premium/LE only) - complete upper playfield -> always available
- ToyBox multiball playfield multiplier (2x -> 3x) -> lock balls in the ToyBox during TB Multiball

Since these are stackable, you can get 12x multipliers during TB multiball: 2 *2 * 3 = 12, and 4x multipliers outside of TB multiball

There's also something if you progress far enough into Love In An Elevator multiball, (maybe just super jackpots?) but I haven't gotten there yet.

There are "Smart Bombs" that you can use to get any major lit shot - but they are only handed out as mystery awards currently, and not very often. They definitely should make someway to acquire the Smart Bombs. Possibly making the "Lock" skill shot would be a good way to award "Smart Bombs".

Actually, it IS much more of a universal opinion that Aerosmith is super fun. You're definitely in the minority Vic

Not at all - the song is great fun to play to AND the mode gives you 4 shots lit to start, and when you finish those 4 all shots light. So it's pretty tough to finish, but there is a good opportunity for points. On Witch King only 1 or 2 shots are lit at a time.

You only need to complete the modes to reach Final Tour - you can get to Medley Multiball by just starting all modes.

Yes - and that's a good thing. You've gotta keep the final wizard mode a challenge!
Sweet Emotion isn't that hard to beat - I've beaten it many times. All it takes is a CIU and an Add More Time to make it very achievable.

Gotta fix the AC/DC vs Aerosmith comparison...

Theme: Aerosmith - (subjective - should probably just call it a tie)
Playfield Art: Aerosmith
Cabinet Art: Aerosmith
Translite: Aerosmith
Layout/Flow: Aerosmith - seriously AC/DC only loops in one direction
Music: Aerosmith - AS songs are much more varied in style (and chords LOL) = each song feels different on AS
Rules/Code: AC/DC, but AS is pretty close with selectable multiball, CIUs, Super Modes and an extra wizard mode
Fun: Aerosmith
Toys: Tie
Display: Aerosmith
Lighting: Aerosmith

AC/DC is great - but it does not win against Aerosmith - it will take a while for people to figure this out, but eventually they will

The game isn't boring at all - it's the exact opposite. There is absolutely nothing wrong or boring with re-using proven/good rules in a slightly modified way in pinball. Many times the "new" rules don't work as well as the tried and true rehashed rules. AS has combined many different proven rules together into one awesome game.

Additionally, most games do not have "original" rules anyway - there's only so much to do on a pinball playfield. Sure, you can code up a complicated set of rules that a small number of people will think is awesome - but leaves most people scratching their heads as to what exactly is going on (especially on location for people just stepping up to a game). IMO the really complex rules start to feel more like video game rules, and makes the game less fun than simple, straight forward rules. Example: GoT vs TWD - all the houses on GoT is more like a video game, and most people don't know what to do for quite a while on it, where TWD has straight forward objectives and modes.

Very true - a game doesn't have to be all "flow" with extra complex rules to be a top game

Look at pics of the LE - it has purple powder coated armor.

You have to light the lock first. *If* the lock is already lit, you can do the the soft plunge to lock the ball. Therefore, the lock will never be lit on the first plunge of your first ball - although the shot may be lit for the particular song/mode you choose. For example, if you select "Sweet Emotion" the lock/softPlunge shot will be lit with a red arrow. It's especially sweet when the shot is lit for both a lock and the mode and you can soft plunge to get both.

Here's a cool/fun scenario:
- hit the toybox 6 times to qualify ALL 6 lock shots (flashing green numbers indicate qualified locks)
- for the fun of it (not sure on how many points this will get you)
----- spell AEROSMITH to pick a shot multiplier -> and shoot the lock shot -> all shots to the lock scoop are doubled
- soft plunge the next 5 balls (before the auto-plunge) -> to start 6 ball multi-ball

AS has a similar playfield layout, but plays nothing like KISS. AS will be considered a top Stern pin, and there is a lot "new" on AS:

- Excellent LCD Screen integration
- Best Art Package on a Stern pin - ever (playfield, cabinet and backglass are all excellent)
- Best (most fun) Ball Lock on a Stern
- Best MB start on a Stern - Toys in the Attic MB with shaking Toy Box and roaming spot light
- Best through the pops shot on a Stern/Borg pin
- Best combo of mini-playfield + rules on a Stern - the 2X risk reward is awesome
- Excellent "Best Of" rules, with fun strategy and exciting risk/reward
- Great variety of songs (unless you hate all Aerosmith - LOL too bad for you)
- Most "just plain fun" Stern game ever - IMO

*AND* let's not forget -> most HATED ON Stern pin before anyone ever even saw the game!

It's too bad you can't shake the bias that has been predominant against AS, because you're missing out - big time.
I have most of the top Sterns, and AS is the most liked/played among a large variety of players.

AS is just as good as Met IMO - In fact, I would say it's even more fun and is even better as a complete package.

Here's some actual comparisons...

Met is slightly wood choppy to get things going - AS is not.
Met doesn't have any normal modes - AS has a bunch of great normal modes.
Met has a lot of cool wizard modes - AS has 2

If wizard modes are your highest priority -> get Met
Otherwise get AS

IMO AS will last longer than Met -> specifically because of the "slightly wood choppy" nature of Met

Check with Trent, http://www.tiltamusements.com/

IMO "Completing" a pinball and then being done with it is a "Video Game" mentality. That's not how I think of pinball, and IMO it takes the fun out of a game. I like to have wizard modes that I see infrequently - but I enjoy getting to them on that infrequent basis. It's not like seeing the end of a movie.

BTW - Medley mode is ONLY a mini-wizard mode, that you SHOULD get to every once in a while. Like Crank it Up on Met or Royal Madness on MM. There's nothing wrong with that. Final Tour is the Wizard Mode and it's quite difficult to get to - almost no one has seen it with the glass on!

Some more FYI's for you regarding lack of depth...
- AC/DC only has 1 Wizard mode - so I guess you really don't like that game
- MM, AFM and The Shadow, and almost ALL B/W 90's games only have 1 Wizard mode - all fails I guess
- Tron has 2 that are connected - SOS and Portal - no more than AS
- Many more people have seen the final mode on "Dialed In", than on AS -> should they all get rid of DI now?

The list goes on and on and on... There are a small number of A games with really deep rules -> That's NOT the most important thing in making a game fun!!! It's nice to have a couple deep things to go for, and that's exactly what AS has!

The majority of competent players I know don't have this "Video Game" mentality regarding pinball. I find it more prevalent among the "B/C" players, that want to explore a game and once they've seen it move on.

Unfortunately, most people don't have access to a constant stream of new pins.

It's good to know your take on what you like when considering your recommendations. I respect your opinion of what you like (for you), but just feel very differently. It's revealing to know that you only keep a game you can't finish - and once you finish it you get rid of it. Others that feel that same way should follow your advice, as it would probably suit them. It's exactly the "Video Game" mentality I mentioned - but if that's what you enjoy, then here are my top recommendations: TSPP, LOTR, WOZ, Hobbit, TWD, MET.

FYI - you can't just add songs, you have to replace songs with songs that have the same exact length. You can use songs that are longer, but they will be cut off at the length of the song being replaced. If you have a shorter song, there will be a blank/silence in the gap.

That's what I did (2 songs in 1 slot) - and IMO it's great. I have a 'hidden' song that you only get to hear if you play well enough. I've not had the issue of the rewind being noticeable at all - it doesn't cross the song boundary 90% of the time.

I've actually fit in over 20 songs in Metallica, because they are so long. I prefer to keep the songs as is in Aerosmith because they're much more integrated into the game with the integration of the LCD display. In Metallica, it's more just music playing.

That sounds like a great deal - that's over $1000 less than new.