Sure. Stern has decades of experience. JJP is new. Pros and cons for both. Stern has proven (safe?) designs and quality, with an established brand. JJP has fresh/young blood gaining experience each year. Young designers with out-there designs. Sure, some ideas did not work. But JJP is also way more transparent. We know what failed design-wise because JJP opted to show us their design early.

I like all companies and hope they all stay afloat. It offers us more choices.

If I'm allowed to stir the pot a little though; JJP's design is risky and innovative. I mean, a rocking ship upper playfield? Name another innovation that bold in the last 5 years?

Yeah, well, I have no idea. As far as I'm concerned, TBL is a myth. I have never seen one in the wild. They are as rare as Pope shit.

I mean about their designs. It would be safer for them not to show videos of the work-in-progress. That's all I mean.

Yes.

Yes. But how long as Stern (and its previous companies) have been operating? I'm just comparing.

Meh. I've played it. It's "ok". But it's not a pure pinball machine. I am talking about something in the real-world that must comply with the current laws of physics. Know what I mean? Not software, where anything can happen. So I'm talking about mechs that really exist.

Other examples:

Houdini has a ball that's shot across the whole playfield.

The Hobbit has 2 coils per drop target, allowing automatic up and downs on each single target.

That kind of stuff...

Calm down. Calling me a liar now? I played it at the Rocky Mountain Pinball Showdown, I believe 3 years ago.

It's not that it's "hot". The design is risky, but the reward is awesome to look at. I am talking about physics. A ball traveling in a wire-form requires less finicky design adjustments than the alternative. That's all I am saying.

The rocking ship is not a toy. It's an upper-playfield that's integral to the game. No?

Yes! That's a good example of cool and risky design. But with risk comes critique also. Some people hated those slings?

I am not partial to any company! I just saying with risky designs potentially also come failures...

I agree to a certain extent. But with that mentality, games from the 90's would have been the end of the line? Don't get me wrong, I own games from the 90s and early 2000s and some are my favorites. You're right, a nice flowing game that's well design, even with basic safe design is rewarding to play.

I've never seen one in the wild. Don't get me wrong, I own a Virtual Pinball setup, so I am not against video-pinball at its purest form. P3 ends up being an open middle playfield though...

Yes. Innovation in the real-world, not like say, Pinball FX3 tables from Zen software (video game). And you still called me a liar. You hurt my delicate feelings...

I know it's not. Just pulling your 'lastic. Do you own a p3 by any chance? Not that there's anything wrong with it.

Ok, to be clear so you don't have to step up your level of insults, I was discussing 100% genuine pinball machine design, not hybrids. Again, nothing wrong with hybrids if that's your thing. "Stern pinball sales" is how this started. Stern being a pinball machine maker.

Also, do you consider the rocking ship to be a toy? I am really asking.

(or are we done here, I somehow ended up on your blacklist for whatever reason, not sure what I did to you)

Na. I think the code was ok and deep enough for initial release.

I did find the code on Guardians to appear limited though (initial release).

To be honest, I have limited play on both these titles, Guardians jumped at me though.

He does. TSPP and Dracula.

To be fair, TSPP does have awesome code.

Cool shit = innovative design.

He writes "cool shit", gets 5 upvotes.

I talk about good design, I get destroyed.

That's pinside for ya.

Actually you're right. I mean, cool shit often comes from innovative design, but not always.

Hey man. Go suck a lemon, you condescending twit.

Actually, Yeah, that's probably true in general.

Mommy! the pinside guys are not nice to me!

To be fair, I was really trying to contribute to this thread in a civilized way, trying to watch what I write. I see now, that this concept is not really needed. That's fine.

I for one, cannot wait to play that title. Wondering if the gameplay from my Champion Pub has spoiled me though. We shall see.