(Topic ID: 95124)

Stencil Kit Question


By Arcade

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 70 posts
  • 19 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by KingNine
  • Topic is favorited by 12 Pinsiders

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There are 70 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 5 years ago

We want to repaint our Captain Fantastic cabinet and were going to make our own stencils. We decided it would probably be easier and faster to buy a kit but there are three people selling them and I can't find much info on here about the quality and usability of any of them. Do any of you have some experience with these guys?

http://www.classic-arcades.com/STORE/index1.html?305.html&1
http://www.twistedpins.com/products/stencil_kits/?tabid=3091&PageIndex=3
http://www.pinballpal.com/products/stencil/

The twisted pin guy seems active on here so I guess I'd lean that way but would love to here some opinions on the subject first.

#2 5 years ago

Steer 1,000 miles clear of Classic Arcades! Jeff there is horrid with communication, had a bad experience. Just search this forum on them - you'll find enough bad news.

#3 5 years ago

I used a Twisted Pins stencil on my Big Game. It turned out nice. No complaints about their stencils. It's still a lot of work to do the stenciling, but loads less work than if you made the stencils yourself.

--Luke

#4 5 years ago

Thanks guys. I'll be doing the stenciling with him. That's good info.

#5 5 years ago

I used a Twisted Pins stencil as well, they were very nice. It was still an enormous undertaking, but it came out beautifully!

#6 5 years ago
Quoted from KingNine:

Thanks guys. I'll be doing the stenciling with him. That's good info.

That's good. I found the stencils were easier to apply with a helper.

--Luke

#7 5 years ago

I have used a few stencil kits from both pinballpal , and twistedpins . Both of these companies stencils are good ,can't go wrong buying from either . Pinballpal does make a 2nd gen stencil kit that is made from a thicker material , It is a little easier to apply because it is more ridged . Although the 2nd gen kits I have used did not come with a transfer tape on them which then made it a little more difficult to keep some of the stencil in it's proper place so I got some transfer tape and applied it to the stencils before applying the stencil to the cabinet . With the transfer tape on the 2nd gen kit they were the easiest to apply and would be the ones I would prefer to use . Maybe they are putting transfer tape on the 2nd gen now .

#8 5 years ago

Do stencil kits come with paint mix info?

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from Chuck_Sherman:

Do stencil kits come with paint mix info?

No they don't - and absolutely DO NOT use Classic Arcades. I have now used 4 sets of his stencils - all were incorrect - and required A LOT of work to get them to look right. In fact, I have three full brand new sets now waiting to be used (2 Mata Hari sets and a Space Invaders Set) that I will never use because I don't want to go through the hassle of correcting. I intend to re-purchase the three sets from Twisted Pins. Travis has been awesome with communication and he actually cares about making sure his stencils are correct!

#10 5 years ago

I'll add that I priced out the materials to make stencils from Hobby Lobby. Looking at $80 in its own right. Not worth the trouble to save about $40 if you ask me.

#11 5 years ago

I saw a post from about a year ago saying pinball pal was closed. Any word if that is true?

#12 5 years ago

Yes, Pinball Pal is closed.

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from KenLayton:

Yes, Pinball Pal is closed.

Thanks Ken. Looks like Twisted Pins wins then. Travis from there sent my brother a nice private message about his stencils so I already like them

#14 5 years ago

Question on the Twisted pin stencils - I am assuming these are some sort of vinyl & you won't get the factory overspray look -- correct?

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from dasvis:

I am assuming these are some sort of vinyl & you won't get the factory overspray look -- correct?

Correct.

You can get that underspray look with a lot of extra work, but even then, nothing looks as good as real rigid stencil.

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Correct.
You can get that underspray look with a lot of extra work, but even then, nothing looks as good as real rigid stencil.

Is there a way to get one or do you have to make your own? I seriously thougth about it but decided this was too complicated and didn't want to do it twice once I messed up trying to save a buck.

#17 5 years ago

Well the stencil from Travis at Twisted Pins is on the way. I was interested in the under/overspray look but Arcade (OP) likes the clean look so I think I'll be just as happy either way. I don't subscribe to the original ugly cabinet is better theroy.

#18 5 years ago

Up to the beginning of the 1980ies, every pinball cabinet was spray painted using metal stencils. The artist made a line drawing in 2 colors (+ the background color of the cabinet), of which thin metal stencils were cut. You can recognise these as they only have a few colors, have very simple designs (thin lines are not possible) and sometimes the borders are 'fuzzy', as they can have a little overspray.

I found this on Flippers.be

#19 5 years ago

Capt Fantastic stencils also available from www.flipperescue.com

Results speak for themselves
IMG_0521.JPG
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IMG_0538.JPG

#20 5 years ago
Quoted from Retropin:

Capt Fantastic stencils also available from http://www.flipperescue.com
Results speak for themselves

capt Fant sample.jpg 432 KB

IMG_0538.JPG 274 KB

IMG_0530.JPG 396 KB

IMG_0521.JPG 516 KB

That looks great! What color white did you use? (For that matter what color red and blue) Was that the flipper rescue stencil?

#21 5 years ago

Yes.. they are my stencils.
The white isn't white.. in fact there is no white on any cabinets that I know of. The base colour here is a very very pale green believe it or not... ive attached a pic of a tin of true white and the cabinet colour is the mix on the RHS.
All colours were mixed by matching the paint under the door trim, so I cant say what red to use etc.. what I can do though on the weekend is post the Pantone match for each colour on this thread which should assist you in getting the colours as close to original as possible..
The cabinet we had for this restore was completely rotten throughout the base and so we used a donor cab from a Bally Night Rider which allowed me to take pieces of it to the paint to match rather than the paint to the cabinet.. hence the broken off piece in the pic.. theres a dollop of paint on the white part to show the match
BALLY white 1.JPG
BALLY white.JPG

Post edited by Retropin: More information

#22 5 years ago

You can always make your own...

IMG_4333.JPG
#23 5 years ago

Stencil Kit from twisted pins arrived yesterday. Only took 2 days to get here. Maybe the weather will be good enough this weekend to start. image-491.jpg

#24 5 years ago

Make sure to post some photos!

--Luke

#25 5 years ago

Will do. We are debating the basecoat idea now. Roll or Spray??? We don't have a compressed air paint system so it is rattle cans for us on the spraying.

#26 5 years ago

I use a compressor and cheap HVLP gun from Harbor Freight to spray my cabinets and I'm happy with the results. Pretty easy to do, too. I'm not sure about rolling, but rattle can spraying the basecoat is going to make your finger hurt.

--Luke

#27 5 years ago

How big of a compressor do you use? I have a pancake compressor.

#28 5 years ago

I have a 21 gallon upright. A pancake might not be big enough...it probably would have to be constantly recharging.

--Luke

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from HighNoon:

I have a 21 gallon upright. A pancake might not be big enough...it probably would have to be constantly recharging.
--Luke

That is what I feared and why we wern't going to try and use it. If it starts making the paint gun spurt it could look pretty bad and be hard to fix. I don't have a lot of knowledge in the area but a good consistant spray with an even coat is what the goal is.

As a side note/question, do you find it hard to clean out the system between colors? That worries me. I don't need pink because I sprayed white and red.

#30 5 years ago

I use Behr 100% Acrylic Enamel from Home Depot. It cleans up with water, so the whole system isn't really very hard to clean up. The main thing is to make sure and take the gun completely apart and clean everything. Only takes about 5 minutes. The hardest part is just making sure that you don't lose any of the little pieces. I've never had any problems with colors mixing.

--Luke

#31 5 years ago

Well I found a gravity feed gun at harbour freight on sale for $16. I'm going to buy it tomorrow and hook it up to my pancake compressor to see what kind of duration I can get out of it. If it passes the test I'll use it instead of rattle cans.

Thanks for the tips

#32 5 years ago

Was it something like this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/20-oz-high-volume-low-pressure-gravity-feed-spray-gun-47016.html

If so, that's what I use. Good luck! Let us know how it goes!

--Luke

#33 5 years ago

I use automotive paint. It is more expensive but you get what you pay for. It doesn't need to be thinned when it goes in the sprayer, covers in one nice thin coat, can be applied easily to a vertical surface, dries rock hard in like 10 seconds and doesn't peel or lift when you pull up the stencil. Once the prep and base coat is on, the stencil work literally takes less than an hour for the whole cabinet and head. I then do a light sanding to knock down the paint edges and coat the whole cabinet with Minwax polycrylic semigloss clear. This gives the whole cabinet uniform reflection, protects the paint and you can run your hand down the cabinet and barely feel any edges.

#34 5 years ago

I can't stress enough the importance of prep. You can be the best painter in the world but if you cabinet is prepped correctly then the end result will not that great.

#35 5 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

I use automotive paint. It is more expensive but you get what you pay for. It doesn't need to be thinned when it goes in the sprayer, covers in one nice thin coat, can be applied easily to a vertical surface, dries rock hard in like 10 seconds and doesn't peel or lift when you pull up the stencil. Once the prep and base coat is on, the stencil work literally takes less than an hour for the whole cabinet and head. I then do a light sanding to knock down the paint edges and coat the whole cabinet with Minwax polycrylic semigloss clear. This gives the whole cabinet uniform reflection, protects the paint and you can run your hand down the cabinet and barely feel any edges.

Awesome, what brand and where do you purchase your automotive paints?

#36 5 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

I use automotive paint. It is more expensive but you get what you pay for. It doesn't need to be thinned when it goes in the sprayer, covers in one nice thin coat, can be applied easily to a vertical surface, dries rock hard in like 10 seconds and doesn't peel or lift when you pull up the stencil. Once the prep and base coat is on, the stencil work literally takes less than an hour for the whole cabinet and head. I then do a light sanding to knock down the paint edges and coat the whole cabinet with Minwax polycrylic semigloss clear. This gives the whole cabinet uniform reflection, protects the paint and you can run your hand down the cabinet and barely feel any edges.

What brand are you using? I ask because every automotive paint I have ever seen is "mixed" with reducer - which is thinning it. Also, I don't know any that cover in one single coat. Not trying to be argumentative, quite the opposite, if you have a product that does as you say I would like to try it because although I love the product I use and it gets phenomenal results, it certainly has to be reduced (thinned) and it takes about 3 coats to look perfect. If there is a cheaper, easier alternative that produces similar results, I'll be all over it! Thanks!

#37 5 years ago

Not sure the brand, but I think it is Dupont because that is what the primer is. I just go to the automotive paint store and they mix it and put it in a generic container. This is not a car parts store or a Sherwin Williams, it is a specialty store for auto paint and supplies. I did have to thin the primer. It is a "high solid" primer. It doesn't sink into the wood grain as much as normal primer when it dries because it is mostly solids. The paint themselves are very thin and worked fine in my sprayer with the largest nozzle. As for the coating, it dries so fast I basically put a really thin coat and wait twenty seconds and come back with a second thicker coat. I guess that is two coats technically, but it is so fast it might as well be one.

#38 5 years ago

Thanks John - that makes sense. I go to a specialty auto paint and supply place as well. They are basically reducing (thinning) it for you and then putting it into the generic can. And I agree entirely about the quick flash times between coats. That's exactly what I do. I usually wait 5-10 minutes between coats just for grins, but it really does flash very quickly depending on humidity. Thanks again!

#39 5 years ago
Quoted from TwistedPins:

I can't stress enough the importance of prep. You can be the best painter in the world but if you cabinet is prepped correctly then the end result will not that great.

+1000 A turd will still look like a turd after painting, unless you prep it properly.

#40 5 years ago
Quoted from HighNoon:

Was it something like this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/20-oz-high-volume-low-pressure-gravity-feed-spray-gun-47016.html
If so, that's what I use. Good luck! Let us know how it goes!
--Luke

Yes. That is the one. I purchased it today and hooked it up to my 6 gallon compressor. I ran a water through it to test it and the compressor. Both passed the test well. I have a buddy that owns an auto repair shop. I'm going to call him tomorrow to see where I can get automotive paint. I've matched the red and blue with my pantone color chart. My standard pantone chart doesn't show shades of white so i'll have to guess the correct off white to use. I took a picture with my phone that I feel came out pretty accurate.

#41 5 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

Not sure the brand, but I think it is Dupont because that is what the primer is. I just go to the automotive paint store and they mix it and put it in a generic container. This is not a car parts store or a Sherwin Williams, it is a specialty store for auto paint and supplies. I did have to thin the primer. It is a "high solid" primer. It doesn't sink into the wood grain as much as normal primer when it dries because it is mostly solids. The paint themselves are very thin and worked fine in my sprayer with the largest nozzle. As for the coating, it dries so fast I basically put a really thin coat and wait twenty seconds and come back with a second thicker coat. I guess that is two coats technically, but it is so fast it might as well be one.

I talked to me friend that owns the body shop and he told me to get DBC grade with the reducer and that it would need to be clear coated. Are you using automotive clear coat or off the shelf at home depot clear coat? Also.. he mentioned there is a "shop grade" auto paint he won't use because it only last about 5 years on an automobile in the sun but would probably work well for this application and would cost less. Any thoughts? I know this paint is much more expensive but in the long run if you only use a little of it is it close to the cost of putting multiple coats of home grade paint like the Behr paint mentioned above?

#42 5 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

I talked to me friend that owns the body shop and he told me to get DBC grade with the reducer and that it would need to be clear coated. Are you using automotive clear coat or off the shelf at home depot clear coat? Also.. he mentioned there is a "shop grade" auto paint he won't use because it only last about 5 years on an automobile in the sun but would probably work well for this application and would cost less. Any thoughts? I know this paint is much more expensive but in the long run if you only use a little of it is it close to the cost of putting multiple coats of home grade paint like the Behr paint mentioned above?

I use either PPG OMNI or Shopline. Both paints work EXCELLENTLY for our game restorations. That said, they are on the lower end of the automotive paint spectrum as discussed. This makes them reasonably priced, yet still very good for out purposes. Your friend is probably correct in the longevity for a car, but we don't purposely keep our pinballs outside in the sun baking all day. Also, the clear - depending on which kind you use - will also aid in the UV protection. The clear I use is also PPG - in the OMNI brand it is 161.

In the end, I use automotive paint because it is harder/tougher, lasts longer, is smoother when applied, and looks much much better. I know there might be some who would disagree, and I know there are some people that do good work with latex, but if you put a latex painted cab up against a sprayed automotive painted cab, and there is no comparison. Just my .02

#43 5 years ago
Quoted from toro1966:

The clear I use is also PPG - in the OMNI brand it is 161.

Thanks for the paint info!! Is that clear a gloss, flat, semi???

#44 5 years ago

Thanks Toro, that is some great information and will help us a lot.

#45 5 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

I talked to me friend that owns the body shop and he told me to get DBC grade with the reducer and that it would need to be clear coated. Are you using automotive clear coat or off the shelf at home depot clear coat? Also.. he mentioned there is a "shop grade" auto paint he won't use because it only last about 5 years on an automobile in the sun but would probably work well for this application and would cost less. Any thoughts? I know this paint is much more expensive but in the long run if you only use a little of it is it close to the cost of putting multiple coats of home grade paint like the Behr paint mentioned above?

DBC stands for Delton Basecoat which is one of the basecoat lines offered by PPG. DBC has been around for a long long time and is a good basecoat. Any basecoat you purchase will need to be clearcoated. I wouldn't use anything other automotive clearcoat. You want to keep your basecoat and clearcoat within the same brand ie. PPG Base/Clear or Dupont Base/Clear etc.. If you use DBC then you can purchase Omni MC161 which is a lower grade clear manufactured by PPG but is a good quality product. You can buy a small bottle of UV additive which can go into the clear which will help add years of protection to the clear. Do not add the UV additive to the basecoat as that can cause issues. Unless you plan on sitting your pinball machine in front of a window with direct sunlight for years on end this paint job will last the lifetime of the machine.

Quoted from KingNine:

Thanks for the paint info!! Is that clear a gloss, flat, semi???

MC161 is glossy as it is designed for overall vehicle refinishing. You can purchasing a flattening agent that you can mix into the clear to get the matte or semi-gloss you are looking for.

#46 5 years ago

I've done hundreds of stencils over the years, started using latexes, then switched to oils and about 6 years ago moved 100% to automotive paints and never looked back. Auto paints have the closest overall match to original results by a mile.. it's worth the extra prep, precautions and cleanup effort every time!

#47 5 years ago

Our automotive place is recommending a single stage paint that already has clear coat in it.
Anybody see a problem with using that.
Seems like a good idea.

#48 5 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

Our automotive place is recommending a single stage paint that already has clear coat in it.
Anybody see a problem with using that.
Seems like a good idea.

Never used it so I can say for sure. The benefit of having the paint and clear separate is that it allows you to lightly buff-sand the painted piece prior to clear. This does two things: 1) It can help remove any minor particles/imperfections that you might have in the paint (dust, etc) prior to clearing. 2) it removes the ridges created at each paint stage from the stencil and allows the entire piece to be very smooth before you clear.

I also concur with Travis that I ONLY use automotive clear. I am not saying that you cannot use any other clear and I know people that have done it, but if you don't use an automotive clear, you better test it on scrap wood because some clears are too "hot" for the paint and will react negatively. If you get the automotive clear, the shop can generally tell you that it is compatible with the paint you're using.

The MC161 is indeed a gloss clear. I use that when people want a shiny smooth finish. I use PPG DCU 2060 (Flex'd n Flat) as a flattening agent when I want it satin or flat. The spec sheet tells you how much to mix to get the desired look.

#49 5 years ago
Quoted from Arcade:

Our automotive place is recommending a single stage paint that already has clear coat in it.
Anybody see a problem with using that.
Seems like a good idea.

DON"T USE SINGLE STAGE!! On a car sure single stage is great as you just put a few coats on and your done. Plus single stage is cheaper. I know your thinking those sound great!

Here is the issue with single stage. It is not designed for doing graphics etc.. Single stage takes awhile to dry so you would need to wait a few days between each color. If you didn't wait the appropriate amount of time you can risk leaving a "print" from the adhesive of the second stencil once it is applied. Most basecoats only take 30mins-1hr to flash off before you can apply the next stencil. Also single stage is much thicker with the clear built in so you would have a much thicker and harder line when you remove the stencil.

Whatever paint you do purchase ask them for the product data sheet. This is not a MSDS sheet but a sheet that gives you all the mixing ratios and the dry times. All automotive paint is designed to be sprayed at 70 degrees. For every 15 degrees above 70 degrees you cut the dry time in half. Also if you go down to 55 degrees then the dry time will double.

#50 5 years ago

Pictures of the latest. First couple pics look washed out, forgot to turn off the flash... - in reality they are rich and deep:
photo 1(1).JPGphoto 2(1).JPGphoto 3(1).JPG

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