(Topic ID: 303595)

Startus interuptus - Sing Along

By DropTarget

2 years ago


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#1 2 years ago

Hi All,

I'm trying to get a Sing Along going and having a start up issue or two.

When I start a game, the thousands and hundreds score reels reset and stop at zero. However, the ones and tens reels do not even attempt to reset. If I manually set them to zero, the score motor stops spinning, but the game does not play. Ball does not kick out, play field switches don't do anything, ball count unit doesn't advance, manually activating the scoring relays, does nothing etc.

Any Ideas?

TIA

#2 2 years ago

Here is the circuit. I suspect it is motor switch 4A. Because it is common to both the 1's and the 10's

Clean and gap each switch. (I recommend one at a time and test after each one).

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#3 2 years ago

Thanks, that’s the first place I looked. I’ll double check it though.

#4 2 years ago

Still doesn't explain why the game won't start (serve up the ball) when the reels are all at zero.
Does the ball count unit reset?

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from jrpinball:

Still doesn't explain why the game won't start (serve up the ball) when the reels are all at zero.
Does the ball count unit reset?

Yup, but I figured 1 step at a time.

Nope, ball count unit doesn't reset.

#6 2 years ago

OK, it's issue was indeed 4A switch. Now all reels reset to zero, then nothing happens. It almost seems like the machine is in tilt, except that the G.I. stay lit, where if I trip the tilt rely they do go out.

#7 2 years ago

Did the DS relay trip?
Is there a ball in the outhole?

Check to make sure the DS switch is clean and DS is tripping when the all of the score reels reach zero.
NOTE: It controls the flippers, ball count and ball return.

If you had the playfield up and the ball out, the flipper would work, but nothing else would , that maybe the issue - try hitting the out hole switch and then the trough switch.

If the flippers are not active look at lower image XB and TB switch. both relays should NOT be pulling and the switches should be closed.

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#8 2 years ago

Here is a better image. Thanks MarkG

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#9 2 years ago
Quoted from ArgosySK:

Did the DS relay trip?
Is there a ball in the outhole?
Check to make sure the DS switch is clean and DS is tripping when the all of the score reels reach zero.
NOTE: It controls the flippers, ball count and ball return.
If you had the playfield up and the ball out, the flipper would work, but nothing else would , that maybe the issue - try hitting the out hole switch and then the trough switch.
If the flippers are not active look at lower image XB and TB switch. both relays should NOT be pulling and the switches should be closed.

Thanks,

Unfortunately, I'm now away from home until the end of the week. I'll check the appropriate circuits when I'm back. Right now the only switches that work are the hole hoppers.

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from ArgosySK:

Did the DS relay trip?
Yes
Is there a ball in the outhole?

No, but I have the switch jumped.

Quoted from ArgosySK:

If you had the playfield up and the ball out, the flipper would work

No flippers

Quoted from ArgosySK:

If the flippers are not active look at lower image XB and TB switch. both relays should NOT be pulling and the switches should be closed

Haven't gotten to check those switches just yet.

#11 2 years ago

I would focus on the the 4 switches SB, TB, XB, and DS. I suspect one or more of them is not making good contact. Also check for broken solder joints/ loose wires on the same switches.

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from ArgosySK:

I would focus on the the 4 switches SB, TB, XB, and DS. I suspect one or more of them is not making good contact. Also check for broken solder joints/ loose wires on the same switches.

Standby.......

#13 2 years ago

Update:

The issue seems to lie within the DS relay.

If I jump the r-w wire to the red, the score motor continues to spin, but with the out hole switch closed, the out hole will kick out a ball and if I close the trough switch, the ball count unit will count up and the pf switches will score. Now, to figure out how to get that path to work without the score motor continuously spinning.

I also found the white wire that runs between the two DS relays missing a bit of insulation, and may have been causing a short, however correcting that issue hasn't changed anything.
IMG_5200 (resized).jpgIMG_5200 (resized).jpg

#14 2 years ago

AHHA! got is, sort of.

1st, I'm an idiot, of course the score motor kept running, I had the out hole switch jumped closed!

Now, everything works, but only if I jump those two switch lugs together. They are on two different switch stacks, I'd like to have the machine working without any hacks though.

Also, at the moment nothing scores, but I'm pretty sure I must have some playfield switches stuck closed at the moment.

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from DropTarget:

I must have some playfield switches stuck closed

This is the first thing to fix because otherwise you'll melt and destroy some coils.

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

This is the first thing to fix because otherwise you'll melt and destroy some coils.

He be savvy.

#17 2 years ago

But I love the smell of burnt insulation.

#18 2 years ago

Thanks Joe

#19 2 years ago

Ok, I was away this week and just got back to the game.

As it turns out there were two EOS switches, one on the 10's reel, one on the 100's reel.

Now, to start tweeting the rest of the machine. Lots of dirty and misadjusted switches/relays and score reels.....

Thanks all.

#20 2 years ago

Hi all,

Update:

After much rebuilding, cleaning and adjusting, I can now play a full game (and then some). The next problem that needs tackling is that after the last ball drains and the machine goes to game over, the game over relay pulls in, yet it will continue to kick out balls and score. The ball count unit appears to be adjusted correctly. Power doesn't shut off to the pf. If I tilt the game, the G.I. goes out, but points will still score, flippers will still work.

I'm wondering if this is related to the jumper I added to DS.

#21 2 years ago
Quoted from DropTarget:

I'm wondering if this is related to the jumper I added to DS.

Did you leave a non-factory jumper somewhere?

#22 2 years ago
Quoted from HowardR:

Did you leave a non-factory jumper somewhere?

Yes, across two switches on the DS relay, Red and R-W as circled above. The game won't start without the jumper.

By doing that, am I bypassing XB, TB, SB?

#23 2 years ago

AHHA! got it!

After closer examination, I notice two switches, one on the tilt relay and one on the game over relay, without any wires attached to them. I jumped those two blades, now the game starts and ends as it should.

Thanks for all the advice.

Now to move on to undoing the hacks that the previous people did to the coin door, the chute adjustments and the 2 coins per play relay. They added wires, spliced others and removed all of the door hardware. When I press the credit button, the score motor spins, but the reset bank doesn't pull in, however if I close the coin switch wires (blue and orange), the game starts as advertised.

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