For a NIB machine I'd highly recommend American Pinball. Their customer service is quite amazing. Take a look at the Houdini thread for examples of their helpfulness and how responsive they are to their customers. I have a Houdini and one of their code updates was on a Sunday. I downloaded it and noticed a minor issue. I contacted their programmer Josh, and he went into the office, fixed the code and had it uploaded to the website within a few hours. That's just one example that demonstrates their exceptional customer service. Couple that with great build quality and unique, fun rules and themes and you've got a winning combo.

HA, so true!

You know it's completely Homogenized when a "Getting out" thread with 7 "Top Tier" games dont even get a poke.

Eh... not sure I agree completely. When I bought my first game I didn't even know how to lift a playfield. I bought it working, but over the course of just a few months I learned how to shop out the entire playfield, repair the wood, replace switches, replace a playfield mount, solder a light board, Fix broken plastics, tune up the flippers, fix mechanical issues, repair loose wires... all from zero knowledge, and all completely unexpected. After that there was nothing that could go wrong with a game that I didn't already have a little experience in

I can appreciate the OP’s frustration. While I do my tinkering and maintenance and occasionally lean on friends with more experience, I’ve also had Stern and JJP support issues that were ignored until my distributor got involved.

On the bright side, one of the OP’s games is TNA. I’ve found Spooky quick to respond to support inquiries and the owner’s thread here on pinside is full of helpful people, including Scott Danesi. American Pinball game owners seem to have similar experiences.

Have to agree. Josh sent me numerous emails to help,when I had concerns about buying a USED HUO Houdini and even offered product support if any of the things I’d heard occurred. Great service and I wasn’t even an owner yet. Turned out the game was brilliant and no issues whatsoever.

sorry about issues. yes, every new game we buy no matter who makes it they have instant issues. rubber breaking, coil stops breaking, troughs not working, switches not working, boards failing. We Rent games and people always contact us asking if we sell games (mostly newbees). i always tell them its less of a headache just to rent from us as we take care of any issues/repairs setup and removal (all included, no extra fees). they get to enjoy the game and not worry about any headache. Its very worthy. so maybe consider that, if its an option in your area, assuming they will provide same service as we do.

After reading the last few posts here on their demonstrated commitment to service and some build quality posts on a different thread, I am going to seriously consider American Pinball’s next offering.

I’m an accountant. My first game was baby Pac-Man and I had to spend an hour on the phone with my uncle so he could talk me through how to change a light bulb in the game because I was so clueless and scared. We all have to start somewhere.

Then just do lots of research and you’ll eventually see that these manufacturers leave a lot to be desired in the customer service dept in most cases. So if you buy new, you’ll already know the risks.

Lots of new collectors don’t realize this especially when they dive head first into new games without much research. You’d think brand new games would be the best bet and be reliable, but unfortunately, they aren’t all the time, and in some cases you’re on your own to fix them.

When WoZ was a new game I drove a hour to play one. I loved it, but within 20 min the doors broke and the ball was stuck. Dave & Busters didn’t have a tech working to remove the ball. It ended up being a disappointment, and I haven’t been able to play one since.

One machine temporarily down is a bummer. Paying $10.5K plus tax plus shipping for a new pin is more of a bummer.

Great advice. I knew nothing, but learned just enough to know that I would need to learn certain things. Thankfully, most anything in pinball is fixable by a dope by me with enough research, thank God for pinside, haha.

I love mechanical things, and was willing to dive in since pinball folks are a wealth of knowledge and I knew I wouldnt be alone. Not trying to downplay issues, because things like playfield issues, etc absolutely SUCK, but everyone needs to be prepared to work on the mechanical things.

The absolute BEST thing about pinball in my opinion is even though the cost of entry can be massive, you can get almost full value or more in some cases when you decide you want another game. Good luck doing that with pretty much any other hobby.

Yep. People get PISSED in this hobby if they even lose 20% on a game they bought when they sell. That doesn’t exist in other hobbies that put wear and tear on the collectibles.

The feeling will pass. It usually does. I often get down and frustrated when my games aren’t working perfectly. I get the urge to sell the one acting up just so I don’t have to deal. But I realized that once you fix them, it’s like having a brand new game again. It’s really worth it to knuckle down and deal with your games. And if you can’t or won’t do it yourself you either need a handy friend or a local tech.

Otherwise, than yeah, maybe the hobby isn’t for you.

As everyone else said, this is part of the hobby: fixing and maintaining your machines. To me it is part of the thrill, part of the privilege of being a pin owner.

I 100% agree with this. If you are patient and do your due diligence, it is highly likely that you can find a like new, HUO game that’s been dialed in and will work like a Swiss watch for the entire time you own it. Or most of it.

But you need to be game for a repair. My first major game was a lightly played HUO LOTR that I bought from Jersey Jack. I expected it to work and it did for a long time. But then the VUK switch broke, and ultimately one of the switches on the paths of the dead. I am the least handy person ever. I’d never soldered before then - and 10 years later I still suck at it - but I figured it out and fixed both switches! One of them even had a diode (wtf is a diode?!?). It wasn’t the prettiest solder job, but it did the trick.

I’ve since made numerous repairs. I’ve rebuilt countless flippers, swapped out the Hulk mech on my AVLE and even did a full top tear down on a Fish Tails. I even tumbled all the hardware for that! And it was fun. But I’m not “project” guy or a “restore” guy in general. I like to buy “like new” games that won’t give headaches, so choose my games carefully, by getting to know the seller and asking questions. And I rarely have to do much...but in a multi game collection there’s always something.

Time to tap out and find something else that will give you enjoyment. Fuck pinball.

Pinballs are sorta like finnicky sports cars. Better to start out with a jalopy or two and fool around with it and gain some competence fixing things and work your way up years and years later to a garage full of cars that you can pretty much work on yourself. That's how I did it anyway. Start out with the garage full and you'll need a a mechanic on speed dial. But now there are places like this where you can ask all the experts questions on how to fix stuff which is great, there was no internet when I started.

You are basically in the heart of pinball land. I would meet a couple pinside guys buy them some beer and invite them over help work through some of your issues. This site can be crusty sometimes but 9 times out of 10 we would all reach out and help someone local.

this is what i did and it was probably the best thing I could have done to keep from getting frustrated down the road. I started with a project DEJP and then a shadow. The shadow was a royal pain but it taught me a lot.

I have a few too many machines... When one isn't working right and I'm having trouble solving the issue, I want to sell it. As soon as I fix it, its my new favorite all over and its never leaving. Its a viscous cycle.

I'm surprised nobody else said this but, why are you even dealing with the manufacturer? Why didn't you contact your distributor? That is what they are there for. If you want service, they are the ones that can get you squared away, and usually fast. If they are unwilling, you probably should have found one of the many willing distributors out there. People that bitch about brand x or y being "bad" all around is just like saying all Fords are bad because my headlight burnt out. Do you call up Ford headquarters and ask them to fix your car or do you take it back to the dealer?

If you are going to plop down 10k for a new machine, I would have probably looked at the issues JJP has had and how they have handled them in the past. Being on the outside at least (and we know pinside is good for bitching about little things), I would seriously question a new machine. I would either buy a known good used one, or refer to the first part of the post of, make sure you have a good distributor. All the manufacturers have issues with some machines out of the box. Shit happens. Just like buying a new car. I mean, I know of Houdini's who ate themselves. AP did the right thing and replaced it, but that doesn't mean they make a machine that isn't subject to the same issues (even though the fanboys would like you to think it). If you expect a homerun out of the box from any manufacturer 100% of the time, pinball isn't for you.

When people see my collection and they say wow, I would love to own a pinball machine. The first thing I say to them is you WILL have to repair it.... I lift the playfield and it often scares them off.

I am one of Crazy Levi's "Weirdos" I have been collecting since 1985, this was a time you HAD to fix everything yourself.. Hell, I had no idea for years you could buy NIB. When I bought the 400.00 HUO black knight and the 900.00 IJ was bought not knowing even if I could get parts!!!

That said, at 400.00 for a Black Knight, it was WORTH THE RISK. At 10,000.00 I expect to receive help from the manufacturer. As far as JJP is concerned, they have always helped me, sending me parts even if I was out of warranty.. Just understand you have to install that part yourself.

So, I have been collecting since 1985 I had A LOT of off years of not being interested, but it always comes back for me... for instance I dont play much in the summer (when life was normal) it was always a winter thing for me.

No doubt pins can be a headache. It is always frustrating having difficult problems that require tons of time and energy. The fun factor is long gone when you are taking everything apart again for the 3rd or 4th time trying to fix one stupid problem. It does not help when everyone says it just part of the hobby so learn to love it. Never heard of a manufacturer taking in a game to fix. I doubt they are setup to work on other games so can see why it's just sitting there. I would get it back and see if anyone local can help. That or just sell the game and downsize a bit.

I think you hit the nail on the head. There is an assumption that everyone in the hobby likes working on their games, but this isn't true at all. I enjoy playing them, but I've always kind of hated working on them, and I know other collectors who are like this as well. Obviously, I have learned to fix most things myself over the years simply because it's more cost effective than paying someone else to do it, but I still don't enjoy that aspect of the hobby.

Your experience would have been better buying restored older games from the mid 90's back as the build quality was better and the good restorers out here stand behind what they restore.

David
www.pinballdoctor.com
Co-Host of The Classic Pinball Podcast: https://podbay.fm/p/the-classic-pinball-podcast

Probably echoing things that have been said here and can found elsewhere.

Nothing wrong with just wanting to plug and play, which is why many people choose new games.

However, there is a misconception that NIB or fully restored means perfect. A little research shows numerous threads about how to tweak, modify or dial in a brand new game to make it play better. That is irony.

An alternate strategy is to buy games from collectors who have done the leg work to get the games playing awesome. This can be with a new game or even a game that 10, 20, 30, 40+ years old. For example, a lot of the EMS seem to bullet proof once they are gone through and working correctly. It is amazing how much of a workhorse some EMs are.

Some basic maintenance on games will always be required. A rubber will eventually break, a bulb burn out, ball needs replaced etc. Now unless you are a “It’s time for a new car when the change oil light comes on” type of person, any machine needs a little TLC.

The trick is to find games that are known to be more reliable without hyper-finicky gadgets. By default they all have moving parts, but none should be so delicate that they need constant adjustment. I don’t want to recommend games, or manufacturers, but with time, reading, playing numerous games, talking with friends, one can start to see what titles, brands and types of games are more reliable.

Anyway, long story short, it sounds like the hobby would be more enjoyable to you if you could just spend the money, didn’t have to mess with stuff as much and could just play. So, ditch the problem games and keep the ones that play more consistently and reliably. But keep in mind they will need some love, some day.

Enjoy, and remember pinball IS fun!

You cant find a repair guy in the Chicago area??

To the OP, if you're looking to offload games, this is the time to do it. The market is scortching hot!

very good point

There are so many good points made in this thread. This should be a "must read" for someone getting into the hobby. Being relatively new myself, it would have given me a better perspective.

I think it's great that so many of you guys love working on machines, and dove in on a project for your first game and that worked out for you.

I still believe - as a default - it's a general mistake, as most newbies just want to have a working game, and starting with one with many issues isn't going to work out for the majority of them.

My first game was Argosy, 100 percent working. Took about a week for it to become 95 percent working but I was able to figure out the issue (a simple switch problem) and I went from there, having learned how playfield switches work. If the game say, couldn't complete a reset sequence, or had major features not working, I would have been lost, and as upset and frustrated as the OP. All I wanted to do was play the pride of my apartment, my new pinball machine, and invite all my friends over to play it too.

Because in this age... people get an inkling to buy something and they go on the internet and search and find a distributor online and buy it. Not go to their local retailer and make a in person connection with the people they are buying from... and they expect like everything else today 'if it doesn't work, they'll just fix it or replace it'.

It's the age of e-commerce.. home buyers are expecting consumer electronics buying and owning experiences. (wrongly)

Because you're glossing over an important distinction... 'why they want to own a game'

Some people just want to be able to PLAY - and for those, buying a project will just be a frustration as their first game.

But many others are intrigued by not just the play, but the physical aspect of the game too. And for those, the game that might need some tinkering that you can do with simple tools is the door to learn and expand your abilities.

Some people appreciate things a lot more if they did it themselves... some just want a turn-key experience. What your motivations are for wanting to OWN a game... are a big part of that decision of which way to go... 'bullet proof' or 'get to know me project'

This isn't a universal decision - it has much to do with the person and their motivations too.

It’s easy. If you’re cool with paying others to fix your games, buy whatever and understand those expenses can add up quick and availability of techs may be lacking.

If you don’t want that, you’re going to have to learn. Best way to learn is right away before you’ve dumped tons of money into the hobby.

You make an incredible point. I'm shocked there arent tons of angry new buyers freaking out when pinballs don't go well. I think we should be thankful for distributors.

Maybe the NIB games are actually more reliable than we give them credit for?

I rarely get repair calls for new games, and when I do, they are almost always in public situations (offices, condo game rooms) where they likely get much more abuse.

Any people in your area you can make friends with that are owners? You might consider joining a local league when things open back up again. You'll meet a ton of cool people some of which have collections.

We have an EM guy, a guy that does board repair and a bunch of other collectors in our league that all work on their own machines. If someone needs help, we all pitch in to get them fixed up. And we drink their beer while doing it of course.

My wife and I got into the hobby almost 4 years ago. Before I got into this hobby I knew absolutely nothing about mechanical or electrical things. I was never handy and will admit that my Dad never taught me any type of "hands on" skills while growing up. At times in my adult life I would feel pretty pathetic. Like Chuckwurt, I am also an Accountant so my skills were not in the "getting your hands dirty" area. These past 4 years my tool collection for fixing and maintaining pins has exponentially grown to where I have obtained the experience and knowledge to get a pin up and running when it needs to. Keep your head up OP and get the tools you need to get the job done easier. Its amazing with the right tools you will have less headaches. I love working on our pins and pretty much am tinkering with them all the time. Sometimes enjoy just working on them than playing them. Like others have said, join a league in your area and get to know other pin people. The community down here is amazing and we all help each other. I am constantly in our slack group asking questions and helping others out. This is a community. Do not feel like you are alone in this. Do not look to the Manufactures for help. Like others have said its just not in their best interest right now. I understand for those things that are under warranty and what not but for everything else...learn to walk on your own feet. It is going to be very interesting once Covid starts easing up and the world gets back to semi normal. Just like the OP, there is a TON of new people joining this hobby and getting machines who have no idea what they are getting into and will face the same frustrations as the OP. Wonder if the new people will just get sick of it and dump them.

I was getting out of pinball but then decided to hire a divorce lawyer.

Call Lloyd,Easy to chat up-SS Billiards,
A legend pinball master repairman,may still be "A tech guy for JJP" Front forum page-top right corner....a link to "Ask Lloyd"
LTG helps us old pinball veterans all so much over the years !!

I basically got rid of most of my games because I work a lot and didn't have the time to learn to fix or to fix my pins period. I had a great tech in the beginning, around 1999 till around 2012 ish??, can't remember, who was very honest and fair but he got into an accident with a Walmart truck I believe. As part of the settlement he couldn't work anymore. That was it for me. Went from around 33 A List Bally, Williams, Stern, and JJP down to two, a restored original MB and a Tron LE. I am good with it though. Having games that didn't work right was annoying to me. I can always play them in a well maintained arcade somewhere. Ocean City, NJ has a great lineup of pins in great working order. I hope that isn't the place on the boardwalk that burnt down a month ago.

Along the lines of your comment, I was thinking of why not have an experienced Pinside buddy that live nears to the OP's house stop over for a beer, and maybe take a look at the pin? Should be a bunch of people willing, given it's Chicago. Maybe the OP doesn't socialize with local Pinsiders?

In our smaller community, I've met maybe 5-6 local Pinsiders and have worked on some of their pins just to help out (aka: free) a Pinside friend. Nothing serious, just fixing the typical issues that crop up.

A good rib eye steak dinner with a big baked potato with lots of butter always incites me to help out.

Brian you are the pinball Saint in this area! Don't know what we would do without you.

If my wife knew about a free steak dinner, she'd learn how to fix pins!

That is awesome but here in NJ, most repairmen are out for blood. Had a guy fix my dad's jukebox and charged 300+ bucks for maybe an hour of work and it broke down less than a month later. He wouldn't come back to look at it without some huge service call bill. To make it more frustrating, the work he did on the first service call included regular preventative maintenance. It just isn't worth having pins and jukeboxes at those repair prices. My dad sold his V200 that I bought for him. It was fun while it lasted.

I don't like just to repair, I like to help others learn to take care of their games. I give out homework to the owners to do in hopes they do the work.

If anything is making me lose interest in pinball its the insane prices these days.

OP, i’ve been in the same boat. I acquired my games quickly looks like you have 7 and I only have 5 but I knew nothing about fixing them but probably like the tinkering aspect more than playing. Only had one new in box Stern but I never had any problems with that. I’ve bought and sold etc. That’s why I’m here on a daily basis to educate myself and ask questions when needed the community has been invaluable but I do sympathize with having to spend 10,500 on a game and then having something not be perfect but I get it now even moving them 100 feet, things shift loosen etc. Hell the other day I was playing my Lebowski after it traveled 800 miles in a van and I heard a screw fall onto the bottom of the cabinet while I was playing. Most everything for me so far has been an easy fix but again I have my local community and Pinside at my disposal if needed.