(Topic ID: 183714)

Starting a "Boutique" Pinball Machine Company:

By Orko

7 years ago


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  • 49 posts
  • 26 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by Rarehero
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    #1 7 years ago

    After reading through countless threads of buyers being ripped off, the seller never having proper licensing etc., Is it possible for an individual with a dream to bring to market (properly) a new pinball machine?

    #2 7 years ago
    Quoted from Orko:

    After reading through countless threads of buyers being ripped off, the seller never having proper licensing etc., Is it possible for an individual with a dream to bring to market (properly) a new pinball machine?

    Figure out the multimillion dollar question: Can you manufacture?
    And the other question: Can you manufacture without taking preorder money?

    Then maybe

    #3 7 years ago

    A dream, and very deep pockets.

    #4 7 years ago

    Use my idea lol

    #5 7 years ago

    I have the idea (vision) and do have access to being able to manufacture in smaller quantities. Maybe a run of 500 machines? But money and deep pockets I do not have.

    I've toyed with th idea of building a prototype and acquiring proper licensing and just see what happens.

    #6 7 years ago

    See: Spooky Pinball.

    #7 7 years ago

    quietly build a proto type until it flips nicely along with good set of rules, dots, sounds and nice art then work out your BOM, enquire about the license showing your sample and then launch to the world your finished product. Start with a small run and build up your run sizes.

    #8 7 years ago

    Under the right circumstances, anything is possible.

    I think the most viable path has been the one that homepin has been taking. It's a bit of a slower path, but seems to be a venture that is considerably more stable than most of the other manufacturers that have come along and less likely to bring someone to the brink of bankruptcy.

    Instead of building a game right out of the gate, spending a giant sum of money at the start, and having no revenue for months or years before the first game ships, they have been building up to it by producing parts and smaller games first. This way, it establishes a revenue stream first, rather than taking a huge gamble from the beginning and risk losing everything if the production of the game is a failure.

    If I were to start up a manufacturing company, I would start producing reproduction parts first, and start selling those to build up funds. Then, since a lot of the same equipment would be used to also help build games, you wouldn't have to deal with buying and setting everything up all at once. Expansion would happen a little bit at a time.

    Then, once you're ready to produce an entire game, your supply chain would have already been established and most of the kinks would have been worked out.

    #9 7 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Under the right circumstances, anything is possible.
    I think the most viable path has been the one that homepin has been taking. It's a bit of a slower path, but seems to be a venture that is considerably more stable than most of the other manufacturers that have come along and less likely to bring someone to the brink of bankruptcy.
    Instead of building a game right out of the gate, spending a giant sum of money at the start, and having no revenue for months or years before the first game ships, they have been building up to it by producing parts and smaller games first. This way, it establishes a revenue stream first, rather than taking a huge gamble from the beginning and risk losing everything if the production of the game is a failure.
    If I were to start up a manufacturing company, I would start producing reproduction parts first, and start selling those to build up funds. Then, since a lot of the same equipment would be used to also help build games, you wouldn't have to deal with buying and setting everything up all at once. Expansion would happen a little bit at a time.
    Then, once you're ready to produce an entire game, your supply chain would have already been established and most of the kinks would have been worked out.

    This Kal-El is wise

    #10 7 years ago

    Do a GoFund me for it being "it is what it is." If you list it as, hey, ima try this and see how it pans out, then you're good to go with what money you receive. If it blows? Well, you can ship what you got to the donators for scrap parts they may be able to use.

    #11 7 years ago
    Quoted from Jeremy8419:

    Do a GoFund me for it being "it is what it is." If you list it as, hey, ima try this and see how it pans out, then you're good to go with what money you receive. If it blows? Well, you can ship what you got to the donators for scrap parts they may be able to use.

    The crowd funding / preorder approach hasn't worked out too well so far...

    #12 7 years ago

    Some very wise advice. I think I'm going to go for broke and build myself a prototype. Maybe reach out to some people with the skill/know how whom could help me out with programming etc, but I believe that if I can build a prototype that people enjoy, want to replay, maybe I'm onto something. If not, it's still fun that I would follow a dream of mine.

    I don't want to do any "Go fund me" or similar type stuff. I would want to build confidence that a working machine can be built, that said machine is fun, and that licensing could be accomplished.

    Question, do I have to worry about copyright law during the build of a prototype? It wouldn't be for sale and only playable at shows for free. I'd love more information regarding that.

    #13 7 years ago
    Quoted from Orko:

    Some very wise advice. I think I'm going to go for broke and build myself a prototype. Maybe reach out to some people with the skill/know how whom could help me out with programming etc, but I believe that if I can build a prototype that people enjoy, want to replay, maybe I'm onto something. If not, it's still fun that I would follow a dream of mine.
    I don't want to do any "Go fund me" or similar type stuff. I would want to build confidence that a working machine can be built, that said machine is fun, and that licensing could be accomplished.
    Question, do I have to worry about copyright law during the build of a prototype? It wouldn't be for sale and only playable at shows for free. I'd love more information regarding that.

    A one-off machine in the USA falls under fair-use.

    #14 7 years ago

    Also *boutique*

    #15 7 years ago

    Don't let my English major wife, who is also a teacher know...lol I also expect to have an error written on my board somewhere to compete with the likes of Stern.

    #16 7 years ago
    Quoted from Orko:

    Question, do I have to worry about copyright law during the build of a prototype? It wouldn't be for sale and only playable at shows for free. I'd love more information regarding that.

    It depends on what you want to do. If you plan on using someone's IP (like a movie) for your theme and sell it eventually - you started by asking about how to create a pinball company - you would be better off talking to the IP owner before taking your machine on the road. If you really have no plans to sell it, you should be OK, but I wouldn't have a business plan based on aquiring the license after you build the machine (see: SkitB).

    #17 7 years ago
    Quoted from AllBallBearings:

    It depends on what you want to do. If you plan on using someone's IP (like a movie) for your theme and sell it eventually - you started by asking about how to create a pinball company - you would be better off talking to the IP owner before taking your machine on the road. If you really have no plans to sell it, you should be OK, but I wouldn't have a business plan based on aquiring the license after you build the machine (see: SkitB).

    Very true...I would want to make sure that I follow all protocols.

    #18 7 years ago

    You are now required to name your company "Botique Pinball."

    #19 7 years ago
    Quoted from Orko:

    Question, do I have to worry about copyright law during the build of a prototype? It wouldn't be for sale and only playable at shows for free. I'd love more information regarding that.

    Quoted from chadderack:

    A one-off machine in the USA falls under fair-use.

    Yes, building a prototype to try to show the license holder what you can do should not cause any problems. Let me know what theme you're going for and, if it's a movie theme, I'll check my blu-ray cases for licensing information.

    #20 7 years ago

    It is possible, and as others have posted, build a prototype to test your skills

    Licencing is a complex field. It would be Easter to make a nonlicenced game

    #21 7 years ago
    Quoted from Orko:

    Question, do I have to worry about copyright law during the build of a prototype? It wouldn't be for sale and only playable at shows for free. I'd love more information regarding that.

    I'd check into playable at shows. It may be on free play, but people pay to get into the show. So organizers may be accountable for what is at their show.

    LTG : )

    #22 7 years ago

    Or do what Stern did and cobble a game from parts of existing games, retheme (unlicensed) and sell enough to make game #2.

    #23 7 years ago

    I sent jaywakai a PM with my theme. I've got an idea for my pinball company, but it would probably behoove me to TM it and then create an LLC.

    #24 7 years ago

    We can discuss some ideas tonight if you'd like. I'm free after 7:30pm Central.

    #25 7 years ago
    Quoted from Orko:

    Some very wise advice. I think I'm going to go for broke and build myself a prototype. Maybe reach out to some people with the skill/know how whom could help me out with programming etc, but I believe that if I can build a prototype that people enjoy, want to replay, maybe I'm onto something. If not, it's still fun that I would follow a dream of mine.
    I don't want to do any "Go fund me" or similar type stuff. I would want to build confidence that a working machine can be built, that said machine is fun, and that licensing could be accomplished.
    Question, do I have to worry about copyright law during the build of a prototype? It wouldn't be for sale and only playable at shows for free. I'd love more information regarding that.

    Not a GoFund me for the full amount... just one that's like "hey, I'm accepting donations for anyone who wants to help me get started." Heck, $200 is $200...

    #26 7 years ago

    Think seriously of your budget estimate. Now double it. Now multiply that number by ten and that is how much free cash you need to do this. You may not use all that cash, but you want to make sure you will never be short. Also, if you are doing a run of 150-300 machines, assume you will still be in the red at the end of it.
    Somewhere deep into your second run you might get your money back.
    But hey, it's not all about money..
    Also assume most of your house will be taken over. You will have more than a few relationship-testing events with your partner. You may become somewhat of a recluse.
    But in the end, it's all about bringing cool games to the community..
    Your support line will never stop ringing. Users will not follow instructions and may injure themselves. Many, many parts will be sent out on your dime to cover damage caused by carelessness.
    But what else ya gonna do?

    #27 7 years ago

    You can probably "scratch the itch" like a lot of people do and create a one off custom machine. Have fun with a garage project, show it off at shows, but don't bother trying to take the next leap trying to make more of them.

    #28 7 years ago
    Quoted from TimeBandit:

    Think seriously of your budget estimate. Now double it. Now multiply that number by ten and that is how much free cash you need to do this. You may not use all that cash, but you want to make sure you will never be short. Also, if you are doing a run of 150-300 machines, assume you will still be in the red at the end of it.
    Somewhere deep into your second run you might get your money back.
    But hey, it's not all about money..
    Also assume most of your house will be taken over. You will have more than a few relationship-testing events with your partner. You may become somewhat of a recluse.
    But in the end, it's all about bringing cool games to the community..
    Your support line will never stop ringing. Users will not follow instructions and may injure themselves. Many, many parts will be sent out on your dime to cover damage caused by carelessness.
    But what else ya gonna do?

    Honestly, that was some harsh truth in your comment. But it was definitely needed. I think I'm still going to go and try to build a prototype machine, and see where it takes me. Worst case scenario, I'll have a conversation piece in my pinball lineup. But if the stars, moon and galaxy lineup, you'll never know what you didn't try.

    #29 7 years ago

    Becoming a pinball manufacturer is a romantic idea. I mean, who wouldn't want to turn their passion into a career?

    However, it has to be a very painful industry to be in, possibly other than Stern. Pinball machines are complex, much more so than anyone expects. Just look at the companies that have made a go for it recently. Spooky's has to be the only one that's got it figured out. JJP is in the game, but they've been in business seven years now and have only shipped two games. All of the others have failed or appear to be suffering.

    #30 7 years ago
    Quoted from Orko:

    if the stars, moon and galaxy lineup, you'll never know what you didn't try.

    You heard it here folks, he's making a Stern Stars, Williams Lunar Shot, and Stern Galaxy, mashup pin!

    #31 7 years ago
    Quoted from ectobar:

    You heard it here folks, he's making a Stern Stars, Williams Lunar Shot, and Stern Galaxy, mashup pin!

    ...

    #32 7 years ago

    Confirmed!

    I want to play it! Never played Lunar Shot, but I like the other 2.

    #33 7 years ago
    Quoted from Orko:

    But if the stars, moon and galaxy lineup, you'll never know what you didn't try

    And that trumps everything. Without risk we get nothing.

    #35 7 years ago
    Quoted from chadderack:

    Figure out the multimillion dollar question: Can you manufacture?
    And the other question: Can you manufacture without taking preorder money?
    Then maybe

    Million dollar question is more like: Do you have a reliable source for ALL of your parts at a reasonable price?

    #36 7 years ago
    Quoted from Orko:

    After reading through countless threads of buyers being ripped off, the seller never having proper licensing etc., Is it possible for an individual with a dream to bring to market (properly) a new pinball machine?

    No. There are tons of threads of people talking aboot building homebrews or building machines and then nothing every happens; Because it's really frikkin hard.

    #37 7 years ago

    I second what Frolic said. Would also build skills.

    #38 7 years ago
    Quoted from Allibaster:

    Just look at the companies that have made a go for it recently. Spooky's has to be the only one that's got it figured out. JJP is in the game, but they've been in business seven years now and have only shipped two games. All of the others have failed or appear to be suffering.

    Homepin are not suffering. Things are travelling along well for them and production is starting soon on TAG. I have it on good authority there are some good things coming down the pipeline for Homepin. Like ForceFlow said it has been a long road for them, but things are ramping up now.

    #39 7 years ago

    Perhaps, it depends upon what the individual considers "a success?" Spooky seems very grounded in ambitions, which is probably why he is doing well.

    #40 7 years ago
    Quoted from PinSinner:

    Homepin are not suffering. Things are travelling along well for them and production is starting soon on TAG. I have it on good authority there are some good things coming down the pipeline for Homepin. Like ForceFlow said it has been a long road for them, but things are ramping up now.

    Well, I certainly hope them the best. I don't know much about them other than them building everything themselves. That might be what it takes to be successful.

    Looking forward to checking them out after they start shipping games...

    #41 7 years ago

    It really is about time we had a boutique themed pinball game.

    th (resized).jpgth (resized).jpg

    #42 7 years ago

    You may want to consider building a game for Multimorphic's P3 multi-game pinball platform, most of the work is already done, you just need to design the game. The have a development kit for third-party developers.

    #43 7 years ago
    Quoted from solarvalue:

    You may want to consider building a game for Multimorphic's P3 multi-game pinball platform, most of the work is already done, you just need to design the game. The have a development kit for third-party developers.

    That I've already done. But thank you for the suggestion.

    #44 7 years ago

    http://pinballmakers.com/

    http://pindev.slack.com/

    Learn about making pinball before you start dreaming of building one.

    #45 7 years ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    http://pinballmakers.com/
    http://pindev.slack.com/
    Learn about making pinball before you start dreaming of building one.

    What is this slack thing, first I've heard of that one? And who gives access?

    p.s. sorry for the hijack

    #46 7 years ago
    Quoted from Orko:

    After reading through countless threads of buyers being ripped off, the seller never having proper licensing etc., Is it possible for an individual with a dream to bring to market (properly) a new pinball machine?

    Sure, if you want to waste 5 years of your life, go broke, piss off an entire hobbyist community, and go to court! Go for it! Pinball is easy!

    #47 7 years ago
    Quoted from Rarehero:

    Sure, if you want to waste 5 years of your life, go broke, piss off an entire hobbyist community, and go to court! Go for it! Pinball is easy!

    I am glad Charlie from Spooky didn't think like that. It might not be easy but it is not impossible.

    #48 7 years ago
    Quoted from Orko:

    That I've already done. But thank you for the suggestion.

    You've already considered it or already built a game on the platform? You didn't make the baseball theme did you?

    I'd keep your dream in mind while you spend the next 3 - 5+ years working on a prototype... if you manage to create something cool that works, looks, sounds, and plays good and at that point want to spend another number of years trying to work out manufacture and financing.. otherwise 1-offs are awesome and such a giant accomplishment in and of themselves. Spooky can manufacture but financing is probably your biggest issue beyond actually building a machine. Those are 2 huge mountains.

    #49 7 years ago
    Quoted from Pinballlew:

    I am glad Charlie from Spooky didn't think like that. It might not be easy but it is not impossible.

    True, Charlie's a good dude and has his ducks in a row - still, when he started, it was a different time when people were mad rushing to buy anything that could be "the next BBB, BIBLE, or TRON LE". Those rare high-flip games were the catalyst for all the new pin companies that sprouted up. We're headed into different times now - hopefully Spooky can remain successful due to their established reputation ....but anyone new starting from scratch now? I dunno, man! If you have deep pockets and manufacturing connections - maybe? I just think it'd be a huge pain in the ass at this point.

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