(Topic ID: 242160)

Start-up problem with 1976 Gottlieb Card Whiz


By paulace

11 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 16 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 months ago by paulace
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There have been 8 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

I relay 3 (resized).jpg
I relay 2 (resized).jpg
I relay 1 (resized).jpg
Card Whiz.jpg
motor switch 1B.jpg
U relay path.JPG
AX and AX reset.JPG
Card Whiz Start Up Sequence (resized).jpg

#1 11 months ago

Hi folks - I'm getting a "Card Whiz" working again after years of sitting (who knows where), and I've cleaned and de-gunked the steppers, drop target assemblies and score reels. There was some funky re-wiring on the coin door, so that no power was going to the replay button, but that's sorted out and after a few more troubleshooting sessions, the game almost starts. When I press the button on the coin door to start a game, it goes through the start-up procedure (which I'm a little unclear about) - the score reels zero out nicely, and then the AX relay, instead of disengaging, stays engaged and the score motor just keeps churning.

I'm sure at some point, something is supposed to de-energize the AX relay, but I can't figure out what that is by looking at the schematic.

Other than the coin door, all wiring looks original and un-messed with. I've been going through all the relays and score motor switches, cleaning and gapping them, hoping to stumble onto the culprit, but so far, no luck. Any folks out there with more experience have any ideas? Howard R....you out there? I've used your jumper troubleshooting method to great effect so far, but this one's got me scratching my head.

#2 11 months ago

I don't have a schematic, but if there is a Z1 relay, check that. Also the AX is tricky to adjust.

#3 11 months ago

Thanks D-Gottlieb - there is no Z1 relay on this machine, and yes, those AX relays are a bit touchy! But I have magnifying goggles, 800 grit sandpaper, a switch bender and patience, thankfully. That whole startup process confuses me a bit...

#4 11 months ago

Wasn't sure from your post if you had the startup sequence or not so I am attaching it. I had trouble with the AX nad BX relays. It took several tries before I got them adjusted correctly. I also had one switch (B1) on the score motor that had too large of gap. It checked out ok when using a DMM, but as soon as I decreased the gap things went much better. If you aren't aware of it visit (http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm) and/or (http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair)

Card Whiz Start Up Sequence (resized).jpg
#5 11 months ago

Thanks, Bleacher. I do have the instructions and schematic, but even after reading about the starting procedure several times, I'm still kind of fuzzy on exactly what's happening. But that sentence:

"When P5A" on the player unit closes, "AX" and "BX" relays reset through motor 2C and switches on "U", "O", and "R" relays. The reset cycle is now complete."

looks promising. I'll start looking at those switches.

Thanks!

#6 11 months ago

I noticed just now that the "U" relay stays energized while the "AX" relay is energized. I don't think that's supposed to happen according to the operating instructions which say that "Q" and "U" relays de-energize when "AX" relay operates. And sure enough, if I pull the plastic piece up (to the de-energized position) while the score motor is spinning, it stops. So now why isn't the "U" relay de-energizing when the "AX" energizes?

Back to the schematic...

#7 11 months ago

Check the player unit next.

#8 11 months ago

Whew...found it! According to the operating instructions, Q and U relays should de-energize when the AX relay operates. That wasn't happening - U was staying powered on, so there was never a path to the AX reset relay, therefore the AX stayed on and the score motor just kept turning. So I looked at the U relay circuit path to find out why it was staying powered on. The 5 parallel switches (H, R, L, M, and N) all checked out OK with a meter and visual inspection. The U switch is obviously its own lock-on switch, the AX switch should have been open since the AX relay was energized, which left the Motor 1B switch. I had inspected that before, but looked at the solder tabs this time, and found that the tab with the black/white wire was touching the double blue wires next to it from another switch, which were connected to the other side of the 1B switch, so effectively it was shorted and couldn't open. It's annoying how you can look at something 4 or 5 times and miss something obvious like that.
Well, I bent the tabs apart and everything worked like a charm!

Thanks, as always for all the help and suggestions!
AX and AX reset.JPGU relay path.JPGmotor switch 1B.jpgCard Whiz.jpg

#9 10 months ago

Good job. To own an em is to fix an em.

#10 10 months ago

True dat...it's so worth it when you're successful, though! And this forum is a great resource...lots of helpful and knowledgeable people here. I learn tons every time I have a problem. I'm very grateful that people are willing to share their knowledge and experience so I can help keep these machines going a little longer.

#11 10 months ago

I also just picked up a Card Whiz. Everything works on it except the bonus count. There is a KX? relay on the bottom of the playfield with a sort of stepper mechanism. It’s having a hard time because the white gear in the center looks worn out. Are these available for sale?

#12 10 months ago

Worn out or just dirty? PBR has some parts for this (http://www.pbresource.com/relay-GTB.html) but it looks like the ratchet is out of stock. More often these small steppers need a good cleaning since the tolerances are so tight. If you look for "AS relay" in this forum you'll probably find lots of past discussion.

/Mark

#13 10 months ago

Call Steve @ PBR, his site says it's out of stock but he may have them, purchased one not to long ago.

#14 10 months ago

It's worth the time to take that little stepper apart and clean it all out well. It doesn't take that long, and the bonus feature isn't going to work if that thing's not moving freely. Make sure to clean both the circuit boards and the little fingers on each side that rotate on the circuit board. That little white spring-loaded piece that catches the gear's teeth has to be able to move freely as well. It'll save you many headaches later.

It's a great game! I read that Ed Krynski chose that as his favorite game design that he had done....out of over 200 games!

#15 10 months ago

Thanks for the input everyone! It’s actually the “I” relay that is in question. So a local guy actually had a spare gear in a relay from a scrapped machine. Stupid me takes it apart, and not thinking clearly, I didn’t take any pictures of the black cogs or which way they went back on. Duh!

Now the bonus doesn’t go through the entire sequence. Before the bonus would go through the entire sequence from 1 to 5 thousand, and not score any bonus that was lit. Now it scores what seems to be only the three thousand only if it’s lit, and kicks out the next ball.

#16 10 months ago

See if these images will help you get it at least put together correctly. In the third photo, the stepper rotates counter-clockwise as you're looking at it, so just make sure the black gear rotates with the sloped side of the gear leading and contacting the underside of the switches first.

I relay 1 (resized).jpgI relay 2 (resized).jpgI relay 3 (resized).jpg
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