(Topic ID: 298509)

Start sequence

By dsquared_314

2 years ago


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  • 15 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by baldtwit
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#1 2 years ago

Got everything working; disassembled; cleaned; replaced kicking rubber coil

Re assembled and does not do the full start sequence. Coin works, start button works, motor starts but only revolves a fraction, score reels do not reset. I read in the operation after S relay, AX relay actuates, and U relay resets coin something. I do not see U coil firing, followed schematic and still nothing. I manually press Z1 and Z2 and nothing happens. I don't know where to go. I'm more frustrated that I spend hours getting everything to work 95% and I dis assemble/re assemble and it's messed up again. Part of me just wants to take a sledge hammer to it. Please, may an expert give a rookie some guidance or plan of attack

#2 2 years ago

There is a switch on the motor that keeps the motor running. If you have a schematic is should be listed with all of the other relays.
I suspect that that it is dirty or the gap needs to be adjusted.

I don't have your machine so this is an example. M is the motor and Motor 1C is the switch that keeps it running.

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#3 2 years ago

The U relay is the First Ball relay which is usually activated when you score 10 or 100 points.

This switch on the AX relay should keep the motor running until reset is complete.

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#4 2 years ago
Quoted from dsquared_314:

Part of me just wants to take a sledge hammer to it.

That’s how I feel sometimes about my 300, and I know what I’m doing. Gottlieb’s are a B to work on.

#5 2 years ago

AX switch is open, motor 1C is open and same outcome, the motor does not finish it's start sequence, it stops after a quarter turn. Start relay (S) is firing, bonus unit is firing, replay button (V) is firing. Score reels are not resetting, dont hear player unit moving

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#6 2 years ago

If the AX coil on the Reset Control interlock relay (AX and AXR) doesn't actuate,
Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-big-shot-repair#post-6305153
http://www.planetimming.com/Pinball/troubleshooting/EM%20Troubleshooting.pdf
http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#features
Example of a pinsider actually doing this https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/red-baron-tech-question#post-5858156

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#7 2 years ago

Alligator clip jumper seems extreme and I don’t want to go with that solution. Everything was working fine until I disassembled and reassembled. I’ll look at reset control interlock relay after work.

Where else can I look. The score reels are not resetting. Where on the schematic does it show how to fix that. Where else on the schdematic does it show the motor going thru proper sequence

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from dsquared_314:

Alligator clip jumper

Would be the best way to troubleshoot within the circuit.

#9 2 years ago

Ok. I see the picture posted with red line and ax added but what wire do I connect on the ax relay to what wire on what other relay?

#10 2 years ago

AX has to energize and latch in order to perform the startup sequence. The score motor should keep running til the AX reset coil fires. HowardR has shown you the path of the switches that must work in order to make AX energize. The jumper wire technique is an efficient way to narrrow down the switch that isn’t doing its job. It could be as simple as a dirty or misadjusted switch, or a bent solder tab, or broken wire. The good news is you have the startup sequence and schematic.

Dave

#11 2 years ago

All this information is great, I’ve looked at the shared links but still do not know what switch I need to run a jumper wire to.

There is a red line with ax added to it. There are atleast 8 switches 16 wires on ax relay. Is it the gr+red wire on ax relay then connect to corresponding wires on the switches that are highlighted in red

#12 2 years ago
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#13 2 years ago
Quoted from dsquared_314:

All this information is great, I’ve looked at the shared links but still do not know what switch I need to run a jumper wire to.
There is a red line with ax added to it. There are atleast 8 switches 16 wires on ax relay. Is it the gr+red wire on ax relay then connect to corresponding wires on the switches that are highlighted in red

The highlighted path includes the AX coil (no switches on AX), a switch on the U relay, a switch on the S relay and the 1D switch on the score motor. You could inspect each of those or use a jumper wire to jump each of those to fin switch one is not completing the circuit to energize AX. You may visually spot the problem as you’re looking at each location, or find a mangled switch, etc.

The wire color tells you which switch you need to look at. Sometimes the colors are faded which does make it more difficult.

Dave

#14 2 years ago

check U S and 1D. match the schematic. What else does pinside community have as a suggestion? When S relay is firing AX fires as well but stops as the motor only rotates 1/4. Where on the schematic does it tell me how to make the reels reset?

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from dsquared_314:

When S relay is firing AX fires as well but stops as the motor only rotates 1/4.

not sure how to interpret that, but AX is an interlock relay with a trip and latch coil. There should be a label on it to say which coil does what, but the AX reset/latch coil has a GR+RED wire on one lug. You want the other coil to power when the S relay powers (and motor 1D switch closes)

when the S relay powers, AX should trip and it doesn't get reset/latched until the reset sequence is done. As howard said in post #3, when the AX trips, a switch on it keeps the score motor powered.

if the AX is tripped and the score motor isn't running, check the AX switch with the YEL+RED and RED-WH wires.

you're late step 4 or early step 5 in the "operating instructions" sequence. If the score motor isn't running tho, you're not getting any further.

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