Gotcha, thanks.

Very nice on the change log!
i'm having problems with downloads from Github. what are the files that were updated, so i can only bring those down?

also on the super skill shot, that's great, thank you! what did you do for sound? maybe 1000pt chime alternating with knocker! ha!!
thanks!

Dick on the LEDs versus regular bulbs, that really should be an option in the settings... Like default=0 (regular bulbs), option=1 is LED bulbs.

I have followed the instructions, i have successfully compiled/uploaded to Nano, Double/triple checked my bread board setup including tracing pins to Arduino pins and i cant seem to get machine to boot.
I'm using a working sb100 board with 6800 removed and with wire attached to pin 4 where 6800 chip goes.
Am i missing something here....do i have to do something special after uploading Arduino?
I was also curious each time i upload sketch to Arduino do have to erase old sketch or does this do it automatically ?.I'm fairly new to Arduino boards.
Does it matter if original roms are installed in board as well or do they need to be removed?

Dick don't forget to update your 'single sheet' document...

Two big possibilities for it not booting are the 34 pin connector either having cold solder joints or being oxidized from never having anything in it. The chip socket connection also seems to be a bit finicky in mine.

Here’s a couple pics

0B4F4A41-C653-4C63-A56B-B0E6DBF8304E (resized).jpeg

1AF76C42-2BE8-4EF9-AEC2-3E2BD4A21F52 (resized).jpeg

Ahh ok I’ll check out later and let you know

Ok all working here now.
Needed the grounds unfortunately I just followed the pictures instead of reading the list of Pin outs you had..... my bad
Thanks fir the help

Okay in settings it is kind of strange as it shows this for 16, only gives the option of 0,1 for 17 and 0,1 for 18

B52D453A-05A1-4549-B553-502054FF9D87 (resized).jpeg

Yep that is much better!!!

Okay here is some feedback coming from a top 60 competitive player.

The game should always start with a 1,000 bonus that is a stable in all solid state games on this era.

I can’t get the wizard mode to work right or maybe I am just testing wrong, I have setting 29 at 10k when I complete all Stars mode (very difficult by the way without glass off) when I hit a Star when everything is flashing it is only gives 400, it would be nice to have a countdown on credit for the countdown of wizard mode as I heard it end but had no idea when it was going to end.

Be cool to see this be a Stars only wizard mode where Stars are worth 50k (adjustable) and the spinner worth 3k a spin that way a player has a risk reward to go for a Star or plays it safe with spinner. Again on my machine this is pretty well impossible but man very valuable if you get there.

The super pop is a cool feature you might want to go:

Level 1: 0-14 - 100 points
Level 2: 15-29 - 250 points
Level 3: 30-44 - 500 points
Level 4: 45-60 - 1000 points

That way at least something is attainable quite the grind to get to 60 pops with one pop bumper.

I have tried the hurry up spinner and don’t really get it the sequence to get there is great but really want is the purpose of the hurry up as you really don’t score points for it you just reset the drops. No biggie as it is hard to do I was just expecting something else.

You have the ability to go to 55k now, I suggest you use it, make the Stars level 1 worth 1k, Level 2 2k and Level 3k. The designers didn’t do this because they couldn’t go to 55k you will never have a game last that long to max bonus and really that is a big deal on this era so make it so people can try to get there.

I am super impressed man, you got mad skills my friend, I will try to get the stream going on Saturday night for it as I have a few friends coming down for my birthday.

These are just some suggestions just off the cuff to try to improve the game from a competitive standpoint and to try to get players to try to progress through the game as most will just try to grind out drops and spinners if there isn’t a risk reward factor for them.

Awesome job and thank you for all your hard work totally amazed with all you hav been able to do!!!

Oh okay the pops was the missing factor, gotcha. Well you made a wizard mode that is as difficult as some of the hardest machines out there. Love it!!! So to throw people a bone and it is still hard is to do a what you could do a Stars Mini Wizard Mode, like I described. The way the game is right now the bonus increase to 19k is pretty tough to achieve so while is it nice to have the ability to get to 55k no one is ever able to reach that far, at least on my version. If I can get stream going we will and will post the link on here for you.

Again awesome work really appreciate all of the blood, sweat and tears you have put into it!!!

Dick i really can't stress enough how you need a "song" for major achievements using the chimes *and* knocker. why knocker? because this goal song need to stick out! and since the only way you really know you hit major achievements (like the wizard mode, skill shot, stars, etc) is, well NOTHING! there's no voice or other things (maybe lights), you have to know you score *before* you hit the goal, and then your score *after* the goal, and do some quick math! it's not that easy when you're playing.

i mean if you had your wav card installed Ok fine i guess you don't need that stuff. But it looks like just you and one (maybe two?) other people have done the wav card install. The rest of us are using the chimes...

The only other way to do this would be using flashers. I suggested this before, and it would be really easy to implement. If you didn't want to mess with the playfield a few flashers could be installed in the backbox insert panel without much work. 12 volts flashers can run off the 43 volts coil voltage, just have to load it down with a 10ohm 10watt resistor. Williams did it this way with their early games (Flash for example). Then run a couple wires to the solenoid driver board to unused transistor(s). Of course you would have to program the 'flash'. and if someone didn't install the flashers, no big deal, doesn't change anything.

If it were me, i would use probably two unused transistors. Heck you could even go three (i'm betting there's three unused drivers.) I guess the more the merrier... people don't have to actually hook them all up, just depends on how far you want to modify your game. And you could have 1 to 6 flash lamps driven by a single TIP transistor (depending on how "flashy" you want to be.)

Anyway, the use of a unique song (with knocker, again to make the achievement really stand out) and the flashers would be very minimal code modifications. Certainly the simplest way to say, "hey good job, you got the goal!"

I think the changes/upgrades you have done are pretty awesome, taking a 40+ year old 1978 game and applying some modern rules. But it's really hard to know what to do and when you've done it unless you really know the rules. So goal song/flasher would be helpful.

also an option in the adjustment menu for LEDs on the cpu controlled lights would be really nice too...

If you’re really resistant to the whole flasher idea and/or knocker/chime song, there is one other thing you could do when a goal is achieved. You could come up with a CPU control light show. Like a bottom to top a play field light scroll, then top to bottom play field Light scroll, all lights flash type mini light show. It wouldn’t be as obvious without flash lamps or chime/knocker sounds. But might do the trick!

@cfh: I think I have a solution for you. You've apparently seen the other thread about adding digital sounds. The installation and setup is quite easy. Once it's installed you can put whatever sounds/songs you want. You just drag and drop. No coding necessary. If you don't like the sounds, you are free to change them to anything you want.

actually that is a over simplification of the add-sound process. but i did look at the wav card. i just think it's a bridge too far with this game. i like the chimes. it's part of the personality of the game. adding the wav card moves it too far away from the game's roots in my opinion.

as a compromise i suggested to dick a combo thing where the game uses both the wav card and the chimes. that i could see doing. it also gives stars2020 something that nearly no games have... electronic sound and chimes (there are a couple exceptions, like DE time machine, but it's a rare feature.) that really does make stars2020 fully unique having both sounds integrated together.

Monday is our testing night. Anything to update?

The first test of the game will be on this Thursday in our league, it starts at 7:00pm we will show it in a our classics rounds 2 or 4 or 6 round just depends if it gets selected by match play.

I will see if I can get a few guys together on a day to do a Stars battle with the new code.

https://twitch.tv/diehardpinball

Wizard mode seems not to score any points at all with latest update.
Spinner scores 3k per pull I think

Not only does the wizard mode seem to score no points, there really needs to be some goal achievement song. Or goal achievement flashers. or goal achievement CPU lights swipe. It is really confusing playing this version because it’s just impossible to know where you are. Maybe during wizard mode when the timer is counting down you could do something with the knocker for that 30 seconds. It’s not really easy to tell when you’re in the wizard mode. It’s such an important pivotal achievement, but other than the score countdown, which you may not ever notice, it’s not really obvious to know where you are

Ahhh ok it was set to 0, so changing the value scored the selected value for shots. Altgoughvthevoeft spinner seems to be 500 points and right 3k..just in case that isnt normal.

Thanks

Why would there be a wizard mode and it be worth zero points? that makes absolutely no sense.???
Now if you have the wizard mode turned off, set to zero seconds, OK. but we had it set to 30 seconds

If the setting was put at zero points then it doesn’t matter how long you had the mode for. Should there be a zero point setting on wizard mode, probably not. Should the default be zero points probably not. Hopefully when you change the setting it scores.

yes changed the setting and it works thanks! but in pinball, i'm having a hard time coming up with a single instance where a target or scoring switch is worth *nothing*. i know there's probably something out there (gottlieb no doubt), but i can't think of it...

Been thinking more about this wiz mode. Since it is timed, why can’t the knocker be used as a timer count down? That is every second ring the knocker to signify you’re in the mode and that time is clicking down. Could also pulse the knocker lightly so it is not a full noisy Knock, but more of a tick

As much as I really didn’t want to do this, I modified the code myself. made it so when you are in wizard mode, the knocker counts down and knocks once a second. I like it!!

It Was pretty easy to do as a sound was already defined for wizard mode, but never implemented. That is, the case he had set up for the wizard sound was blank or empty. All I did was populate it with the knocker code. I would really preferred to not hack up somebody else’s code. But I just kind of wanted to do it as a test to see how it sounded

I would prefer to not make these upgrades. But I guess if no one is gonna do it, I can...

I apologize our stream equipment didn’t get charged from last weeks stream. Yes we don’t have our regular stream guy here right now. Sorry we will stream on Tuesday night all night as there is a special party at the arcade.

Now I don’t know much about this code. Matter fact I don’t know anything about this code. But you are correct I looked at that code and thought that it should chime or tick with the hundredths Chime, as the other three things did too. But on my particular game it didn’t seem to do that from what I remember. So I just changed it so the wizard mode did the ticking with the knocker instead of the chimes. It’s a lot more obvious. And comparing it to your video, I like it a lot better. It just seems a lot more like a timer and much more like things are critical!

Also the knocker is way under used. It’s a coil and what is it used for? Extra ball and winning a game? That’s not much. So it’s time to put it to some good use

Again don’t know anything about this code but have a question. Is the “,3” after the coil Name the pulse length? That is if you make it “,2” it’ll hit the coil lighter, And “,4” will hit the coil longer (harder)?

BSOS_PushToTimedSolenoidStack(KNOCKER, 3, CurrentTime, true);

Another thing that I’ve noticed. I’ve never seen a wizard mode in any game that was dependent on the number of pop bumper hits. That is you require super pops in order to get in the wizard mode. I find this rule very odd and non-standard. I still think super pop should just be a 10 times value increase of the pop bumper, and really nothing else

That rule might work if there was a nest of pop bumpers. That is three pop bumpers. But with just one, having anything depending on the number of hits from that single pop bumper, just seems very weird. With one pop it's difficult to get any momentum to get those 50 required hits. Opposed to a pop bumper nest where you have all the bumpers working with each other.

I don’t see a problem with having some unique rules for a change. Aren’t people always complaining about a lack of innovation in pinball?

Plenty of cookie cutter games out there to play instead.

#attack-from-mars

10k/pop if on 3 ball and DickHamill kept the scoring the same as stock? I'd just shoot for the pop over and over.

Jeremy but that’s the problem. Talk about chopping wood. Do you want to hit a target 50 times in order to get to wizard mode? 50 freaking times! Again if there was a pop bumper nest fine. But there’s not. Which means you have to aim for that thing and hit it 50 times! That’s not a good rule that’s chop chop chopping wood!

Maybe a better idea would be to hit the left spinner 50 spins. Because with one shot you can probably get five or 10 spins. That’s still some chopping wood but it is determining on how well you hit that shot, and how powerful you hit it

And for that matter why not have super spinners? Hit the spinners 50 or 100 times and then he becomes worth 10x or allow you into the wizard mode. That seems to make a lot more sense than using the pop bumper

That's a good idea. Pop bumper, less hits, but add the spinner hits. Maybe a spinner bonus as well if you pass 10, 20, 30, 40, etc in one spin. The left spinner is definitely not something I shoot for in Stars, the right spinner is where it's at for me, and it's because of the less spins you can get on the left one.

It is pretty irrelevant as with the current wizard rules it is vertically impossible to get to wizard mode on three balls and very difficult even on 5 balls (even with the skill shot set to award a level). Having to achieve the pop bumpers is interesting touch with the wizard mode you can debate that it is too many, should probably be 30 as there is only one pop bumper. I would rather see the implementation of mini-wizard modes then downgrade or make major changes to the current major wizard mode.

Add in a:

Drop Mini Wizard Mode and/or Spinner Mini Wizard Mode and/or STARS Mini Wizard Mode. If you compete all objectives then you get the major wizard mode.

BCrage that's interesting ideas. there may not be enough code room for all *that* though. also you still have this same problem... there's no DMD or voice so it's really difficult to convey that you're in a wizard mode (be it mini or otherwise.) Adding those modes may just confuse the whole thing. Now if you could add some CPU controlled lights (would require modifications somewhere to add them), that would be helpful. But i think it swings outside the scope of what can be done with a 1978 game. There probably are unused lamp drivers. But then you have to wire them up and find a place to mount them (pretty sure no one will drill a playfield for a new insert!)

Question to Dick... are you done here? that is, before i start mod'ing stuff i want to make sure that you're not going to pick up the ball and make changes/mods. I mean if you're done that's fine. But just need to know where you are with the project. It's OK if you don't want to take this any further. But if you're just busy with other things, and plan on doing some more work on it, i don't want to start modifications...

Me thinks the install base for this is very small. the key block is the board. it requires a lot of work and some experience to make it. programming the Arduino isn't all that easy/fun either, and the GitHub thing complicates that. there's a steep learning curve here, and that's what's keeping the install base low. now if someone made the boards and sold this 'plug and play', that would change everything. but there's probably little to no money in doing that, so it seems doubtful that anyone will. If Stars was a crappy game to start, sure, people would probably pay $100 for this board. But since Stars is good in stock form, me thinks it's hard to justify spending time/money to change the game. Hence low install numbers.

I went down this road mostly because i see the potential of the whole affair. Would i have picked stars as the first game? heck no, but it's proved to be interesting and fun making the board and seeing where this all goes.