(Topic ID: 309093)

Stardust eject relay flashes back box lights

By DCRand

6 months ago


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  • Latest reply 6 months ago by DCRand
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Bonus SU Fix.JPG (resized).png
Stardust Eject Re Switch 2 (resized).jpg
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Stardust Eject Re Switch (resized).jpg
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#1 6 months ago

when the ball lands in either pf eject holes the back box lights flash off then back on twice during the bonus then eject cycle.

First, immediately when the hole switch is closed, then again part way through the cycle. Traced it to the make break switch on the eject relay. See switch far right in pic. When the normally closed side of the switch is opened without triggering the relay, back box lights go out. If I jumper the center leaf and normally closed leaf, the lights don’t flash off then on at all.

Can’t find any reference in the schematic to the eject relay turning any lights on or off.

So, is this normal? Or do I have a problem somewhere?

32464A78-D33C-4AAC-BEB2-CCF13B724816 (resized).jpeg
#2 6 months ago

That switch is in the 25 volt circuit and shouldn't directly affect the lights:
Stardust Eject Re Switch (resized).jpg
Do any other relays or steppers change when you open that switch? Does the same thing happen if you open switches on the 10, 100 or 1000 point relays (to the left on the schematic above)?

/Mark

#3 6 months ago

Are the bulbs standard #47/#44 lamps, or are you using LED's?

#4 6 months ago
Quoted from edednedy:

Are the bulbs standard #47/#44 lamps, or are you using LED's?

Both led and standard. And the turn completely off.

#5 6 months ago
Quoted from MarkG:

That switch is in the 25 volt circuit and shouldn't directly affect the lights:
[quoted image]
Do any other relays or steppers change when you open that switch? Does the same thing happen if you open switches on the 10, 100 or 1000 point relays (to the left on the schematic above)?
/Mark

Nothing else changes. But when anything adds to the bonus, it also flashes the lights in back box.

#6 6 months ago

Also, 10 and 100 point relay have slight flicker. 1000 point relay creates the complete on off flicker.

#7 6 months ago

Also, Not all back box lights are flashing. Only the illumination for the back glass and the elimination for the score reels. And I’m probably being blind but I can’t find the circuit for those lights on the schematic.

#8 6 months ago

When you add bonus I suspect you're adding 1000 points, right? So it's the 1000 pt switch above that has an effect not the bonus. The 10 and 100 point should have the same effect but whatever. The lights that go out are probably the Insert Display lights at the top of the lighting circuits on the schematic. You could confirm that by checking the wire colors.

Are the Extra Ball or Ball Index relays in the back box? If so, I'd examine them closely to see if there is anything touching anything that shouldn't. Does blocking the Extra Ball or Ball Index relay switch above have any effect when you open the Eject relay switch?

If nothing else changes when you open the Eject relay switch you're likely looking for some kind of short so the schematic will only help so much.

#9 6 months ago
Quoted from MarkG:

When you add bonus I suspect you're adding 1000 points, right? So it's the 1000 pt switch above that has an effect not the bonus. The 10 and 100 point should have the same effect but whatever. The lights that go out are probably the Insert Display lights at the top of the lighting circuits on the schematic. You could confirm that by checking the wire colors.
Are the Extra Ball or Ball Index relays in the back box? If so, I'd examine them closely to see if there is anything touching anything that shouldn't. Does blocking the Extra Ball or Ball Index relay switch above have any effect when you open the Eject relay switch?
If nothing else changes when you open the Eject relay switch you're likely looking for some kind of short so the schematic will only help so much.

Thanks for the ideas. Done for tonight. And won’t be able to get back to it for a couple days. Will post progress when I can. Thanks again. Btw this one had lots of problems. Just couldn’t track down this hopefully last one.

#10 6 months ago

Got back to it tonight. When engaged manually, 10, 100, and 1,000 relays all flashed back box lights off. After much tracing found a n/o switch on the Ball index relay that was always closed. Far left in pic. Opened it to operate properly. And back box lights went out completely. However when the first 10, 100, or 1,000 points were scored. Ball index coil locked on, and lights no longer flicker on any points scored.

However, pretty sure backbox lights shouldn’t be off until points scored. But I can’t find anywhere in the schematic that shows what should power these lights at any time. Ideas?

3C07ABC3-1BE4-4E8C-AF0F-4C6E6F82C001 (resized).jpeg745A7B7D-F7E7-47A2-B2ED-5A04A6C5DFA8 (resized).jpegimage (resized).jpg
#11 6 months ago

The suspicion is that a wire/blade/bracket elsewhere in the 24v circuit is shorting the 6v to ground?

#12 6 months ago

The backbox lights going off are behaving as if they rely on the black-blue wire (in red) between the Ball Index relay switch and the Extra Ball relay switch.
Stardust Eject Re Switch 2 (resized).jpg
It could be that the yellow wire to the backbox lights that go off is floating, or not connected to the yellow wire in the rest of the game. Once the Ball Index relay fires the yellow wire connected to the 1000 point relay switch gets connected to the yellow wire on the Ball Index relay switch and completes the circuit to the backbox lights too. It's hard to speculate where the problem is, but it sounds like the yellow wire isn't getting everywhere it needs to in the backbox.

#13 6 months ago
Quoted from AndrewP:

The suspicion is that a wire/blade/bracket elsewhere in the 24v circuit is shorting the 6v to ground?

I had a crazy shorting issue with the EoS switch in a stepper unit. The stepper unit frame is connected to 6V lamp bus. When the acutator hit the EoS switch it was direct short. I put a T post rubber on actuator to fix. I think the factory may have had fish paper on switch to stop shorting. The lights would flash.

Bonus SU Fix.JPG (resized).png
#14 6 months ago

Thank you all, will look at it this weekend. And get back w results. Definitely an interesting problem. On the good side, was 8th in league tonight. Lol

#15 6 months ago

I like MarkG’s theory. Remember that the schematic is a logical representation of the circuit, not a physical wiring diagram. The yellow path is likely “sneaking” through when the ball index relay is closed (as shown by your detection of the N.O. switch that was mis-adjusted). It could be as simple as a cold solder joint somewhere in the backbox that has broken free, or possibly an incorrect previous repair. Visual inspection is probably the best path. Alternatively, you could jumper from the jones plug to the light sockets to verify.

Good luck,
Dave

#16 6 months ago

Thank you all, and Mark G, as usual right on the money. Took some tracing, but yellow wire going through the jones plug in the back box wasn't making contact. Thought I had cleaned all the jones plugs on this game, but due to extended family situations, started working on this last April, with having to take months off in between sessions working on it. Somehow, missed cleaning the top jones plug of the two larger ones in the back box.

Now plug all clean and shiny and everything making good contact. Game looks to be playing perfectly so far but have only played about 6 test games since cleaning plug.

Thanks again for all the help.

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