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I had no care or investment into that world they blew up. Wish more would have been at stake with that. Kinda felt that whole angle was rushed. But they had to pack alot in...which kinda threw the pacing off a bit. Seemed like story didn't have time to breathe. But I liked it cant wait to see it again in standard. I had to watch 3D which I hate
Quoted from MrBellMan:Loved the movie, but they should have spent a little time honoring Han Solo.
What do you mean, he was like the lead in the movie, he had the 3rd most screen time behind Rey and Finn. I though it was boderline too much Han. and he seemed like he was enjoying himself a little too much! He was great! Probably get a ton of Luke in 8. And I feel bad for Carrie Fisher she seemed like she was drugged or something
Quoted from InfiniteLives:Was is said that Luke trained Kylo when he was younger?
Yes, and something mad him turn his back on this Mom, Dad and Luke. Gotta have something to do with Rey getting taken, or Rey was removed after Ben Solo turned into Kylo Ren. But in the interrogation scene Kylo didn't really act like he knew who she was. I would prefer her not known her parents A Mystery women is cool.
Quoted from InfiniteLives:I think they should of had a burial ceremony for him when they got back, like how they get the medals when they destroy the death star, they should have had a scene of them honoring him that way, perhaps thats what MrBellMan meant.
Yea, they could do that as the intro to 8 or show flash back to it if need be. His body got disintegrated. And the movie was already getting too long (i didn't mind, kinda wish they just would have went 3 full hours!!).
What is cool is they can "correct" anything they want from this movie in the next movie and make both better as a pair and eventual trilogy
Quoted from InfiniteLives:he seems of similar age as Rey
I read somewhere that she is 5 years younger. Ill find it and edit this
Lowpeg~ I'd bet $50 that she is not his daughter. Too obvious and if you remember last year they put out so much misdirection like Driver was photographed and photos leaked of him in Poe's uniform and Luke was dressed up like Kylo Ren w/ leaked photos. JJ did a good job keeping this secret.
You know what is great, is the fact that that we are talking about this and there are so many secrets and cool shit yet to come. Star Wars is back baby!
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:I wouldn't be surprised if Rey is just "some person" that was in training as a child and showed huge promise, and while Kylo and the Knights of Ren slaughtered Luke's academy Luke took/sent her away to protect her. She could still be a child of his, but I don't think it's necessary plotwise. The Skywalker legacy is filled with the Dark Side and mistakes - someone completely unrelated could be the key to breaking that.
Wow!!! That is brilliant. I bet you nailed it on the head.
Makes total sense.
Luke saves his most promising student, hiding her on a plant similiar to his, with that Obi-Wan elder to "watch" her, that's why that old guy had the key to finding luke. R2D2 was in on it and that's why he came back to life in her presence.
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:Yeah I'm unclear if R2 came back because he detected Rey, or if he came back because R2 heard Han died. I will be watching for this on my next viewing.
One theory I have is that Luke hoped Kylo could be saved; In Luke's own mind he himself has done more harm than good already so he hid away to prevent further damages, so ultimately it would fall to Han to deal with Kylo Ren and try to turn him back. With Han being murdered, it is now apparent Kylo is on a committed Dark Side path and so R2 activates to provide the rest of the map so they can find Luke and begin to fix things the hard way.
Are you really JJ Abrams in disguise??? LOL makes total sense!
Oh man! Audible.com already has the audiobook out. I am listening to it now!! I remember listening to Ep. 3 before it came out and it was much better and had a lot of stuff that didn't make the movie. Ill let you know if anything cool is in the book that wasn't in the movie
Quoted from tilt-master:Movie was well done!
I'm surprised no one has re-iterated the questions:
How was Luke's lightsaber found and better yet, was his severed hand with it? The movie has shown Luke's mechanical hand so is that a bit of foreshadowing?
Will cloning be a part of the remaining films? There was a minor mention of clones in TFA and it got brushed over.
Is Klo Ren's name a play of Clone Ben? He is very emotionally unstable. Also, Luke's severed hand could be used for cloning.......just throwing it out there.
Looking forward to remaining movies, great things to come.
I remember reading "leaked" screen plays like 10 years ago that kinda followed what you are saying. A group of Vader worshipers (like the Knifhts of Ren) found Vaders hand and used it to create a new new Vader. Maybe the Knights of Ren found Lukes hand and created Rey? Maybe Luke found out and hid her away? I found it. Worth a look.
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:I've read a few theories regarding this. It sounds like the Knights of Ren are possibly intended to be an entirely new form of a Dark Side order. ie - the Sith and their "rule of two" are gone and Kylo is not trained in their mysticism or behaviour.
So with that said I assumed the Knights of Ren were named after Kylo Ren, but I'm now wondering if 'Ren' as a surname is going to be the equivalent of 'Darth' for the Sith. Kylo Ren seems to be a leader and probably the most powerful for the time being, but maybe he isn't the only up and coming 'Ren' name we will see.
An entire group of dark side knights would be pretty cool imo - frankly it would essentially be something like the Nazgul and the Witch King which I'm all for.
REN is the name of the group. All the members are "REN" not named after Kylo. So your assumption I correct.
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:Hah yeah this afternoon I literally stumbled on exactly this concept on Wookiepedia. I think it's a pretty cool change to a familiar concept personally.
I thought Kylo Ren was a pretty neat name - interested to see if we get any cool names out of it.
I was reading way back that Rey's character's name is Kira (my wife's name) and that Kylo Ren (4 and 3 letters) is symmetrical to Kira Rey also similar to 4 letters in Luke and 4 letters in Leia?? IDK food for thought maybe they are twins separated at birth?
My friend saw movie for a 2nd time and this time noticed that Young Rey in the vision is being taken by that fat alien junk dealer for what that is worth.
Quoted from Grinder901:People want to like it so badly they will overlook all these glaring holes and questions this movie created.
I kinda agree, even though I really enjoyed and enjoyed listening through the Audio book, but I see your point.
Gone are the old days. This was made for as a Global release not just made to satisfy the USA. Also being Disney alot of it is going to have to do with Tie-ins. Like the New Disney Escape the Rathgar ride! Ect Ect. Its not perfect but Ill take it. Hopefully 8 makes 7 better.
I mean look at the Last Avengers. it felt very similar to this lots of plot crammed into 2 1/2 hours.
Also I hear there was 12 deleted scenes and over 35 minutes of cut film that may be added back into the "Directors cut" being released this Spring.
Quoted from InfiniteLives:Leia would probably know if she gave birth to two kids, and Han would have known it was her when she came from Jakku if he knew she was dropped off there
When did Han or Leia say that they didn't have a girl? Nothing was said one way or the other.
Also I personally don't think they are twins, I just thought it interesting.
I am thinking Luke took the girl away at age 5 when the 14 or 15 year old Ben Solo was hacking down the younglings.
Quoted from PinPatch:How the hell did lukes light saber end up in un locked case below a bar?? With all those drunk alien lifeforms floating around I'm guessing statistically something would have walked in and grabbed it in the 10 years or so it was there. At least have it behind a loose brick or hidden in a wall etc.
It wasn't unlocked. It was sealed, the seal opened through the force~Per the Book.
This movie is supposed to be a mirror or looking glass. Almost all of it is recycled.
Quoted from dmbjunky:C-3PO's arm was red
This Is explained in the cartoon, which is cannon, "Rebels" season 2.
In regards to everyone's issues with the "Star Killer"...
Its only purpose was to level the playing field by destroying the entire New Republic Leadership via blowing up that planet.
It was kinda generic, I agree, but to me shows that the writers didn't want to dwell on how the New Republic was brought to its knees as they wanted to focus on other stuff.
The "Resistance" was acting almost as rogue group / remnant of Admiral Ackbar's fleet. And that is the reason why they didn't have a full fleet of A, B and Y wings and why when shown in full force, the resistance wasn't that big.
Snoke didn't know where the resistance was hiding, and he allowed Hux to use the Star Killer in order to either Destroy them by blowing up the New Republic's home world, in case they were based out of that planet, or to draw them out of hiding.
Quoted from Grinder901:I just like details in my movie. Lack of details just screams of lazy writing but that's me.
Writing room:
"Hey boys don't worry about all these plot holes, just let the fanboys fill it in for themselves".
What are the plot holes? Did you want 3 unrelated movies as the new Trilogy? Did you dislike Empire?
Quoted from Grinder901:Take a few minutes and read this review. It brings up a lot of points that I already have made without even having read it until a few minutes ago.
Did anyone else seem surprised that Rey spoke droid?
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/8850324
I dont know that these are "plot holes" who cares how Rey learned droid. She is presumably a tough as nails survivor on a Junk planet that has hundreds if Aliens. I'd imagine that while she was working off her Indenture servant time under that junk dealer she learned alot.
fantasygoat said:
Q: Also, I really wish JJ would respect that space is vast and stop with the crappy shortcuts. First was beaming across the galaxy in Star Trek, essentially eliminating the need for starships with a throwaway plot device, now he has a Death Star that shoots across the galaxy and can destroy 5 planets at once, instantly. Also they only seemed to spend two seconds in hyperspace to get across the galaxy
A: In the novelization I am reading right now this is better explained, but its all tech geek stuff. Considering 99% of the audience doesn't want a Physics lesson, I don't feel that this is necessary.
fantasygoat said:
Q: Hyper space taking 2 seconds
A: Do you really want 20 minute scene with them just sitting there waiting? What did you want them to show that it took longer?
I don't think the needed a hours of her back story showing her learning droid? Or them sitting on the ship twittling their thumbs while in Hyperspace. If you want to get that technical then how did she learn how to speak English with an English accent? I presume Earth accents aren't in space??
Why was the space pirate after Han talking with a Scottish accent where did he learn that? I think you guys are going a bit too far with these minor nitpicks?
Quoted from PinPatch:Another plot hole, kylo ren destroyed lukes jedi academy, wouldn't sky walker , the king of jedis kick his ass? Especially as untrained rey and finn the garbo managed to do it.
Would have made more sense that kylo was kicking reys ass but when about to kill rey the blast separated them.
How do you know Luke was there? In Rey's Vision it showed Kylo and 6 other Knight of REN destorying the Academy. I would guess Luke was out and they did it in a sneak attack?
Quoted from InfiniteLives:"When first released in 1977, this movie was simply titled "Star Wars", as it was intended to be a stand-alone movie. Sequels were not considered until after it became wildly successful.
This isn't exactly correct. Alan Dean Foster who helped Lucas flesh out the Star Wars universe and ghost wrote (credit was originally give to Lucas solely but this has now changed) Star Wars the Novelisation also at same time wrote a second book which was going to be used as basis of sequel if movie didn't do well called Splinter of the Minds Eye.
SOTME was released shortly after Star Wars 1977 came out and became a footnote in history after SW4 mega success. And was abandened as cannon once Empire was written and later filmed.
Quoted from jwilson:I shouldn't have to read a book to get it. If it's not in the movie, it's bad writing.
The hyperspace stuff I am less concerned with, but literally 2 seconds to cross the galaxy? C'mon. Help a brother out here with the suspension of disbelief.
I get your point, but at some point you have to cut the film up a bit. I am glad they didn't got Lord of the Rings on us. That franchise spent way too much time on supposition and discussing the same BS over and over I found that LOTR's #2 #3 and all three Hobit movies unwatchable. I am glad that at least this movie wont be accused of not being pithy. Was its pacing a bit off YES but I can live with that.
Quoted from spfxted:Then she goes back to a anti-grav motorcycle thingy. Hell, why didn't she just fly it into the ship? The M Falcon did it!
The Storm Troopers have crappy white armor! You shoot them and they die! Why wear those damn suits at all??
The bad guy senses Han on the planet, but then can't find him when he's 20 feet away?
Finn turning so fast was a bit strange. Trained all his life...he goes out once and turned?
1) It like Luke's speeder only gravitate about 3' off the ground, too large to maneuver into the Destroyer, the Tractor beam bay was closed.
2) Storm Troopers uniforms are for heating/cooling not shielding
3) Finn is Lando's son so he is inherently good??
LOL~
Quoted from Grinder901:Did you take a second and read the article I pasted?
Yes...it raises some points but ultimately, I agree with Purpledrillmonkey, alot of its is TBD. Is the Movie bullet-proof? NO. But I personally don't need it to be, plus that gives them flexibility.
Also in case anyone cares. I just finished the Book. Not much difference but here is a couple things
1) There is a scene that is in book showing how Poe gets off Jakku. (Probably was filmed and cut)
2) That Junk dealer follows her to Maz Kantan's pirate den and Chewie rips his arm out of the socket. (Probably was filmed and cut)
3) Snoke and Kylo definitely know who Rey is. Ren says "It is you" during their final fight and Snoke says Kylo was right in regards to the girl.
Also I am not sure if this was in the movie, at least I don't remember, but when Rey has Kylo defeated, Snoke is in her thoughts and says Kill him.
And its confirmed it was Obi-Wan (and actually Alec Guniness's real voice) saying "Rey" during her vision. They actually cropped Alec saying Afraid and turned it into Rey during that scene.
Quoted from Grinder901:f you don't think it's annoyingly convenient that General Han Solo has his ship stolen, somehow, and then wandering the galaxy just happens to come across it as our heroes expertly out maneuvered several tie fighters in a ship described as unable to even fly then fine.
Dude its the Force, working in strange ways!
Quoted from Grinder901:Kylo, though injured by Chewbacca crossbow bolt that I guess he didn't sense but easily stopped Poe's early in the film
He had just killed his Dad, maybe a bit pre-occupied???
Quoted from dmbjunky:Actually doesn't Obi-Wan say, "Rey, these are the first steps." Rey was Alec Guinness and the rest of it was Ewan MacGregor
You are 100% Correct on that.
Quoted from dmbjunky:It sounds like a "Lucas-Han-shot-first" thing to make it his first mission so he won't be a murderer.
Actually there is a slight reference to this, Rey shoots at Kylo Ren during the woods encounter and he makes an off the cuff remark about her shooting first. He says something to the effect of "Why would you try to kill me without even knowing me....you shot first" I can't remember exactly the text but I think its a wink towards that whole debacle.
Quoted from Grinder901:So there's a Republic and a Rebellion? A Rebellion from the Republic? Don't know, guess we'll hope almost two years from now it's explained
Its explained that the Republic doesn't want another war, so they have retired the war machine. Leia and her "Resistance Fighters" are a small elite company made up of Ackbar's former unit. They are acting outside of the "Law" this is why their numbers are small and they are hiding out on that base that looked like Yavin. I'll admit they didn't really explain this well in the movie however it is explained much better in the Novelization.
Quoted from PinPatch:Everyone is forgetting vader went good at the end of return of the jedi, so vader's helmet /life force would be pushing kylo to the lights side.
Again, in at least the novelization, Kylo Ren and Snoke's first talk goes into more detail talking about how A lifetimes worth of "Good" Work being Evil went to waste in a split second, do to Vadar allowing Sentiment getting in the way causing him to lapse into the light for a brief moment. Snoke then drills Kylo about will you do the same, which later we find out he does not as he kills Han.
I don't think Ren is conjuring up a Force Ghost, more alone the lines of just using the Helmet as a reminder of that's who he wants to be.
Quoted from jwilson:I wish you'd stop mentioning the novelization - if you need to refer to a book to explain things in the movie, the movie failed.
The reason I've brought it up is because Its fresh in my mind. I watched the movie 1 time after being up for 42 hours straight so I don't remember it 100% clearly. I just finished the Novel so in my mind its hard to remember if something was in the movie. And I like reading the books. The book for ep. 3 came out 2 weeks before the movie, I finished it and it was easier to understand that movie as well.
I am sorry you didn't enjoy the movie and think that is was a failure. I can't wait to see it for a second time and with having read the book, I can fill in the gaps if they exist or use the imagery to support what you feel is missing.
Quoted from Grinder901:Not to go down that rabbit hole but that's sounds like religion, doesn't it?
FYI- I'm as nonreligious as you can get
Can't explain it? Doesn't make sense? It doesn't have to!
Did you have a problem in Ep. 4 when in all the Galaxy Vadar just happened to sack Leia's Cruser just outside of Tatoonie where his son Luke was living?
or in Ep. 5 the Hoth System just happens to be within Limping distance of Han's old friend / former owner of the Falcon (which happens to be the broken ship than needs fixed by Said former owner), Lando Carlarission's new Mining colony?
or in Ep. 5 when Luke crashes onto Dagoba out of a huge world, he happens to crash into Yoda's house?
Ect. Ect. Ect.
Quoted from dzoomer:Weak.
How about being open minded when watching... One can always follow up later. Or one can give all the info during the show such as "Rey sits on a chair". It's about a balance in story telling. Nuances to some are obvious to others. With a 95% rotten tomatoes review rating obviously most people get it.
Aussie's can't be bothered with open mindedness!! Probably too busy watching taped Cavs games and Americas favourite Mate from down under And MY Personal HERO Mathew Dellavedova!! ?
Quoted from TimeBandit:Here's some advice to Disney. You know the bad guy, the one with the mask? How about you leave that fucking mask on his face ALL the time. Vader was the baddest cat in the galaxy because he WAS Vader, NOT because he was some conflicted mop head trying to be all gangsta.
I have been squirming over this for days, wondering what was that little thing that was niggling at me even though I thought the movie was fantastic. It just came to me today. Leave that mask in its place. Vader WAS that damned mask. With Kylo Ren it is an affectation. As soon as he took it off, everything went limp.
So what they were going for worked. He isn't Darth Vadar. He is a little boy with too much power. Why do you think he smashed his toys when he was angry. What you felt about him is what you are supposed to feel about him, he is not Darth and he is a wanna-be
Quoted from Silverballer:I enjoyed the movie quite a bit. Still wondering how R2 powered up. Could Luke be strong enough now to of sensed what was going on and powered R2 on so he could supply the remainder of the map? He knew that Rey would be the one searching him out and its sets it up perfect for the next movie where he can now go train her.
When the second map was near Artoo he came alert. Probably a chip or something Luke put in it when Artoo's scanners sensed it He turned on. Like Bluetooth.
Quoted from dmbjunky:There were two different times that BB-8 was next to Artoo. The first time he didn't wake up so what was the deal there? Maybe it's like Fallout, somebody said certain words that woke him up. I think the only difference between the first and second times was that Rey was there which helps the theory that Rey was Luke's pupil.
I think someone stated on this thread that Rey is five years younger than Kylo, so she probably wasn't three or four when that happened.
Younglings, smh. Another one of Lucas' stupid words cause he didn't want to say children.
Okay Rey and Bb8/the map had to be there
I read and was also disappointed in the Publicity surrounding her. That was BS and P.C. Charged no doubt
Quoted from dmbjunky:I wanted to watch it a second time and specifically watch the flashback sequence again to look for clues when she was being left on Jakku. Anybody notice anything about the ship that left her? Did it sound similar to another ship? An X-wing or Millenium Falcon?
Looks like and sounds like Unkar Plutt saying "Quiet Girl" and his hand dragging her away as the Falcon blasts off.
This is what I see (taken from Stormstripp via reddit)
What you will see and hear is this:
Sequence of events begin in what appears to be Cloud City, then as Rey - a little girl laying in the rain (but Rey the adult is remembering herself there). Please note that Rey is about to be killed by someone with a very distinct helmet. All of a sudden we see a red saber spear the would-be killer and save Rey.
The camera pulls back and we see that the holder of that weapon is Kylo, surrounded by the KOR and the dead bodies of students of Luke's Academy. Rey sees Kylo's mask, camera focuses on his mask and directly cuts to the scene of her being left on Jakku.
From this visual we get a story. Whatever happened to Ben Solo that caused him to kill those students, he was willing to kill one of the KOR in order to save little Rey and then he is the person who delivers her to Jakku. After all, she is his cousin. The daughter of Luke.
Incidentally, the voices from the saber's memories are real. You can hear Obi Wan, Luke and some say Yoda too (I have not yet heard Yoda). The force is being described starting at 0.20.
(the quality is shit and its reverse picture) but at least you can watch it.
I know you guys don't want to hear about the "book" but this is also a deleted scence. Unkar Plutt follows Rey/Falcon/Han to Maz Kantana's Base and there he confronts Rey and Chewie rips his arm off. For what thats worth.
Quoted from PinPatch:Ive read in the next movie kylo strikes back....
Why are you even posting in this thread? We get it you don't like it.
You offer nothing to this thread and troll everyone's comment.
At least if your going to Troll come up with Something funny or Something relevant that will make the rest of us think.
Quoted from CNKay:I love how they made the movie rushed, vague and full of holes. So folks had to watch it over and over. Bravo marketing!! I like all the merchandising. Need a bb8 pencil sharpener. They got it. They got EVERYTHING.
I guess No I don't understand. You say the purposely made movie shitty and over marketed it. Sounds like extreme love for the movie my bad.
Your comments were disparaging and condescending...the point of your post was not to be constructive or thoughtful.
I apologize for the attack. I am just sick of guys popping in with shit talk that isn't funny or insightful or adding anything.
Maybe that's what Bezlebup and Grinder want?? But i was hoping for more than what you provided.
Sorry Happy New Years
Quoted from Grinder901:Hey man, I think I've said enough. If all this thread is supposed to be is a circle jerk to how great the movie was then have at it. I won't get in yalls way.
Dude you and Bez have had great comments, I was commenting on the fact you guys both thumbs up that guy. No offense to you CNK. Which to me means you liked his Original comment that I felt added nothing. I appreciated our debates. Sorry for that confusion.
I was specifically calling out PinPatch from Down Under.
drive by lame ass troll comments from him.
Quoted from CNKay:Oh I am biteing my lip. Won't say a word.
Hey you don't have to leave. Ibwas being a bit over protective and a dick. Ive redacted my comment and you seem like a cool guy. My bad
Quoted from PinPatch:To kreporter look back I wrote an entire alternate force awakens movie in summary. In fact George Lucas has stated that movies in a series should be different not rehashes of classic stories.
Kreporter sorry if an honest opinion offends , rest assured im sure ewoks will save the day in episode 9....
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!
My apology extends to you. Sorry for being a dick
Quoted from DCFAN:That was the point I was also trying to make, it does not matter whether it was a happy ending or not as long as it was entertaining. It also helps that the story line left people discussing what some of it means for the following movies.
See I agree with you 100% on that.
Quoted from dmbjunky:Oh yeah they lived it for sure. They had the same problems as everyone else but they lived it overall.
god damn fat fingers, auto spell and shitty ass Windows phone make for horrible posts! LOL
Got my second viewing in yesterday. Took my 12 year of daughter and 4 year old son.
Any doubt I may have had was erased.
My daughter is not a huge SW fan but watches them with me and knows the characters.
She was clutching my hand and sobing during the Han /Kylo scene and my 4 year old sat through whole move (which never happens) and said "that was super fun fun fun" at the end.
What more can I say? Was It perfect? No. But I feel it definitely accomplished its goal.
And made this Dad really happy.
Quoted from dmbjunky:I always thought Star Wars was secretly about Artoo and Threepio. I was glad to see they made it into the new one and Threepio didn't do any annoying shit.
That is sooo weird you just said that. Long/Short. I am 37 and still have my bed sheets from when I was a 3 year old. The empire Strikes Back bed sheets and pillow cases. After my 4 year old Son, 12 year old daughter and I saw the movie (my 2nd showing) a month or so ago, I presented him with and passed down said Empire Bed Sheets and Pillow cases.
Today we were playing around and he was rattling off the characters on the pillow case, and I wondered to my self...why the hell are C3PO and R2D2, twice as large as anyone and in the middle front and center?
I think you are 100% right! LOL
Quoted from CrazyLevi:As far as I can tell there has never been a Star Wars movie without these things. Reasonable to expect you'd see them in a new one.
Not nitpicking, just saying these things shouldn't be on the list. It's like noting that the new one takes place in space.
We've seen that one before!!!!!
Your 100% correct. If you want to go that deep, Lucas directly used almost everything from the Original Star Wars from other movies. Here is a cool web site that breaks stuff down. http://www.moongadget.com/origins/
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