(Topic ID: 292773)

Star Wars Premium Fork stays up all game, Rotates in Test


By honkbahh

12 days ago

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Topic Stats

  • 45 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 days ago by Coindork
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 12 days ago

In desperate need of HALP. When the machine (Star Wars Comic Premium) is powered up the fork ramp goes to the up (or medium, I cannot tell) position and stays there. It is my understanding that it shouldn't even begin in this position.

In game when you shoot the left orbit the ball just sits behind the fork. It registers, and the fork moves maybe a quarter inch down, then back into the previous position. Eventually the game tries to find the ball and the fork budges again, but that's it.

Background: Brand new Comic Premium opened today. Issue was present with 1.04 (I think that was the original software). I updated and am currently running v 1.10 software with the same problem.

**Fork Diagnosis:**
55: medium height (moves down a hair from 57)
56: cycles all the way down into the playfield and back to medium, but a bit lower than at 55
57: moves a bit higher from 56
(machine acts like all 3 pass)

**Switch Diagnosis:**
64: Home, input 7 ground 10 white/blue
65: Mid, input 7 ground 10 white/violet (manual says should be pin eight)
66: Mid, input 7 ground 10 white/grey (manual says should be Up, pin 9)

The standouts for me are Mid registering for both 65 and 66, and input 7 showing up 3 times. But?

I don't know why the manuals fork microswitch numbers of 61 (home), 62 (middle), 63 (up) don't match with either of the values given by the machine.

What I've done:
Reseated all ethernet cables and harness cables from fork assembly to node board 9 (and all joints along the way).

Checked for continuity all along the harness between the white/violet and white/gray, as well as their corresponding input pins on node board 9, and have found no continuity.

unplugged the microswitch harness (results in the fork just going up and down the whole time, it's plugged back in now)

Adjusted microswitches so they all register in the fork diagnosis.

My other ideas:
Reinstall same software (don't know if this is possible)? Software update was previously installed before all the reseating and adjusting. Maybe installing the software with a few microswitches compressed at the same time created an issue?

Reseat everything on node board 9?

Check the back of node board 9 for solder blobs/shorts? I thought if this were the issue I might see continuity on the input pins though.

I have a Jurassic Park, Turtles, and Ghostbusters, so I may have a compatible node board I could swap in to test if needed? Not thrilled about monkeying around with other machines that work, but I will if needed.

Any help would be greatly appreciated! I believe I have read the other threads on Fork issues, but didn't see one relevant here. Thanks!

#2 12 days ago

It's got to either be a switch issue, or node board issue, right? With the fork out, can you manually manipulate the switches and see if you get the same results?

I haven't messed with my fork / ramp but if they're all individually molexed switches you can try swapping places and seeing if it makes any difference.

Or, skip all of this and just call Stern.

#3 11 days ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

It's got to either be a switch issue, or node board issue, right? With the fork out, can you manually manipulate the switches and see if you get the same results?
I haven't messed with my fork / ramp but if they're all individually molexed switches you can try swapping places and seeing if it makes any difference.
Or, skip all of this and just call Stern.

I assume you mean when the playfield is up? The switch test can only be run manually, and the fork test I did both manually and with the fork rotating. But again, it "passed" as in the three switches were triggered.

As for the distributor, I'd love to, but I bought this from an individual. So I'm not sure if I could turn to stern or my distributor or what.

#4 11 days ago

Dont talk to a dizzy go through stern

#5 11 days ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

Dont talk to a dizzy go through stern

They'll talk to me, even though it's out of warranty and not bought through a distributor?

Thanks!

#6 11 days ago

They've never denied me support. YMMV but from all I know they've gone way above and beyond their stated warranty terms.

#7 11 days ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

They've never denied me support. YMMV but from all I know they've gone way above and beyond their stated warranty terms.

Thanks again for the reply. Do you recommend calling their support, or email?

#8 11 days ago

If they're taking calls do that but they may still be under covid / email only.

If I get a chance today I'll peer into the mech and see if I can see anything else to try. Let us know if you get an answer from them beforehand.

#9 11 days ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

If they're taking calls do that but they may still be under covid / email only.
If I get a chance today I'll peer into the mech and see if I can see anything else to try. Let us know if you get an answer from them beforehand.

Gave them a call and a recorded message says emails only, so I sent one along. All suggestions welcome though!

#10 11 days ago

May the fork be with you!

#11 11 days ago

I assume you searched the owners thread for this issue?

#12 11 days ago
Quoted from nicoy3k:

I assume you searched the owners thread for this issue?

I didn't. I had thought that was more convoluted? Should I post there too?

#13 11 days ago
Quoted from honkbahh:

I didn't. I had thought that was more convoluted? Should I post there too?

Post a link to this thread.

#14 10 days ago

I made a video

#15 10 days ago

I fixed this for you.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/JAZ32TdN3eE

Edit- nevermind you fixed it right before i got it for you. Ill take a look at mine quick for you here after watching your video alittle closer.

#16 10 days ago
Quoted from Phbooms:

I fixed this for you.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/JAZ32TdN3eE
Edit- nevermind you fixed it right before i got it for you. Ill take a look at mine quick for you here after watching your video alittle closer.

I don't know what I'm doing, but the video isn't embedding

Direct Link:

#17 10 days ago
Quoted from honkbahh:

I don't know what I'm doing, but the video isn't embedding

I got your video to work and just made a video for you of mine. Give a me a few minutes to upload it to youtube. Looks like your #55 is bad but i didnt look under playfield to check it out.

#18 10 days ago

#19 10 days ago

Thanks! Very helpful! What happens if you go from 57 to 55?

#20 10 days ago

Switch 55, 56 and 57 represent 3 micro switches on the underside of the playfield for the fork ramp.

1) Take the glass off and take the balls out of your game.

2) Put the game in for ramp test mode.

3) Lift up the playfield.

There is a motor for the ramp that rotates a gear to activate each of the switches. Each switch is a different position for the ramp.
You have one that’s bent and not activating.

With the playfield up you should be able to run though the fork ramp test mode and see which one is not activating.

I had this same problem with mine.

#21 10 days ago
Quoted from honkbahh:

Thanks! Very helpful! What happens if you go from 57 to 55?

Switch 56 is probably slightly bent and not activating.
You just need to bend it slightly back into position.

#22 10 days ago
Quoted from Coindork:

Switch 56 is probably slightly bent and not activating.

Thanks! I will check this again tonight and take a video from the underside. However when I do the manual switch test with the playfield up, registering all switches by hand, the switch that should say high doesn't, and I'm certain that other switches were also not activated. I'll double check this too though!

#23 10 days ago
Quoted from honkbahh:

Thanks! Very helpful! What happens if you go from 57 to 55?

It doesnt go from 57 to 55 on mine like i see yours does in your video. I can only go in order 55,56,57 or 57,56,55. It wont let me jump from 57 to 55 without hitting 56 in between. Here is another quick video to show it not being able to jump over 56.

#24 10 days ago
Quoted from honkbahh:

Thanks! I will check this again tonight and take a video from the underside. However when I do the manual switch test with the playfield up, registering all switches by hand, the switch that should say high doesn't, and I'm certain that other switches were also not activated. I'll double check this too though!

Testing it by hand won’t matter.
It’s unlikely you have a bad switch, hence by hand it should register and seems fine if you test it that way.
There is a white teardrop shaped gear/cog on the motor that rotates to hit the spring on the switch. If the spring is slightly bent the gear/cog will not activate it when the motor rotates.
Hence a manual test will show it’s fine.
It needs to be activating when the motor rotates to that position.

#25 10 days ago

To me it seems your switch wires are backwards or something and not the actual mech since it can skip from 57 to 55. Makes me think 55 is wired backwards. Take a picture of your wiring and ill compare them to mine.

#26 10 days ago
Quoted from Phbooms:

To me it seems your switch wires are backwards or something and not the actual mech since it can skip from 57 to 55. Makes me think 55 is wired backwards. Take a picture of your wiring and ill compare them to mine.

I literally just solved the same problem on my machine on Saturday morning.
I have a Comic Book premium on location and it was doing the same thing, only switch 57 was not registering and would skip it in test mode.
My money is on a switch that’s bent slightly out of alignment.

If it was simply wired wrong the switches would just register out of order, not skip one.

#27 10 days ago
Quoted from Coindork:

I literally just solved the same problem on my machine on Saturday morning.
I have a Comic Book premium on location and it was doing the same thing, only switch 57 was not registering and would skip it in test mode.
My money is on a switch that’s bent slightly out of alignment.
If it was simply wired wrong the switches would just register out of order, not skip one.

Big thanks again! I'll dive in hard tonight. Quick couple of follow-ups. When you say spring, that is the arm of the microswitch with the roller on it correct?

Also, so I can try to adjust it correctly, should the microswitch activate only when the elongated point of the teardrop is contacting the roller on the microswitch, or a bit before/after?

#28 10 days ago
Quoted from Coindork:

I literally just solved the same problem on my machine on Saturday morning.
I have a Comic Book premium on location and it was doing the same thing, only switch 57 was not registering and would skip it in test mode.
My money is on a switch that’s bent slightly out of alignment.
If it was simply wired wrong the switches would just register out of order, not skip one.

Your more then likely right. My initial thought was a compressed switch also but the skipping over 56 is weird. honkbahh id do what Coindork said first since hes messed with the switches and mech already and experienced the same issue.

Also in your video it shows 55 flashing 2x like its registering it being hit 2x during test sometimes I see. Just a few little tweaks and you should have it. Its common to run into these small switch or opto issues NIB so dont sweat it to much I think you will get it fixed with alittle tinkering.

#29 10 days ago
Quoted from Phbooms:

It doesnt go from 57 to 55 on mine like i see yours does in your video. I can only go in order 55,56,57 or 57,56,55. It wont let me jump from 57 to 55 without hitting 56 in between. Here is another quick video to show it not being able to jump over 56.

Thanks! This is also very helpful. When you're doing this test in either direction, do you need to press the select button (looks like you were using the flipper?) on each switch, or do you just press it and it cycles through all 3 on its own?

#30 10 days ago
Quoted from honkbahh:

Thanks! This is also very helpful. When you're doing this test in either direction, do you need to press the select button (looks like you were using the flipper?) on each switch, or do you just press it and it cycles through all 3 on its own?

I have to hit the flipper button each time to go in the corresponding direction per switch. So right flipper goes 55,56,57 and then left flipper to go from 57,56,55. I do it with the coin door closed.

#31 10 days ago
Quoted from honkbahh:

Big thanks again! I'll dive in hard tonight. Quick couple of follow-ups. When you say spring, that is the arm of the microswitch with the roller on it correct?
Also, so I can try to adjust it correctly, should the microswitch activate only when the elongated point of the teardrop is contacting the roller on the microswitch, or a bit before/after?

Yes, it’s the little arm that comes off the switch with the “roller” on it.
It only needs to be bent a very tiny amount. Like really tiny.
Just enough so that the teardrop shaped cog on the end on the motor engaged the switch when it’s in the correct position and disengages when it moves to the next position.
Your switch it most likely bent slightly down (away from the teardrop sapped cog), hence it passes right over it without engaging it and moves on to the next position.

#32 10 days ago
Quoted from Phbooms:

I have to hit the flipper button each time to go in the corresponding direction per switch. So right flipper goes 55,56,57 and then left flipper to go from 57,56,55. I do it with the coin door closed.

Exactly, but if he has one not registering it will go 55-57 or 57-55, totally bypassing 56.
If he tested the micro switch manually and it was working, then the problem is it’s not engaging. His ramp is only hitting the two positions and it really doesn’t know what to do. The motor will spin to that position, but roll right past it because the micro switch never engages and the ramp never goes down.

#33 10 days ago
Quoted from Coindork:

Exactly, but if he has one not registering it will go 55-57 or 57-55, totally bypassing 56.
If he tested the micro switch manually and it was working, then the problem is it’s not engaging. His ramp is only hitting the two positions and it really doesn’t know what to do. The motor will spin to that position, but roll right past it because the micro switch never engages and the ramp never goes down.

Got it. So my video shows 56 only registering when going from left to right, not right to left. Although, when going from right to left, it goes from 57 to 55 suspiciously fast, so maybe 55 is registering too soon? I'll take a close look.

However, wouldn't none of this explain why the "high" position is not showing up in the manual switch test?

#34 10 days ago
Quoted from honkbahh:

Got it. So my video shows 56 only registering when going from left to right, not right to left. Although, when going from right to left, it goes from 57 to 55 suspiciously fast, so maybe 55 is registering too soon? I'll take a close look.
However, wouldn't none of this explain why the "high" position is not showing up in the manual switch test?

When you get home do that test with the play field up so you can visibly see that teardrop shaped gear/cog move when you change positions in test mode.
You will be able to physically see when it moves to each position and which one its bypassing or only occasionally triggering.
Whichever one it rolls right over and moves on to the next is going to be the one thats out of adjustment.
Even if it's only slightly bent, it might register sometimes, and sometimes not.
When working correctly it should stop at each micro switch (position 55, 56 or 57) and the ramp should be in said position.

I don't know in actual gameplay if it's registering them from right to left or left to right, or both.
I suspect its only one directing in game play, but I'm not 100% certain, if so it would account for why in test mode it registers one way and not the other.

#35 10 days ago
Quoted from Coindork:

When you get home do that test with the play field up so you can visibly see that teardrop shaped gear/cog move when you change positions in test mode.
You will be able to physically see when it moves to each position and which one its bypassing or only occasionally triggering.
Whichever one it rolls right over and moves on to the next is going to be the one thats out of adjustment.
Even if it's only slightly bent, it might register sometimes, and sometimes not.
When working correctly it should stop at each micro switch (position 55, 56 or 57) and the ramp should be in said position.
I don't know in actual gameplay if it's registering them from right to left or left to right, or both.
I suspect its only one directing in game play, but I'm not 100% certain, if so it would account for why in test mode it registers one way and not the other.

Snuck home early for some quick tests. I had not touched the machine since the video I took last night. With the playfield raised I tested the fork mech, and it worked perfectly forwards and backwards. I lowered the playfield and tried again, and it worked perfectly, just as in the video Phbooms uploaded.

So I started a game. Right after launch, the fork raised. I rolled the ball up the left orbit, and the ball was stuck just like before. I immediately opened the service menu and retested the fork again, and it worked normally... I shut the machine off, then back on and repeated all tests with the same results.

So to summarize, the fork works in the fork test menu now (I changed nothing from last night), but still does not function in game.

Video:

#36 10 days ago
Quoted from honkbahh:

Snuck home early for some quick tests. I had not touched the machine since the video I took last night. With the playfield raised I tested the fork mech, and it worked perfectly forwards and backwards. I lowered the playfield and tried again, and it worked perfectly, just as in the video Phbooms uploaded.
So I started a game. Right after launch, the fork raised. I rolled the ball up the left orbit, and the ball was stuck just like before. I immediately opened the service menu and retested the fork again, and it worked normally... I shut the machine off, then back on and repeated all tests with the same results.
So to summarize, the fork works in the fork test menu now (I changed nothing from last night), but still does not function in game.
Video:

Make a video of what the mech is doing on the underside of the play field when you go though that test.
Basically the teardrop shaped gear/cog rotation though all the switches.

While you have the play field up, check to see if the motor itself is loose at all.

#37 10 days ago
Quoted from Coindork:

Make a video of what the mech is doing on the underside of the play field when you go though that test.
Basically the teardrop shaped gear/cog rotation though all the switches.
While you have the play field up, check to see if the motor itself is loose at all.

Here!

#38 10 days ago

I still think you have a switch thats intermittent.
Basically just barely making contact since it works sometimes and doesn't others.

Go though that full rotation a bunch of times in a row.
Like five or six full 360 rotations one direction all the way though all three switches and keep going, and the the same in the other direction.
You basically want to try to replicate what you were getting earlier where it was skipping over a switch.

Or you could just try lightly bending the switch thats been having issues towards the direction of the teardrop shaped cog to see if it making better contact and solves the problem.
If those things are very slightly bent out of wack they will act like this.
Don't bent it too much though, just enough so that when that cog rolls over it that it makes good contact and triggers the switch.

#39 10 days ago
Quoted from Coindork:

I still think you have a switch thats intermittent.
Basically just barely making contact since it works sometimes and doesn't others.
Go though that full rotation a bunch of times in a row.
Like five or six full 360 rotations one direction all the way though all three switches and keep going, and the the same in the other direction.
You basically want to try to replicate what you were getting earlier where it was skipping over a switch.
Or you could just try lightly bending the switch thats been having issues towards the direction of the teardrop shaped cog to see if it making better contact and solves the problem.
If those things are very slightly bent out of wack they will act like this.
Don't bent it too much though, just enough so that when that cog rolls over it that it makes good contact and triggers the switch.

Thanks! I can see how hunting for the switch to be triggered in the diagnostics would be different than in game. Instead of bending the arm I’ll loosen the screws and move the switches closer.

Also, I don’t believe I can make full 360 rotations in the same direction. I think it’s just forward then backwards.

#40 10 days ago
Quoted from honkbahh:

Thanks! I can see how hunting for the switch to be triggered in the diagnostics would be different than in game. Instead of bending the arm I’ll loosen the screws and move the switches closer.
Also, I don’t believe I can make full 360 rotations in the same direction. I think it’s just forward then backwards.

Is your problem solved after moving the switch?

#41 10 days ago
Quoted from honkbahh:

Also, I don’t believe I can make full 360 rotations in the same direction. I think it’s just forward then backwards.

Interesting.
We’re you just using the flippers to move position?
When I was fixing mine I used the service buttons in the coin door (never used the flippers).

#42 10 days ago
Quoted from Coindork:

Interesting.
We’re you just using the flippers to move position?
When I was fixing mine I used the service buttons in the coin door (never used the flippers).

I've played with the switches for a few hours now, and pretty much going in the wrong direction. Even doing things like changing switch 56 causes issues with switch 55 which was untouched. Now I pretty much go between two always being on (the two vary), and 56 not being on at all. I would think this is not possible if the metal teardrop were circular elsewhere. Unless the point is stopping somewhere slightly to either side of the switch (which it does)

I guess a big part of my problem is I don't know what is driving what. Is the microswitch what causes the fork to stop moving, or does the fork always move to three positions, and that is where the microswitches should activate?

Next I'm going to try having the point on the teardrop exactly over the roller of the microswitch by manually adjusting gear, and then adjust the microswitch, and repeat this pattern for all three.

#43 10 days ago
Quoted from honkbahh:

I've played with the switches for a few hours now, and pretty much going in the wrong direction. Even doing things like changing switch 56 causes issues with switch 55 which was untouched. Now I pretty much go between two always being on (the two vary), and 56 not being on at all. I would think this is not possible if the metal teardrop were circular elsewhere. Unless the point is stopping somewhere slightly to either side of the switch (which it does)
I guess a big part of my problem is I don't know what is driving what. Is the microswitch what causes the fork to stop moving, or does the fork always move to three positions, and that is where the microswitches should activate?
Next I'm going to try having the point on the teardrop exactly over the roller of the microswitch by manually adjusting gear, and then adjust the microswitch, and repeat this pattern for all three.

Ok.
When you lift the playfield up, check all of the switches one by one by hand to see if one is stuck in the on/engaged position.
After the teardrop has passed over them, push the spring down by hand and you should hear it click. Do this to all three of them individually.
If they are too close to to teardrop shaped gear/cog they can be stuck in the engaged position. They need to be open except when the teardrop shaped cog passes over them in its rotation as this is what activated them sending the ramp into said position.
Check the switch you moved and make sure it’s not stuck closed/activated. If it’s a little too close this might be the case.

As I mentioned before, my machine is on location, but its right down the street from my house and I can take some pics for you in the morning if you don’t get it sorted out.

#44 10 days ago
Quoted from Coindork:

Ok.
When you lift the playfield up, check all of the switches one by one by hand to see if one is stuck in the on/engaged position.
After the teardrop has passed over them, push the spring down by hand and you should hear it click. Do this to all three of them individually.
If they are too close to to teardrop shaped gear/cog they can be stuck in the engaged position. They need to be open except when the teardrop shaped cog passes over them in its rotation as this is what activated them sending the ramp into said position.
Check the switch you moved and make sure it’s not stuck closed/activated. If it’s a little too close this might be the case.
As I mentioned before, my machine is on location, but its right down the street from my house and I can take some pics for you in the morning if you don’t get it sorted out.

Alright big update! Basically I think it works 100%! Your suggestion above for adjusting the microswitches was exactly what I originally had done, but from reading your advice (especially about the 360) I tried it again. The issue ended up being that the home switch (55) was triggering too early, but only when the device was rotating from 57 around to 55. I found the only way to test this is to use the select button. Using the +/- or flipper only allows going from 55-56-57 or 57-56-55, however, in game it seems mostly to go from 57 to 55, especially when there is a ball behind the fork. Once I figured this out I was able to readjust switch 55 with the device rotating all the way around.

The fork test now seems to function fine, however some of the switches stay engaged, while others are only briefly engaged, then disengage. This doesn't seem to matter, as the motor stops appropriately either way. Every time in game when the ball went behind the fork it held it and released it as it should. The fork also raised several times during game play (I cannot claim to understand when it should rise, but it seemed normal). Now I can actually play the game and see if it's completely working as expected!

Now I just have to investigate the buzzing/rattling from the "May the force be with you" ball save diverter. Not sure I would have heard it with the glass on and volume on.

Thanks all, and I'll check back in!

#45 10 days ago
Quoted from honkbahh:

Alright big update! Basically I think it works 100%! Your suggestion above for adjusting the microswitches was exactly what I originally had done, but from reading your advice (especially about the 360) I tried it again. The issue ended up being that the home switch (55) was triggering too early, but only when the device was rotating from 57 around to 55. I found the only way to test this is to use the select button. Using the +/- or flipper only allows going from 55-56-57 or 57-56-55, however, in game it seems mostly to go from 57 to 55, especially when there is a ball behind the fork. Once I figured this out I was able to readjust switch 55 with the device rotating all the way around.
The fork test now seems to function fine, however some of the switches stay engaged, while others are only briefly engaged, then disengage. This doesn't seem to matter, as the motor stops appropriately either way. Every time in game when the ball went behind the fork it held it and released it as it should. The fork also raised several times during game play (I cannot claim to understand when it should rise, but it seemed normal). Now I can actually play the game and see if it's completely working as expected!
Now I just have to investigate the buzzing/rattling from the "May the force be with you" ball save diverter. Not sure I would have heard it with the glass on and volume on.
Thanks all, and I'll check back in!

That’s awesome, congrats.

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