(Topic ID: 196265)

STAR WARS Poll#5: How to fix the Endor-Ramp "Mode-Start Exploit!"


By Hoser

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 55 posts
  • 15 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Apollyon
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Topic poll

“After Shooting a Lit Planet: Should you only be able to select Modes from THAT Planet? (Read first post for Details)”

  • Riding the "Endor" Ramp to start Death Star (and other planet) Modes feels like the easy way out. I want a bit more of a challenge. Make me to shoot the other Planets to start their modes, please. 21 votes
    60%
  • I don't care for shooting a variety shots on the playfield. I want All Mode Starts, Jackpots, and Points to be at the easiest shot to hit. The "Endor" Ramp! 14 votes
    40%

(35 votes)

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#1 2 years ago

So far, Star Wars appears to be doing a good job of giving us many ways to approach the machine. Great stuff Stern! Please don't take these suggestions as criticism. Just some simple ideas on how to continue evolving an already great machine.

There appears to be an exploit for competitive play.

- The Left "ENDOR" Ramp is one of the easiest shots in the game.

- I have seen many video's of people "Safely" backhanding it repeatedly. So, why allow that ramp to start the modes of OTHER PLANETS?

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The Simple FIX to this Exploit:

- When you Shoot a Lit Planet Shot: ONLY Modes from THAT Planet become Select-able!

- HOWEVER, If you PASS (instead of starting a mode), and then SHOOT a DIFFERENT LIT PLANET SHOT, you then have the option to stack from THE TWO PLANETS YOU HAVE ALREADY VISITED. (Note: The two Lit Planets would need to be hit on the SAME BALL in Play)

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WHY DO THIS???

- It makes no sense to start a Tatooine Mission when visiting Hoth (for example)

- There is a danger of monotonous play during competition, as players will gravitate towards riding the Left "Endor Ramp" to start hard to reach planet modes (that can be easily spotted lit by the Ball Launch Path selection).

- This change helps BALANCE the game by making it difficult for players to choose which hero to bring with which path.

- This would work equally well for both Stacking or No-Stacking settings!

- With Mode Stacking turned on: The OPTION to "PASS" would become more enticing. The prospect of SHOOTING a 2nd Different Planet ON THE SAME BALL to STACK MODES would prove MORE REWARDING. (less luck ... use SKILL to earn that stack!)

#2 2 years ago

It's hard enough to light death star modes as it is

Also fuck those poll options, dude. Really?

#3 2 years ago

I hear what you're saying, but I REALLY enjoy stacking modes... wouldn't be possible if you have to hit a specific planet shot to start one.

#4 2 years ago
Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:

I hear what you're saying, but I REALLY enjoy stacking modes... wouldn't be possible if you have to hit a specific planet shot to start one.

Stacking would still be possible. Read my first post for info on how.

- It would be a really cool use of the "PASS" feature.

Steps:

1. Hit a Lit planet to expose ONLY THAT PLANET's Modes.
2. select "PASS"
3. Shoot a DIFFERENT Planet.
4. NOW you can STACK modes from the Two Planet's you've Lit and Visited.

*** Fun Risk/Reward opportunity here.

Mainly, at home you can shoot for whatever you want. I can choose to only start Missions if I hit that Planet. I know.

But to make the game "more tournament ready and fun," it would be nice to see players shoot other shots as much as the "Endor" ramp.

#5 2 years ago

Another idea I really like. Good stuff.

#6 2 years ago

I had the same thoughts already about this. Good suggestion and really hope this makes it in the game!

Or if you actually have lit the different mode shots by shooting them x times you could stack 1 other planet mode along.
Or you could stack as long as you are playing at least a mode from the shot you just made. And once that shot has no more modes to be played, you must start the other modes in one of the other shots.

But totally agree the left ramp and right small loop exploit should be covered.

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from Hoser:

Stacking would still be possible. Read my first post for info on how.

Ahhhh... very cool idea! I'm definitely guilty of starting 90% of my modes on the Endor shot. I think for this to work it would make sense to reset this on each ball... not in the sense of having to hit the shot three times... but if the player spends ball one hitting Hoth+Endor three times, and then hits Endor... and passes, and then hits Hoth again... he/she can stack w/ Endor. However, if you drain you need to hit Hoth and Endor one more time to start/stack it on ball two.

#8 2 years ago

Might be best just to have another option that users could enable/disable, like the stacking modes option.
For now, I have mode stacking "off" so I can better understand each of the modes, individually.
Once I know them all well, I plan to switch to stackable modes.

#9 2 years ago

I heard SW is already used in some tournaments. How long before the game is pulled due to this exploit?

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from Bond_Gadget_007:

I heard SW is already used in some tournaments. How long before the game is pulled due to this exploit?

It's not really an exploit to start all the modes on the left ramp, it's just easy. GOT center ramp is one of the easiest shots in pinball, and all of its modes start there.

That said, I like Hoser's idea of making a player shoot more of the playfield to start modes. Right now I light Tatooine modes off the skill shot and basically never shoot that scoop.

#11 2 years ago
Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:

Ahhhh... very cool idea! I'm definitely guilty of starting 90% of my modes on the Endor shot. I think for this to work it would make sense to reset this on each ball... not in the sense of having to hit the shot three times... but if the player spends ball one hitting Hoth+Endor three times, and then hits Endor... and passes, and then hits Hoth again... he/she can stack w/ Endor. However, if you drain you need to hit Hoth and Endor one more time to start/stack it on ball two.

You TOTALLY get it!!!!!

I love games that try to get you to do something important all on one ball!

Yet another way to get some adrenaline going on such a fast game!

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from yancy:

It's not really an exploit to start all the modes on the left ramp, it's just easy. GOT center ramp is one of the easiest shots in pinball, and all of its modes start there.
That said, I like Hoser's idea of making a player shoot more of the playfield to start modes. Right now I light Tatooine modes off the skill shot and basically never shoot that scoop.

True. It isn't "officially" an exploit.

And you got it right. The combination of spotting Tatooine or Death Star modes with the skill shot for free, and then Endor, Endor, Endor, Endor to start Tats and D-Star missions is too tempting not to do (especially in competitive play).

We need balance in the Force.

Make us want to shoot that Right Scoop for more than just the Mystery!

#13 2 years ago

Too easy shots might aswell be same as exploit. Even kids and women know how to backhand and cradle-up in 2017. There is no way any player won't just backhand this 1 shot all day long. Too bad, I was just about to consider a SW prem over AFM, but "I have a bad feeling about this"

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from Bond_Gadget_007:

Too easy shots might aswell be same as exploit. Even kids and women know how to backhand and cradle-up in 2017. There is no way any player won't just backhand this 1 shot all day long. Too bad, I was just about to consider a SW prem over AFM, but "I have a bad feeling about this"

Seems like many of you agree. The Left Endor Ramp shot is repeatable and a bit easy.

That makes for great flow!

However, if too many important shots are there, players will ignore other parts of the playfield.

My idea is meant to encourage players to shoot all over the playfield more often.

#15 2 years ago

Tell that to owners of 24, lol. I'm with you though! This will only change if someone has the ear of Stern/Dwight, maybe a Sharpe brother or Elwin can push this up the flagpole for us?

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from Bond_Gadget_007:

Tell that to owners of 24, lol. I'm with you though! This will only change if someone has the ear of Stern/Dwight, maybe a Sharpe brother or Elwin can push this up the flagpole for us?

Man, I'd love it if Sharp, Elwin, Sullivan, or Ritchie would end up reading the results of some of these polls.

I don't count on it. But who knows. There are a lot of people working for Stern, and if even just one sees something that makes sense to do ... and shares it with the Star Wars team ... wow that would be great.

Not to mention a great PR move for them to show Pinsiders that they care about us.

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from Hoser:

Man, I'd love it if Sharp, Elwin, Sullivan, or Ritchie would end up reading the results of some of these polls.
I don't count on it. But who knows. There are a lot of people working for Stern, and if even just one sees something that makes sense to do ... and shares it with the Star Wars team ... wow that would be great.
Not to mention a great PR move for them to show Pinsiders that they care about us.

Don't forget that this isn't necessarily a flaw. It could be that it was programmed this way in order to reduce the difficulty level. While I believe it makes sense to change in a tournament setting to handicap the Elwin's of the world, there's no way that players at my house are good enough to hit the Tatooine mode hole or Deathstar shot enough times in a single game. With StarWars, it's not just about progressing through all the modes, it's doing so with the highest score possible.

Suggesting that it's a great PR move to change it, and/or that it shows that they care about us is a little "off", in that you're assuming to be right and that no other opinion is valid.

#18 2 years ago

I don't consider it a flaw either. it's just a way to make the game easier and more approachable on default settings. If I were to own the game I'd turn off mode stacking to make the game more difficult because it's too easy IMO on default settings to get through all of the modes. That solves the issue and forces you to shoot all of the shots. it also makes the game feel less convoluted and allows you to feel more theme immersion as you can focus on one story mode at a time. I don't even own the game and I've already made it through all the modes in a single game a handful of times already on route.-when they spot you modes and allow you to stack it really isn't that challenging to do. Last night I had everything qualified for Jedi Multiball except "Jedi Master". I love the game but people will start getting bored of it if you can make it to the end that easily. My preference would be for mode stacking to be "off" by default as I prefer having more of a challenge. Yes, I know I can choose not to stack modes but that puts me at a disadvantage when competing against other players on location. -You have to maximize scoring using every advantage you can get!

#19 2 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

Don't forget that this isn't necessarily a flaw. It could be that it was programmed this way in order to reduce the difficulty level. While I believe it makes sense to change in a tournament setting to handicap the Elwin's of the world, there's no way that players at my house are good enough to hit the Tatooine mode hole or Deathstar shot enough times in a single game. With StarWars, it's not just about progressing through all the modes, it's doing so with the highest score possible.
Suggesting that it's a great PR move to change it, and/or that it shows that they care about us is a little "off", in that you're assuming to be right and that no other opinion is valid.

I get what you are saying about the difficulty thing. But casual or less skilled players will only get better by being challenged to shoot specific shots on the playfield. No matter what your level of play, shoot Endor, Endor, Endor is not gonna be the most satisfying experience. Making your 3rd or 4th Tatooine scoop ... will feel good to any player. Because you "did it."

Keep in mind, you can still spot those planets with your Hero Path at the plunge. Therefore, only needing to hit the scoop once to start a Tatoo Mission.

As for the PR stuff, I am not in this for personal glory. There has been a lot of negative banter about SW on Pinside, and any positive forward move by Stern directed at Pinsiders would probably help them heal some of that damage.

I am merely a regular Joe here on Pinside who is probably going to buy his first NIB. It is waaaaay out of my budget for a fancy toy. Do I care about the code? Hell yeah!

Whether they come from my suggestions or other Pinsider's response posts, the goal remains the same. We want the best code possible for all of us.

Please, stay positive. Star Wars is a fun shooting machine. Use this time to post your own ideas on how the game could be it's best!

#20 2 years ago

I get where you're coming from, and I don't think you're wrong at all. Just that this is entirely an "opinion", and not a flaw.
There's a huge difference.
Personally, I think that by allowing players to stack modes, it's a bit easier too. That's one of the reasons that I disallowed that on my setup. But some others may prefer it. Either way, it's not a "flaw", it's personal taste.
Based on what I've seen so far in the game, and knowing Stern, I expect we'll all be pretty happy with the final product (I really hope they add more snow speeder / Walker stuff!), but I guarantee that we won't all think it's exactly the way we wanted it to be. Too many varying opinions.

#21 2 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

I get where you're coming from, and I don't think you're wrong at all. Just that this is entirely an "opinion", and not a flaw.
There's a huge difference.
Personally, I think that by allowing players to stack modes, it's a bit easier too. That's one of the reasons that I disallowed that on my setup. But some others may prefer it. Either way, it's not a "flaw", it's personal taste.
Based on what I've seen so far in the game, and knowing Stern, I expect we'll all be pretty happy with the final product (I really hope they add more snow speeder / Walker stuff!), but I guarantee that we won't all think it's exactly the way we wanted it to be. Too many varying opinions.

Did you say "more Snowspeeder / Walkerstuff?)

Go to my Poll#4: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/star-wars-poll4-premle-tow-cabling-an-at-at-with-hyper-ramp#post-3918569

#22 2 years ago

"Stay on target..." consensus is that default settings on SW are too easy for most owners. I'm not afraid to fight for best code! If players are starting to loop modes on route, imagine how easy it will be if you own the game

#23 2 years ago
Quoted from Bond_Gadget_007:

"Stay on target..." consensus is that default settings on SW are too easy for most owners. I'm not afraid to fight for best code! If players are starting to loop modes on route, imagine how easy it will be if you own the game

Very interesting point.
Set stock, without increasing the ball save time, this game was eating us alive (not quite like Ghostbusters, but close).
Now that I closed in the outlane posts, increased the ball save time, and allowed an extra ball, I'm completing most of the planets on a good game.
What I like about this is that home owners will be able to tweak the game to whatever difficulty they choose. It's not a Valinor type scenario.
My suggestion is that operators leave the game as stock, or possibly even a little tougher if players are reaching Wizard mode consistently.

#24 2 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

Very interesting point.
Set stock, without increasing the ball save time, this game was eating us alive (not quite like Ghostbusters, but close).
Now that I closed in the outlane posts, increased the ball save time, and allowed an extra ball, I'm completing most of the planets on a good game.
What I like about this is that home owners will be able to tweak the game to whatever difficulty they choose. It's not a Valinor type scenario.
My suggestion is that operators leave the game as stock, or possibly even a little tougher if players are reaching Wizard mode consistently.

Also, don't forget to read my First Post on this Thread.

There is a great compromise there. A fun way to keep stacking. But you have to earn it on the same ball in play.

#25 2 years ago

A bit unrelated, but did you know that the number of balls you start with on the final mission for each planet is determined by how many modes you completed to get there?
Ie: you play as R2D2 and complete 1 Death Star mission only (two and three are spotted for you when you start the game) and you get a 2 ball multiball.
But if you select someone else and have to complete all modes manually, you start with more. (Not sure how many though. I wish I was a better player!)

#26 2 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

A bit unrelated, but did you know that the number of balls you start with on the final mission for each planet is determined by how many modes you completed to get there?
Ie: you play as R2D2 and complete 1 Death Star mission only (two and three are spotted for you when you start the game) and you get a 2 ball multiball.
But if you select someone else and have to complete all modes manually, you start with more. (Not sure how many though. I wish I was a better player!)

Yup. Complete 2 modes for 3 ball MB and 3 modes for 4 ball MB. Dwight is doing an amazing job with the code.

#27 2 years ago

Anybody seen this game used in real tournament play yet? Be curious to see if top players in the world spam the left ramp like we predict here.

#28 2 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

A bit unrelated, but did you know that the number of balls you start with on the final mission for each planet is determined by how many modes you completed to get there?
Ie: you play as R2D2 and complete 1 Death Star mission only (two and three are spotted for you when you start the game) and you get a 2 ball multiball.
But if you select someone else and have to complete all modes manually, you start with more. (Not sure how many though. I wish I was a better player!)

Seriously? That's Awesome! More balls for more completed modes!

Way to go Dwight! Like I said, I'm confident he'll give us the best code possible.

Still, no harm in us throwing a few suggestions into the pool for him to pick from, or at least keep fueling his motivation.

It is clear this is a Dream theme not just for many of us, but for Dwight and his programming team as well!

#29 2 years ago
Quoted from Hoser:

Man, I'd love it if Sharp, Elwin, Sullivan, or Ritchie would end up reading the results of some of these polls.
I don't count on it. But who knows. There are a lot of people working for Stern, and if even just one sees something that makes sense to do ... and shares it with the Star Wars team ... wow that would be great.
Not to mention a great PR move for them to show Pinsiders that they care about us.

Why not just send the suggestions to software@sternpinball.com ?

#30 2 years ago
Quoted from Bond_Gadget_007:

Anybody seen this game used in real tournament play yet? Be curious to see if top players in the world spam the left ramp like we predict here.

Almost all games have a repeatable shot. It isn't an exploit. Spamming the same shot over and over won't lead to great scoring anyway.

#31 2 years ago
Quoted from MikeS:

I don't consider it a flaw either. it's just a way to make the game easier and more approachable on default settings. If I were to own the game I'd turn off mode stacking to make the game more difficult because it's too easy IMO on default settings to get through all of the modes. That solves the issue and forces you to shoot all of the shots. it also makes the game feel less convoluted and allows you to feel more theme immersion as you can focus on one story mode at a time. I don't even own the game and I've already made it through all the modes in a single game a handful of times already on route.-when they spot you modes and allow you to stack it really isn't that challenging to do. Last night I had everything qualified for Jedi Multiball except "Jedi Master". I love the game but people will start getting bored of it if you can make it to the end that easily. My preference would be for mode stacking to be "off" by default as I prefer having more of a challenge. Yes, I know I can choose not to stack modes but that puts me at a disadvantage when competing against other players on location. -You have to maximize scoring using every advantage you can get!

Stopped out to play Star Wars on my way home from work and on my second game made it to Jedi Multiball and defeated the Emperor on my first ball! I won't spoil it but it's a pretty intense mode and was a rush to play! Once you defeat him your flippers go dead and you start the game over as a new character. Ended up putting up my best score to date. I'm thinking there must be a grander wizard mode planned for if you defeat the Emperor with all 4 characters in the same game. -probably be an hour plus game for that!

I still think default settings are too easy though and default difficulty should be turned up and perhaps mode stacking disabled by default. I have a feeling now that I've made it once it will be a pretty regular occurrence similar to how DTR was in LOTR.

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#32 2 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Why not just send the suggestions to software@sternpinball.com ?

Thanks for the suggestion. I have considered it. After a period of polling, I plan to send the most popular ideas to them (If someone on their team hasn't already been following any of these ideas). Trying to take some of the what if? work out of it for them.

Also, by throwing them out to all of you, these ideas are evolving. I have had some really good suggestions on how to tweak my initial tweaks!

So far the Tow-Cable Hyper Ramp concept (poll#4) and the request for less Fanfare Sound Effect / more Mode Specific Sound Effects (poll#1) were extremely popular!

#33 2 years ago

Maybe the game is easy settings on purpose for children? I mean younglings (sorry). Family friendly, just knock off the emporer in a couples tokens and go home. Disney might want it this way idk. Holding off until I see real players strategies, not fanboys opinions

-1
#34 2 years ago
Quoted from Bond_Gadget_007:

Maybe the game is easy settings on purpose for children? I mean younglings (sorry). Family friendly, just knock off the emporer in a couples tokens and go home. Disney might want it this way idk. Holding off until I see real players strategies, not fanboys opinions

Half the goddamn people rage quit this game because with the multipliers and *DUN DUN DUNNNN* 3rd flipper it was just too much to handle...too hard mentally to handle.
And now a bunch of people are saying the game is too goddamn easy.

Man I got no idea what's going on.

#35 2 years ago

I played a 6B yesterday, death star end mode, endor end mode, hyper space multiball and some nice 40x multiplier action.

Maybe the default for mode stacking disabled when playing the group end modes (the multiball ones) would be the better. This way you can still stack the normal I II III modes, but it removes the easy stacking together with a (multiball) end mode.

#36 2 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Half the goddamn people rage quit this game because with the multipliers and *DUN DUN DUNNNN* 3rd flipper it was just too much to handle...too hard mentally to handle.
And now a bunch of people are saying the game is too goddamn easy.
Man I got no idea what's going on.

Ha. There is a learning curve with this machine.

1. First time you play it ... it kicks your ass!
2. By game 5 or so ... you learn the easy shots and start having longer games.
3. Star focusing on 3rd button and multipliers and games get shorter again.
4. (mostly for Home users and Competitive players) You start to memorize which modes light shots at the ramps more, get better at starting Tie and Hyper Multi-balls, stack all the modes, and then before you know it ... you are going to All the mini wizard modes in one game or even on one ball. Especially, when you can play two of those mini wizards at the same time.
5. I think I heard it mentioned that Stacking is disabled on tournament mode. That proves that Stern recognizes things could get out of hand with stacking.

One dude's opinion:

Default Stacking off (even for on location play) would be nice. But nothing wrong with stacking if the player uses SKILL to earn it. That's why (in the first post) I am suggesting that you have to hit the each Planet once when flashing (On the Same Ball) to enable the right to stack. Risk/Reward. Choices.

First time you shoot a lit planet ... do you start a single mode from THAT Planet?

Or "Pass" and hope to hit another lit Planet for a chance to stack. This forces the player to use SKILL and make DIFFERENT Shots to go for the big payoffs!

Casual players just get confused by multiple modes starting at the same time anyways. They don't need to stack. Better for them to learn each mode one at a time if they just want to keep hitting the safe shots. Let them learn on Endor, Endor, Endor ... then get bored of starting those, and graduate to learning the rest of the machine. Then eventually, want to SKILL STACK themselves!

#37 2 years ago

Stack or do not Stack. There is no Skill Stack

#38 2 years ago
Quoted from Bond_Gadget_007:

Stack or do not Stack. There is no Skill Stack

Hee Hee.

Dude, I love your fun commentary! Keep it coming.

#39 2 years ago
Quoted from DavidPinballWizz:

I played a 6B yesterday, death star end mode, endor end mode, hyper space multiball and some nice 40x multiplier action.
Maybe the default for mode stacking disabled when playing the group end modes (the multiball ones) would be the better. This way you can still stack the normal I II III modes, but it removes the easy stacking together with a (multiball) end mode.

Definitely another good option!

So confusing to have multiple things going on during those important "Hot Dog" movie moments!

#40 2 years ago

This poll is BS. You either offer us the choice of voting for your personal preference, or voting for you basically calling us lazy idiots.

Quoted from zacaj:

Also fuck those poll options, dude. Really?

If I could upvote that a million times...

#41 2 years ago
Quoted from Bond_Gadget_007:

Anybody seen this game used in real tournament play yet? Be curious to see if top players in the world spam the left ramp like we predict here.

We've used it in league for several weeks. Using the Endor Ramp, or any other mode start location really, is a strategy I've shown to everyone else, because frankly, shooting the Tattoine scoop is problematic at best, and a guaranteed SDTMFM drain at worst.

#42 2 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

We've used it in league for several weeks. Using the Endor Ramp, or any other mode start location really, is a strategy I've shown to everyone else, because frankly, shooting the Tattoine scoop is problematic at best, and a guaranteed SDTMFM drain at worst.

Yet another pinsider (even one who hates my polls) who agrees. The current "Go To" strategy is to Ride the Endor Ramp Train.

You can spot the Tatooine Missions easily with some of the heros. Then Ride the Endor Ramp Train to easily start the Tattoine missions.

This means that currently, you never have to hit the Tatooine scoop once to start any of those Tatoo missions.

Meanwhile you have also lit the Endor Missions from the Endor Ramp Train simultaneously.

So, with very little Skill, and only 4 easily repeatable shots to the left ramp, you can now Stack all those modes!

Some how does not feel rewarding to stack. I want to at least earn it a bit.

#43 2 years ago
Quoted from Hoser:

Ride the Endor Ramp Train.

Yet another pinside that fails to read what was actually said, quotes it anyways, and skews it to suit their own agenda. WOW THAT NEVER HAPPENS HERE, RIGHT?

You know, for someone that has so many problems with how this game was designed, maybe you should just stop being annoying with all these posts and polls about it, and just finally admit that YOU DON'T LIKE THE GAME. Jesus Christ. There's a reason I said "or any other mode start shot".....leaving Endor for *LAST* to qualify is the smart play for those that have half a brain, because it IS the easy shot. Qualifying Death Star and Hoth on ball 1 should be priority. Then, and only then, assuming that you haven't already started a mode, should any kind of sane person other than one trying to eke out a bare minimum of points, even be thinking about shooting Endor to qualify those modes. Getting the other three going is massively more valuable than just cheesing Endor to death. Go to Endor on ball 3 if you haven't had any luck with the other ones.

I'd be fine with them removing stacking altogether after the first character is completed, as was suggested above, but you're advocating for it to be gone entirely, which is advocating for lazy play. Modes don't time out. You have to finish them either way. Eliminating stacking completely is a stupid move, especially if there is some grand plan for a massive wizard mode after finishing all characters. Really, it should be:

1st - Stacking
2nd - No stacking
3rd - Stacking
4th - No stacking

Then, you get the best of both worlds, advancement that's not INSANELY SLOW and also a bit of a reward for clearing those non-stacking sections in the form of getting to stack again then the uber wizard mode. Having all 4 be non-stacking...who the hell wants to play that game? It would take *literally* longer than getting to Valinor even if you assume the LOTR player and the SW player made a flawless series of shots to get to the end. That's just dumb.

#44 2 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Yet another pinside that fails to read what was actually said, quotes it anyways, and skews it to suit their own agenda. WOW THAT NEVER HAPPENS HERE, RIGHT?
You know, for someone that has so many problems with how this game was designed, maybe you should just stop being annoying with all these posts and polls about it, and just finally admit that YOU DON'T LIKE THE GAME. Jesus Christ. There's a reason I said "or any other mode start shot".....leaving Endor for *LAST* to qualify is the smart play for those that have half a brain, because it IS the easy shot. Qualifying Death Star and Hoth on ball 1 should be priority. Then, and only then, assuming that you haven't already started a mode, should any kind of sane person other than one trying to eke out a bare minimum of points, even be thinking about shooting Endor to qualify those modes. Getting the other three going is massively more valuable than just cheesing Endor to death. Go to Endor on ball 3 if you haven't had any luck with the other ones.
I'd be fine with them removing stacking altogether after the first character is completed, as was suggested above, but you're advocating for it to be gone entirely, which is advocating for lazy play. Modes don't time out. You have to finish them either way. Eliminating stacking completely is a stupid move, especially if there is some grand plan for a massive wizard mode after finishing all characters. Really, it should be:
1st - Stacking
2nd - No stacking
3rd - Stacking
4th - No stacking
Then, you get the best of both worlds, advancement that's not INSANELY SLOW and also a bit of a reward for clearing those non-stacking sections in the form of getting to stack again then the uber wizard mode. Having all 4 be non-stacking...who the hell wants to play that game? It would take *literally* longer than getting to Valinor even if you assume the LOTR player and the SW player made a flawless series of shots to get to the end. That's just dumb.

To answer your rant:

- I NEVER said I have problems with how the game is designed. I have always approached this from a constructive point of view. Just discussing tweaks that "may" (operative word) make the game play even better than then already great machine that it is.

- You are entitled to your view. Thank you for your input on this thread.

- You CLEARLY DID NOT READ my FIRST POST (The poll above asks you to do so). My suggestion is not for removing Stacking entirely. If you read my first post, you would see that there is a compromise there. Earn the ability to stack with a bit of Skill. Instead of it all being handed to you before you plunge.

- You have said your say. Again, thank you for that. You are entitled. If you don't want to participate constructively, and continue to brainstorm with others who have creative ideas to share, then this thread is obviously not for you, and I ask that you stop posting here.

***For everyone else. Do understand that I am not in any way bashing Star Wars for it's code. I just think that we Pinsiders have a chance to chat about code ideas. Vote on them. Stern can do with our ideas what they want. And if you doubt my intentions ... why would I still have a deposit down on a premium since 2 months now?

I could be wrong, but I am willing to bet that there are a number of other pinsiders in my position. Love the Star Wars Theme. Hoping for the best experience possible. Never spent this kind of money on a luxury toy before. A little bit passionate about it. And would love for the Machine to continue to grow and evolve into the best it can be!

Stopping people from brainstorming doesn't help anyone. Constructive chat does.

#45 2 years ago

"Eliminating stacking completely is a stupid move"

But isn't that the very option Stern just gave us was to turn On or Off stacking completely. All or nothing? I'm confused. Are you advocating for more nuance.. cause Stern don't do nuance, yo

#46 2 years ago

The bias shown in this poll is a joke and speaks volumes to the type of real info you are looking for. You don't give a shit about making the code better, you only give a shit about making the code fit your idea of what the Star Wars code should be - - and at the cost of ruining it for the countless others who actually own and love the game.

Figure out some objectiveness and pinside etiquette already; you've easily consumed your grace period of being a newbie... And yes, I'll repost this in any and all future Star Wars polls you start where you essentially give the members a choice between a cookie or a turd sandwich.

#47 2 years ago
Quoted from Bond_Gadget_007:

"Eliminating stacking completely is a stupid move"
But isn't that the very option Stern just gave us was to turn On or Off stacking completely. All or nothing? I'm confused. Are you advocating for more nuance.. cause Stern don't do nuance, yo

Right, and I'm fine with there being the *option*. Doesn't mean it will ever get used by 99% of players, because stacking is a hallmark of modern pinball code, and this game as it currently sits (with the intention to be able to add additional characters), is way the hell to deep to be solo-shooting through EVERY...BLOODY...MODE...without stacking. I don't see any way they could make qualifying stacked modes any more difficult other than just removing them, or just making some kind of ridiculous overcomplicated mess of the code (Shoot one mode start only get that shot's modes, shoot two mode starts within X seconds then get to stack modes from those two? How do you even relay that info to the player?).

And how do you figure Stern doesn't do nuance? Both Dwight and Lyman are good with that. AC/DC's scoring for Album Multiball is brilliant. Spider-Man is brilliant with the shot multipliers and rules around getting to Superhero without using an extra ball. The combo chaining bonus giving playfield multipliers is awesome. I feel like I own one of the LEAST nuanced games stern has released in recent years (Metallica), and that's still been one of their most popular games.

Games that are completely lacking any kind of nuance? WWE, Avengers, Transformers (to a lesser degree than those two..at least it has shot multipliers). Those three are the 'cream of the crud', and I actually really like Transformers. KISS is pretty straightforward too, but there's a lot to do there. Kind of like Metallica....lots to do there, but it's not hard to understand at all.

-1
#48 2 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Right, and I'm fine with there being the *option*. Doesn't mean it will ever get used by 99% of players, because stacking is a hallmark of modern pinball code, and this game as it currently sits (with the intention to be able to add additional characters), is way the hell to deep to be solo-shooting through EVERY...BLOODY...MODE...without stacking. I don't see any way they could make qualifying stacked modes any more difficult other than just removing them, or just making some kind of ridiculous overcomplicated mess of the code (Shoot one mode start only get that shot's modes, shoot two mode starts within X seconds then get to stack modes from those two? How do you even relay that info to the player?).
And how do you figure Stern doesn't do nuance? Both Dwight and Lyman are good with that. AC/DC's scoring for Album Multiball is brilliant. Spider-Man is brilliant with the shot multipliers and rules around getting to Superhero without using an extra ball. The combo chaining bonus giving playfield multipliers is awesome. I feel like I own one of the LEAST nuanced games stern has released in recent years (Metallica), and that's still been one of their most popular games.
Games that are completely lacking any kind of nuance? WWE, Avengers, Transformers (to a lesser degree than those two..at least it has shot multipliers). Those three are the 'cream of the crud', and I actually really like Transformers. KISS is pretty straightforward too, but there's a lot to do there. Kind of like Metallica....lots to do there, but it's not hard to understand at all.

99% of users won't turn Mode Stacking off???

Then why is Mode stacking default off in tournament mode? Those are the players who love stacking the most.

The home user might want a game with a more immersive story ark. Can't get fully immersed when call-outs for two different modes (from different movies and planets) come flying out.

But enough personal debating.

I'd like to make an example of your last post. The first half is aggressive at others. The second half if that post was nice and constructive. With fun facts to back things up. Even if they were against my suggestions. I welcome that kind if constructive approach.

Keep up the good work!

As for the poll options. You are right guys. In future polls, I will make the options clearer for both sides. Pull out the bias. Just understand that all I am trying to do is create awareness of small things. Keep Stern Motivated to bring us an outstanding code. Unless of coarse the the really vocal haters are actually Stern coders who are afraid to do more overtime ...

I kid ... I kid!

#49 2 years ago
Quoted from Hoser:

why is Mode stacking default off in tournament mode?

I'm pretty sure this is because, IMO, multiballs are too easy to get. That's my one actual beef with the code, but it's also why I prefer mode stacking on. Ultimately, any way it's set everyone theoretically has the same opportunity. The last thing on earth you want to do for tournament play is present really good players with easier routes to have longer balls.

Unfortunately, "tournament rules" don't always equal "fun"..... getting 5 million points instead of an extra ball from a mystery award for example...

#50 2 years ago

Currently with mode stacking "on" it's way too easy to make it through all of the modes. Then, after you beat the Emperor you have to basically start all over by choosing a new character and play through many of these same modes again. Doing this for all 4 characters would make for an incredibly long game even with stacking left on. Most modes you'd end up having to play through 2 or 3 times. I had a great game last week where I reached Jedi Multiball and defeated the Emperor ball 1 but it was kind of a buzzkill to have to basically start the game over with a new character and have to play through many of the same modes again. Reminds me of 90's games where you have to start over again after reaching the Wizard Mode in a game.

My preference would be to have mode stacking "off" which makes the journey to Jedi MB a bit longer but instead of having to play through the entire next character's mode arc, you get spotted all of the modes that you completed with your initially character. This would mean that you would most likely only have to play 1-2 modes with each of the remaining 3 characters. Once you complete all modes using a combo of all characters (and possibly some other new requirements achieved) then there could be some kind of Ultimate Wizard mode.

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