I don't agree with this statement. They did the best they could with Star Wars period. Now if JJP had the rights to have done Star Wars, holy shit. I would be owning it right now.

I don’t think Stern did the best they could. I think they did what they could within their mindset and budget sheet. Rarely do they view their games as anything but a product to put out quickly and hope to make some money. It’s not about what they can do with a theme but what theme will move the most games. There will always be an unexpected gem from Stern but that always seems like more a matter of luck than planning.

That's my point. Based on there business model, budget, how quickly they can make quick cash with nothing on the playfield. That's the best they can do. Gary is not going to load a game like WOZ or DI. Not going to happen.

Dialed in by a mile.

I agree with this.

Stern pins are littered with half hearted pins with great themes.

XM
TF
TAV
Avatar
ST

I am not saying they are all bad but they could have been a lot better given the theme and body of work they could have drawn on.

I happen to love how TWD came out but come on it's badly missing most elements of the TV show. It has some place names like Woodbury and the Prison but little else from the TV show is present like the main characters. Maybe that was intentional but I think it was said or speculated they didn't get the whole license to the TV show. IDK what happened. But TWD (I know it's great) just seems like a generic zombie pin with things like Well zombie or Bicycle girl (which probably take up 15 minutes of the series total) and some places like prison, CDC, Barn, Woodbury, crossbow and other elements from the show but no characters at all. TWD has great code but I am scratching my head to see how it is more than loosely based on the show.

To me Stern will always make good pins with code that is somewhere between great and just ok. I don't see Stern going the extra mile on every title and if I has spent money on BM66 I would be a bit worried because Stern is probably not selling a lot of them and may pull the plug once the code is up to ok level. Remember Lyman was also on Avatar and WWE so it's not like every title he is on will get Metallica or TWD treatment.

Yes I agree,Dialed In wins here! What grinds me down is the extent of already done code for SW,and they let us B66 owners get hind tit!SW is fun,but brutally fast!Many Modes,too many,I think,to keep track of what your doing! Good luck with this choice!!

That's Gold Jerry!, Gold I tell ya!

Poor Stern, just can't do any better. All that pinball talent and its just gets frittered away.

SW by two galaxies and we haven't even seen the premium/le.

Can you imagine how exciting it would be without Stern? Releasing 3 pinball machines in 7 years isn't going to get it done.

Jack has been saying for years they are going to release 2 games per year. They are doing the best that they can and just don't have the resources or capability to make more titles.

Stern deserves huge credit for saving pinball and being the main driver in keeping it going.

Btw, how much more would you like to jam on the GB pf? One of Stern's best sellers ever.

Took the family to a distributor the other day to see Starwars. My wife's comment was "well it's definitely not as nice as WOZ", and my daughter said it was easy. I said how about we sell Woz and buy starwars - both gave me a look, my daughter said "I thought you don't like the cheap ones".... and wifeypoo says "really??? I thought were getting Dialed In, your not serious are you?"
Deposits already in on DI, this was just confirming what I already knew.

Have you played the Premium/LE yet during that "enough time in"?

Great thread! I've been patiently waiting to buy a Star Wars and after the release (unless the premium looks substantially different), I went from can't wait to forget it. For me, looks among other factors play a really important part of the decision making process. Stern has spoiled me with Metallica, Aerosmith and Ghostbusters. I will not buy a car that drives well and doesn't look the part(although maybe TWD premium maybe an exception). My pins are like my car collection and in the end, I will end up looking at it more than playing it. I'm still a huge Stern fan and will eagerly await the next one. Love the way they play and I have confidence in how they have handled any issue I've had along the way.

For whatever it's worth I had a really bad experience a couple years ago on a JJP pin, dumped it and walked away thinking I'd not do business with them again. They seem to have gotten over the humps now and I'd consider doing business with them again. I cringed at the release of Dialed In just due to the name, but after seeing it and playing it many times I'm find myself leaning towards buying this one now instead of Star Wars. Who would have ever thought. It plays well and looks sharp!

My only concern is not so much the cost, but the resale. They are like GM in that they will build the hell out of this one with different versions for many years which will effect value. That aside, I think they have a winner here despite the the name.

Seems like they have addressed their production concerns though. Games are coming off the line quickly now. New release expected to be announced at Expo, they get a second title out this year.

Most recently Jack said the goal was three titles every 24 months. That's not bad at all. Wish they would snag a great action title like Deadpool, but Stern seems to be wrapping up these themes.

Sorry Murph but when you complain about TWD that's where you go down in flames

It is EPIC greatness

LCD? Oh man I'd buy another if only

Maybe a comic art version would better suite your desires? yah just never know.

Love this!! Your family is wise!!!! You have taught them well.

I just like poking the JJP bear with excellent arguments though

Just leaving the great city of rainy Lake Charles. Quick pit stop before Gavelston cruise

Went for a little jog yesterday. Omg, the heat and humidity was off the charts. Love this place

Didn't see Tillman hanging at the Nugget though

Did see that San Antonio homeboy Pat Green is coming to Nugget next month. You guys need to go see him

Where is Bigd this morning? Did you and Mountaingamer give him a break from fan club duty?

Ha Deadpool wouldn't be on JJp radar that's for sure

PM me next time you are in LC. I'll buy you a beer.

Is it the way to be still alive and built others pinball machines?

Thanks for noticing Ice - we all know your a closet JJP fanboy and just confused

Who knows - maybe more manufactures would have jumped in sooner, maybe Jack would have started JJP sooner & cranked out quality pro games - Fun to imagine!

Just required stuff - airball guard and outlane/centerpost guard to make it somewhat playable before selling it 2 months later, but sure had pretty artwork! That was the last of the hype games for me.

Thanks Man - I preach quality over quantity

I made this decision last week. I have a small route and I need casual kid-friendly titles for my customers. Both SW and DI are the only kid-friendly new games out. I would never put Alien or any Stern rock & roll pins on my route.

This was an easy decision for me: SW Pro.

I've played Dialed In enough to know that as a player I like it a lot. I can see myself buying a used DI for $6k down the road. I think the theme is colorful and friendly and the massive screen with great cartoony 3d art will pull kids in, just not as much as Star Wars. I wish Stern would invest as much as JJP did in the art, particularly the 3d work. In comparison, Stern's LCD animations look childish.

But... I think SW will be a much, much bigger draw with kids, and get me to profit faster. As other operators have noted, it's going to crush it on route on theme alone.

The other thing that I have to consider are parts and knowledge. I don't have any JJP machines, so there will be a cost to build up unique parts and a learning curve as I understand the various arcane bits of knowledge required to maintain one. HUO this is probably less of an issue, but it's very real for me.

I'm not sure there is anything wrong with this. You can have one of two kinds of companies:

1) A boutique shop that focuses on quality, packs the playfield with toys, takes a year to iron out a game and polish it to perfection, shipping low volume with high cost.

2) A large organization that focuses on low cost, rapid development, and adequate reliability and playability.

They're both valid.

JJP cannot scale up to Stern's size without having to do what Stern has done. They have to offer more than Stern to gain traction in the market. All of this is baked into how organizations scale up. Stern decided to take on investors and pursue model #2 which dictates the tradeoff between features, quality and price. This is a fundamental law of business.

I'm happy that JJP is pushing Stern to innovate faster than Stern would otherwise have done so. Stern would happily still be shipping red DMDs and incandescent lighting if not for JJP.

Btw, next Tarantino film is about the Manson murders. JJP#5?

Since this is even a possible issue and u guys don't let me sleep at night knowing I could have one good Pinball and one bad one ., I decided to buy both . Thanks a lot !

lmao

What part of this could make it shift the votes? Exploding egg looking thing? A loop that probably is just a gimmick, a cool gimmick, but still doesn't change gameplay? The rules and boring shots stay the same. The premium has to obviously be better, because right now the pro is so stripped, that it l wouldn't even consider it. I'm still considering a premium at this point, but the gimmicks won't be enough to dramatically change ones opinion on the overall game. I think at this point, we all have the basic idea if both these games, and a couple gimmicks won't change anything.

I just got done playing Star Wars Pro and DI and Tilt in Minneapolis. Both are fun games. DI feels like a 90's era game. Great lights. Flow is decent. I wasn't expecting much from SW Pro. The photos I'd seen looked pretty boring. BUT, I was pleasantly surprised. The game is LIGHTING fast! It feels a lot like Iron Man. It's basically a lot of quick loops and ramps. It's basic, surprisingly fun. The LCD screen looks amazing in person.

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IMG_3902 (resized).JPG

Played both games today and I liked them both. Completely different playing games for sure. Not sure I could ever compare the 2, but pretty sure I'd like to own both

Why? Sounds like you really don't like SW Pro, so why waste your time worrying about the Premium which as you say will be mostly the same game? Plenty of other stuff out there to spend your cash on.

Good point. I always say, play the Pinball before u buy it. Just my rule.

Just played both. Dialed in blows Star Wars away,it's got a nice 90's Williams/Bally feel to it.

That's the thing though. It's Star Wars. It shouldn't just be...basic.

I'm holding onto a small amount of hope for my dream theme SW, but right now I'm leaning towards AS with a very good chance jjp4 gets my funds over all. Like I said, the gimmicks on premium probably aren't going to change my mind, but I won't know until I see it.

Not played SW but seems to me Dwight has something regarding picking a scene/character/house with SW/Got plus video modes. I'm more interested in organic pinball rules meaning the games opens up as you play rather than needing to be studied like Magic the Gathering video game.

My observation from watching SW was that it seems to be a lot of scrolling through menus rather than playing pinball.

Haven't played a JJP game that wasn't slow and boring. GoT one of best games released ever, that's right I said ever.
To me no brainer SW premium our lease all day

Meant LE

Nope

I disagree with your first statement. WOZ is incredible, and DI is as well (I'll give you slow and boring for TH). And I agree with you about GOT. Shame people can't get past the art.

I could buy either or both, and I'm only buying a DI.

The way I look at it, DI is just a blast and reminds me of the later years B/W games, you know, full featured, fun games, but DI has even better code and all the modern upgrades. Some of you that are bashing the theme, well some of the best games to me are unique themes (Whitewater, AFM, MM, TOTAN, TOM, CV, the list goes on).

If you think about it, DI is selling very well even though a lot of people hated the theme.... imagine if JJP had released DI on the exact same playfield as Star Wars (sparse) with the exact toys modified to fit DI, ie, a crappy clam-shell toy, a toy on a stick (IE Tie fighter), etc., you wouldn't give the game a second look. The only reason some are giving Star Wars a first or second look is ON THEME ALONE. That doesn't do it for me now.

Star Wars is absolutely a dream theme for me, and I was excited to hear Stern was doing it, but I'm just not excited about what I see. Sure I may own one down the road, but as a previous owner of early code-starved pins that were extremely slow to upgrade (most notably, but not limited to, Kiss and X-men), I'm out on this one for now.

I've played one or two WOZ's at shows where the owner set them up practically flat for some reason... yes like that it's slow and boring but it's not the games fault. Any game can be slow and boring if setup wrong.

I love how Dialed In shoots. How is the sound package, and more specifically the call outs? When I have played game, I found that to be lacking. There wasn't that intensity for me in the audio package. The theme is not a deal breaker, but there are issues with it for me. I love PL, but it seemed to me that Dialed In is like a 67 year old guy telling me what the kids are into these days.

Put this poll to operators and Star Wars pro would win hands down. Based on theme alone I would say Star Wars would out earns dialled in by at least a third, I've worked off 20 fully paid plays per day for Star Wars and 15 fully paid plays for dialled ins. I have worked off a 50% share with the location owner. Even if both games depreciated at the same rate I.e lost 30% of their value after two years. Allowing for a site doing 20 games a day at $1 per game you would be almost $3000 better off with a Star Wars pro. That's not taking into account the repairs and maintenance , which one would have to presume would be far less on Star Wars based on the complexity of the machine.

So as a business which would you choose a $5500 investment that would net you $5800 in profit or an $8000 investment that would net you $3500. Even if dialled in generated the same number of plays as Star Wars you would be down $500 compared to a SW pro. Anyone that says dialled in is go to out earn Star Wars on route is kidding themselves. Anyone that says dialled in is going to have lower maintence then SW over two years on route is kidding themselves. In reality a belive you would probably double your overall earnings going with a SW pro then dialled in standard edition as an operator.

Now why is any of this important. If you are a true fan of pinball then you should pray and hope that sited pinball is still a viable option today. Yes we know that the home collector is becoming a much bigger share of the market. However if you think Stern could survive solely by selling to the home collectors and maintain their current pricing you crazy. Operators still account for at least 50% of Sterns business world wide. Pros are still Sterns biggest sellers for any machine world wide. Loose operators you loose Stern loose Stern you loose pinball manufacturing period. The hobby is not going to be sustained by JJP alone and all the other try hards that have added nothing to our hobby expect pain and frustration (spooky aside).

We should all be praising Sterns ability to deliver a great table to the masses with a killer theme at a price point that makes it a financially viable investment for operators I.e Star Wars pro. It might not be the machine you are looking for but it is the machine pinball needs to survive and flourish into the future.

This poll should be renamed if you want to see pinball in 2020 which machine would you choose.

I have a nice collection at home and feel privilege to have the games I own. However I strongly belive pinball belongs to everyone and will continue to support operators and location pinball as the mainstay of our hobby. Yes JJP could of done an amazing job with the Star Wars licence but you know what at $8k and $9k minimum purchase price they would of only produce a third or less of what Stern will with Star Wars at a $5.5k entry point. Think about that before you cast your vote

I can agree with you mostly about operators investments, and location plays, but that's not what op is asking about. The thread is based off of huo. So in a home environment, which game would guys prefer to own. DI seems to have somehow won. If I was buying to route, then yeah, I'd go SW pro for a cheap, highly recognized licensed game. Saying it like that, it kinda sounds similar to how stern was planning on handling this license in the design process. Also, if jjp had SW, it definitely would have had more to it, and people would have ponied up the extra cash I bet. Just a guess.

If you are going to route the game, yes 100% SW. Nothing on the playfield to fix and that justifies the price. But, for me I want one of the two games in my collection. With that being said it's a easy decision. DIALED IN!!!

Plus JJP has clearly stated that their games are aimed more towards the collector market that wants high end games. That alone makes a huge difference when factoring in bom and pricing. It's just different.

Im hoping to see both at CAX this year. I hope they are there.

Haven't played either.