(Topic ID: 193362)

Star Wars or dialed in???


By Mfsrc791

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 558 posts
  • 147 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by PtownPin
  • Topic is favorited by 10 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“What would you rather buy?”

  • Star wars pro 62 votes
    11%
  • Star wars le 104 votes
    18%
  • Dialed in se 148 votes
    25%
  • Dialed in le 273 votes
    47%

(587 votes)

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There are 558 posts in this topic. You are on page 11 of 12.
#501 3 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Talk to me when your 2-year-old grandson climbs up on your $300 PDI glass on your HEP IJ....and that's AFTER he pulls the key fob off and attempts to knock over your Stratocaster. Why don't I just give him a Sharpie and suggest he sign the cabinet? F him...I'll let him in when he's old enough to understand what a dick he is.

Thats friggin funny Bob.....well my twins are 8 and my son is 10 and they know enough not to stand on my Invisiglass That being said I've had 20 kids ranging from 5-11 in my games room banging away....they love it....spreading the love is how I look at it

#502 3 years ago

Find them, play them, decide on your own. Personally, I don't buy a pin anymore until the code is finished. Although, I dont need the newest shiniest pin on the block, mostly because there are too damn many really great pins that are 3+ years old.

footnote: waiting for a MET Prem from pinball refinery - Ive played it and played it and know I want it...

#503 3 years ago
Quoted from Animal:

Find them, play them, decide on your own. Personally, I don't buy a pin anymore until the code is finished. Although, I dont need the newest shiniest pin on the block, mostly because there are too damn many really great pins that are 3+ years old.
footnote: waiting for a MET Prem from pinball refinery - Ive played it and played it and know I want it...

Pinball Refinery does great work. Definitely worth the money. You won't be disappointed. MET is an incredible pin, enjoy!

#504 3 years ago

I had the same problem. My solution was -> both

The DI was my first JJP pinball machine. The DI is not only better processed, it is also much more fun than the SW. JJP has implemented the DI with great attention to detail. They want the player to enjoy Pinball.

At Stern I have the impression - the main thing is that the theme is somehow implemented. Too bad how loveless Stern implements the topics.

The ball running times at the DI are much longer. No cheap drains like the SW.

The funny thing is that even our kids prefer the DI over all other machines.

A.K

IMG_3256 (resized).jpg

#505 3 years ago

Hi,

Two month ago I would chose SW, but now I own a SW and I'm really disappointed about the SW pinball and the Stern quality, so I definitely choose the DI.
I own some more Stern Pinball machine such as Walking Dead, Star Trek, Ghost Busters and GOT, but no machine had such a poor quality as the SW. The best difference is between TWD and SW. If you play the TWD and in the next minute the SW you will be afraid touching the SW machine to hard not to damage something.

So SW was definitely the last Stern in my collection for next few years.

Kind regards
Eliottk

#506 3 years ago

Interesting opinions. My main concern with SW is node board issues and code depth.

#507 3 years ago

The main selling point of SW seems to be theme.

I prefer a quality build, an interesting layout and challenging rules, so I'm leaning toward DI.

It's cheaper to just buy a Star Wars poster or little action figures if the theme is the main thing that really excites you.

#508 3 years ago

Star Wars is the theme I most want to be good in pinball. I don't know why people keep failing to get it right. There's SO MUCH to work with there, but the games always come out deeply flawed. The new Star Wars, especially at the premium and LE level with that terrible fork ramp, is no exception. Swing and a miss once more.

Dialed In is a blast, but more importantly, it has new ideas and new types of challenges. The rules are straightforward, but very fun. The layout is fantastic and there's just enough randomness to keep you constantly on edge. The game fights back, but if you're shooting well, you can maintain control. It's a really solid effort from Lawlor.

#509 3 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

I don't know why people keep failing to get it right.

Because it's always Data East making them.

If JJP made it, you'd be singing a different tune.

#510 3 years ago

I've got no opinion on SW v DI since I've only got in a few games on DI.

But as for SW, give it an honest try before you dismiss it. The shot multiplier lane-changing is hectic fun and at least in my experience pretty unique to the pinball world. Some people just don't care for it, but I found that it "clicked" for me after a number of games and I now really enjoy the risk/reward aspect of taking my hands off the flippers to maximize scoring chances (not to mention shooting the risky standup bank to up my multiplier before taking big-points shots). People also complain about the "theme integration" but I have to disagree -- there are some fantastic modes (like Lightsaber Duel) that make great use of sound, video and lighting, and nothing beats having Harrison Ford or Carrie Fisher berating you when you shank a shot. And unlike games based on newer IP (POTC and GOTG come to mind) they've got the whole range of audio and video to play with in this game.

SW takes a few games to figure out, but is well worth your time IMO.

#511 3 years ago
Quoted from RTS:

The main selling point of SW seems to be theme.
I prefer a quality build, an interesting layout and challenging rules, so I'm leaning toward DI.
It's cheaper to just buy a Star Wars poster or little action figures if the theme is the main thing that really excites you.

My main selling point is code, although not done yet, already I love stacking modes, thinking about multipliers picking ways to play the game. Dialed in wont be like that, but will have more toys.

Then after that the theme rocks too, and its almost half the price for a pro sw vs le di. (Which were the two machines I just chose betwee, and obviously chose sw)

-2
#512 3 years ago
Quoted from pinsideuser:

The ball running times at the DI are much longer. No cheap drains like the SW.

That's not because of cheap drains it because DI is easy, SW is a great pin, if you need all that world under the glass horseshit then probably not for you, don't let the old timers and low skilled players turn you away from SW's just because its fast and challenging or isn't loaded with crap like TZ, I do enjoy playing DI but it still feels like it was made for children, the music and SFX the whole thing screams toddler time.

#513 3 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

That's not because of cheap drains it because DI is easy, SW is a great pin, if you need all that world under the glass horseshit then probably not for you, don't let the old timers and low skilled players turn you away from SW's just because its fast and challenging or isn't loaded with crap like TZ, I do enjoy playing DI but it still feels like it was made for children, the music and SFX the whole thing screams toddler time.

All depends on set up...just like any pin. My ball times on sw are similar to di . The new di code made things more difficult also out of the box.

#514 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

All depends on set up...just like any pin. My ball times on sw are similar to di . The new di code made things more difficult also out of the box.

Well I would say you have DI set up to play very fast and SW to play very slow, only way I could see that happening.

#515 3 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Well I would say you have DI set up to play very fast and SW to play very slow, only way I could see that happening.

Yep my di is brutal just like all my other b/w pins...that way they dont get boring as quickly in home use . My sm has the longest ball times and them met.

#516 3 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

That's not because of cheap drains it because DI is easy, SW is a great pin, if you need all that world under the glass horseshit then probably not for you, don't let the old timers and low skilled players turn you away from SW's just because its fast and challenging or isn't loaded with crap like TZ, I do enjoy playing DI but it still feels like it was made for children, the music and SFX the whole thing screams toddler time.

SW is average at best (I own both)....everything about DI is better than SW....sound, music, graphics, game play, quality, code, etc....its not even close

#517 3 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

SW is average at best (I own both)....everything about DI is better than SW....sound, music, graphics, game play, quality, code, etc....its not even close

And yet, somehow, SW is still more addictive and fun to play. Go figure. (Although, I'll grant you that SW is missing a ringing cell phone, emojis, selfies, and Flo from the Progressive commercials.)

#518 3 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

And yet, somehow, SW is still more addictive and fun to play. Go figure. (Although, I'll grant you that SW is missing a ringing cell phone, emojis, selfies, and Flo from the Progressive commercials.)

Op person owns both.... do u ? His opinion is his opinion and yours is yours. No right or wrong awnser..... just preference. Just like i prefer dile ... dont mean sw sucks tho. People take things way to serious anymore.... its pinball for goodness sake lol.

#519 3 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

And yet, somehow, SW is still more addictive and fun to play. Go figure. (Although, I'll grant you that SW is missing a ringing cell phone, emojis, selfies, and Flo from the Progressive commercials.)

I picked up both recently and agree SW is more addictive. Adrenaline rush. From my perspective, the difference between SW and DI is like the difference between many Stern and B/W pins (serious, kick your butt vs. amusing, longer ball times).

No doubt that if you are looking purely at the Bill-Of-Materials, DI is a better value. The software and theme integration are harder for folks to quantify, but I think SW has awesome rules and theme integration (just wish they'd add a few more callouts).

snaroff

#520 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Op person owns both.... do u ? His opinion is his opinion and yours is yours. No right or wrong awnser..... just preference. Just like i prefer dile ... dont mean sw sucks tho. People take things way to serious anymore.... its pinball for goodness sake lol.

I COULD own both if I wanted to. DI has amazing gameplay...no argument there. But the theme and all the aforementioned stuff above is just obnoxious. I can't get past it. I'll gladly play it at shows (or yours if you'll have me over!), but there's no way I could ever see myself putting one in my house. In this case, I think theme trumps BOM. Gameplay on both are incredible.

-1
#521 3 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

.sound, music, graphics, game play, quality, code, etc....its not even close

Yeah it is, SW has much better sound, music, comparing the the graphics and giving the upper hand to DI is a joke and code wise they are way too different in style, either you like DI or SW but for me one isn't better than the other. "build quality"

#522 3 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Yeah it is, SW has much better sound, music, comparing the the graphics and giving the upper hand to DI is a joke and code wise they are way too different in style, either you like DI or SW but for me one isn't better than the other. "build quality"

Not even close on the sound quality....I think most would agree.....I think u need to buy a JJP machine so you can actually do a real comparison....I have several Sterns, and JJP machines sitting right next to one another...its not even close

#523 3 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Not even close on the sound quality....I think most would agree.....I think u need to buy a JJP machine so you can actually do a real comparison....I have several Sterns, and JJP machines sitting right next to one another...its not even close

I upgrade the speakers on all my B/W and Stern games, and the sound on SW is the best of all the machines I own. It sits right next to my WOZ. Now, to be fair, WOZ isn't upgraded, and it is four years old already. Not sure how much better the sound is on the newer machines when you crank 'em up. I really wish I could blink all these naysayers to my place for a beer so you could see and hear what I am. It's frustrating.

#524 3 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

Not even close on the sound quality....I think most would agree.....I think u need to buy a JJP machine so you can actually do a real comparison....I have several Sterns, and JJP machines sitting right next to one another...its not even close

I'm sure the actual quality is better although I don't notice it very much from Stern to JJP, but I would rather listen to Sabbath through an old beat up mono hifi than Taylor Swift through a 2k super system, I've never upgraded the sound or added sub woofer's to my pins so I won't comment on audio quality, but I will on the sounds themselves and in that sense SW win, its not even close.

#525 3 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

That's not because of cheap drains it because DI is easy, SW is a great pin, if you need all that world under the glass horseshit then probably not for you, don't let the old timers and low skilled players turn you away from SW's just because its fast and challenging or isn't loaded with crap like TZ, I do enjoy playing DI but it still feels like it was made for children, the music and SFX the whole thing screams toddler time.

I guarantee you that you can't get to Armageddon. Dialed In is a MUCH harder pinball machine than Star Wars. Saying that DI is easy is laughable.

Just like the early Hobbit defenders (those who bought one or shared their positive opinions before even trying it), the early Star Wars defenders will drop off. Star Wars is not a good game, especially compared with other recent releases. It has some bonehead design decisions (that hyperloop and jump fork are pinball garbage), it has some baffling code decisions, and it apparently takes dozens of hours of tweaking before it's not annoying to play. I've yet to play a Star Wars that didn't have aggravating issues.

But Star Wars is definitely not hard. You'll see the end of that game 20 times before you see the end of Dialed In once.

#526 3 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

I guarantee you that you can't get to Armageddon. Dialed In is a MUCH harder pinball machine than Star Wars. Saying that DI is easy is laughable.
Just like the early Hobbit defenders (those who bought one or shared their positive opinions before even trying it), the early Star Wars defenders will drop off. Star Wars is not a good game, especially compared with other recent releases. It has some bonehead design decisions (that hyperloop and jump fork are pinball garbage), it has some baffling code decisions, and it apparently takes dozens of hours of tweaking before it's not annoying to play. I've yet to play a Star Wars that didn't have aggravating issues.
But Star Wars is definitely not hard. You'll see the end of that game 20 times before you see the end of Dialed In once.

Ur not fooling anyone, it appears that SW was a very important theme for u and they let u down, that makes it all but impossible it seems for you to get any enjoyment out of it at all, no matter on how well the code developes or gameplay thrills, I can't take anything you say regarding SW seriously, calling the hyperloop and fork jump garbage just proves it even further, I wish you could get over it becasue its a great pin, but I can't over the theme and kiddie feel of DI so I'm not one to talk I guess, I would use garbage as a term to describe Build it bob and whatever the woman is supposed to be in the back, not too mention the very shall I say happy style cell phone on the PF, all garbage, but if I was to put serious time on Dialed In they I would get to Armageddon pretty damn quick, you have no knowledge of my skills.

#527 3 years ago

Star wars is great so far, no issues at all out of the box, didnt have to adjust one switch even. Not to mention its the nicest playfield in terms of clear, no issues with inserts or anything I've gotten on a stern before.

#528 3 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Ur not fooling anyone, it appears that SW was a very important theme for u and they let u down, that makes it all but impossible it seems for you to get any enjoyment out of it at all, no matter on how well the code developes or gameplay thrills, I can't take anything you say regarding SW seriously, calling the hyperloop and fork jump garbage just proves it even further, I wish you could get over it becasue its a great pin, but I can't over the theme and kiddie feel of DI so I'm not one to talk I guess, I would use garbage as a term to describe Build it bob and whatever the woman is supposed to be in the back, not too mention the very shall I say happy style cell phone on the PF, all garbage, but if I was to put serious time on Dialed In they I would get to Armageddon pretty damn quick, you have no knowledge of my skills.

So...you're admitting that you've barely played it. This is why nobody takes you seriously around here. Maybe also that you typed that all as one single sentence. That's impressive for all the wrong reasons.

If all you care about is theme, then by all means, have at it. I actually like playing pinball. If you can't admit that the fork ramp is stupid, then I question your judgment, because it's objectively stupid to have something in a game that acts as a ball hangup several times a ball. It's objectively stupid to have something that's not very reliable introduced as the "premium" addition to a pinball machine.

Also, if you're going to talk about pinball machines, PLEASE talk about the actual playing of the pinball machines. You don't do that, and it's like trying to discuss sports with a cat. I guess there's no point.

#529 3 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

I would use garbage as a term to describe Build it bob and whatever the woman is supposed to be in the back, not too mention the very shall I say happy style cell phone on the PF, all garbage

LOL at this guy!!!!

#530 3 years ago

I think the poll speaks for itself. SW isn't terrible but it's not in the same category as dialed in. If Steve had more money and more of a leash, he could have done alot more with SW. Stern knew that the theme will sell it alone

Screenshot_20171106-115949 (resized).png

#531 3 years ago
Quoted from Mfsrc791:

I think the poll speaks for itself. SW isn't terrible but it's not in the same category as dialed in. If Steve had more money and more of a leash, he could have done alot more with SW. Stern knew that the theme will sell it alone

Good thing polls are meaningless to me or I'd be watching the Kardashians.

(I'd also love to know how many who voted spent a decent amount of time on both machines in a home environment.)

#532 3 years ago
Quoted from Hazoff:

Theme is part of the gameplay, it affects the kind of music that's played, the callouts, the connection one can feel with the game

It's hard to understand the nerd mentality that thinks Star Wars is a cool theme.

You may hate DI's theme, but make no mistake, if you love the SW theme, you are still a goofy nerd.

You only need to watch a few seconds to understand (but it's worth watching it all.)

#533 3 years ago
Quoted from RTS:

make no mistake, if you love the SW theme, you are still a goofy nerd

Epic burn!

#534 3 years ago
Quoted from RTS:

It's hard to understand the nerd mentality that thinks Star Wars is a cool theme.
You may hate DI's theme, but make no mistake, if you love the SW theme, you are still a goofy nerd.
You only need to watch a few seconds to understand (but it's worth watching it all.)
» YouTube video

What's that say about Yankees fans? (And psst!!! We're ALL nerds in this hobby. Ever been to a pinball show?)

#535 3 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

Just like the early Hobbit defenders (those who bought one or shared their positive opinions before even trying it), the early Star Wars defenders will drop off.

This kind of statement is where you go from sounding reasonable (I've played it and I don't like it, despite my undying love for the Star Wars theme) to unreasonable (I don't like it, therefore no one can really like it and they'll all change their minds one day, you'll see).

It's well established that you were disappointed with Stern's SW -- you hate the shot multiplier mechanic (which is central to the gameplay), and you think the Hyperspace ramp sucks. That's all fair, but there's no reason to stoop to the "no, you're a fan boy" level of argument. Attack the other guy's argument, not his character, as the old saying goes.

#536 3 years ago

It wasn't a burn at all.

Watch the video. Taken from a Conan show.

-1
#537 3 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

This kind of statement is where you go from sounding reasonable (I've played it and I don't like it, despite my undying love for the Star Wars theme) to unreasonable (I don't like it, therefore no one can really like it and they'll all change their minds one day, you'll see).

I'm not saying that nobody will like it, but I'm saying it will generally become accepted that it's just not that great of a game. The Hobbit still has its fans, but it has settled in to be a below average game. Unless they have some code wizardry in store, I am fairly confident that we'll see the same sort of thing with Star Wars. It will always have its fans, but it's going to be viewed in the long term as one of Stern's more weak recent efforts. There's almost no doubt that it will be viewed as a missed opportunity due to the theme as well.

It's not like The Avengers or WWE where it's a total dumpster fire. But man, it's just...not good. It's a step back from its predecessor, Game of Thrones, which probably compounds the disappointment. Fast forward a couple of years, and I'm sure GoT will ultimately be thought of as the better game.

#538 3 years ago
Quoted from RTS:

It's hard to understand the nerd mentality that thinks Star Wars is a cool theme.
You may hate DI's theme, but make no mistake, if you love the SW theme, you are still a goofy nerd.
You only need to watch a few seconds to understand (but it's worth watching it all.)
» YouTube video

Hilarious

-1
#539 3 years ago

By the way, on theme, SW is better. You have the best sci fi franchise out there against a Sim City disaster game. Not hard to pick a winner on theme there. But theme is essentially the last element when it comes to what makes a game fun. Gameplay is and will always be king.

#540 3 years ago
Quoted from RTS:

It wasn't a burn at all. Watch the video. You might be in it. Taken from a Conan show.

Nah, if I turn up being interviewed by Triumph it'll be at the Great American Beer Festival (I saw him there, but was too sober to walk into that buzz saw). It is some funny shit though.

#541 3 years ago

I dunno man. I put in a lot of coin locally on Star Wars pro over the last few months, and absolutely fell in love with it. So much so that I went out and bought one. I don’t get the hate that the game gets on this forum. Meanwhile, when I’m playing with other local folks on location, all I hear is praise.

I play Dialed-In on location as well, and it’s a good game, don’t get me wrong, but the hate for SW on this forum is a bit over-blown on to me.

All the more reason why it’s important to go out and play these games yourself before deciding what to spend your money on.

#542 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Op person owns both.... do u ? His opinion is his opinion and yours is yours. No right or wrong awnser..... just preference. Just like i prefer dile ... dont mean sw sucks tho. People take things way to serious anymore.... its pinball for goodness sake lol.

As a matter of fact I do own both....and I never stated that SW sucks....not sure where u got that?

-1
#543 3 years ago

Finally got a chance to play a Star Wars Pro over the weekend. My first thought while looking at the game is similar to a line that C-3PO himself says in Episode 4 "What a desolate place this is".

The game played super fast but I don't consider that a compliment, not when the game costs $5500-$8500 depending on model...The game plays so fast as there's really nothing that interacts with the ball. I'll play the game on location but can't see owning one due to a lack of features.

I would still like to play a premium. I'm sure code development will continue to improve the game.

#544 3 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

The Hobbit still has its fans, but it has settled in to be a below average game. Unless they have some code wizardry in store, I am fairly confident that we'll see the same sort of thing with Star Wars.

My friend owns a Hobbit and would agree with you. BUT...he also played my SWLE and is now tempted to drop his POTC CE order to get one. So if JJP's POTC is better than Hobbit, then an argument can be made that in some people's eyes, SW is better than both, regardless of BOM.

But here's the bottom line: Two completely different games CAN BOTH BE GREAT in two completely different ways. I think that's the case with this comparison. It's a shame that people can't see the positives in both games.

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

The game played super fast but I certainly don't consider that a compliment, not when the game costs $5500-$8500 depending on model...The game plays so fast as there's really nothing that interacts with the ball. I'll play the game on location but can never see owning one due to a lack of features.

You just described Attack from Mars.

#545 3 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

I guarantee you that you can't get to Armageddon. Dialed In is a MUCH harder pinball machine than Star Wars. Saying that DI is easy is laughable.
Just like the early Hobbit defenders (those who bought one or shared their positive opinions before even trying it), the early Star Wars defenders will drop off. Star Wars is not a good game, especially compared with other recent releases. It has some bonehead design decisions (that hyperloop and jump fork are pinball garbage), it has some baffling code decisions, and it apparently takes dozens of hours of tweaking before it's not annoying to play. I've yet to play a Star Wars that didn't have aggravating issues.
But Star Wars is definitely not hard. You'll see the end of that game 20 times before you see the end of Dialed In once.

The Hobbit has been out for a over a year now and still ranks in the top 30, that's not below average. I certainly don't consider any game in the top 50 to be below average, especially with the number of new pins coming out.

Code development and excellent use of licensed assets have helped make the Hobbit a great game.

#546 3 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

My friend owns a Hobbit and would agree with you. BUT...he also played my SWLE and is now tempted to drop his POTC CE order to get one. So if JJP's POTC is better than Hobbit, then an argument can be made that in some people's eyes, SW is better than both, regardless of BOM.
But here's the bottom line: Two completely different games CAN BOTH BE GREAT in two completely different ways. I think that's the case with this comparison. It's a shame that people can't see the positives in both games.

You just described Attack from Mars.

Attack from Mars has two hidden shots, a moving space ship toy, a motorized target bank, a shot behind the target bank with a drop target, metal ramps, and moving martians. That's far more then what Star Wars has.

Star Wars could have been incredible if a motorized target bank was in front of the mini LCD with a shot behind it. A lot of people were hoping for that. Combine that with a magnet in front of the target bank and you have a very interactive and fun area to shoot for. Then it would be more like AFM.

#547 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

The Hobbit has been out for a over a year now and still ranks in the top 30, that's not below average. I certainly don't consider any game in the top 50 to be below average, especially with the number of new pins coming out.
Code development and excellent use of licensed assets have helped make the Hobbit a great game.

The Pinside rankings in no way reflect the common opinion of a game among pinball players. They're so heavily manipulated by people scoring the stuff they own insanely high and low scoring the stuff that they don't. Pinside is also a very small slice of the pinball community. Most people I know in pinball don't post on Pinside, and of those that do, not all of them participate in the rankings. General opinion of The Hobbit off of Pinside is not what I would consider favorable, and on Pinside it slips more and more with time.

#548 3 years ago

I'm going to go talk to a lamppost now.

#549 3 years ago

It's not about how much is in the game. The sparse nature of Star Wars is not a problem. The majority of the issues stem from the major disconnect between layout and code. If you too Wizard of Oz's code and put it on a very fast shooting game, it wouldn't work well. Game of Thrones has the perfect balance between a fast layout and the amount of depth that made sense for that layout. Star Wars overly complicated things. A lot.

#550 3 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Op person owns both.... do u ? His opinion is his opinion and yours is yours. No right or wrong awnser..... just preference. Just like i prefer dile ... dont mean sw sucks tho. People take things way to serious anymore.... its pinball for goodness sake lol.

Quoted from PtownPin:

As a matter of fact I do own both....and I never stated that SW sucks....not sure where u got that?

He was quoting beelzeboob, not you. In fact, by "Op person owns both" I'm pretty sure he meant you, and was trying to defend your basis for arguing that DI is better!

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