(Topic ID: 198394)

Star Wars LE is likely my last new Stern Machine

By glasairpilot

6 years ago


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  • 224 posts
  • 89 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Zitt
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider rarehero.
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#78 6 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Wow! Lets all stop buying NIB machines so all the pinball factories can close. Bit like the same thing that happened in the late 90's. Were you guys around then? Gary Stern was the only person with the drive and passion to keep pinball manufacturing alive. Stern still happen to be the largest manufacturer of pinball machines in the world.
Driving away pinball enthusiasts that like Stern machines is not good for Pinside either. Maybe instead of hating one manufacturer you can start loving another? You guys are doing your best to destroy our much loved hobby. You are a disgrace to the silver ball.

Sycophant ALERT!!!!

We are not OBLIGATED to buy pinball machines. Stern is not ENTITLED to my money. They still need to create a well made product that has some value for what it costs. You're saying you'll buy garbage for $8k+ to keep their doors open? Enjoy....but don't call those of us who refuse "disgraces".

The "hobby" will always exist. New manufacturers give us choices, but they're irrelevant to "the hobby". The hobby = pinball...there will always be TONS of pinball machines in circulation when no one is making them anymore. If any new game manufacturer is "destroyed", it's due to their own actions, not the customer base rejecting their product.

Do you even know why Williams closed in the 90's? The arcade was dying, and pins didn't earn on location. There was no "home market". Slot machines made more money for them, so they quit. Why did Gary keep doing it? Cuz he had no competition and could eek out a living as the only manufacturer of a niche retro coin-op device.

#83 6 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

6. How many have you bought?

Everyone whip their dicks out!

Cuz that's what this is.

No one wants to see it. (I think)

#84 6 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

You and I are on the same page, I agree with most of what you say and I do believe that you want our hobby to survive and flourish.

This can't be said enough: NIB Sales are not "THE HOBBY". Pinball can and will exist without new games, if that's what it comes down to.

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#90 6 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Unfortunately it is people like you that are destroying this hobby.

-I've saved countless games from destruction, repaired & restored them, and put them back out into the world as fully functional games.
-I've helped countless people with issues and helped them fix their games.
-I've helped countless people understand the rules of lots of games.
-I've sent TONS of new customers to my fav distributor, giving him lots of new business.
-I've worked with Stern in an official capacity.
-I've worked with Stern unofficially, helping them bug test and giving advice on code...my help has ended up in the games.
-I've helped ColorDMD bug testing and giving advice on tons of games.
-I've helped friends open a local barcade.

...so, am I really "destroying this hobby"? How about we dial it down with this "destroying the hobby" nonsense....since you clearly don't even understand a thing about what this "hobby" actually is.

WTF have YOU done for "the hobby"!??!?!

#92 6 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Rarehero, You have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing that destroys a company is not enough sales.

You have no idea what you're talking about. A company doesn't get enough sales by making a product not enough people want. It's on a company to EARN sales. They're not ENTITLED to sales. Make a great product, sales will come. If sales don't come, that's the fault of the company.

32
#104 6 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Dude, that is sensational stuff! We do the same for as many people as we can. This is what must be done to keep the hobby alive. Why bag Stern product so much? Lets just agree to dis agree. I am good with that.

I own 7 Stern games. Games I consider KEEPERS cuz they're THAT good. I've owned lots of others that I still like, even though I've let them go. I was defending Stern and their games since '06 or so. Most pinball hobbyists and collectors HATED Stern and shunned them...to them, only Bally Williams were worth playing/owning. Stern has made some great games...but I have the perspective of a decade in the hobby to see where Stern was back then and where they are now. They were making full featured games with GOOD and either complete or relatively complete code for less than $4k. Updates came quick when there were bugs. Prices rose, but I understood and respected their Pro/Prem/LE business plan. I was OK with buying an LE like Metallica...it was $800 more than the Premium, and that seemed reasonable for the value you got with that version. Prices kept going up after that, but the games were getting more stripped down in quality.

Here's why I bag on Stern so much now...for me, 2016 was the breaking point. I was super excited for Ghostbusters, and put in an order on the Premium, and then we had "insert gate". My game was delayed because of the insert issue, and in the meantime - I actually went out and played the Pro...and just absolutely hated it. Couldn't believe how terrible it was designed and how awful the code was. I stuck with my order since I loved the theme so much and was told the ghosting issue would be solved by the time the Premiums were ready. I played 2 brand new Premiums that both had ghosting within days of being opened...so, not only was the ghosting fix a lie, I still hated the game. I finally cancelled my order...cuz why would I buy a game I not only hate, but basically falls apart when you open it? So - there was that - THEN - the absolute ARROGANCE and GREED of the Batman '66 situation. $15,000 for a STERN!?!?!?!? Right after GB showed they cheaped out on quality playfields!??!?!?! Then it comes out with pre-prototype code and is STILL unfinished almost a year later.

Then we had splitting cabinets, node board issues, reset issues, bare-bones Star Wars, more goofy code....

This is why I'm not into Stern right now. Prices up, quality and fun factor down. Simple. If they ever get their shit back together, I'd consider being a customer again...right now? No F'ing way. ...and, once again - me not buying product I don't like doesn't mean I'm "destroying the hobby". I'm having much more fun with $60 Nintendo Switch games, and that's given me even more perspective about how insane it is to spend $8000 on a GAME.

#106 6 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Please accept my public apology. We are both extremely passionate about our much loved hobby. I think that you are more passionate than I am. Our situation is different to yours. This hobby is a sickness but we all love it and that is why we are on here. Yes we are defensive of Stern, but we are also defensive of every manufacturer. We need as many of them to survive as possible. There are no where near enough machines to go around in Aus and NZ at the moment.

Apology accepted. Passion isn't a contest....we all love pinball, and we all do it in different ways.

#142 6 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

I still think AS is sterns best game since Metallica and am shocked it has not taken off and done better.

Theme. Aerosmith just doesn't inspire the "fuck yeah, COOOL!!!" passion. That Met & ACDC do. And on top of that, it's not as good of a game as Met. I think it got a lot of credit for not being a total bungle like the last few games - it's competent...but it's still extremely uninspired and generic. Somehow it lacks personality and certain spark, even tho it has a great art package and cool main toy.

One of the local barcades just swapped it out for something else already. Even being their only Color LCD game - no one was playing it. That's a testament to the "turn off factor" of the theme.

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#150 6 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

The main toy in AS is creative and a lot of fun. I think if and when Stern actually fine tunes the code it could right up there with Met and ACDC....

Why do you believe they'd fine tune it? It's done. Lyman did ACDC and Metallica - Aero will never have the amount of nuance and depth as those games. I think Lonnie did a good job with Aero in the sense that it launched complete & the game "knows what it is"...but it's just kind of a generic game like Kiss. I'll give Lonnie credit though, I think he might be the smartest one there. He knows he has limited time and won't have time to revisit a game if it launches incomplete...so, he does what he knows - the game gets out the door, and you can play it and it all works.

We've been really lucky with Lyman games, because he wants to make something amazing every time despite Stern not giving him the time to do so...so, his games launch with early code and he works on his own time to give us great games. But honestly, I don't think Stern really cares or appreciates what he brings to the table and all the free work he does in his own time. I'm not a fan of people working for free...but I see artists do it ALL THE TIME. They do it because they love their art, but in a commercial job, they're really just being taken advantage of. For Lyman's sake - I hope he realizes he doesn't have to outdo himself every time...he should take a cue from Lonnie...if they only give him 4 months to code a game, give Stern what they're paying for...a "4 month game". Simple, functional, everything lights up and works...but don't give them art. He's proven over and over that he can give them art that sells games....but, they're not paying for art. So, give them what they're paying for.

#159 6 years ago
Quoted from spinal:

In an environment where everything is being cut (magnets from SW and LE stripping down to nothing special anymore)

Why do people keep saying magnets were cut from Star Wars? I think this is just something people WISH the game had...but if they were never planned in the first place, then they were never cut. Technically it does have magnets - that's what whooshes the ball around the hyper loop thingie.

#162 6 years ago
Quoted from dnapac:

Somewhere on here is a playfield layout drawing of 3 different stages (graphics, etc). The main layout remained the same, but there was a magnet in front of the small lcd screen in one of the drawings...not sure which star wars thread had it. I asked the same question a couple weeks ago.

Gotcha! Well - sometimes things change during production due to creative reasons & not cost. People would probably still say "it's bare" with or without that magnet.

19
#167 6 years ago
Quoted from dnapac:

I personally don't think this is a bare playfield.

Please play more pinball

Iron Man was once known as the most stripped down "cheap" game ever....but even Iron Man has a really cool reveal of a bash toy, and that bash toy has a magnet in front to attack you back...plus Whiplash's magnet that "whips" the ball around & War Machine's "cannon" kickback. This was a game that was slightly less than $4k at launch, and initially was TORN TO SHREDS....but compared to Star Wars, IM seems full featured. SW Pro is $5400 and has nothing on the playfield to interact with at all. It's got an LCD (zzzz), a Tie Fighter on a spring (lol), and a Death Star that does nothing. All 3 of Iron Man's main features, despite being simple or recycled, fit the theme perfectly. Nothing on the SW playfield is exciting or really relevant to the theme.

#171 6 years ago
Quoted from jar155:

Iron Man also has code that's well-suited to its layout. Nothing cute or fancy, but challenging and satisfying.
I don't know that a magnet would have been good for Star Wars. That game is meant to be breakneck fast and full of precise flow. I think the code is a misfire on that game. It doesn't support the design well. They make for an odd pairing.

Bingo. I always thought Steve was a really odd match for themes like SW Trilogy and GOT ...that non-stop speed doesn't really lend itself to those themes and the coding depth that's attempted within those designs.

#172 6 years ago
Quoted from dnapac:

I said "personally". I respect if you feel that way, but I don't. I think the integration of the displays and modes is great, and I love the speed and rush. Again, I think it's a great pin, don't criticize me if you don't feel the same. I wish I could play tons of pinballs, but I don't live in an area that has a lot.

I'm not criticizing you. I'm criticizing the playfield. Obvious bare is obvious. If you enjoy the game, that's fine...but you can't convince people with eyes that the playfield has features on it.

#176 6 years ago
Quoted from glasairpilot:

Thank you, and I apologize for associating the two. I don't care if a game has trashy language or if people use bad language as it is their choice. I find it troubling that in a public forum people can't be courteous enough to not throw the f-bomb around when they do not know who their audience is. I just grow tired of hearing adults talk like a 9 year old that heard the f word for the first time.

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#193 6 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

Why would they "fix" this? That's how slingshot work. Even regular slings toss the ball to the outlane constantly. A good player keeps control of the ball and avoids the slings. The slings are always a massive danger zone. Not a bug. Should not be fixed.

Normal slings don't just drop the ball down the middle. Dopey magna slings do. Just one of the many things GB does that doesn't respect the player's skill. You're right tho, there's nothing to fix. The game was designed to play like shit, so - it is what it is.

12
#213 6 years ago
Quoted from Apollyon:

Licensing restrictions. I spoke directly to Steve Ritchie about this regarding Star Wars. Simple as that.

Licensing restrictions don't lead to bad art. Licensing restrictions may limit them to certain assets, but a good artist can then arrange those assets into something nice. Stern often has problems using assets in a good way. Look at the first version of The Hobbit playfield vs. the revised version. Two different artists take on the same licensed assets. It's night and day. When Stern Photoshops assets, they're generally pretty bad at it...and they don't stop production to revise like Jack did - factory's gotta keep churning product.

Anyway, "it's the licensor's fault" is only half the story. The other half is the artist assigned to the project and what they bring to the table. There's a reason most of Steve's games don't fare well in the art department - he doesn't have an eye for art direction & the artists he works with don't have any incentive to push themselves.

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