(Topic ID: 198394)

Star Wars LE is likely my last new Stern Machine

By glasairpilot

6 years ago


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  • 224 posts
  • 89 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Zitt
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#34 6 years ago
Quoted from DaveH:

The market can't support 9k machines. Granted, I've been saying that since I was saying it couldn't support many 8k games, but I still think it. I bought exactly one 8k game, and I hated having that much wrapped up in one game. It's long gone.
I'm not saying the sky is falling. I'm not saying used prices are going to drop. I'm saying the number of people that can afford to drop that kind of cash on a single game is pretty small. And small markets tend towards being buyers markets.

You mean like Ferrari, right? Every market is different and unique in its own way. I have a different opinion. Very small market normally equates to high margin to stay in production. The percentage of people that can afford to drop that kind of cash on a single game is pretty small. That still equates to a lot of people that have disposable income to buy a NIB pinball machine. We have to line up and fork out most of the money upfront in Australia to get a NIB.

While ever demand is higher than supply prices will continue to rise. Like most markets there will have to be a correction at some point.

-18
#74 6 years ago

Wow! Lets all stop buying NIB machines so all the pinball factories can close. Bit like the same thing that happened in the late 90's. Were you guys around then? Gary Stern was the only person with the drive and passion to keep pinball manufacturing alive. Stern still happen to be the largest manufacturer of pinball machines in the world.

Driving away pinball enthusiasts that like Stern machines is not good for Pinside either. Maybe instead of hating one manufacturer you can start loving another? You guys are doing your best to destroy our much loved hobby. You are a disgrace to the silver ball.

#80 6 years ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

How many NIB Sterns have you bought in the last 10 years?

6. How many have you bought?

#82 6 years ago
Quoted from Procrastinator:

Pfft, where to start, but it's clear you miss the point. No one wants stern to fail, that's ridiculous. A lot do however, want stern to find the balance between customer satisfaction and profit.
You however, are advocating for blind loyalty which is insane. What if they just sold a cab and playfield with two flippers and nothing else for $10k. Do you buy it because "stern saved pinball"? What's your squeak point? Of course you don't buy it, and company history only buys you so much good will. The fact that some people have decided enough is enough is understandable to me.
I think everyone agrees stern has the capabilities to make fun games, and most of the time does. But if they were to focus a little more on the customer, and less on the bottom line I think the sales increase would cover additional costs.
To each their own I guess.

I am not advocating blind loyalty. We are probably one of Sterns biggest complainers. We lodge with them all our issues on every machine both NIB and second hand. We do not start rumours on Pinside or post negativity on the FB site. We deal directly with Stern and our Distro. Every issue we have ever had has eventually been resolved. This is what we are all about. You have to remember that we live in Australia and do not have many choices. There are only 2 distros for all manufacturers and I must say, both distros do a fantastic job. You and I are on the same page, I agree with most of what you say and I do believe that you want our hobby to survive and flourish.

#85 6 years ago
Quoted from glasairpilot:

Hmmm..... Please read my initial post. I am not advocating anyone boycotting or running anyone out of business. My point was simply that I am no longer comfortable pay $9k for a machine that I feel could have been much better and since it is top of the line should have all the options at that price level.
Let's go back to 2013 and compare SWLE to STLE. There is no comparison in the WOW factor and my old STLE has a red DMD instead of a fancy screen. The translight is so much nicer in the STLE and the LED side rails make it pop in the room. The laser is really cool and the game is more fun to play. Try to find a STLE for under $8k. Better yet, try to find one for sale at all. You can still buy a NIB SWLE for less than retail. SWLE should have come standard with a shaker, a real translight, side rails that looked like light sabers (red on one side and green on the other), and integration of laser lights and magnets to tap into the space theme. Yes, it did get a hyperloop and a death star that opens like an umbrella. The hyperloop is cool - the deathstar is just ok, and the rest sucks compared to STLE. STLE will always be worth more even though the movie and hype is not as hot as Star Wars.

I have no issue with you or what you posted. Value is a perception and everybody's perception is different. We are all entitled to our opinions. My statement is directed at Pinsiders determined to destroy this hobby, not you. If you do not like a machine, do not buy it. That is the only statement required that will affect any product on any market.

-6
#86 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

This can't be said enough: NIB Sales are not "THE HOBBY". Pinball can and will exist without new games, if that's what it comes down to.

I made a statement about pinball and you made it about dick size.

-9
#87 6 years ago

Rarehero, You have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing that destroys a company is not enough sales.

#91 6 years ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

10. You need to support Stern more.

Well done mate that is awesome! You are in the same position as us. Both new and used pins are very rare and very expensive so we appreciate each and every one.

Happy Flipping!

#94 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

-I've saved countless games from destruction, repaired & restored them, and put them back out into the world as fully functional games.
-I've helped countless people with issues and helped them fix their games.
-I've helped countless people understand the rules of lots of games.
-I've sent TONS of new customers to my fav distributor, giving him lots of new business.
-I've worked with Stern in an official capacity.
-I've worked with Stern unofficially, helping them bug test and giving advice on code...my help has ended up in the games.
-I've helped ColorDMD bug testing and giving advice and tons of games.
-I've helped friends open a local barcade.
...so, am I really "destroying this hobby"? How about we dial it down with this "destroying the hobby" nonsense....since you clearly don't even understand a thing about what this "hobby" actually is.
WTF have YOU done for "the hobby"!??!?!

Dude, that is sensational stuff! We do the same for as many people as we can. This is what must be done to keep the hobby alive. Why bag Stern product so much? Lets just agree to dis agree. I am good with that.

#97 6 years ago
Quoted from J85M:

Lets be honest we are all on this site because we share an interest/love of all things pinball, to say anyone on this site wants to destroy this hobby is foolish. Also pinball manufacturers providing NIB sales are not the foundation of this hobby, we are, NIB sales are just a choice for us within the hobby to purchase, if all pinball companies closed their doors tomorrow, we would all still be here trading or buying and selling games between us keeping the hobby alive.

I agree with you, problem is that in Australia and NZ there are no where near enough second hand machines to go round so they are worth a fortune. NIB machines are sold out months before the containers arrive. People have put deposits down for AFMr in March and no delivery date yet. We need as many NIB or second hand machines to come in to this country as possible to help reduce price pressure. So yes, we will defend every manufacturer. The more the better. Second hand machines (newer titles and old classics)that are listed on our local forum are usually sold in less than 12 hours.

#98 6 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

I hope you got an SWLE before they're all gone for the 10000 AUD retail. Stern needs you man. Cue Teekee's quote.

We did. And it cost $13K AUD after we fitted a shaker motor and mirror blades. My wife loves it already so it is worth every cent.

11
#105 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I own 7 Stern games. Games I consider KEEPERS cuz they're THAT good. I've owned lots of others that I still like, even though I've let them go. I was defending Stern and their games since '06 or so. Most pinball hobbyists and collectors HATED Stern and shunned them...to them, only Bally Williams were worth playing/owning. Stern has made some great games...but I have the perspective of a decade in the hobby to see where Stern was back then and where they are now. They were making full featured games with GOOD and either complete or relatively complete code for less than $4k. Updates came quick when there were bugs. Prices rose, but I understood and respected their Pro/Prem/LE business plan. I was OK with buying an LE like Metallica...it was $800 more than the Premium, and that seemed reasonable for the value you got with that version. Prices kept going up after that, but the games were getting more stripped down in quality.
Here's why I bag on Stern so much now...for me, 2016 was the breaking point. I was super excited for Ghostbusters, and put in an order on the Premium, and then we had "insert gate". My game was delayed because of the insert issue, and in the meantime - I actually went out and played the Pro...and just absolutely hated it. Couldn't believe how terrible it was designed and how awful the code was. I stuck with my order since I loved the theme so much and was told the ghosting issue would be solved by the time the Premiums were ready. I played 2 brand new Premiums that both had ghosting within days of being opened...so, not only was the ghosting fix a lie, I still hated the game. I finally cancelled my order...cuz why would I buy a game I not only hate, but basically falls apart when you open it? So - there was that - THEN - the absolute ARROGANCE and GREED of the Batman '66 situation. $15,000 for a STERN!?!?!?!? Right after GB showed they cheaped out on quality playfields!??!?!?! Then it comes out with pre-prototype code and is STILL unfinished almost a year later.
Then we had splitting cabinets, node board issues, reset issues, bare-bones Star Wars, more goofy code....
This is why I'm not into Stern right now. Prices up, quality and fun factor down. Simple. If they ever get their shit back together, I'd consider being a customer again...right now? No F'ing way. ...and, once again - me not buying product I don't like doesn't mean I'm "destroying the hobby". I'm having much more fun with $60 Nintendo Switch games, and that's given me even more perspective about how insane it is to spend $8000 on a GAME.

Please accept my public apology. We are both extremely passionate about our much loved hobby. I think that you are more passionate than I am. Our situation is different to yours. This hobby is a sickness but we all love it and that is why we are on here. Yes we are defensive of Stern, but we are also defensive of every manufacturer. We need as many of them to survive as possible. There are no where near enough machines to go around in Aus and NZ at the moment.

#108 6 years ago
Quoted from J85M:

I totally get where your coming from and what your trying to say, the part I disagree with is you cannot blindly defend any manufacturer if their practices are becoming questionable and having a negative in pact on pinball sales, it is insane and will only increase your lack of supply and pricing woes.
Look at it this way, if Stern continue to rise prices and reduce features leaving buyers on the fence or backing out all together (look at SW as a recent example of this) how many NIB games do you think your fellow pinheads will buy? Compared to say if Stern pack their games with features and get a grip of their quality control offering every pinhead better value for money and a product that is hard to resist? The later reaps better rewards for Stern with more sales, which would in turn bring more games to you in Australia.

We complain, do not worry about that, just not on a public forum. The beauty of what is happening right now is that there are a few manufacturers popping up and filling in needs of the market. If you want a machine packed with features, maybe look at JJP or a different manufacturer to Stern. My wife absolutely loves her GB and now her SW. In her eyes Stern have produced fantastic machines that she loves. If I was manufacturing SW I would have produced 4 different versions of the LE. All with mirror back glass, mirror blades, shaker motor, and different cabinet art. I would also produce a r2d2 topper that projected stuff on the wall. The possibilities are endless so why build yourself expectations that may never be met? I am not the manufacturer so what we see determines if we buy or not. If we do not like it, we do not buy it. Nice and simple. Our hobby is meant to be fun.

Sales in Australia. We only have 2 distributers. Almost every Stern LE sells out a few days after a machine is announced. You usually have to wait 3 months or longer to get any NIB Stern. Longer for CGC and JJP. What message do you think that is sending back to Stern and all the other manufacturers? The numbers are doing all the talking.

#110 6 years ago
Quoted from J85M:

That's the thing after the lean years, Stern was selling machines packed with features, hey they can still do that to this day GB is packed, TWD is pretty packed especially the premiums, SW was an error in judgement I think on Sterns part thinking the licence would sell any old layout and features list, I don't think it worked out as planned. My point being is everyone here wants Stern to get back to those feature packed days and grab a hold of those quality issues so more Sterns can be brought with confidence.

A couple of years ago Stern where producing LEs with mirrored backglasses or 3D translites, shakers, additional and substantial playfield features, extra blind led side rails, stainless steel speaker panels, in rare cases additional code. Again going back to my point above, we all want to see this level of feature rich service to (us) their customers, better value for money make its harder for us to resist which ultimately lets Stern flourish more which in turn creates more supply for you in Australia and us here in the UK, we have to stick together on these little islands of ours

We have been in the hobby for a long time, same as you. I am still new to the forums so I am still learning how to communicate what I mean on the forum. I do very much agree, we need to stick together. We have GB and TWD (my favourite machine of all time) and love them both. I honestly think that SW is meant to be the way it is (much like Tron) simple layout, simple shots very typical Steve Ritchie. We have about 100 games on ours and are loving it. Machine is very true to the theme and it makes me wonder if licencing constraints had a lot to do with how this machine turned out.

Happy Flipping!

#124 6 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

Here is the problem, and I'll admit it. If Stern does a TRON VE, or a good GotG I will likely get a NIB.
Sorry in advance.
The issue is that enough other pinsiders will do the same. Are we really calling for a NIB Stern boycott?

Tron copped heaps of shit when it first came out. Comments like "where is the rest of it". We used to site 50 or more machines from a few operators. I remember when AFM came out the operators were saying "I am not sure this game will be any good. There is nothing on it and it is only about Green Martians." We had TAF, MM, AFM and MB all in a row. TAF would net as much as the rest put together consistently and it was much older than the rest. Times change and people have short memories.

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