(Topic ID: 198394)

Star Wars LE is likely my last new Stern Machine


By glasairpilot

2 years ago



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  • 224 posts
  • 89 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by Zitt
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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There are 224 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 5.
#201 2 years ago
Quoted from spinal:

Whenever the art sucks, we always hear from Stern that it was the licensing restrictions and I for one just don't buy it. Sounds like a convenient excuse.
Have you ever noticed that movie posters often don't suck? Well, they probably are under the same licensing restrictions. Also, license holders want the art to look as good as possible as well - it's not like they would have any interest in having their art look bad. I just don't buy it.
Look I'm not saying it's easy, I'm just saying they are not investing enough effort and cash into it as they should (my main example was AC/DC rerelease). They need to aim higher - this is 2017.

This is pretty f ing comical.

Actually pathetic.

#202 2 years ago

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#203 2 years ago

ACDC art was fine and better in person
SW art is fine and better in person
When pitchforks cool off, the people will say
"Damn this game is fun to play..."

#204 2 years ago

Ask Aurich what a treat it was to work with the license holder on the art for Aliens.

#205 2 years ago

I'm not disagreeing with you that Stern had a hard time dealing with Disney and that minute details needed to be changed. Just step back and think about why this might have been - I think perhaps because the standard was too low for then overall so they tried to nit pick here and there to help them get it to some minimum level that barely passed so they could just get on with it.

Anyway my main point is that Stern needs to take responsibility for their art and stop blaming it on license holders. There are artists who can hit it out of the park and in those cases, trust me, license holders become much easier to work with.

Think about this: if every collector can look at the art and see that it's just not great, why would you think Stern had an easy time with Disney?

If SW is too is still too touchy a subject, let's get back to my original post example which was AC/DC.

#206 2 years ago
Quoted from spinal:

Anyway my main point is that Stern needs to take responsibility for their art and stop blaming it on license holders. There are artists who can hit it out of the park and in those cases, trust me, license holders become much easier to work with.

Please understand the reality.

What do you see with GB? How about AS? How about BM?

They have the greatest pinball artists on the planet. Period.

WTF

#207 2 years ago
Quoted from Apollyon:

Licensing restrictions. I spoke directly to Steve Ritchie about this regarding Star Wars. Simple as that.

And you believe that?

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#208 2 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

And you believe that?

What's your point Kvan? That art is dark and sucks imo. Not that the pin is great but its 10x better than that shit.

#209 2 years ago

Lol.....what? Come on Ice, my point is that if Stern takes a shit and puts in the box you will probably pre-order it.

#210 2 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Lol.....what? Come on Ice, my point is that if Stern takes a shit and puts in the box you will probably pre-order it.

Hahaha, no that's Tommy Boy! As long as you mark it "guaranteed", so i get a guaranteed piece of shit.

Factoid, i canceled that shit art that is SWLE and bought AFMLE instead. Yep.

I don't like boxes of shit. My new puppy dog shits everywhere but i love that little guy.

Plus, there is nothing like a good daily shit. Wait wtf is going on here!

#211 2 years ago

You got too much money for your own good Doug.

#212 2 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

You got too much money for your own good Doug.

Not really, I don't have enough common sense when it comes to pinball for my own good. A basic dummy.

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#213 2 years ago
Quoted from Apollyon:

Licensing restrictions. I spoke directly to Steve Ritchie about this regarding Star Wars. Simple as that.

Licensing restrictions don't lead to bad art. Licensing restrictions may limit them to certain assets, but a good artist can then arrange those assets into something nice. Stern often has problems using assets in a good way. Look at the first version of The Hobbit playfield vs. the revised version. Two different artists take on the same licensed assets. It's night and day. When Stern Photoshops assets, they're generally pretty bad at it...and they don't stop production to revise like Jack did - factory's gotta keep churning product.

Anyway, "it's the licensor's fault" is only half the story. The other half is the artist assigned to the project and what they bring to the table. There's a reason most of Steve's games don't fare well in the art department - he doesn't have an eye for art direction & the artists he works with don't have any incentive to push themselves.

#214 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Licensing restrictions don't lead to bad art. Licensing restrictions may limit them to certain assets, but a good artist can then arrange those assets into something nice. Stern often has problems using assets in a good way. Look at the first version of The Hobbit playfield vs. the revised version. Two different artists take on the same licensed assets. It's night and day. When Stern Photoshops assets, they're generally pretty bad at it...and they don't stop production to revise like Jack did - factory's gotta keep churning product.
Anyway, "it's the licensor's fault" is only half the story. The other half is the artist assigned to the project and what they bring to the table. There's a reason most of Steve's games don't fare well in the art department - he doesn't have an eye for art direction & the artists he works with don't have any incentive to push themselves.

I agree with that. My comments were more in response to the suggestion that the art on some Stern games isn't great because of greed or laziness.

Art is subjective too. What appeals to some doesn't to others. And not all art styles work with all themes. Cartoony / highly stylized art works on Metallica and Aerosmith. But it wouldn't be the same on other themes.

Personally I like the art on Star Wars. I think it looks great. But what the hell do I know.

#215 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I own 7 Stern games. Games I consider KEEPERS cuz they're THAT good. I've owned lots of others that I still like, even though I've let them go. I was defending Stern and their games since '06 or so. Most pinball hobbyists and collectors HATED Stern and shunned them...to them, only Bally Williams were worth playing/owning. Stern has made some great games...but I have the perspective of a decade in the hobby to see where Stern was back then and where they are now. They were making full featured games with GOOD and either complete or relatively complete code for less than $4k. Updates came quick when there were bugs. Prices rose, but I understood and respected their Pro/Prem/LE business plan. I was OK with buying an LE like Metallica...it was $800 more than the Premium, and that seemed reasonable for the value you got with that version. Prices kept going up after that, but the games were getting more stripped down in quality.
Here's why I bag on Stern so much now...for me, 2016 was the breaking point. I was super excited for Ghostbusters, and put in an order on the Premium, and then we had "insert gate". My game was delayed because of the insert issue, and in the meantime - I actually went out and played the Pro...and just absolutely hated it. Couldn't believe how terrible it was designed and how awful the code was. I stuck with my order since I loved the theme so much and was told the ghosting issue would be solved by the time the Premiums were ready. I played 2 brand new Premiums that both had ghosting within days of being opened...so, not only was the ghosting fix a lie, I still hated the game. I finally cancelled my order...cuz why would I buy a game I not only hate, but basically falls apart when you open it? So - there was that - THEN - the absolute ARROGANCE and GREED of the Batman '66 situation. $15,000 for a STERN!?!?!?!? Right after GB showed they cheaped out on quality playfields!??!?!?! Then it comes out with pre-prototype code and is STILL unfinished almost a year later.
Then we had splitting cabinets, node board issues, reset issues, bare-bones Star Wars, more goofy code....
This is why I'm not into Stern right now. Prices up, quality and fun factor down. Simple. If they ever get their shit back together, I'd consider being a customer again...right now? No F'ing way. ...and, once again - me not buying product I don't like doesn't mean I'm "destroying the hobby". I'm having much more fun with $60 Nintendo Switch games, and that's given me even more perspective about how insane it is to spend $8000 on a GAME.

Interesting post. I tend to share your views except that I never was a NIB stern customer and I do not care about the LE concept. So I feel less passion... but even to me, the BM66 affair seemed like a giant slap in the face of Stern consumers.

I tend to like Stern games though. I sincerely thank Gary Stern for having kept the Hobby alive during the darkest hours. I would not mind adding TSPP, WoF, TWD, ACDC, Mustang, Kiss or Met to my lineup.

Until recently I was a buyer on the secondary market - I don't mind waiting 2yr+ to get a game. Code would be finished and I would have had enough games on the model to know whether it's a keeper or not.

Except a SW Pro is priced around 6500 euros here (sales tax included). Meaning we should see the first HUO games on the secondary market in the 5500 - 6000 euros range. In my eyes, this is still way too much for what you get. So I am now also out of the secondary market... and I am probably not the only one. Meaning it won't be easy to resell a SW pro after a year without taking a very significant loss - 1000 euros or more.

Then, the only motivation to pay 5500 euros for a second hand recent Stern Pro is if NIB prices keep climbing. It (kind of) makes sense to pay 5500 for an HUO machine if NIB Stern pro are priced 7000+ euros in 2018-2019. Except the tide has changed, and Stern probably/hopefully realizes the market has reached a breaking point. Stern cannot raise its prices anymore... can it!?

Not saying I am not a NIB buyer - I afforded a few NIB game in the past.
Did that to support people in whom I believed (Scott for WOOLY, Antonio for Quetzal Nemo). Might buy either TNA or Houdini in 2018. But definitively not a NIB Stern.

Meanwhile, I bought a Zaccaria Blackbelt for $400. Had to ad $100 to make it functional, and I now have a full featured game with a balanced and intuitive ruleset, scoring I can parametrize by choosing between different awards for 3 different Specials...

#216 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Licensing restrictions don't lead to bad art. Licensing restrictions may limit them to certain assets, but a good artist can then arrange those assets into something nice. Stern often has problems using assets in a good way. Look at the first version of The Hobbit playfield vs. the revised version. Two different artists take on the same licensed assets. It's night and day. When Stern Photoshops assets, they're generally pretty bad at it...and they don't stop production to revise like Jack did - factory's gotta keep churning product.
Anyway, "it's the licensor's fault" is only half the story. The other half is the artist assigned to the project and what they bring to the table. There's a reason most of Steve's games don't fare well in the art department - he doesn't have an eye for art direction & the artists he works with don't have any incentive to push themselves.

Yes, great points.

#217 2 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

It's because the game is so friggin' hard. And if the game you played was set up wrong there were a lot of cheap drains, I'd bet. (And even if it was set up right...there's some tweaking to be done!). I'm not surprised they weren't interested for long.

This wasn't the case. My son actually had a better game and longer ball times than I did.

#218 2 years ago
Quoted from Fifty:

This wasn't the case. My son actually had a better game and longer ball times than I did.

Oh...well...then he just has bad taste.

#219 2 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Oh...well...then he just has bad taste.

You know what they say "teachers are always right" but in this case "boob's got a teacher's pet" named sw. Lol

#220 2 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

You know what they say "teachers are always right" but in this case "boob's got a teacher's pet" named sw. Lol

Most of the teachers I know are frequently wrong, actually.

1 year later
#221 6 months ago
Quoted from jgentry:

You just listed things that you think an LE should be required to have and yet you bought either LE's or premiums of sterns last 2 releases? Why did you buy them if you are so pissed at stern? Your logic for pricing on the secondary market is also very off. JJP games have lost more value in most cases than stern games. A year from now you will be able to buy a DILE for $7500 and Hobbits for $5500 HUO.

Still waiting on those $5500 Hobbits!

Came across this thread while deciding if NiB BKLE is worth it. Interesting read..

#222 6 months ago
Quoted from SheriffBarclay:

Still waiting on those $5500 Hobbits!
Came across this thread while deciding if NiB BKLE is worth it. Interesting read..

Very interesting read!

I make no comment on SW Pro, but the hyper loop on the Premium/LE is simply one of the best 'toys' in pinball.
Everyone I know who is good enough to put three silver balls in the hyper loop (which I have done only a handful of times, since it's so difficult, but very rewarding, to pull off), and experience everything that goes on in the machine as those balls are whipping around (which in my experience is the greatest adrenaline rush in pinball), rates this game very high and is never leaving their games room.

#223 6 months ago

Iron maiden was my first, and likely last NIB.

Theres nothing like a getting a warped playfield that you can't level which Stern won't replace for convincing you that NIB games are not worth it.

#224 6 months ago
Quoted from Maken:

Theres nothing like a getting a warped playfield that you can't level which Stern won't replace

Ah. There's the Stern we've all come to love!
:sigh:

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There are 224 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 5.

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