(Topic ID: 198394)

Star Wars LE is likely my last new Stern Machine

By glasairpilot

6 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 224 posts
  • 89 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Zitt
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

2013-10-09-220958 (resized).jpg
sw1 (resized).png
ss-pinball-bof_02 (resized).jpg
SWP_Episode_5_table_screenshot003 (resized).jpg
IMG_0129 (resized).JPG
WTF_DUDE (resized).png
82-2 (resized).jpg
MMMMK (resized).jpg
Amen (resized).jpg
IMG_0403 (resized).JPG
matthew mcconaughey car advert (resized).jpg
31poW1lKtjL (resized).jpg

There are 224 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 5.
#101 6 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

I agree with you, problem is that in Australia and NZ there are no where near enough second hand machines to go round so they are worth a fortune. NIB machines are sold out months before the containers arrive. People have put deposits down for AFMr in March and no delivery date yet. We need as many NIB or second hand machines to come in to this country as possible to help reduce price pressure. So yes, we will defend every manufacturer. The more the better. Second hand machines (newer titles and old classics)that are listed on our local forum are usually sold in less than 12 hours.

I totally get where your coming from and what your trying to say, the part I disagree with is you cannot blindly defend any manufacturer if their practices are becoming questionable and having a negative in pact on pinball sales, it is insane and will only increase your lack of supply and pricing woes.

Look at it this way, if Stern continue to rise prices and reduce features leaving buyers on the fence or backing out all together (look at SW as a recent example of this) how many NIB games do you think your fellow pinheads will buy? Compared to say if Stern pack their games with features and get a grip of their quality control offering every pinhead better value for money and a product that is hard to resist? The later reaps better rewards for Stern with more sales, which would in turn bring more games to you in Australia.

#102 6 years ago

Not sure but it seems like we have been talking about the same old sh** for way too long now. All models of SW is available for purchase. If you like the game I'm sure you own it by now. If you don't like the game that is fine too.....

Shouldn't we be fighting over something else by now?

#103 6 years ago

As with cars, if losing money when you resell is a big sticking point, then you can't be buying brand new things. You'll lose money for sure, unless lightning strikes and it's a limited edition of a beloved game...then you might be able to make a little when you sell. (Assuming that it doesn't get re-released, as is starting to happen frequently).

I'd look at JJP games for the best quality. You get a shaker, invisiglass, complete code, and lots of toys. DI isn't for everyone, but they have three pretty wildly different themes now across their catalog.

32
#104 6 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Dude, that is sensational stuff! We do the same for as many people as we can. This is what must be done to keep the hobby alive. Why bag Stern product so much? Lets just agree to dis agree. I am good with that.

I own 7 Stern games. Games I consider KEEPERS cuz they're THAT good. I've owned lots of others that I still like, even though I've let them go. I was defending Stern and their games since '06 or so. Most pinball hobbyists and collectors HATED Stern and shunned them...to them, only Bally Williams were worth playing/owning. Stern has made some great games...but I have the perspective of a decade in the hobby to see where Stern was back then and where they are now. They were making full featured games with GOOD and either complete or relatively complete code for less than $4k. Updates came quick when there were bugs. Prices rose, but I understood and respected their Pro/Prem/LE business plan. I was OK with buying an LE like Metallica...it was $800 more than the Premium, and that seemed reasonable for the value you got with that version. Prices kept going up after that, but the games were getting more stripped down in quality.

Here's why I bag on Stern so much now...for me, 2016 was the breaking point. I was super excited for Ghostbusters, and put in an order on the Premium, and then we had "insert gate". My game was delayed because of the insert issue, and in the meantime - I actually went out and played the Pro...and just absolutely hated it. Couldn't believe how terrible it was designed and how awful the code was. I stuck with my order since I loved the theme so much and was told the ghosting issue would be solved by the time the Premiums were ready. I played 2 brand new Premiums that both had ghosting within days of being opened...so, not only was the ghosting fix a lie, I still hated the game. I finally cancelled my order...cuz why would I buy a game I not only hate, but basically falls apart when you open it? So - there was that - THEN - the absolute ARROGANCE and GREED of the Batman '66 situation. $15,000 for a STERN!?!?!?!? Right after GB showed they cheaped out on quality playfields!??!?!?! Then it comes out with pre-prototype code and is STILL unfinished almost a year later.

Then we had splitting cabinets, node board issues, reset issues, bare-bones Star Wars, more goofy code....

This is why I'm not into Stern right now. Prices up, quality and fun factor down. Simple. If they ever get their shit back together, I'd consider being a customer again...right now? No F'ing way. ...and, once again - me not buying product I don't like doesn't mean I'm "destroying the hobby". I'm having much more fun with $60 Nintendo Switch games, and that's given me even more perspective about how insane it is to spend $8000 on a GAME.

11
#105 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I own 7 Stern games. Games I consider KEEPERS cuz they're THAT good. I've owned lots of others that I still like, even though I've let them go. I was defending Stern and their games since '06 or so. Most pinball hobbyists and collectors HATED Stern and shunned them...to them, only Bally Williams were worth playing/owning. Stern has made some great games...but I have the perspective of a decade in the hobby to see where Stern was back then and where they are now. They were making full featured games with GOOD and either complete or relatively complete code for less than $4k. Updates came quick when there were bugs. Prices rose, but I understood and respected their Pro/Prem/LE business plan. I was OK with buying an LE like Metallica...it was $800 more than the Premium, and that seemed reasonable for the value you got with that version. Prices kept going up after that, but the games were getting more stripped down in quality.
Here's why I bag on Stern so much now...for me, 2016 was the breaking point. I was super excited for Ghostbusters, and put in an order on the Premium, and then we had "insert gate". My game was delayed because of the insert issue, and in the meantime - I actually went out and played the Pro...and just absolutely hated it. Couldn't believe how terrible it was designed and how awful the code was. I stuck with my order since I loved the theme so much and was told the ghosting issue would be solved by the time the Premiums were ready. I played 2 brand new Premiums that both had ghosting within days of being opened...so, not only was the ghosting fix a lie, I still hated the game. I finally cancelled my order...cuz why would I buy a game I not only hate, but basically falls apart when you open it? So - there was that - THEN - the absolute ARROGANCE and GREED of the Batman '66 situation. $15,000 for a STERN!?!?!?!? Right after GB showed they cheaped out on quality playfields!??!?!?! Then it comes out with pre-prototype code and is STILL unfinished almost a year later.
Then we had splitting cabinets, node board issues, reset issues, bare-bones Star Wars, more goofy code....
This is why I'm not into Stern right now. Prices up, quality and fun factor down. Simple. If they ever get their shit back together, I'd consider being a customer again...right now? No F'ing way. ...and, once again - me not buying product I don't like doesn't mean I'm "destroying the hobby". I'm having much more fun with $60 Nintendo Switch games, and that's given me even more perspective about how insane it is to spend $8000 on a GAME.

Please accept my public apology. We are both extremely passionate about our much loved hobby. I think that you are more passionate than I am. Our situation is different to yours. This hobby is a sickness but we all love it and that is why we are on here. Yes we are defensive of Stern, but we are also defensive of every manufacturer. We need as many of them to survive as possible. There are no where near enough machines to go around in Aus and NZ at the moment.

#106 6 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Please accept my public apology. We are both extremely passionate about our much loved hobby. I think that you are more passionate than I am. Our situation is different to yours. This hobby is a sickness but we all love it and that is why we are on here. Yes we are defensive of Stern, but we are also defensive of every manufacturer. We need as many of them to survive as possible. There are no where near enough machines to go around in Aus and NZ at the moment.

Apology accepted. Passion isn't a contest....we all love pinball, and we all do it in different ways.

#107 6 years ago

So to summarize, forgo NIB LE games and buy "Just Dance 2017" on the Nintendo switch.
Got it.

#108 6 years ago
Quoted from J85M:

I totally get where your coming from and what your trying to say, the part I disagree with is you cannot blindly defend any manufacturer if their practices are becoming questionable and having a negative in pact on pinball sales, it is insane and will only increase your lack of supply and pricing woes.
Look at it this way, if Stern continue to rise prices and reduce features leaving buyers on the fence or backing out all together (look at SW as a recent example of this) how many NIB games do you think your fellow pinheads will buy? Compared to say if Stern pack their games with features and get a grip of their quality control offering every pinhead better value for money and a product that is hard to resist? The later reaps better rewards for Stern with more sales, which would in turn bring more games to you in Australia.

We complain, do not worry about that, just not on a public forum. The beauty of what is happening right now is that there are a few manufacturers popping up and filling in needs of the market. If you want a machine packed with features, maybe look at JJP or a different manufacturer to Stern. My wife absolutely loves her GB and now her SW. In her eyes Stern have produced fantastic machines that she loves. If I was manufacturing SW I would have produced 4 different versions of the LE. All with mirror back glass, mirror blades, shaker motor, and different cabinet art. I would also produce a r2d2 topper that projected stuff on the wall. The possibilities are endless so why build yourself expectations that may never be met? I am not the manufacturer so what we see determines if we buy or not. If we do not like it, we do not buy it. Nice and simple. Our hobby is meant to be fun.

Sales in Australia. We only have 2 distributers. Almost every Stern LE sells out a few days after a machine is announced. You usually have to wait 3 months or longer to get any NIB Stern. Longer for CGC and JJP. What message do you think that is sending back to Stern and all the other manufacturers? The numbers are doing all the talking.

#109 6 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

If you want a machine packed with features, maybe look at JJP or a different manufacturer to Stern.

That's the thing after the lean years, Stern was selling machines packed with features, hey they can still do that to this day GB is packed, TWD is pretty packed especially the premiums, SW was an error in judgement I think on Sterns part thinking the licence would sell any old layout and features list, I don't think it worked out as planned. My point being is everyone here wants Stern to get back to those feature packed days and grab a hold of those quality issues so more Sterns can be brought with confidence.

Quoted from pinballaddicted:

If I was manufacturing SW I would have produced 4 different versions of the LE. All with mirror back glass, mirror blades, shaker motor, and different cabinet art.

A couple of years ago Stern where producing LEs with mirrored backglasses or 3D translites, shakers, additional and substantial playfield features, extra blind led side rails, stainless steel speaker panels, in rare cases additional code. Again going back to my point above, we all want to see this level of feature rich service to (us) their customers, better value for money make its harder for us to resist which ultimately lets Stern flourish more which in turn creates more supply for you in Australia and us here in the UK, we have to stick together on these little islands of ours

#110 6 years ago
Quoted from J85M:

That's the thing after the lean years, Stern was selling machines packed with features, hey they can still do that to this day GB is packed, TWD is pretty packed especially the premiums, SW was an error in judgement I think on Sterns part thinking the licence would sell any old layout and features list, I don't think it worked out as planned. My point being is everyone here wants Stern to get back to those feature packed days and grab a hold of those quality issues so more Sterns can be brought with confidence.

A couple of years ago Stern where producing LEs with mirrored backglasses or 3D translites, shakers, additional and substantial playfield features, extra blind led side rails, stainless steel speaker panels, in rare cases additional code. Again going back to my point above, we all want to see this level of feature rich service to (us) their customers, better value for money make its harder for us to resist which ultimately lets Stern flourish more which in turn creates more supply for you in Australia and us here in the UK, we have to stick together on these little islands of ours

We have been in the hobby for a long time, same as you. I am still new to the forums so I am still learning how to communicate what I mean on the forum. I do very much agree, we need to stick together. We have GB and TWD (my favourite machine of all time) and love them both. I honestly think that SW is meant to be the way it is (much like Tron) simple layout, simple shots very typical Steve Ritchie. We have about 100 games on ours and are loving it. Machine is very true to the theme and it makes me wonder if licencing constraints had a lot to do with how this machine turned out.

Happy Flipping!

#111 6 years ago

Way to go fella's / Now enjoy your mint or not so mint sterns and other brand Pins and think how lucky we are to own them and be able to drink fresh water and eat Food and post BS that no one will care about a few months from now while on the hunt for the next pinball machine here on Pinside

#112 6 years ago

Stern realizes it's more profitable to make a crappy product than it is to make a good one. And in all honesty....why would they change when people keep throwing money at them? (Stern coffee table book kickstater anyone?)

Stop buying NIB from Stern for 2 years and see what happens.

#113 6 years ago

now if we 42,753 pinsiders can all agree on that
That would be AWESOME!!

10
#114 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I own 7 Stern games. Games I consider KEEPERS cuz they're THAT good. I've owned lots of others that I still like, even though I've let them go. I was defending Stern and their games since '06 or so. Most pinball hobbyists and collectors HATED Stern and shunned them...to them, only Bally Williams were worth playing/owning. Stern has made some great games...but I have the perspective of a decade in the hobby to see where Stern was back then and where they are now. They were making full featured games with GOOD and either complete or relatively complete code for less than $4k. Updates came quick when there were bugs. Prices rose, but I understood and respected their Pro/Prem/LE business plan. I was OK with buying an LE like Metallica...it was $800 more than the Premium, and that seemed reasonable for the value you got with that version. Prices kept going up after that, but the games were getting more stripped down in quality.
Here's why I bag on Stern so much now...for me, 2016 was the breaking point. I was super excited for Ghostbusters, and put in an order on the Premium, and then we had "insert gate". My game was delayed because of the insert issue, and in the meantime - I actually went out and played the Pro...and just absolutely hated it. Couldn't believe how terrible it was designed and how awful the code was. I stuck with my order since I loved the theme so much and was told the ghosting issue would be solved by the time the Premiums were ready. I played 2 brand new Premiums that both had ghosting within days of being opened...so, not only was the ghosting fix a lie, I still hated the game. I finally cancelled my order...cuz why would I buy a game I not only hate, but basically falls apart when you open it? So - there was that - THEN - the absolute ARROGANCE and GREED of the Batman '66 situation. $15,000 for a STERN!?!?!?!? Right after GB showed they cheaped out on quality playfields!??!?!?! Then it comes out with pre-prototype code and is STILL unfinished almost a year later.
Then we had splitting cabinets, node board issues, reset issues, bare-bones Star Wars, more goofy code....
This is why I'm not into Stern right now. Prices up, quality and fun factor down. Simple. If they ever get their shit back together, I'd consider being a customer again...right now? No F'ing way. ...and, once again - me not buying product I don't like doesn't mean I'm "destroying the hobby". I'm having much more fun with $60 Nintendo Switch games, and that's given me even more perspective about how insane it is to spend $8000 on a GAME.

Good post and pretty sure it resumes the opinion of a lot of people here. Pretty much how I feel about it. Stern is here on pinside and they have a few undercover agents who try to calm down a few threads left and right but the word is out. Talk is cheap action speaks louder. So read and make your move if you want to sell more NIB pins to finance that upgrade you did to that factory last year.

#115 6 years ago

One thing I would like to point out is that Stern owes me nothing. They had products and I traded money for them. The thing I want to get away from is "hating" Stern or each other over what should be just good discussion about what we are all looking for. Life is too short to shoot arrows at each other, especially over our 1st world problems. Whatever happens is what happens. With that said, our purchasing decisions are what dictates policy, not what we gripe about only to do the same thing over again. I will not shop at Target, Starbucks, watch ESPN/NFL, or ANY of the main networks because I feel all are anti-American and are destroying the USA. As much as I may like some of what they have to offer I had to draw a line and after I made the decision to not spend my time and money on them I don't miss them at all. There are always options out there and that is what makes open markets great. Sometimes the best deal is the one you never make.

#116 6 years ago
Quoted from ImNotNorm:

Stop buying NIB from Stern for 2 years and see what happens.

Here is the problem, and I'll admit it. If Stern does a TRON VE, or a good GotG I will likely get a NIB.

Sorry in advance.

The issue is that enough other pinsiders will do the same. Are we really calling for a NIB Stern boycott?

#117 6 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

Here is the problem, and I'll admit it. If Stern does a TRON VE, or a good GotG I will likely get a NIB.
Sorry in advance.
The issue is that enough other pinsiders will do the same. Are we really calling for a NIB Stern boycott?

If they get their shit together and don't price the thing sky high, is full featured, as great code I'd do like I have been doing, buy the game 10 months after production starts. I don't want Stern to fail....I've only owned Sterns for the past 5 years or so. But I won't blindly give them money....they'll have to earn it.

#118 6 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

Here is the problem, and I'll admit it. If Stern does a TRON VE, or a good GotG I will likely get a NIB.
Sorry in advance.
The issue is that enough other pinsiders will do the same. Are we really calling for a NIB Stern boycott?

I'm not calling for a boycott. Sorry if it sounded that way....

I'm just saying that money talks....that's all.

#119 6 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

By the game 10 months after production starts.

To be fair, the first few hundred - or more - of JJPs pins off the line have had issues corrected in later builds. And JJP is known (for the most part) to have a quality build. Good advise either way - don't be the one with the first built units.

#120 6 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Would be worse if no one gave a sh*t what Stern did.

My pop always use to tell his players when he coached basketball, "you better start worrying when i don't yell at you and ride your ass, that means i don't give a shit anymore and you are gone or on the end of the bench".

Stern needs to accept the criticism, deal with it and not take us consumers for granted.

The day the "whiner" threads stop is the day that Stern is in HUGE trouble.

#121 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I own 7 Stern games. Games I consider KEEPERS cuz they're THAT good. I've owned lots of others that I still like, even though I've let them go. I was defending Stern and their games since '06 or so. Most pinball hobbyists and collectors HATED Stern and shunned them...to them, only Bally Williams were worth playing/owning. Stern has made some great games...but I have the perspective of a decade in the hobby to see where Stern was back then and where they are now. They were making full featured games with GOOD and either complete or relatively complete code for less than $4k. Updates came quick when there were bugs. Prices rose, but I understood and respected their Pro/Prem/LE business plan. I was OK with buying an LE like Metallica...it was $800 more than the Premium, and that seemed reasonable for the value you got with that version. Prices kept going up after that, but the games were getting more stripped down in quality.
Here's why I bag on Stern so much now...for me, 2016 was the breaking point. I was super excited for Ghostbusters, and put in an order on the Premium, and then we had "insert gate". My game was delayed because of the insert issue, and in the meantime - I actually went out and played the Pro...and just absolutely hated it. Couldn't believe how terrible it was designed and how awful the code was. I stuck with my order since I loved the theme so much and was told the ghosting issue would be solved by the time the Premiums were ready. I played 2 brand new Premiums that both had ghosting within days of being opened...so, not only was the ghosting fix a lie, I still hated the game. I finally cancelled my order...cuz why would I buy a game I not only hate, but basically falls apart when you open it? So - there was that - THEN - the absolute ARROGANCE and GREED of the Batman '66 situation. $15,000 for a STERN!?!?!?!? Right after GB showed they cheaped out on quality playfields!??!?!?! Then it comes out with pre-prototype code and is STILL unfinished almost a year later.
Then we had splitting cabinets, node board issues, reset issues, bare-bones Star Wars, more goofy code....
This is why I'm not into Stern right now. Prices up, quality and fun factor down. Simple. If they ever get their shit back together, I'd consider being a customer again...right now? No F'ing way.

Amen (resized).jpgAmen (resized).jpg

#122 6 years ago

I have a question for you all: do you think that Stern will ultimately make more money by continuing down this route (lower quality, stripped features, higher prices) or make less as they end up pissing off a large part of their customer base? (Serious question)

#123 6 years ago
Quoted from spinal:

I have a question for you all: do you think that Stern will ultimately make more money by continuing down this route (lower quality, stripped features, higher prices) or make less as they end up pissing off a large part of their customer base? (Serious question)

The proof is in the pudding. Usually at least one of my collector friends gets the new game. This time around no one did and I even talked to some operators in my neck of the woods and no one got SW. Even the biggest pinball joint in the city didn't buy one because they are still pissed at Stern for all the problems they got on GB and a few other games they bought at premium prices. Unless someone knows of one in Ottawa, Canada's Nation Capital contains NO STAR WARS on route or in house that I know of. In the last 7 years that as never happened.

The Ottawa pinball show was held on the first weekend of September. The game (only one on frre play) sometimes didn't even have a line up (Saturday afternoon) and I could play a few games straight. It was on sale for like $8300 LOL and every one of the collectors I talked to weren't that impressed.

#124 6 years ago
Quoted from Goronic:

Here is the problem, and I'll admit it. If Stern does a TRON VE, or a good GotG I will likely get a NIB.
Sorry in advance.
The issue is that enough other pinsiders will do the same. Are we really calling for a NIB Stern boycott?

Tron copped heaps of shit when it first came out. Comments like "where is the rest of it". We used to site 50 or more machines from a few operators. I remember when AFM came out the operators were saying "I am not sure this game will be any good. There is nothing on it and it is only about Green Martians." We had TAF, MM, AFM and MB all in a row. TAF would net as much as the rest put together consistently and it was much older than the rest. Times change and people have short memories.

#125 6 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

Tron copped heaps of shit when it first came out. Comments like "where is the rest of it". We used to site 50 or more machines from a few operators. I remember when AFM came out the operators were saying "I am not sure this game will be any good. There is nothing on it and it is only about Green Martians." We had TAF, MM, AFM and MB all in a row. TAF would net as much as the rest put together consistently and it was much older than the rest. Times change and people have short memories.

I think this time is warranted. What do you have on the PRO. A wiggling Tie Fighter and a snow globe ornament and a LCD panel that is only really used for information 80% of the time. While I agree that initial reactions of a new Stern games encounter a lot of criticism, Star Wars beats all of the other releases by a mile. GOT pro comes in close second with the GOT pro with no throne. I own TF LE and I still think it looks packed compared to star wars (megatron mech, optimus mech with lift ramp, bumble bee captive ball, mini playfield (not on PRO)).

Star wars reminds me a bit of Star Trek but you have the big ship as the main toy, but at least it's well integrated with the magnet under it and you have the warp ramp.

I could go on. SW just feels meh...

#126 6 years ago

Regarding some of the most ridiculous posts above, let me remind you what the definition of shill is:

Shill

an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others.

Sometimes a shill doesn't even know what a shill is - it's someone who has a PERSONAL VESTED INTEREST IN DEFENDING OR SUPPORTING A PRODUCT FOR THEIR OWN GAIN. Anything a shill says can be immediately ignored as they cannot and will not speak any truth to the topic at hand because they stand to lose something.

The lowest form of pond scum are those that blame the failure of a product on the most loyal supporters of this hobby instead of the actual manufacturer of the product.

If Stern was a restaurant and served us some terrible food, we should eat it or be accused of not supporting the restaurant industry? Do you even realize how ridiculous this sounds?

#127 6 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

I think this time is warranted. What do you have on the PRO. A wiggling Tie Fighter and a snow globe ornament and a LCD panel that is only really used for information 80% of the time.

What did you have on an AFM? A wiggling spaceship and four wiggling martians. You don't hear anybody bitching about that.

#128 6 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

What did you have on an AFM? A wiggling spaceship and four wiggling martians. You don't hear anybody bitching about that.

True. I can't argue that. But for some reason it's doesn't feel sparse like SW. The bank drops, you have a VUK to the left ramp the double sided scoop on the right. SW just puts me off in so many ways...including the fact you can't see the damn pop behind the screen.

I really wanted to like it a played a bunch at the show but I just can't get over the flaws (or what I deem to be flaws).

Oh and at least there where 4 wiggling martians on AFM

#129 6 years ago

Op- I mean this in a nice way but you could have done better on NIB pricing than $8500 GB and $8700 SW. You only had GB for sale for 7 days at $400 less than what others bought it for. Give it time. GB will sell. That is pretty damn good if you can get that much back after playing it a year. IMHO. Not sure if starting a post "no more NIB for you" will help your sale either.

So I heard Stern had the best sales over the last few months ever. Or in the modern era at least. Folks may not be happy paying more for less and may or may not be pulling back on PS, but apparently other folks are ok with it. I am not even sure Pinsiders even bought a major share of SWLE's? Only 134 owners so far on PS and that includes Premiums. I know not everyone puts their collections on PS and Distros still have some to sell, but as far as I know all 800 are out the door of Stern. I know some will think this means vendors are sitting on hundreds and hundreds of them but that is just not true. Anyone heard how many are left from the remaining vendors? My guy is sold out.

Anyway my point is Stern must have new buyers for these games that are not Pinsiders or not the same Pinsiders who won't buy the next NIB due to CQ, Code or BOM or make posts about it at least.

#130 6 years ago
Quoted from spinal:

I have a question for you all: do you think that Stern will ultimately make more money by continuing down this route (lower quality, stripped features, higher prices) or make less as they end up pissing off a large part of their customer base? (Serious question)

This is my question as well. GOT and SW have their fans and I understand, but for me, I just didn't enjoy them. I put a few hours on SW and had a GOT pro at my house for weeks, just neither clicked. It was disappointing for me personally, as I am a huge fan of both themes, and so is my family. I know GB has its issues, but I like it and think they made an honest effort. If SW or GOT had a similar feature set as GB, I would've ponied up for a SLE or whatever top of the line option they would have. In my house, both themes are liked enough I would have no problem justifying it. As it stands now though, I'm not interested in either. The LE's missing some of the old standard features is just icing on the cake.

I'm sure sometimes it comes across as bashing stern, and some people do bash them, no doubt. But for me personally, it's more about disappointment then it is bashing. I want to buy their products and I'm excited when I hear the new themes. Recently though, I get let down the last few pins just based off the initial reveal. I even thought I was being hypercritical, so I showed them to my non-pinball friends and family. Comments ranged from "meh", "why does it look empty", and "why doesn't it have a bunch of things like our Simpsons". If a lay person thinks it looks sparse, then it probably is sparse.

I also get everyone has different tastes, and not everyone is always going to be happy. However, just look at how well GB sold, issues and all, with a good combination of theme and a loaded playfield. Their sales may be good, and that's great for them, But honestly, sales could be huge. If people like myself who are ready and willing to buy a pin, had something that excited us, and felt like we were getting good value for our purchase. If you like what they are producing then I'm happy for you. For someone like myself though, I'm keeping my fingers crossed they produce something that gets me excited about giving them my hard earned money.

#131 6 years ago
Quoted from pinballaddicted:

There are no where near enough machines to go around in Aus and NZ at the moment.

Most new entrants to the market baulk at paying the NIB prices that we are presented with in Australia and the existing hardcore consumer base isn't enough to make up the shortfall in sales.

AMD struggled to find buyers for the SW allocation and as it stands as of a couple of days ago they still had LE units in stock. Those days of selling out of their allocation in 48-72 hours are over due mainly to price increases and the ever decreasing levels of bang for buck coupled with the overall degradation of quality of end product. That is why there is a shortage of new or near new machines in this country. The barriers for entry for both new entrants and long term collectors is becoming too high.

If anything, the only real growth area in pinball down under that I have seen firsthand is in new entrants looking to the used market from the importers who still charge reasonable pricing on refurbished stock.

There are still supplies of used machines in Europe to pick from but since most new buyers want a fully working machine and not a semi-working project there is only so much that can be done in a day to sate the demand.

The other reason there is a shortage of used machines in this country is that many of them are typically disappearing into homes whose owners simply pass them around within their designated clique never to be seen again by an outsider from that point onwards in its life.

From a personal standpoint since my objective is the expansion of pinball in this country for that reason I couldn't really see the point of selling any of my imported stock to existing pinball owners only to have the machines subsequently play the equivalent of musical chairs within the same limited group. That would defeat one of the reasons for importation in the first place and simply hasten the demise of pinball locally.

#132 6 years ago

As has been said by many others Stern make great $5k pins in their pro models, really no one else can touch them in this department. However this does not always translate to the premium or LE models.

I think what's really going to hurt Stern is when collectors start loosing significant money on the resale of premium and Le models. Even for people with means pinball as a hobby has been a relatively cheap investment based on the ability to recoup most if not all of your money when you come to resale, hell occasionally you might even make a profit. This scenario took almost all the risk out of buying a new Stern Le, even if you where not wealthy you could take the plunge knowing if the game did not click you could bail with little to no loss. To me this is the one point that has separated Stern from say JJP recently, with a JJP game you know you going to loose a significant percentage of the value as soon as you open the box, as Jack has never truly limited his runs. However for most buyers they don't care as they not buying the game to flip and have the means to absorb the loss. If Stern has a run of releases where Le and even premium buyers are loosing thousands when they resell, then it will impact the desire of their product. WWE lost money GOT Le buyers probably break even GB slight profit Batman Le (not super) break even maybe even slight profit if code eventuates, Aerosmith Le probably slight loss , Starwars Le probably loss. If Sterns next game can deliver a level of demand where LEs once again demand a premium in resale then all will be forgotten regardless of the feature matrix. If they have another couple of tiles in a row where the Le loose significant money on resale then they are in the shit with this market. All the above is true for the premium buyers as well. If guardians or iron maiden or what evers next knocks it out of the park everyone will be back on the Stern train, if the next couple of titles drop the ball.... then yes Sterns Le and to a lesser extant premium model is in real trouble. Still show me a better bang for the buck NIB pinball the the majority of new stern pros??

#133 6 years ago
Quoted from pinnyheadhead:

Op- I mean this in a nice way but you could have done better on NIB pricing than $8500 GB and $8700 SW. You only had GB for sale for 7 days at $400 less than what others bought it for. Give it time. GB will sell. That is pretty damn good if you can get that much back after playing it a year. IMHO. Not sure if starting a post "no more NIB for you" will help your sale either.
So I heard Stern had the best sales over the last few months ever. Or in the modern era at least. Folks may not be happy paying more for less and may or may not be pulling back on PS, but apparently other folks are ok with it. I am not even sure Pinsiders even bought a major share of SWLE's? Only 134 owners so far on PS and that includes Premiums. I know not everyone puts their collections on PS and Distros still have some to sell, but as far as I know all 800 are out the door of Stern. I know some will think this means vendors are sitting on hundreds and hundreds of them but that is just not true. Anyone heard how many are left from the remaining vendors? My guy is sold out.
Anyway my point is Stern must have new buyers for these games that are not Pinsiders or not the same Pinsiders who won't buy the next NIB due to CQ, Code or BOM or make posts about it at least.

My Apologies - you are correct - I paid $8,195 delivered. I bought it within 15 minutes of being announced and got he last one Game Room Guys had. My GBLE has more features than my SWLE and I paid $8,795 for it 1 year later.

As for it being "underpriced" I have one gentleman coming to look at it and have had a few calls of people wanting to trade. If it was "too cheap" it would be gone by now. If it does not sell I will store it. I don't need the money, but I do need the room for pins to play - not store, so I'm buying nothing new until it is gone. Mine has no ghosting or cabinet problems and is in perfect condition. I'm the cheapest in the nation as far as I know. If this post hurts my chance of selling it let it be so. I believe in being honest.

#134 6 years ago
Quoted from ryanwanger:

if losing money when you resell is a big sticking point

then I think you are toxic for the hobby, not you ryan just using ur statement.

13
#135 6 years ago
Quoted from pinnyheadhead:

Op- I mean this in a nice way but you could have done better on NIB pricing than $8500 GB and $8700 SW. You only had GB for sale for 7 days at $400 less than what others bought it for. Give it time. GB will sell. That is pretty damn good if you can get that much back after playing it a year. IMHO. Not sure if starting a post "no more NIB for you" will help your sale either.
So I heard Stern had the best sales over the last few months ever. Or in the modern era at least. Folks may not be happy paying more for less and may or may not be pulling back on PS, but apparently other folks are ok with it. I am not even sure Pinsiders even bought a major share of SWLE's? Only 134 owners so far on PS and that includes Premiums. I know not everyone puts their collections on PS and Distros still have some to sell, but as far as I know all 800 are out the door of Stern. I know some will think this means vendors are sitting on hundreds and hundreds of them but that is just not true. Anyone heard how many are left from the remaining vendors? My guy is sold out.
Anyway my point is Stern must have new buyers for these games that are not Pinsiders or not the same Pinsiders who won't buy the next NIB due to CQ, Code or BOM or make posts about it at least.

There are still some SWLE's available. They seem to be slowly drying up though. I've actually heard the exact opposite on sterns year. BM66 is not selling any premiums, KISS is not selling, GB is still selling but has dramatically slowed down, AS pro sold pretty well but not great and there are still LE's available, SW sold decent but not as well as expected for the huge license and just like all of the games previously listed premiums are not selling well at all. Maybe they were counting the ACDC distributor sales into that as I'm sure it is going to do very well. But otherwise, their new releases are struggling horribly. Add in QC issues and things do not look bright at all. Then you factor in that CGC pretty much gave them the middle finger and have taken 1500-2500 sales away from them, JJP is doing well with DI now that it's shipping, and Spooky to a much smaller extent just took up 250 or so more sales from stern with TNA. Maybe they sold a ton of ACDC's and that is why they are claiming that. Should be a huge red flag to them that a game from 5 years ago does better then their new releases though if that is in fact the case.

JJP is ramping up to do at least one title per year now. CGC has been a huge success and will be releasing their next remake very soon and has the potential to make 3500 or so games per year without ramping up or adding another line. Each Spooky release is getting larger. All of these things added in with cutting in features result in less sales. Prices are going way up to cover the drop in sales and the cost of sterns QC problems. If stern could make a good profit and still sell LE's for $5500 they would do just that and kill the competition. Everyone thinks price increases are because of greed and them screwing you. It's not, it's because they have a dwindling bottom line due to a larger building, QC issues, and lower sales.

#136 6 years ago

I hope Stern is hurting and makes even better games as a result, I also hope they are doing well and stay in business so at least one company makes a good 5K game, I win either way.

#137 6 years ago

Even though I like my SW, I understand the OP's sentiment. And though I don't agree 100% with Kaneda, his recent podcast on this brings up good points. Price, lack of accessories, botched reveals, code and qc issues have negatively impacted some recent buyer's overall NIB experience. The SW reveal was frankly exhausting, and ultimately salvaged by the D_F pre/LE stream, albeit not without it's own issues.

I'm not a Stern hater, but I can easily understand why people would be looking at alternatives. That being said, I really do think Stern pays attention and incorporates lessons learned, even if they don't communicate it.

#138 6 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

Everyone thinks price increases are because of greed and them screwing you. It's not, it's because they have a dwindling bottom line due to a larger building, QC issues, and lower sales.

Rephrased
"Hey we screwed up....so what do we do.. Let's increase our prices" = Screwing your customer. Poor management decisions should not be passed down to the customer (happens all the time) It's not the customer's fault if a company decides to cut costs and corners and then get's bit in the ass.

Also how do you know that all these title are dong poorly? You work for Stern? Just asking.

#139 6 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

Also how do you know that all these title are dong poorly? You work for Stern? Just asking.

Yep, would like to know how anyone has gotten their hands on Sterns financial statements?

-1
#140 6 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

Rephrased
"Hey we screwed up....so what do we do.. Let's increase our prices" = Screwing your customer. Poor management decisions should not be passed down to the customer (happens all the time) It's not the customer's fault if a company decides to cut costs and corners and then get's bit in the ass.
Also how do you know that all these title are dong poorly? You work for Stern? Just asking.

Not exactly how it works. They are dealing with numerous suppliers of parts and just like at every manufacturing factory there will be bad batches of parts, unforeseen issues, recalls, delays, etc. When these things happen that cost the company money they can't just continue to eat it. You can blame them all you want but the same thing happens with every type of manufactured product. It's also not just stern. People seem to have quickly forgotten a $6500 WOZ. JJP had part issues, cabinet supply issues, board issues, etc and it turned out that they had to increase the price 30% to make money on it. Do you really expect them to just eat all of that and bankrupt the company?

All I know what I've been told from a couple of different distros. Maybe some are doing better then others and maybe in other areas certain games are selling better. I still think AS is sterns best game since Metallica and am shocked it has not taken off and done better.

Quoted from Hazoff:

Yep, would like to know how anyone has gotten their hands on Sterns financial statements?

No one said anything about financial statements. It's basic business. If stern can make a good profit at a lower price and slowly price out their competition they certainly would. Price increases have been continuous since the move to the new building. Price increases happen almost solely due to a decrease in the bottom line.

#141 6 years ago
Quoted from spinal:

I have a question for you all: do you think that Stern will ultimately make more money by continuing down this route (lower quality, stripped features, higher prices) or make less as they end up pissing off a large part of their customer base? (Serious question)

Short term: Way more $$!
Long term: Losing customers, & their command of the market share, = less $$.
They are playing with fire. They have lost me as a customer & many others.
My Dialed In LE should be here in 2 weeks. That $ used to go to Stern, not anymore.

#142 6 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

I still think AS is sterns best game since Metallica and am shocked it has not taken off and done better.

Theme. Aerosmith just doesn't inspire the "fuck yeah, COOOL!!!" passion. That Met & ACDC do. And on top of that, it's not as good of a game as Met. I think it got a lot of credit for not being a total bungle like the last few games - it's competent...but it's still extremely uninspired and generic. Somehow it lacks personality and certain spark, even tho it has a great art package and cool main toy.

One of the local barcades just swapped it out for something else already. Even being their only Color LCD game - no one was playing it. That's a testament to the "turn off factor" of the theme.

-5
#143 6 years ago

" Spooky to a much smaller extent just took up 250 or so more sales from stern with TNA."

Man, I hope not. I have blocked everyone associated with Spooky Pinball. It seems they can't finish a thought without the "F" word being in it. Excessive profanity is a big turn off to me - especially in business. I asked them to please tone down the profanity as I wanted my kids to be involved on pinside and I think it was Brian told me to F-off as a response. They can keep their machines.

#144 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Theme. Aerosmith just doesn't inspire the "fuck yeah, COOOL!!!" passion. That Met & ACDC do. And on top of that, it's not as good of a game as Met. I think it got a lot of credit for not being a total bungle like the last few games - it's competent...but it's still extremely uninspired and generic. Somehow it lacks personality and certain spark, even tho it has a great art package and cool main toy.
One of the local barcades just swapped it out for something else already. Even being their only Color LCD game - no one was playing it. That's a testament to the "turn off factor" of the theme.

Maybe I'm just the only one that likes it that much then. I think it's great though. Not a theme I love but great art, good toys, solid code, fun as heck for me.

#145 6 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

Maybe I'm just the only one that likes it that much then. I think it's great though. Not a theme I love but great art, good toys, solid code, fun as heck for me.

I really enjoyed the AS premium I played recently. I thought the art package, play field, flow, toys, etc...were all well done. The main toy in AS is creative and a lot of fun. I think if and when Stern actually fine tunes the code it could right up there with Met and ACDC....

#146 6 years ago
Quoted from glasairpilot:

" Spooky to a much smaller extent just took up 250 or so more sales from stern with TNA."
Man, I hope not. I have blocked everyone associated with Spooky Pinball. It seems they can't finish a thought without the "F" word being in it. Excessive profanity is a big turn off to me - especially in business. I asked them to please tone down the profanity as I wanted my kids to be involved on pinside and I think it was Brian told me to F-off as a response. They can keep their machines.

Strange, I have never seen anything like that from KT or Charlie who are Spooky. Never had a bad response online, at shows, by email, or on the phone.

#147 6 years ago
Quoted from glasairpilot:

" Spooky to a much smaller extent just took up 250 or so more sales from stern with TNA."
Man, I hope not. I have blocked everyone associated with Spooky Pinball. It seems they can't finish a thought without the "F" word being in it. Excessive profanity is a big turn off to me - especially in business. I asked them to please tone down the profanity as I wanted my kids to be involved on pinside and I think it was Brian told me to F-off as a response. They can keep their machines.

Never heard Charlie or KT go off on a profanity laced bender, got a recording?

#148 6 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

Price increases happen almost solely due to a decrease in the bottom line.

Please box and ship me some of whatever it is u are smoking, I'm an ex pot head but it might be to good to pass up. Thanks

#149 6 years ago

Have now played SWLE.

Overall it was disappointing. Compare ASLE with mirrored backglass and the translite on SWLE looks as 'flat as a pancake'. No depth or sparkle, and not good enough for a supposed LE.

The Stern screen really pops and is a huge jump forward over the red dmd. HD clips look great.

As for the game, well, as others have said, it feels so incredibly disjointed and confusing.

Doesn't shoot as smooth as expecting for a SR game.

And it just wasn't that fun to play.

At current prices, it was not what I was expecting.

Stern need to up their game as if JJP get their Lawlor Toy Story game to be epic, could really hit Stern's bottom line in 2018.

#150 6 years ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

The main toy in AS is creative and a lot of fun. I think if and when Stern actually fine tunes the code it could right up there with Met and ACDC....

Why do you believe they'd fine tune it? It's done. Lyman did ACDC and Metallica - Aero will never have the amount of nuance and depth as those games. I think Lonnie did a good job with Aero in the sense that it launched complete & the game "knows what it is"...but it's just kind of a generic game like Kiss. I'll give Lonnie credit though, I think he might be the smartest one there. He knows he has limited time and won't have time to revisit a game if it launches incomplete...so, he does what he knows - the game gets out the door, and you can play it and it all works.

We've been really lucky with Lyman games, because he wants to make something amazing every time despite Stern not giving him the time to do so...so, his games launch with early code and he works on his own time to give us great games. But honestly, I don't think Stern really cares or appreciates what he brings to the table and all the free work he does in his own time. I'm not a fan of people working for free...but I see artists do it ALL THE TIME. They do it because they love their art, but in a commercial job, they're really just being taken advantage of. For Lyman's sake - I hope he realizes he doesn't have to outdo himself every time...he should take a cue from Lonnie...if they only give him 4 months to code a game, give Stern what they're paying for...a "4 month game". Simple, functional, everything lights up and works...but don't give them art. He's proven over and over that he can give them art that sells games....but, they're not paying for art. So, give them what they're paying for.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 19.00
Cabinet - Other
Pin Monk
Other
8,400
Machine - For Sale
Palm Springs, CA
$ 69.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
Toys/Add-ons
From: $ 50.00
Cabinet - Decals
arcade-cabinets.com
Decals
$ 6,999.00
Pinball Machine
Classic Game Rooms
Pinball Machine
$ 80.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Reflex Mods
Shooter rods
$ 25.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pin Modster
Toys/Add-ons
$ 130.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Dijohn
Decorations
$ 19.95
Cabinet - Other
Pin Monk
Other
From: $ 50.00
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
arcade-cabinets.com
Armor and blades
From: $ 11.00
From: $ 5.00
Cabinet - Other
Pin Monk
Other
€ 80.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pino Pinball Mods Shop
Toys/Add-ons
$ 120.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
Shooter rods
$ 69.99
Cabinet - Decals
Inscribed Solutions
Decals
$ 169.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Maine Home Recreation
Shooter rods
7,850
Machine - For Sale
Wilkes-barre, PA
$ 24.95
Lighting - Other
The MOD Couple
Other
$ 54.00
Cabinet - Toppers
Slipstream Mod Shop
Toppers
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Los Angeles, CA
$ 63.99
Cabinet - Other
Cento Creations
Other
$ 69.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
Toys/Add-ons
$ 50.00
Playfield - Protection
Duke Pinball
Protection
$ 3,999.00
Pinball Machine
Classic Game Rooms
Pinball Machine
From: $ 6.00
$ 26.50
$ 48.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Pixels Arcade Games
Toys/Add-ons
From: $ 12.00
Flipper Parts
Precision Pinball prod.
Flipper parts
$ 49.99
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lighted Pinball Mods
Toys/Add-ons
Hey modders!
Your shop name here
There are 224 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 5.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/star-wars-le-is-likely-my-last-new-stern-machine/page/3 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.