I was in the position to either get into a new star wars or grab a nice used title and ended up with an xmen magneto le for 4900 with mods and a color dmd.I just felt like bang for the buck I did way better.I think many people(including myself) had such high hopes for the star wars title it was just not quite up to snuff with the current price points from stern.

Finally, someone gets it.

I think this is now becoming my approach. I do enjoy purchasing a NIB pin and taking part in the discussions about code, tweaks, etc. but it has gotten to the point where the risk is more than the reward. Paying over 8K number one is crazy, add to that the stripped down game with not even a shaker motor from factory-are you kidding me?

The way I see it now is there is no need to buy NIB for Premium/LE models. I personally do not think there will ever be another title from Stern that would be so limited or so desirable that people would purchase without playing it in person first for fear they will not be able to purchase one later for a reasonable price. If Star Wars did not sell out and is still available NIB today-the hype train has come to a screeching halt. You can now wait for months or even years while all of the defects and beta code issues are taken care of without fear of paying a premium at a later date. If Stern never steps up to complete the game or fix issues-then guess what-you don't buy it. Pinsiders who learn and practice patience will likely not have any regrets with a new purchase.

I think LE now stands for " Lacking Extras "

I've played both the pro and LE. There are sounds and images from the movie all over it so upon first glance it seems like a great game but this is just a smokescreen for those who expect more. If pinball is a temporary rush and all it takes is to play the Star Wars theme music to make one happy, then this game is fantastic. But for collectors who view each release as a potential work of art they might keep for many years, Star Wars fails on so many fronts. Star Wars fans wanted it to be 100x better and it's just so clear that they cut every corner they could.

When AS was released, I could see there was love put into this game. Great art, toys and decent layout and code. No AS fan would be disappointed. Notice on AS how the art style is consistent between screen, playfield and cabinet. This takes time and forethought and they nailed that. They designed a new main toy and it works too - no easy feat.

Now look closely at SW. Look at the art style on the cabinet, playfield and screen. All different like it was rushed and all done by different people. No one even cared to look at details like this. No new toys designed here and pro has no toys at all(!) which is something quite bold even for Stern.

Look at the mangled mess of the code which almost no one can understand (I couldn't). The blending of all movies into one mishmash without honoring the storyline progression or emotional buildup of the movies. Heck even the professionals players have difficulty progressing through this game. Its beta code not even at 1.0. No other company has balls to sell and release beta code like this to the public never mind for something this expensive.

So again, if you look at pinball as the equivalent of a plastic fork because it just gets the job done, then I agree that SW works just fine. For those of us who expect much much more, SW is a slap to the face of the collector pinball hobby. Maybe I'm wrong and SW will go down as beloved by all but my bet is that collectors are not as stupid as Stern thinks they are and you will see resale prices plummet compared to any other recent titles. Stern has pissed off a lot of people and hurt the collector hobby. We all want them to succeed of course but they are going about things the wrong way.

I've said it once I'll say it again. Stern pretty much should have included this with every new SW purchase. Tie Fighter toy on Pro for $8500 CAD is a f*in joke.

Star Wars looks to be Sterns ultimate attempt to make the most profit ever on a single game. How did they do it? First off strip the playfield down. "High flow" is not a good thing when there's little on the playfield and new games now cost $5k-$9k.

Second, remove a real backglass from the LE and replace it with 3 translites. 3 translites is better then 1 real beautiful mirrored backglass right? No!

Third, remove other LE features such as a shaker motor.

Finally, make the most stripped down pro game to date with not a single interactive toy or feature. Oh, well there is a button...

This game should have been so much better on all fronts.

It's pretty funny that so many of you are accusing stern of trying to make the most profit they can. That is exactly what every company large or small is trying to do. Especially companies that have outside backers. I think the OP said it very well and represented what a lot of people feel. But there are a lot of others that just seem to be whining because games cost more then they want to pay now and they still want NIB pins so they are pissed.

It's real simple, stop buying them and things will change. This literally happens on every new game stern releases. There's a huge uproar and no one is ever buying another one until things change. 5 months later the next license that someone has to have is released with a $200 or more price increase and the same people buy the game and then whine and say never again. Fast forward 5 months and history keeps repeating itself. I think some of you need help with your OCD NIB pin buying habits. They do not seem to be bringing you the happiness that you seek.

Holy &^^$!
Upvotes on the initial post in the 30's - with zero negatives.

That may be an honest to goodness Pinside first.

Are you friggin listening Stern???????

EXACTLY!!!!!

This is the only weapon in ours, the buyers, arsenal!

They sure are - to that cash register going "CHA CHING!" until people stop buying.

Not going to happen. At least half the pinball people I know have already moved on and are excited for the GOTG release. Pinball people have very short memories and just can't seem to help themselves. It will have more toys as Borg games always do and be the same price as SW. People will justify it as its a cool theme with good art and toys unlike what they thought SW was. There will be 400 LE's and people will be fighting to get one.

All LE's should be limited to no more than 500, and actually include something that differentiates it from the Premium model....i.e Star Trek LE....then most people would stop bitching (we'll maybe not).....I'll NEVER purchase a NIB game from Stern....I've limited my new games to CGC and JJP...a year from now I'll bet u can buy a used SW LE, HUO for close to $7K....look at the GB LE market....fun game, actually full of toys, and other cool features...now the market is low to mid 7's for an LE....

You just listed things that you think an LE should be required to have and yet you bought either LE's or premiums of sterns last 2 releases? Why did you buy them if you are so pissed at stern? Your logic for pricing on the secondary market is also very off. JJP games have lost more value in most cases than stern games. A year from now you will be able to buy a DILE for $7500 and Hobbits for $5500 HUO.

I totally agree on callouts. It seems like there are fewer and fewer unique callouts on Stern games. You end up hearing the same ones over and over and pretty much hear them all after running through the modes once. I get creating rules, lighting effects, animations, etc. are all complicated and take time to produce. However, I would think adding a bunch of callouts and throwing up random ones now and then would be very easy. It's always fun when you hear a unique callout that you never heard before - or a unique callout that is special to one game for doing something cool like hitting a big jackpot. A lot of Stern games end up sounding the same.

I bought two NIB Stern games the last few years but think I am done as well. Mostly because of pricing but can't say any Stern game has been that exciting to me in a while. It's also frustrating to see games get stripped down and have few unique details. How about a third flipper? I've never understood you LE buyers. You pay so much for just different art and a plaque but always complain that you don't get anything special. Just buy a premium and use some of the money you saved to buy a few mods.

Here is what u don't understand....First I didn't buy new Stern games, and second I don't really care about the money. If your in this hobby for the $ than u best find something else to do. I don't mind forking out the money for an LE if I ACTUALLY get something for it. Buying most NIB pinball games is like buying a car. You'll probably take a 10% hit after u open the box. There are exceptions, but not many (TRON LE, ACDC LE, etc). Your living on Mars if you think u can purchase a NIB DI LE for $7500 delivered....

Learn to read dude. DILE's are going to be plentiful and will take a 1K hit on the HUO market. My post said nothing about NIB DILE's Your post was literally about sterns losing value. So what in the world are you trying to say?

They all lose value Dude (well most), and most NIB pins at some point will be plentiful...the difference is you actually get value with CGC and JJP LE pins....Stern not so much....facts are facts....clearly u don't agree, which is perfectly fine

Stern was hacked see link for details and how to safe guard your computer and identity.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-hacked-do-not-open-invoice-emails-from-stern#post-3975943

I've played a dozen games or so of SW and I can say I don't find the game that "fun" especially not $8,700 USD fun. Maybe after another dozen, I will..................but I doubt it?

Stern is "all in" on licences.

Yes. Gobbling up coveted licenses and then squandering the end product is sending the hobby into an even BIGGER rage.

Wow! Lets all stop buying NIB machines so all the pinball factories can close. Bit like the same thing that happened in the late 90's. Were you guys around then? Gary Stern was the only person with the drive and passion to keep pinball manufacturing alive. Stern still happen to be the largest manufacturer of pinball machines in the world.

Driving away pinball enthusiasts that like Stern machines is not good for Pinside either. Maybe instead of hating one manufacturer you can start loving another? You guys are doing your best to destroy our much loved hobby. You are a disgrace to the silver ball.

How many NIB Sterns have you bought in the last 10 years?

Pfft, where to start, but it's clear you miss the point. No one wants stern to fail, that's ridiculous. A lot do however, want stern to find the balance between customer satisfaction and profit.

You however, are advocating for blind loyalty which is insane. What if they just sold a cab and playfield with two flippers and nothing else for $10k. Do you buy it because "stern saved pinball"? What's your squeak point? Of course you don't buy it, and company history only buys you so much good will. The fact that some people have decided enough is enough is understandable to me.

I think everyone agrees stern has the capabilities to make fun games, and most of the time does. But if they were to focus a little more on the customer, and less on the bottom line I think the sales increase would cover additional costs.
To each their own I guess.

you clearly are missing the point.

Sycophant ALERT!!!!

We are not OBLIGATED to buy pinball machines. Stern is not ENTITLED to my money. They still need to create a well made product that has some value for what it costs. You're saying you'll buy garbage for $8k+ to keep their doors open? Enjoy....but don't call those of us who refuse "disgraces".

The "hobby" will always exist. New manufacturers give us choices, but they're irrelevant to "the hobby". The hobby = pinball...there will always be TONS of pinball machines in circulation when no one is making them anymore. If any new game manufacturer is "destroyed", it's due to their own actions, not the customer base rejecting their product.

Do you even know why Williams closed in the 90's? The arcade was dying, and pins didn't earn on location. There was no "home market". Slot machines made more money for them, so they quit. Why did Gary keep doing it? Cuz he had no competition and could eek out a living as the only manufacturer of a niche retro coin-op device.

6. How many have you bought?

Most people that know me. Know that I wanted out of my Stern Star Wars LE. My distributor basically told me I couldn't back out without loosing the sizable downpayment. This was three weeks before it shipped.

Now that I have my Star Wars LE fixed and have been playing it ALOT. At least 500 plays now.

SO I WAS and Still am Pissed about Stern and what I felt was misleading marketing.
I thought there was going to be a Magnetic Force in front of pop bumpers.
Originally I thought the side rails were to have LED effect.
I to felt the game should of come with Side Art and a Shaker Motor.
3 Translites is totally lame give me.
I also wish the Video clips were better managed and longer.
800 LEs ( Total slap in the MOFO face stern. This was announced after my deposit was in Dealers hand )

That said. I still love my game. Although Premium ( Would of been good enough for me ).

That said this is my first and last LE from Stern. Unless Stern really does something over the top. All the value added stuff really should
be part of LE.

Hopefully my Chicago Coin AFMRLE will restore some faith in high end pins.

I am not advocating blind loyalty. We are probably one of Sterns biggest complainers. We lodge with them all our issues on every machine both NIB and second hand. We do not start rumours on Pinside or post negativity on the FB site. We deal directly with Stern and our Distro. Every issue we have ever had has eventually been resolved. This is what we are all about. You have to remember that we live in Australia and do not have many choices. There are only 2 distros for all manufacturers and I must say, both distros do a fantastic job. You and I are on the same page, I agree with most of what you say and I do believe that you want our hobby to survive and flourish.

Everyone whip their dicks out!

Cuz that's what this is.

No one wants to see it. (I think)

This can't be said enough: NIB Sales are not "THE HOBBY". Pinball can and will exist without new games, if that's what it comes down to.

I have no issue with you or what you posted. Value is a perception and everybody's perception is different. We are all entitled to our opinions. My statement is directed at Pinsiders determined to destroy this hobby, not you. If you do not like a machine, do not buy it. That is the only statement required that will affect any product on any market.

I made a statement about pinball and you made it about dick size.

Rarehero, You have no idea what you are talking about. The only thing that destroys a company is not enough sales.

I was hoping before the reveal that the side rails would have copied STLE (Enterprise and Phaser fire) but instead with an X wing and "red" laser fire on one side and a Tie Fighter with "green" laser fire on the other. And to really top the package of Lightsabers laser cut and led light (one blue "obi wan" one red "vader") into the lock down bar with them meeting/clashing where the lock down button is. The fact the lockdown button didn't have a laser cut plate around it like all previous releases kind of made me hopeful it wasn't finished and something like that could have been added.

10. You need to support Stern more.

-I've saved countless games from destruction, repaired & restored them, and put them back out into the world as fully functional games.
-I've helped countless people with issues and helped them fix their games.
-I've helped countless people understand the rules of lots of games.
-I've sent TONS of new customers to my fav distributor, giving him lots of new business.
-I've worked with Stern in an official capacity.
-I've worked with Stern unofficially, helping them bug test and giving advice on code...my help has ended up in the games.
-I've helped ColorDMD bug testing and giving advice on tons of games.
-I've helped friends open a local barcade.

...so, am I really "destroying this hobby"? How about we dial it down with this "destroying the hobby" nonsense....since you clearly don't even understand a thing about what this "hobby" actually is.

WTF have YOU done for "the hobby"!??!?!

Well done mate that is awesome! You are in the same position as us. Both new and used pins are very rare and very expensive so we appreciate each and every one.

Happy Flipping!

You have no idea what you're talking about. A company doesn't get enough sales by making a product not enough people want. It's on a company to EARN sales. They're not ENTITLED to sales. Make a great product, sales will come. If sales don't come, that's the fault of the company.

Lets be honest we are all on this site because we share an interest/love of all things pinball, to say anyone on this site wants to destroy this hobby is foolish. Also pinball manufacturers providing NIB sales are not the foundation of this hobby, we are, NIB sales are just a choice for us within the hobby to purchase, if all pinball companies closed their doors tomorrow, we would all still be here trading or buying and selling games between us keeping the hobby alive.

Dude, that is sensational stuff! We do the same for as many people as we can. This is what must be done to keep the hobby alive. Why bag Stern product so much? Lets just agree to dis agree. I am good with that.

I hope you got an SWLE before they're all gone for the 10000 AUD retail. Stern needs you man. Cue Teekee's quote.

Edit: I see you have one already, in that case thank you!

this derailed but gave me an idea for a post . So I better make it before some one else does !!!!. Good luck not Supporting Stern!

I agree with you, problem is that in Australia and NZ there are no where near enough second hand machines to go round so they are worth a fortune. NIB machines are sold out months before the containers arrive. People have put deposits down for AFMr in March and no delivery date yet. We need as many NIB or second hand machines to come in to this country as possible to help reduce price pressure. So yes, we will defend every manufacturer. The more the better. Second hand machines (newer titles and old classics)that are listed on our local forum are usually sold in less than 12 hours.

We did. And it cost $13K AUD after we fitted a shaker motor and mirror blades. My wife loves it already so it is worth every cent.

GBLE was also, likely my last NIB, but for other reasons, namely funds.

Im just fine waiting for an HUO, and no rush.

But Im finding great joy in older EMs, and System 11 Games.
All new to play, and for me...thats Great Pinball!

Would be worse if no one gave a sh*t what Stern did.