Star Wars Episode I
Williams, 1999The shield comes up when a game is started after the ball is shot and comes down through the flipper return lane. My question is – when should it go back down? By staying up, it doesn’t go through the video scenes correctly. From my limited understanding, you’re supposed to hit the shield a few times when the shield is down to go up and then go through a video scene.
I had a similar shield issues when I had my swe1.
Turns out there was a diode on the shield mechanism the broke off due to all the up/down shaking/impact.
A little bit of solder and it was back to normal (staying up when it was supposed to and going down when appropriate).
I'd pop the playfield and check the underside for loose wires/diodes around shield mechanism.
Fingers crossed that you have the same simple issue that I had.
Quoted from pinball_erie:By shield, do you mean the hologram??
I think he is talking about the fence. "center shot" It lifts up allowing you to shoot and drops to block the shot.
Quoted from Jean-Luc-Picard:I think he is talking about the fence. "center shot" It lifts up allowing you to shoot and drops to block the shot.
Duh, you're right. Sad part is that I have one and was too much of a dumbass to figure that out. Thanks !!
Quoted from Ranhorton:Turns out there was a diode on the shield mechanism the broke off due to all the up/down shaking/impact.
Ok, checked the shield operation thoroughly - not sure what "diode on the mechanism" you are referring to Ranhorton. I checked all switches on and around the shield, everything is working properly. When the shield goes up at the beginning of a game and the ball is shot into the eject hole (passed the shield), the ball is ejected up to the ramp (one side or the other) and the shield should come down but does not. When I open the coin door interlock (or remove playfield power), the shield comes down, so I know mechanically the shield mechanism works. The shield should come down when the ball is ejected from the eject hole, and the only switches I can see that would control that are the actual eject hole opto or the sensor switches on the ramp where the ball ejects onto. I'm starting to think that it is a programming problem, the shield coil isn't being told to power down so the shield can drop, unless there is another switch I'm not seeing.
Hmmmm.
I too am a bit stumped.
My problem revolved around the shield not staying up when it was supposed to.
Have you gone through the switch tests in the test features?
Also, is there a shield test in the game you can run?
It's been years since I owned this game but will see if I can dig up some more info on this problem.
And hopefully someone else reading this tread that currently owns a SWE1 can jump in with some ideas to fix this problem.
I found this comment:
"Connections between the playfield and cabinet's interconnect can also be problematic. This can be caused by the playfield wiring harness stressing the connections. If solenoids are not engaging, check these connections."
http://www.pinballsupernova.com/Williams%20Repair%20Guide/Pinball%202000%20Repair%20.pdf
Hi, if you just got the game....Also check the game settings to see if the game is set to hard. That would require more center shots to lift the shield. To start modes. And if it is set to side target hits count towards shield hits in settings too.
And check the shield opto switches. They may test good in switch test by breaking the beam but if you roll a ball past quickly they might not register. I had this problem with my SWE1 when I had it. Replacing the optos fixed it.
Quoted from Gabe:Ok, checked the shield operation thoroughly - not sure what "diode on the mechanism" you are referring to Ranhorton. I checked all switches on and around the shield, everything is working properly. When the shield goes up at the beginning of a game and the ball is shot into the eject hole (passed the shield), the ball is ejected up to the ramp (one side or the other) and the shield should come down but does not. When I open the coin door interlock (or remove playfield power), the shield comes down, so I know mechanically the shield mechanism works. The shield should come down when the ball is ejected from the eject hole, and the only switches I can see that would control that are the actual eject hole opto or the sensor switches on the ramp where the ball ejects onto. I'm starting to think that it is a programming problem, the shield coil isn't being told to power down so the shield can drop, unless there is another switch I'm not seeing.
Gabe,
Like Ranhorton and you I had problems with this mechanism when I got my SWE1. I had to fix several problems... First, the diode on the switch that senses whether the fence is "up" or "down" was cracked so I replaced it. Second, the long rod that connects the fence to the solenoid had a small lip that had formed from use where the two pieces meet. The mechanism was "hanging" on this metal lip. I replaced the rod with one that was in stock at Marco... did a quick peek at their site and I think it is part #04-12627.1 and it is still in stock, but check the manual before buying. Third, the switch that senses whether the fence is "up or "down" was mis-triggering and confusing the game. It is held in place by two screws so I put a washer between the switch and each mount hole to create an extra 32nd inch of separation. I liked my washer solution because it was 100% removable if it didn't work. Combined all these things got it working and it's been reliable for about 8 months now... but granted only light home use.
I guess my point/advise is there is a lot of mechanical stuff happening with that fence and that thing gets used constantly through gameplay, so I'd encourage you to ensure the mechanical is right before suspecting software or something not directly associated with the mechanism. Actuate the mechanism slowly by hand and feel how smooth (or not) the motion is. Listen for the switch to engage/disengage. For me it was a very slow process.
-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or for my Pinball 2000 H+V video sync combiner kit
Quoted from Ranhorton:Also check the sub miniature micro switch (12 and 16 in the image).
Right on - that's the switch I put the washers under. Part #3 is the "rod" I was referring to - the drawing even shows the seam in the middle that had lipped out on mine. Pic really helps, Ranhorton!
-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or for my Pinball 2000 H+V video sync combiner kit
Quoted from Ranhorton:Have you gone through the switch tests in the test features?
Also, is there a shield test in the game you can run?
All switches are good. I’ve checked them manually and there are no switches that come up bad in “read test report”, only a few lamps.
There is not a shield test but in solenoid test there is a shield power and a shield hold, same as the flipper power and flipper hold. In flipper power, the flipper strongly engages, and in flipper hold you can hear the flipper attempting to engage, whereas shield power strongly engages the shield but you can’t hear anything during shield hold. I don’t think that makes a difference because the shield engaging (going up) is not the problem, it doesn’t go down. If I were to open the coin door to remove power, the shield will go down and when I close it, the shield stays down and plays correctly until the shield goes back up, and does not go back down.
Quoted from erak:Hi, if you just got the game....Also check the game settings to see if the game is set to hard. That would require more center shots to lift the shield. To start modes. And if it is set to side target hits count towards shield hits in settings too.
And check the shield opto switches. They may test good in switch test by breaking the beam but if you roll a ball past quickly they might not register. I had this problem with my SWE1 when I had it. Replacing the optos fixed it.
Thanks for the reply erak – the problem is not lifting the shield, the shield lifts but does not come down, so you can’t go through the process of hitting the shield to lift it. You always go past the shield and into the eject hole. When you pass the optos in front of the shield, it acts and scores as though you’ve hit it but it goes into the eject hole and back down the ramp, so it takes longer to actually accomplish hitting the shield.
All optos are good as well as all switches.
Quoted from Ranhorton:Also check the sub miniature micro switch (12 and 16 in the image).
There is only one switch in the back of the shield assembly which in this diagram is switch 12, there is no switch 16. That switch is #57 (Shield up) in the switch matrix which works perfectly.
Quoted from rkahr:Gabe,
Like Ranhorton and you I had problems with this mechanism when I got my SWE1. I had to fix several problems... First, the diode on the switch that senses whether the fence is "up" or "down" was cracked so I replaced it. Second, the long rod that connects the fence to the solenoid had a small lip that had formed from use where the two pieces meet. The mechanism was "hanging" on this metal lip. I replaced the rod with one that was in stock at Marco... did a quick peek at their site and I think it is part #04-12627.1 and it is still in stock, but check the manual before buying. Third, the switch that senses whether the fence is "up or "down" was mis-triggering and confusing the game. It is held in place by two screws so I put a washer between the switch and each mount hole to create an extra 32nd inch of separation. I liked my washer solution because it was 100% removable if it didn't work. Combined all these things got it working and it's been reliable for about 8 months now... but granted only light home use.
I guess my point/advise is there is a lot of mechanical stuff happening with that fence and that thing gets used constantly through gameplay, so I'd encourage you to ensure the mechanical is right before suspecting software or something not directly associated with the mechanism. Actuate the mechanism slowly by hand and feel how smooth (or not) the motion is. Listen for the switch to engage/disengage. For me it was a very slow process.
-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or for my Pinball 2000 H+V video sync combiner kit
Thanks for the reply rkahr – I know the shield up switch is functioning correctly and there are no mechanical hangups as the shield falls perfectly when I remove playfield power (by opening the coin door interlock), and the switch registers correctly in switch test when up (and off when down). Plus by manually moving the shield up and down you can see and hear the switch working correctly. The shield just does not want to power down to drop when it is supposed to. The only thing I can think of is a switch is not triggering the power down or the cpu never signals the power down.
So in the settings is it set to easy? No hits to the shield. Or has the shield been disabled in settings?
A factory reset might be required to clear any wierd settings in case it was updated while having a setting changed. And it's still stored in the memory even though it looks to be in default mode.
Not sure....because in your initial post you said it went up then stayed down. Now you are saying it stays up?
Check the diodes on the microswitch on the shield mech as other have said.
Good luck
Is it possible the coil lugs have the wrong wires attached to them?
Like they're reversed. If I remember correctly, wires were not soldered on to coils on swe1 but instead were crimped on. Would miss wiring cause this issue?
I did not check, but am assuming that they are correct because the shield goes up correctly and when it should. I don't think it would matter because even if it were wired incorrectly, the problem would be the shield not able to go up because the hold winding wouldn't (or shouldn't) be strong enough for it to go up. And the problem of it not being able to go down would still exist. But your suggestion has me thinking about unplugging the hold side. That would at least tell me if the cpu is doing its job and switching to the hold side after the shield goes up. If it's working correctly, the shield should go down right after going up. Great suggestion Ranhorton, thanks!
The shield should not always go immediately down depending on the mode you started or what difficulty the machine is set at. You can also have it set that the targets at either side register hits to the shield in settings as well.
This would make the shield go up much sooner. Or if it's set to disabled it will be up all the time.
I would still check the diode on the shields microswitch. Or the shield mechs coil diodes to see if they are good.
From what you are saying... that it works fine on start until it goes up. I would think the micro switch is bad. That tells that the mech is up.
That would make it go up and stay up.
Don't trust that manually hitting the switch that the mech is hitting it. Pull up on the mech during switch test and see if it registers. Maybe the switch works but is out of adjustment.
The shield starts in the down position when a game is started. When the ball shooter shoots the first ball, the ball goes up to the lower part of the main ramp (right side of course), the ball rolls down the ramp and then drops over the right inlane (ball return) switch, and as soon as it hits that inlane switch, the shield goes up. I’m pretty sure this is normal because I watched a few Youtube videos and the shield goes up the same way. Then once you flipper the ball into the hologram area (ball goes into the “shield popper” eject hole), the ball gets ejected onto the ramp (hitting the ramp made switch) and the shield is supposed to go down. As far as I know, that is what is supposed to happen. Though I am not sure when the ball is ejected from the shield popper, whether the ramp made switch triggers the shield to come down or if it is the opto when leaving the shield popper eject hole.
I did not check to see if the drop targets are disabled, but I did do a factory restore so I am assuming that if there was a setting that keeps the shield up, it would have changed the setting. Even so, the feature adjustment for drop targets disabled says that the “ramp enter” switch (switches 46 and 47) compensate for drop target hits, so I don’t think that would have an effect on whether the shield stays up. However, the feature adjustment to disable shield would have an effect, but that would keep the shield down. This does make me think there’s a possibility that the drive circuit for the shield may be the problem keeping the shield up. Something else to look for, thanks!
As far as the shield up microswitch - believe me, I checked it thoroughly to make sure it is working correctly, as well as the shield hit optos in front of the shield.
Gabe,
Baltimore is a big place, but generally a one-hour drive from me. If it would help, you can pull your playfield and bring it here to try it in my machine. It will either have the same issue you are seeing in MD or it will work identically to how mine works in VA... It's a lot of effort, but it could help you conclusively determine whether the playfield or something driving it is the issue.
-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or for my Pinball 2000 H+V video sync combiner kit
Quoted from Gabe:hanks Rob, very much appreciate it. I think I have enough information to go on when I go back. I wasn't familiar enough with the game play to knock it out, but I'm pretty sure I can narrow the problem down. Thanks again..
You know (approximately) where I am if you change your mind later on... Of course I have conflicts on the Texas Pinball Festival and Allentown weekends (and likely the Pintastic weekend)!
-Rob
-visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or for my Pinball 2000 H+V video sync combiner kit
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Baltimore, MD
Grimsby, ON