Wow, he does it all the time? just because someone calls you on ur crap doesn't make them a militant, code on SW's is fine, most games need some explanation unless its a very simple rule set, when I had Twilight Zone non pinheads or even players that never had a lot of time on the game didn't know what the hell was going on, by the way I can help myself as luckily there's an ignore option.

Already edited my post.

Still, the Tron spinning disc is freakin' cool.

Totally agree...never said it wasn't!

I know, only saying it because I just finished a game on Tron.

Ok haven't checked in for a while, you guys still hate Star Wars? Did that new premium video change anything?

Loved playing the pro, loved the premium video (coding warts and all!). Keeping my order.

TNA and Houdini presales are through the roof!

While I haven't played SW yet, this is exactly how I feel, even with Hobbit. I had mine up for sale at $6700 and pulled it off the market after seeing SW. Glad it didn't sell!!

Better hurry, they might sell out early!

They are certainly getting "fancier" with the light shows. So much can be done with RGB. In a few years, we will look at non RGB games the same way as B&W tv.

for NON pinball people.....yes they do. DE SW playfield looks like a whole lot of fun compared to the stern.

When I was getting back into pinball (after a 9 year break). There was a bowling alley of 5 games. Had TSPP, TOM, TOTAN, AFM, Sopranos. I have not played any of these games at that time as I missed them when they were released, as I stopped playing for awhile about 1995-1996. All of them looked fun except AFM. Which looked like an empty piece of shit. So I played all the rest several times and didn't play AFM at all, because the playfield didn't look good enough to get my money.

This. The local barcade has both a SW:pro and SW DE. I was shocked more people were gravitating to the old Data East game and only the local pinheads seem to be playing Sterns new title. Both games were priced the same.

You mean we will miss it and see that they held up for content over looks?

Like classic B&W movies, Cassablanca and 12 Angry Men? Actual good writing and acting made them classics. Todays stuff is $M, CGI and rehashed plot lines. Empty and will not hold the test of time.

this is exactly what i'm saying.

I assume you are posting this because people have mentioned the BOM and how sparse the playfield is. And while that may be true, it's not the entire issue.

If you compare it to something like Alien, it just doesn't hold a candle to the "world under the glass" and immersion. If you look at Alien it doesn't have a lot of toys. In fact, it has a fairly similar amount of toys. The notable exception is that the Xeno head acts like a bash toy unlike the Death Star. So, it feels like it has more because you are interacting with it. Ultimately, Alien really pulled me into its universe and makes me want to come back for more!

I'm guessing things may be get better as the code evolves, but I just don't feel like I'm pulled into the Star Wars universe. It feels too generic. Yeah it has a bunch of modes, but they aren't satisfying or immersive to me. Kind of like a Hobbit lite. This is the big thing for me: not being pull into the Star War universe. I don't know if code can save it, it might help though.

Don't get me wrong, to me, it's a good game but, it's not a great game. Unfortunately, I don't think code can make it great due to the physical layout constrains.

From an operator viewpoint, not good. But since when are the masses correct. Ironman is pretty bare and brutal, but it's a great game. Star Wars is as good or better than ironman. Same build quality.

I bought a high end restored SWDE, planning to put SW premium beside it.

I still consider the motorized target bank and spinning disk on Tron toys. Those are two items that actually move and interact with the ball.

Imagine Tron without the spinning disk and instead of the motorized target bank 3 stand up targets. Now that's Star Wars

Star Wars as a whole comes across as a game created for the sole purpose of having the lowest build of materials cost in order for Stern to generate their biggest per game profit.

Steve Ritchie himself said at a show a few months ago while talking about Star Wars that "Gary hates anything that cost money". After he said the comment he said he was joking but that seems like the truth more and more as time goes on.

Not to argue, but that's kinda my point. There isn't even a pseudo-toy on SW like a spinning disc or motorized bank!!

There's a pretty nice LCD screen on the pf and the death star lights up so to say there is nothing isn't entirely fair. I'd put more weight on the lcd, of course.

There's a f**king TIE fighter on a spring!!! What more do you want???

One more TIE fighter, a better Death Star shot, and a couple X-Wings.

Imagine if they had a jump shot into an opening on the Death Star. That would have been AMAZING.

I can't believe I am defending stern but I suspect some of the 'toy' cash for game went into the lighting which is above average for other pros. I also wonder if they worked out something like more programmer hours on the code? Those are both costs and I am sure stern considers them as well as part of the overall package.

Pro should have gotten the hyper loop. Premium and up should have gotten that on playfield LCD screen. Think there would be a lot less negativity if they went that route.

Can't tell if serious or not, but pretty funny either way!

Geez, it was just a reference to the progression of technology. I did not even offer an opinion (because I don't have one yet). I was making an observation (one that I can quantify). I don't get that emotional over pinball.

Hey, they could have just rethemed LOTR and used the ring shot for the Death Star shot!!!

I wanted to like this game...but even a second Tie fighter on a spring can't do that for me.

I also think a big swing and miss was not being able to choose a dark side character. Think Transformers, you can be good guy or bad guy.

Totally joking. I realize the BOM is really low on this game.

...and that doesn't mean the game is bad. It's fun. It's a little confusing, has scoring issues (with the lame multiplier rules), and I think it has too many hurry-ups, but it is fun. I'll play the crap out of it on location. Just wish it was physically anywhere near worth the price of it. It's not.

Umm...a TIE fighter that isn't on a spring maybe? Lmao.

Worst pinball playfield toy ever hands down! Lol

Maybe not a "retheme" but I think the "DTR" style shot would have worked very well..!

It just feels real flat. Especially compared to other recent Ritchie games like Star Trek and GOT.

Worst ever? I dunno... there are ALOT of contenders out there for that title...

I keep telling myself the same thing about SW in relation to TRON.

But then again some themes don't need a lot of playfield toys that interact with the ball, other themes work better with playfield toys that interact with the ball. Ironman & Tron might be pretty light on playfield toys but what they do have suits the theme and more importantly the rules and gameplay perfectly.

The magnets on IM makes it feel like there is more on the playfield than there really is, but they don't really slow the ball/gameplay down, they change the direction of the ball but and at times speed it up but the magnets keep the speed of the game fairly consistent, plus any game with 3 spinners is a winner, what pinhead doesn't love spinners. Tron is the same super fast, none of the stuff that interacts with the ball really slows it down.

I think the problem with SW and this is just speculation from my own personal opinion, is its a theme that I expected would have a loaded playfield, with so many iconic things from SW, I was hoping for a playfield as loaded as GB with AT-AT with a spinning T-47 Snowspeeder (like the munchkinland in WOZ with the spinning house), Sarlacc Pit or Carbonite chamber with multiball scoop (like the one used in TF, Hans Carbonite is an iconic scene).

I would have loved some stuff in the code that was more SW, meeting Vader for the first time as Obi-Wan, come the end of the mode flippers go dead so you can be "striked down" and come back more powerful than.... you get the point, but a 5x playfield multiplyer upon ball being returned would just feel star wars and be cool. Would have also been cool to see the Hyperspace loop hold balls behind the backboard and have a really tense trench run mode, and that final shot/scene requires you to hit the lockbar action button to fire a locked ball around the loop and into the death star in sequence with the scene played from the movie and have the Death Star blow up in another mode.

Oh well wishlist rant over

This paragraph says it all, and is the reason so many people are getting down on SW. It's all about expectations, and everybody had this incredible picture in their mind that Stern didn't--and couldn't possibly--match. I am NOT saying they didn't cheapen out on the BOM, nor am I making excuses. But with such an iconic theme that has so many die-hard fans, I think it would have been tough to make everybody, or even most people, happy no matter what.

Gotto disagree Boob, I mostly used examples from existing Sterns and an existing pin WOZ, so these things can and have been done. And the other things like the Darth/Obi confrontation and Attack run, could be as simple as software.

Look at some of Sterns older games with iconic themes, its not always how complex the playfield is but how its all integrated take possibly SR best Stern. SM - like TRON and IM there isn't actually a lot on the playfield but the way its executed and interacts with the ball is magic. 3 bank and VUK with Sandman, the Magnet and VUK with Doc Ock - they also both lower and rise in different modes give them a 2 - 3 stage feel to them, even green goblin is a better "toy" than the Tie Fighter, plus there lighting and sounds and theme integration are great.

Using your example of POTC, you have, is it 4 stages of the ship or 3? bash the ship, drop the sails, sink the ship, then fight the kranken.

Its all stuff that just sucks you into the theme, I think most where expecting an immersive SW pin, loaded with references and iconic scenes from the original trilogy.

I think we agree more than you think we do. I said I make no excuses for the BOM - but I'm not sure people would have been happy no matter what was in the game.

I have to say, I LOVE the use of the music and all the movie clips in the game. It actually does suck me into the game. I don't even notice the missing toys (on the pro, anyway...that's the only one I played).

Yeah sorry man should have said agree/disagree - agree they cut the BOM or sure as sh*t it appears that way, disagree that Stern couldn't have put out a game that pleased more people. Stern have made some awesome games some very recent so they can do it, I mean TWD is packed with mechs, MET prem is pretty loaded, STLE is the go to comparison for a Stern LE you could see from space

And if I still missed the mark a little, apolgies its 3am here and I haven't slept in 2 days, insomnia is acting up this week

I think you hit part of the nail on the head. So much that could have been done.

* Han in Carbonite - A target could have been lit up during parts of the game that if you hit the target (think TOTAN magnet) grabs your ball, displays Han being frozen, and pulls it into the play field and you actually lose the ball (-1 think Galaga). Later in the game as you progress you can save Han and get the ball back.

*Love your idea on dead flippers as Obi Wan.

* Imperial Walker raising up out of play field to bash while all lights turn white/blue for Hoth mode.

* Magnet like Dracula to move the ball across play field jedi training mode.

* Magnet like Addams Family under play field when multi ball battle with Dark Vader (Return of the Jedi final battle, using the force to throw things)

* Light saber duel (side rails illuminate in mode - think ST) where you need to hit specific left/right ramp to strike opponent and cause damage (ramps light up)

* Slave Lea mode - just because you can! That's why you have a color LCD - for slave lea mode! Hit left button, right button, right button, etc to enter mode. It must have a Slave Lea mode. Childhood fantasy in color LCD!

The king of flow and speed wanted to create a SW pin in his own mind's eye.

Borg would have been so much better on SW, a packed Trudeau pin like GB would have worked as well.

Still could end up being really great for what it is though.

I like this except inside the rails not outside.

I think a light show saber duel with the flippers could work as well.

Did he though? That comment he made about Gary, and the early CADs of SW showed, playfield magnet/s and what looks like something different where the 3 stand ups are? Its why I would love to see Steves various incarnations of the playfield and how/why he changed/refined things to the released pin we have now.

Its a shame these parts of pinball are kept secret they would certainly be interesting in the eye of the community. Its one of the great things about following home brews like TNA and Archer getting to see them evolve and get refined.

Even if SW did just have the drop down target bank and spinning disc replacing the stationary drop bank and pops under the LCD (like Tron) it would be a satisfying and randomizing shot. That could be the Death Star shot that you battle.

Anyway, is what it is. Have to say the art and lighting are much better in action than they looked originally.

I think the hyper loop and Deathstar dominated the layout to the exclusion of everything else.

A moving target bank like on SM wouldn't have excited me either.

I still think its cool and Boobs will love it BUT its what we all discussed, the "what ifs".

It is what it is. I think this is a great pinball. Unfortunately for Star Wars, it is put on such a high pedestal, people will always want more, and lament at how much better it could've been...4 previous "what-ifs" to prove my point. If Stern supports the code, it could elevate this pin. The other major part of this is the mods. I have complete confidence in the ingenuity of the people creating mods for this pin to put it over the top...some hate mods (even a forum to get rid of them), but the right mods really enhance the experience...something you don't get when playing a game on route.

...and the War Machine kickback. Steve tried the kickback in ST and GOT, and for
whatever reason, doesn't work as well as well as it does in IM.

IM was made when Pinball was slowing down and Stern was short on money, if I recall correctly. Same with Avatar. Those playfields were sparse because of the time they were produced. In this current time, Pinball is at an all time high, prices have soared and one would think profits are much higher (more machines being sold, less on playfield=more profit, $500 plastic toppers, etc.), and technology has advanced.. that's why I think SW should/could have been a Killer offering.

The kickback on GoT pro is a great shot and important when trying to complete targaryan modes and wall supers. The fact that its also the mystery shot and EB shot makes it that much more important.

absolutely this. The position Stern is in these days. We should not be seeing econo pins anymore out of them. Everyone they produce is a step backwards for stern. And they were doing so good, then started going minimalist again with GOT and SW.