Those who think SW NIB Pro with LCD's delivered for $5400 is a bad value may want to double think that nice, but not that nice 25 year pld routed DE SW for $3500 5 hours away.

This is only a couple of hours of observation at my local barcade and I assume the new SW gets more play overall. But, they have the DE SW and the Stern SW with one other machine between them. Over the couple of hours I was there last time, the DE SW appeared to be getting more plays. In fact, SW seemed to be one of the least played games there. Again, only a couple of hours of casual observation, but there might be something to what CaptainNeo is saying.

My girlfriend loves DE SW and hated the new Stern one.

I know the similarities were mentioned before. I think the Spider-Man version looks more appealing.

IMG_2380 (resized).JPG

I was thinking the same thing but afraid to type it in fear of backlash. Worth the bump, well put.

I watched Jack Danger playing SW Pro at Comicon streaming live (I really wanted to see SW in action). Jack, who I would consider a advanced player, had no clue what he was shooting for. He asked during the stream to viewers, does anyone know what I should be shooting for? I think Dwight was standing by him and tried to point out a few things. I actually posted a comment on the live stream "If you don't know what to shoot for how the hell will an average player like myself", to which Jack commented "That's why I'm doing this, to help figure it out for you guys". Doh

I get Jack is in Sterns back pocket - it's his chosen profession. All good. But a game shouldn't be that complicated to figure out for the casual or average player. Deep code is good for pin enthusiasts and home collectors, but you need to balance it off. Stern is missing this point.

ill wait a few months and trade my space shuttle and some cash on their end!

Well here in cincinnati I know for a fact that Stern SW crushes DESW. DESW did terrible and Stern SW is earning more than any other game has at this location. GB, GOT, MMR, ST, KISS have all been there or are there.

This just isn't accurate at all. There are multiple screens telling you what to shoot in Star Wars and lit inserts. At the start of the game if you haven't got any modes ready, you hit a shot and the BIG SCREEN tells you how many more shots to start the mode. Start a mode and there are detailed instructions on what do do in the mode. Then in the mode there is more info on the screen summarizing what you need to do. And the shots are color coded and lit. And there are detailed screens of info in the instant info. Like, what more is Stern supposed to do for you? Make she shots for you?

Walk up to almost ANY other pin. What games possibly do more to walk you through the game? Even simple rule games like Tron and IM don't spell it out any better. Its pinball. Hit the flashing shots.

I dunno, the biggest problem I had when playing this was that I kept finding myself thinking, wait, am I still in a mode? That's still happening? It makes the modes feel unimportant and samey.

No, it's a confusing mess. Watching people play, almost nobody knows about the multipliers without being told, nobody understands what's lit for what (shots have crap stacked up on them 3-4 things deep), and there's inadequate indication for all sorts of other stuff.

Without being told, who could figure out how to add a ball in multiball? Who would know what the thumping sounds meant? There are lots of things that are either not well conveyed or are outright confusing.

It says it all on the screen.

By this logic, ACDC is way more than outright confusing as nothing is spelled out for you on the playfield or DMD. I guess its worse than a confusing mess. It must be the worst code ever.

GoT is not that confusing to play if you put 10-20 games on it. If you are really that confused on how to play GoT then i'm not shocked you don't like SW.

Some people don't need to be told exactly what to shoot at. ACDC is far from confusing to play. Shot the shot that activates the songs scoring & then shoot the flashing lights. Is that really that hard to comprehend???

I found Star Wars confusing. I don't recall a single call out. Everytime I looked up it was a cockpit view with a tie fighter on the left or it telling me to hurry up. Then the mystery is the complete opposite please just sit there and do nothing and look at this very uninspired graphic. I'm sure it makes sense with a few plays but I gave up and moved in after 6-8 bucks. I then played Dialed In it has clear concise call outs telling you exactly what you need to do.

P.S. AC/DC the lights and sound make it super easy. Star Wars is not like that at all.

Did you jump ship on the DI thread now that multiple people have had issues with their superior build quality games? Or are you refusing to play yours till they make you a scoop protector?? lol

What?

Amp-suit Jackpot!

Thanks for waiting to play the game before voicing an opinion! I went into this game not expecting to love it (the theme is neutral for me) and after 2 plays was hooked. I think it really comes down to if you like Steve Ritchie games or not. I think the game feels fantastic to play. I also like how the mini LCD allows for multiple functions for the standups. I also like the fact that I don't always know exactly what I should be doing right out of the gate, I think it's rewarding to gradually build up a mastery of the game.

I respect your opinion, but it's an accurate statement. Watch the Jack Danger video if it's still up. He was trying to figure out how in the hell do you start certain modes listed on the playfield. Some things were lit up to shoot at, sure, but he was trying to advance the game and was struggling how to activate and what to shoot for. So was everyone else on the the stream. So I wasn't alone in this observation.

It's ok to call me stupid, but I agree with Rarehero on this one. I've played GOT more than 20 times and have a friend who owns one walk me through. I still can't walk up to it on my own and understand the damn thing. Yup, I'm stupid I guess. That's a game I REALLY wanted to like. Sadly, just don't get it.

Respectfully disagree. I own an AC/DC and for the average player it lights up and calls out shots very specifically. Easy to understand, start a song, song has specific shots lit up, etc. Now, I still don't know backstage pass and all the advanced goodies in the code Lyman programmed. But you know what? That's ok. It's a beautiful blend of code that works for someone just walking up to it and for the advanced players that know more and can go very deep. Maybe SW will gain that balance in code over time. I'm rooting for it to.

No ship jumping. I'm still playing it. Installed Mylar and having a blast. Sorry you are still trying to convince yourself SW is a great pin. Very sad.

I said, "it's a confusing mess."

Only if it becomes cheaper than the Data East version...

I wasn't meaning AC/DC is that hard to understand. Merely comparing that games with deep rules don't always spell out exactly what to do.

I've owned an AC/DC premium since I bought it new in box. It's not confusing to play, but there's no way most people will understand its full depth. It's a great game, but deeper than most people will ever know. That's the biggest knock on it.

Star Wars has way higher barriers to entry, and it's not actually that deep. It's just running stacks of stuff all piled up at once. It's almost impossible for an average player to keep track of.

I appreciate your response. We can agree to disagree I guess. I really don't find SW hard to get what to shoot for. Seems quite intuitive. And the display gives a lot of advice.

If I remember correctly there is one part where Jack didn't know what to hit. I think it's the mode where there are not coloured lit shots. You have to hit either the tie fighter stand ups which are lit or the force targets. For these two parts of those modes I agree it's not clear what to shoot for.

At the end of the day, not all games are for everyone. I can respect that.

Appreciate your response as well. Good points. I'm still hopeful SW code will evolve and become AC/DC-ish. But for those who love it now, I'm happy for them. It's all about enjoying the game.

I call BS on NIB Met Pros being $4300 2 years ago. More like high $4000s. Then $5000 last year. Then $5100 this year. At this point I think they're sold out.

Got mine nib 2 years ago for 4500 .....

4600 shipped for me, so I guess 4400 actual.

Oh I wanted to make sure you had a chance to pull ur head out of ur ass, but its clear now and seems either way the same stupid comment. Thanks

What is your actual problem?

When people talk while they have their head in their ass, other than that no problem.

Why don't you twits take this conversation to PM, I read these forums to get an insight about games, not to see this crap. No wonder the vibe of this place is sinking

now thats a bit strong.

I agree, its just stupid comments really bother me.

You spelled "twats" wrong.

He's militant. He can't help himself. Someone gives an opinion with actual reasoning and he's still going to go off on them. He does it all the time. Yelling at him doesn't help.

Did the LE code have any differences beyond what the loop demanded? It didn't have any of the modes added that are still absent from the pro, right?

Hey guys, less talk of twits, twats, and heads up asses please. Stop insulting each other, I really don't want to moderate three or four good Pinsiders for name calling... Thanks.

Sorry, buddy. I wasn't calling anybody a name. Just correcting a spelling error.

I'll crawl back under my rock now.

Years ago this thread was created with a lot of people not keen on game play, art, flow etc

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/just-played-tron-today

Now I think most people would agree tron is one of the best sterns around in a long time. To each their own. Personally I am really pumped about my premium sw and regret not pulling the trigger on tron le when I had the chance. Subsequently I have a heavily modded pro and love it.

Sure less toys on this but I really love the art on the premium and love the hyper space loop. I think owners of le and premium will be very pleased. Stern is obviously giving this code a lot of attention.

Rock on.

Mittens

This, exactly. Tron has, like, NO toys on it. The only "toy" is a spinning disc behind a motorized target bank. And that game is the absolute shit (was playing it with my daughter tonight and said it would never leave). People have modded the hell out of that game (like mine is) to make it prettier. But it's still a great playing game even without the toys.

I don't know why we've reached a point where toys equals value in pinball. It's like everybody has turned into @panzerfreak--a great dude who took a lot of shit for always talking about toys. But now everybody is talking like him. Not every game has to be DI or WOZ to be great. Some, like AFM or Tron, are great simply in their concept and playfield design.

I still think SW is a lot of fun in the short time I played it, and I look forward to my LE.

Toys or no toys really isn't important if the code is consistent. Tron works well because the code supports that layout and it all makes a lot of sense. They're a perfect match for each other. Same for AFM. Where people feel the lack of toys on Star Wars comes from how many things they stuffed into the code that are laid out on a very basic and very fast layout. It causes everything to feel very much the same from mode to mode and game to game.

I finally got my chance to play SW tonight. The game is pretty fun so I'm not going to give it a negative review, but I'd be a liar if I didn't say I was a little underwhelmed. The shots feel good, light show and sound is good but I just think the game could have been much nicer with some more playfield toys and stuff. It just seemed so bare. Of course I didn't have a clue what I was doing because it is a little confusing so maybe more time on it would help. The playfield didn't have any ghosting that I saw but the dimpling was pretty bad.....kinda like my TWD, GOT, and GB, and far worse than my AS.

I don't know......yeah I had fun playing it but it felt kind of cheap or something to me. I just felt like it needed more. As of right now I'd give it a "C" I guess. I didn't leave there feeling like I need to start saving my money for one or anything like that. If Elvira isn't more well thought out than SW, I'm going to be badly disappointed. I don't know what to say really other than.......meh.

P.S. AS is definitely a better game than SW is!

LOL

No toys...but then you immediately list out TWO ball-interactive toys on it. That was fantastic.

I agree that a game doesn't have to have toys to be fun, but I at least want to feel that I'm getting my monies worth physically. It's more principle than anything.

I finally got to play a SW Pro today and I hate to repeat what everyone else is saying, but wow this game is underwhelming. A "tie Fighter on a springy stick"? Really? Is this the best we can do in 2017 for a toy? LMAO! Just seems amazingly ridiculous. This title deserved the kitchen sink thrown at it.

Solidified my order of DI and with the last couple of Stern releases, I will be keeping my Hobbit- it has quality, toys, and killer code. Bought it used for $6900 and now it seems like a smoking deal.

Can't wait for the next JJP release also, they seem to be raising the bar while stern lowers it!

Not really. I like/love lots of Steve Ritchie games. BK2K, Getaway, STTNG, AC/DC, Spider-Man, Rollergames, F-14...heck, I even like Elvis!

Steve Ritchie fandom has little bearing on what one may think of this game.

HaHa
of course
I still believe Steve Ritchie is the king
Steve did a really nice job with Star Wars

I got a bad feeling we got ripped off with features by the bean counters

Man that force magnet under the PF should have been a given !

Perhaps an aftermarket add on ?

Because I'd hardly define a spinning disc or motorized target bank as a "toy." When you ask somebody to name toys on POTC, the ship is the first thing to come to mind, the treasure chest is the second. The spinning disc would be a distant third. I guess my definition of a toy is something that's molded to fit the theme and interacts with the player. I don't consider the spinning discs on Whirlwind to be toys.

That spinning disk is what made CSI skyrocket to 202 on the top 100 list.