(Topic ID: 194752)

Star Wars - A negative review

By Hawkeyepin

6 years ago


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#201 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

He's being a judgey snob - he's basically saying people here don't play games, they just spend money on them, look at them, mod them, but know nothing about gameplay.
He's basically become a sychophant: "If it's pinball, it's good". It's possible to be a "player" and think this (or any) game sucks. It's possible to be a player and not enjoy it for any variety of reasons. We all look for something different in a game that defines whether it's fun to us. If you like SW, cool. If you don't, that doesn't mean Levi gets to dictate how you're defined within the world
of pinball.

But I thought he led all the Egyptians to the playfield and parted the return and outlanes

-1
#202 6 years ago
Or arrogant troll.

A judgey arrogant snob troll. There take that "player".

#203 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

He's basically become a sychophant: "If it's pinball, it's good". It's possible to be a "player" and think this (or any) game sucks. It's possible to be a player and not enjoy it for any variety of reasons. We all look for something different in a game that defines whether it's fun to us. If you like SW, cool. If you don't, that doesn't mean Levi gets to dictate how you're defined within the world of pinball.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion of SW for sure. And I don't automatically value the opinion of a nationals-level player over all others because hey, I'm not a nationals-level player either (though I respect that he knows and plays pinball far better than I do and is likely to have some interesting insights on the game).

But Levi's not a "sycophant" - that implies he's kissing up to Stern (and/or JJP since he also likes DI?) with the expectation of some future payoff, which I doubt is what you really meant.

Also, Levi clearly doesn't love all pinball, see his popular SFII thread for one example.

#204 6 years ago

Maybe he's just a know-it-all like a lot of people here. What I mean by that is that a lot of people here tie their identity to an opinion. The reason being is probably because what we say here is in type. Unless you go back and delete old posts, everything we say is recorded. So if I say I don't like Star Wars (which I've played a few times and it hasn't "grabbed" me yet), then I have to stick with that opinion or risk being called out. I think a lot of people here feel like someone disagreeing with them here is like a personal attack because they've tied their opinion to their identity. I think most of that has to do with the fact that money is tied to those opinions I.E. did I spend more on this pin than I can get back? I hated TWD, and if I kept spouting how I hated it and talking about it sucked and was a waste of money like I thought it was, I'd look like an ass when I came back here after I ended up really liking it.

It's the same conversation y'all have after every new game comes out trying to inflate or devalue a new pin.

#205 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

If you like SW, cool. If you don't, that doesn't mean Levi gets to dictate how you're defined within the world of pinball.

YEAH! I mean unless it's you and GB then it's OK...cause ya know that's kind of "a thing."

EDIT: True thing though

#206 6 years ago

I mean, I've spent the entire pre-release cycle of this pin hating it and having a publicly negative opinion, and then I played it and enjoyed it. It's okay to have your opinion be changed by new information.

#207 6 years ago

See, this is exactly what I mean. Apparently this dude had an opinion on Ghostbusters, which differed than his opinion now, and he was called out on it.

This is what makes opinions an identity.

#208 6 years ago
Quoted from trunchbull:

I mean, I've spent the entire pre-release cycle of this pin hating it and having a publicly negative opinion, and then I played it and enjoyed it.

What would you like us to call you? Traitor, liar, Turncoat?!!?

#209 6 years ago
Quoted from trunchbull:

I mean, I've spent the entire pre-release cycle of this pin hating it and having a publicly negative opinion, and then I played it and enjoyed it. It's okay to have your opinion be changed by new information.

I agree, but that's the thing about having a "publicly negative opinion." I don't know what you mean by that exactly but a lot of times it turns into such a know-it-all negative opinion with a lot of folks that that is what fuels a majority of arguments here.

#210 6 years ago

A lot of it comes down to Stern sucking at advertising its own games (let's face it, a significant portion of their market lead comes from having a default monopoly for over a decade) and also having a really negative track record of late. I had almost no faith in Star Wars after the Batman 66 fiasco, which I still think is an absolute bomb of a game, and my general dislike of Steve Ritchie pins, but I really like being pleasantly surprised and was glad to be. The bigger problem comes if you're so stubborn in your prejudgement that you let it color your actual experience when the time comes. Being open to change, even if Pinside is relentlessly nonsensical, is important.

Quoted from TheLaw:

What would you like us to call you? Traitor, liar, Turncoat?!!?

na na na na na na na na waffleman!!

#211 6 years ago

God what advertising?

#212 6 years ago

Haha exactly. I mean, their position with regards to customers is basically neutral-to-antagonistic at this point.

edit: now that there's competition in such a small field, good customer relations is essential. It's not even difficult, they're just not doing it. That's what's really shocking.

#213 6 years ago

I think a lot of the extreme negative is from people who had pre-ordered for their own collection, then have pulled out. Playing with a deposit down on a $9000 Le makes you more critical because its a lot of money and you're thinking long term in a home environment. Also makes you more critical of value (is it striped back/am I getting my $ worth) and quality (what happens if it ghosts). If you were just playing on site you'd be less critical. Curious if "Players" like CrazyLevi have a game on order for their home collection or just for route?

#214 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

He's being a judgey snob - he's basically saying people here don't play games, they just spend money on them, look at them, mod them, but know nothing about gameplay.
He's basically become a sychophant: "If it's pinball, it's good". It's possible to be a "player" and think this (or any) game sucks. It's possible to be a player and not enjoy it for any variety of reasons. We all look for something different in a game that defines whether it's fun to us. If you like SW, cool. If you don't, that doesn't mean Levi gets to dictate how you're defined within the world
of pinball.

Personal attacks, from Rarehero? Well, I did say you are an emotional guy.

As far as how I judge folks, I NEVER say people can't like pinball for different reasons than I do. You completely missed my point. I've stated many, many times that the hobby takes all kinds and people are free to get out of it what they want.

But if someone spends their entire review not on gameplay, but everything else, I really don't consider them to have the same interest in pinball machines as I do. And most of the reviews I see here are like that.

I wouldn't expect people who are more interested in mods, LEs, and "innovation" to care much about my reviews, which are mostly about gameplay (see my Dialed in Review for instance).

Quoted from cooked71:

Curious if "Players" like crazylevi have a game on order for their home collection or just for route?

Never bought a NIB pinball machine in my life and I don't plan on starting anytime soon. The cost of new games is completely irrelevant when I form an opinion on one.

-4
#215 6 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

Personal attacks, from Rarehero? Well, I did say you are an emotional guy.

Dealing in facts here. Emotions are irrelevant to this discussion.

15
#216 6 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

The cost of new games is completely irrelevant when I form an opinion on one.

I could write 2 reviews on Star Wars:

Review 1: Is this game worth $9000 for many years play in my home. Is it worth $9k compared to other games I could buy.
Review 2: Is this game worth $5 to play for a night. If I get bored, I can put $5 in another game and never look at Star Wars again.

The 2 reviews will be completely different, and considerations like gameplay, cost, value, toys, art, longevity will have different relevance.

Likewise your opinions that ghosting "looks cool". Playing a game on location that has ghosting - who gives a sh*t. My own $9k game has ghosting, doesn't look so cool.

#217 6 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Magnets cost money.
Anyway loved TOTAN magnet trick (borrowed for Metallica).
My early recollections of pinball were in the 70's once I'm rediscovered pinball in the 90's was in love with TZ, TAF etc.. magnets.

Magnets are awesome. In life and pinball.

13
#218 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Dealing in facts here. Emotions are irrelevant to this discussion.

"judgy snob" is not a fact, it's a value judgement, and a pretty emotionally reactive and insulting one from a guy who only hours ago bemoaned perceived "personal attacks." But I'm not as sensitive as some folks so I'll let it slide.

I don't really see anybody getting offended in this thread - nobody actually seems to CARE if they are labeled as "players" or not; seems to me most people here are actually pretty self-aware of what kind of collector they are.

The venn diagram intersection for folks who prioritize undercab lighting and also can execute a perfect live catch has got to be pretty small. And, the complaints about how "dull" Star Wars might be all seem to stem from the fact that there isn't some kind of giant mechanical Rancor that pops out of the playfield and eats pinballs while simultaneously activating 4 playfield magnets (OK - I admit that would be pretty cool), rather than the actual shots, speed, and flow of the game.

I've maintained all along - from my first sneak preview two months ago in the UK - that people whose main attraction to pinball is gameplay are going to enjoy Star Wars. It's super fast and has the best flow yet of any Stern I've played. And I'm not without criticism - As I've played it more I've come to think the software needs some work - it's crazy imbalanced right now and there's too much emphasis on the multiplier and moving it around. The "meta game" is becoming more important than the real game and that's not a trend I want to see continue.

But there's nothing wrong with that playfield. Maybe once the mods start rolling out of the 3D printers and provide people with options for dressing up these playfields a bit, the game will start looking more attractive to everybody.

#219 6 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

I could write 2 reviews on Star Wars:
Review 1: Is this game worth $9000 for many years play in my home. Is it worth $9k compared to other games I could buy.
Review 2: Is this game worth $5 to play for a night. If I get bored, I can put $5 in another game and never look at Star Wars again.

The "value" discussion is a complete distraction for me. At around $5,200, Star Wars is STILL the best NIB value as far as I can tell. I love Dialed In but it's $9000 or so - admittedly I'm not an NIB buyer but at that point "value" can't possibly even be part of the discussion. Regardless, it's all irrelevant to me; really we should be reviewing these games for what they are. I can compare Doodle Bug to Magic Girl and cost doesn't have to be part of that discussion in any way. (hint: Doodle Bug is better).

#221 6 years ago

Once it gets up in to the used Subaru range I simply lose track.

#222 6 years ago

Uff my Damn fine Subie onky went for 7!

#223 6 years ago
Quoted from Guinnesstime:

I'd love to know who the 20 are

well, not sure if you're playing in tournament/ranked at IFPA, but you get some nice scores
than dont be sarcastic (lol inside of course) as may be you're 1 of them

11
#224 6 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

The "value" discussion is a complete distraction for me. At around $5,200, Star Wars is STILL the best NIB value as far as I can tell. I love Dialed In but it's $9000 or so - admittedly I'm not an NIB buyer but at that point "value" can't possibly even be part of the discussion.

Your points are well taken, but we all play pinball. Some better than others. Whether there are a select few that mod their games and never, ever, ever touch them or play them...I'm sure there are. That is not most of us. Some of us love to play, are pretty damn good at it, but we also like to powder coat and mod our games a little.

That being said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to have nice, attractive games in a home collection, modded or not.

Do I want an attractive game with great art and fabulous light shows that I hate the gameplay on? No, I don't.

Do I want a game with fabulous gameplay and fun as hell, but I absolutely hate the artwork and the game is just ugly? No, I don't...not in my home collection for a prolonged period of time.

Would I play that game on location or at somebody else's house? Certainly.

When people are spending $5k - $10k, they can certainly be picky or critical about gameplay, artwork, mods, playfield layout...anything they want that has to do with pinball. It simply doesn't mean you have to agree with them, and it certainly doesn't mean because somebody is discussing artwork or mods that they have absolutely no idea how to play pinball or are some kind of "novice".

My simple point remains this, and I think the majority of people could agree. SW is a cool pin. Is it what I expected...no.

Is it what it could have been with endless possibilities with 40 years of hardcore fandom history? No.

Could it have been better? Yes.

Is it good the way it is? Yes, it's good. To me, it's just not awesome, and I wanted it to be.

#225 6 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

...I've maintained all along that people whose main attraction to pinball is gameplay are going to enjoy Star Wars....

surelly

you're a top player, than i can understand what you wanna say
i'm a good player, may be i have more mixity in my judgement from the pure gameplay on a side, and all others aspects on the other side

than dont be so hard with guys setting gameplay at the end of their priority, as we all enjoy pinball for differents reasons, and that's also why pinball is so nice to share and to discuss

i have still not played the game, and for now i'm disappointed
but may be this will change...

#227 6 years ago
Quoted from NickBuffaloPinball:

Here's a review we did Monday:
» YouTube video

Big fan of the show. I agree with the sentiment that if a manufacturer releases it before the code is complete then it's fair game. But, I also think that it's only fair to the coder and designer to revisit it once the code hits 1.0+. Will you guys come back to SW, B66, Kiss, etc., when/if they are ever completed?

#228 6 years ago

I'm a "playah". Does that count for anything?

#229 6 years ago
Quoted from Rasavage:

Big fan of the show. I agree with the sentiment that if a manufacturer releases it before the code is complete then it's fair game. But, I also think that it's only fair to the coder and designer to revisit it once the code hits 1.0+. Will you guys come back to SW, B66, Kiss, etc., when/if they are ever completed?

replying for KISS, a big YES ! as in this case really thinking of getting one
but for now, sry, no...

#230 6 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

The venn diagram intersection for folks who prioritize undercab lighting and also can execute a perfect live catch has got to be pretty small

Here's an example of your judginess. You're defining "player" and the validity of their opinion based on how well they do tricks by tournament standards. That's not now everyone plays pinball...if you play pinball, in any way, you're a player. Don't disparage people who don't flip the way you do.

Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I've maintained all along - from my first sneak preview two months ago in the UK - that people whose main attraction to pinball is gameplay are going to enjoy Star Wars. It's super fast and has the best flow yet of any Stern I've played.

Flow and speed don't define gameplay.

I'm a PLAYER. I play and love many fast, speedy flowy games....but speed and flow doesn't exist independently of the other aspects of a game. There are a ton of factors on top of that that will leave an impression and cause people to find the game fun/good or not fun/good.

For me and others, ultimate speed/flow doesn't make sense with math-chess rules. I didn't like it on GOT, and I don't like it here. When I play GOT, I just turn my brain off and flow flow flow flow until I get to Winter Is Coming and Hand Of The King...not sure what I did or how I got there, but I just kept flowin' till it happened. 25 min later I put my high score up and walk away thinking "meh". As a "PLAYER" I find it boring and a GOT theme fan I find it disappointing.

For Star Wars fans, theme integration is important. The theme has been done a ton of times before, it's 2017, they expected something really creative and didn't get it. For those who have these opinions of the game, that doesn't make them "not players".

#231 6 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You are a dinasour Neo. Your $6k max has left the station. Expect Stern pro
Need to figure out who is on code first though

I don't need to know who does the code. Everyone has good games. Just like designers. There are more than 1 or 2 designers, and most have a good game or two under their belt. I don't care who coded it, or who designed it, as long as I like the end result.

#232 6 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

At around $5,200, Star Wars is STILL the best NIB value as far as I can tell.

Crazy amount of NIB games available right now.

SW
AS
BM66
GB
SMVE
GOT
KISS
WNBJM
WWE
TWD
MET
WOZ
TH
DI
MMr
AFMr
Dominos
Jetsons
RZ
TNA
P3
Houdini
Full Throttle?
Alien?
TBL?

and coming soon
New Stern
Spooky
JJP
CGC

#233 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I'm a PLAYER.

When I play GOT, I just turn my brain off and flow flow flow flow until I get to Winter Is Coming and Hand Of The King...not sure what I did or how I got there, but I just kept flowin' till it happened.

Good lord

Quoted from trunchbull:

Haha exactly. I mean, their position with regards to customers is basically neutral-to-antagonistic at this point.

Want to get excited to buy a game? Go check the picture section at Stern...friikkin low ass quality 300x300 pixel pictures no zoom wtf? That's the kind of shit that's just pathetic.

#234 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

When I play GOT, I just turn my brain off and flow flow flow flow until I get to Winter Is Coming and Hand Of The King...not sure what I did or how I got there, but I just kept flowin' till it happened. 25 min later I put my high score up and walk away thinking "meh".

If that's all the strategy you're using, you wouldn't be able to put up a high score if any actual 'players' had played the game.

-2
#235 6 years ago

No surprise there the game looks like your typical crank it out Stern groul! lol

05e95a27-aefe-44ed-b8ce-3b3f84ae0f96.jpg.jpg05e95a27-aefe-44ed-b8ce-3b3f84ae0f96.jpg.jpg

#236 6 years ago
Quoted from Rasavage:

Big fan of the show. I agree with the sentiment that if a manufacturer releases it before the code is complete then it's fair game. But, I also think that it's only fair to the coder and designer to revisit it once the code hits 1.0+. Will you guys come back to SW, B66, Kiss, etc., when/if they are ever completed?

We're happy to come back at some point if/when the code is "finished" and provide an update.

#237 6 years ago
Quoted from ectobar:

If that's all the strategy you're using, you wouldn't be able to put up a high score if any actual 'players' had played the game.

Oh well, I guess everyone playing it on location isn't a "player" cuz they just flip it instead of learning math-chess!

#238 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Oh well, I guess everyone playing it on location isn't a "player" cuz they just flip it instead of learning math-chess!

You'd be amazed how long points have been involved in pinball.

11
#239 6 years ago

I actually know where Levi is coming with on the whole "player" vs. "Pinsider" thing. Some people really don't give a rip about the dressing on a pinball machine if the thing doesn't play well first and foremost. That's how I feel. However, I do appreciate when a game looks nice, and I think with an industry this old, and with a long history of great art, it's fine to expect some effort be put into those things.

But if you're going to review a game, and it's not gameplay that most concerns you in your praises and critiques, then yeah, the review isn't of much worth to people who would be considered players. Many "Pinsiders" may appreciate the heavy-handed critiques on art and toys, but the "player" probably won't put a lot of stock in them.

Anyway, here's what I said about the game in the other Star Wars thread. I'm not super positive on it right now either...

-----

Ok, it's not ALL bad with Star Wars, but I don't like the sum of its parts when it comes right down to it. I just wanted so much more from the Star Wars theme than we got here. It feels like they cranked the speed up to distract you from the fact that it's a pretty bare game.

The playfield shots are smooth as silk, and shots, when made, just feel right. The geometry of a game is something that Steve Ritchie just seems to understand better than most anybody. Some shots are tight, some are easy, but they all feel pretty much where they should be. It's hard thing to put into words, but you feel it when you play. Compared to something like Aerosmith or Batman '66, Star Wars just has a more refined feel to its geometry.

The sounds on the game are pretty cool. That spinner sound is the best since Metallica. Lots of neat little sounds are found throughout the game. Stern usually does a pretty solid job on sound packages, and Star Wars is definitely no exception.

I'm really not digging the code on the game. Bugs aside (and holy jeez there are plenty), it is totally the wrong type of game progression for how fast it plays. Shots get back to the flipper so quickly, that it's hard to keep up with what you're doing in the game. It's a bummer, because while the game has TONS of modes, they all end up feeling so samey because the ball is just flying around and you're fighting to keep control. Game of Thrones is also very fast, but the modes feel better differentiated, and it doesn't feel like a constant race against ticking timers. Star Wars gets in your face with too many hurry ups, too many timers, and too many dang layers of things going on. And you better like multiballs, because they are to be had at every turn.

Then you have the action button. It's way overused, and there's nothing fun about having to constantly babysit that thing. You have to use it to unlock, move, and lock in your multipliers, you have to blow up TIE fighters with it, you need to hold it down to add a ball in multiball, and you have to unlock and move your multipliers again. Don't forget to lock them or else you'll make your shots but they'll be worth, literally, a 40th of what they could. The game barely gives you a chance to breathe, but you're expected to keep up with slapping that action button so often? That was not even close to fun.

There are also some real head scratchers with Star Wars. Why do they even have pop bumpers in this thing? The ball rarely goes in there, and when it does, it's completely hidden from view. You can't see the pop action at all, because the mini LCD screen blocks it. They feel like they're in there simply because "a game should have pop bumpers." The mini LCD is nothing special either. It helps you on the "skill" shot, and then it's used fairly sparingly from there. You barely have time to check it for indicators anyway, because the ball is always at top speed. The kind-of-a-scoop is a bummer. I've played on 7 different machines now, and all of them had reject issues. Stern could have spent an extra buck and put a proper scoop in there. The eject from that shot is wild too. Blah.

The plunge on this game is terrible. By ball 2 of your first game, you already know the exact timing to get the max skill shot reward, but it sends the ball into an out-of-control state in the lower half of the playfield. Not a fun way to start a ball. Less fun when the ball saver just throws the ball back into chaos again. I would prefer the option to short plunge for the stand ups or to full plunge to the pops. Make it so you can risk chaos for a multiplier or play safe if you want to. But no, Star Wars never takes its foot off the pedal.
The game is always teetering on the edge of control. That can be fun in bursts, but to always have every shot leading to a blazing fast return is just too much. All the stand ups cause a lot of airballs. Bad ones. I think the flippers are overpowered here. It's just one speed to experience: maximum. The Star Wars films aren't some adrenaline-fueled spaz fest. They are very measured in how they dole out action, and the speed of the game just doesn't feel like a good match to the franchise at all.

And that's really my biggest disappointment here. It doesn't feel like Star Wars at all. It looks like Star Wars, but once you start playing, it just melts away. Stacking up Hoth and Tatooine stuff seems so strange. It's like an extreme over reaction to people not liking the Ghostbusters ladder system, so they just let you throw everything in a blender. Makes for a weird use of the theme.

The game is still very much in development, so things can evolve on the code front quite a bit, but I doubt it's going to dramatically change how the game feels to play. It's always going to be too fast for all the layers it's trying to put into the experience. Once the rush of the game's speed wears off, it just feels overwhelming. It's really hard to parse out why a shot scored the way it did, because some shots will have so many things stacked on them beyond what the game can adequately indicate.

I have a feeling that this game will have a hot moment of popularity and then people will get fatigued by it. Once you start getting dialed into the shots, you start having these insanely long ball times of super fast play. Multiball rolls into multiball, modes sit on top of modes, and it all just blurs into a samey hot mess. Almost all the games you play start feeling so alike. Even Ghostbusters, as linear as it is, has games that feel very different from one another. I can't seem to find out how to do that in Star Wars.

I was cold on Aerosmith out of the gate, but I am liking it more and more these days. I hope Star Wars goes through a similar process for me.

#240 6 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

You'd be amazed how long points have been involved in pinball.

Of course, but with most modern games, points come along naturally with progression. For example, if I'm playing LOTR and I'm playing a mode - I'm trying to complete that mode. I've owned the game for a decade - I can't tell you how many points I get per mode shot...but I know if I complete that mode, the points will come with it, and so will an Elf Gift a which will give me something that's worth even more points. IMO it's more organic for most players to digest mode/event/story/progress logic....and that's how all popular games are, so it's not an outlier. This new type of game that's ALL mathy points logic is new. If you like it, cool - but it's polarizing.

#241 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Of course, but with most modern games, points come along naturally with progression. For example, if I'm playing LOTR and I'm playing a mode - I'm trying to complete that mode. I've owned the game for a decade - I can't tell you how many points I get per mode shot...but I know if I complete that mode, the points will come with it, and so will an Elf Gift a which will give me something that's worth even more points. IMO it's more organic for most players to digest mode/event/story/progress logic....and that's how all popular games are, so it's not an outlier. This new type of game that's ALL mathy points logic is new. If you like it, cool - but it's polarizing.

I can tell you that war of the ents (which I call baked potato toss), gives 500,000 for each direct hit and 750000 for each orbit enter. that's all I know. But I've only owned it since 2007.

#242 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

IMO it's more organic for most players to digest mode/event/story/progress logic....and that's how all popular games are, so it's not an outlier. This new type of game that's ALL mathy points logic is new. If you like it, cool - but it's polarizing.

Well I wonder if we know enough, or the code knows enough, to really know whether it is organic or not (Full Disclosure - I HAVE NOT played this once).

GOT is another 'Math Rock' game, but since I know it well I can see it's...organics? I'm not explaining in depth or trying to make you like it, not every game is for everyone, just explaining how it might make more sense then you'd think.
Anyway, by completing modes, you light the sword shot that awards you a sword...let's call it an Elven gift if that helps This gift allows you to increase the Playfield Multiplier. There you have it, further progression in the game, more progressive points.

Quoted from Rarehero:

This new type of game that's ALL mathy points logic is new.

Some parts are "new" for sure, more like a combination of parts that are old. "Playfield" multipliers, shot multipliers, these are not new ideas I just don't think they've been put together before (although some smart ass will bud in).

#243 6 years ago

My Dad always said it comes down to: "Who would you rather sit down and have a beer with? CrazyLevi or Rarehero.

#244 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I can tell you that war of the ents (which I call baked potato toss), gives 500,000 for each direct hit and 750000 for each orbit enter. that's all I know. But I've only owned it since 2007.

Thumbs up for baked potato toss lmao

#245 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

... (which I call baked potato toss),

Truth

#246 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

baked potato toss

Lol. That's what's missing in pinball today.....

#247 6 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

My Dad always said it comes down to: "Who would you rather sit down and have a beer with? CrazyLevi or Rarehero.

Levi!

#248 6 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Some parts are "new" for sure, more like a combination of parts that are old. "Playfield" multipliers, shot multipliers, these are not new ideas I just don't think they've been put together before (although some smart ass will bud in).

Sure, we've had all that nuance before - but I don't think we've really seen these bare-feature playfields that rely purely on be nuance as a feature since the playfield doesn't have any. Gomez once told me that every game should have a "dummy zone" ...some really cool and satisfying shot that any player can get - so if they don't understand the game, there's at least that one really cool thing. That's a theory that almost every game has had - and that cool dummy zone feature is usually what makes people fond of a game - MM's castle, POTC's ship, LOTR's Balrog and Ring magnet, IM's Monger, etc. SW is lacking that "one cool thing"...so, it's "cool thing" is the strategic rules - but no one walking up to it is gonna get that. It'll be interesting to see how people feel once the Prem/LE come out, since that game will have the "cool thing" on it.

#249 6 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

SW is lacking that "one cool thing"...so, it's "cool thing" is the strategic rules - but no one walking up to it is gonna get that. It'll be interesting to see how people feel once the Prem/LE come out, since that game will have the "cool thing" on it.

I can totally understand that, but what do we care aboot what joe average thinks? I'm just trying to figure out what machine you're raging against. Do you dislike the game because it's a rip off with nothing on the PF? Or because it's based completely on points? That's it's hard for newbs to understand? Or all those things?
It's an instesting point system, and I don't think every game should work the same, so what's wrong with games being diff'rent?
Or again, just a collection of all those mixed up?

Haha i'd get that popcorn ready to see how cool this one thing on the premium is

#250 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I can tell you that war of the ents (which I call baked potato toss), gives 500,000 for each direct hit and 750000 for each orbit enter. that's all I know. But I've only owned it since 2007.

Yeah, but to Hero's point, do you want to finish the mode with any hit possible and get a Gift, or would you rather not finish the mode, but score more points with only orbit shots?

Most people are not going to play for the latter.

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