(Topic ID: 81169)

Star Trek = work. Proposed solution(s) inside

By Eskaybee

10 years ago


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#84 10 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

Since were on the subject of code. Here's some ideas for more blackhole mystery awards:

-Start random mission (only if no mission is running)

I would be pissed if I got that, haha! If there's no Mission running, couldn't I just shoot one of the two mission shots to start the mission I want, rather than waste a BH mystery award on starting a random one that may work against my current Captain's Chair strategy (I.e.: trying to fill two rows at once)? Maybe I'm missing the point on your suggestion?

Not that I have great or worthwhile opinions, but I'll be able to weigh in more on things once my premium arrives (soon!)

But in the 4-5 hours I've logged into ST (pro and LE) my biggest critique mirrors that of RobT and SKB: the modes make you *think* the game is "deep" but it really isn't when you put some thought into it. Not saying that it isn't fun, hell, I wouldn't be going in on a premium if it wasn't, but the modes, save for one or two, have no "personality". They just feel like empty husks with DMD animations, but the fun of the modes come from the flow and trying to keep the combos flowing.

I like the BH Multiball idea. Maybe to save the strain on the eyes, rather than just have the "starfield" being the only illumination, it could also have the spotlights cycle one at a time for 2-3 secs each randomly?

I look forward to taking part in more ST discussion once I get mine in-house. Don't really know if a rule sheet is needed, as everyone seems to know what's going on in the game, but if there's enough demand for it, I might give it the XM treatment and map out the modes and scoring in more detail down the road?

#90 10 years ago
Quoted from brucipher:

I am curious, do we know if Stern/Steve Ritchie ever covertly come on pinside and read this kind of stuff, or is this just falling on deaf ears?

"They" do read this stuff, but cannot post on message boards and engage. Ideas are a dime a dozen, so it's not like everyone's ideas will get implemented or given serious thought; but it might change the thinking on a couple things when they read the feedback. Feedback will always be more valuable to Stern than "ideas". The programmers don't want to be "told" what to do....I know I wouldn't, but I bet they're open to suggestion and feedback.

What I mean is: rather than telling Stern HOW to program the level one missions and what they should consist of in detail, it's much more valueable to just put the point across that they way the level one missions work right now just does not feel right or rewarding, and in fact can feel boring in an otherwise fast game. That way the programmers can get the constructive feedback that they might need to revisit the level one missions and they can come up with a solution that doesn't make them feel boring or "empty". Much easier to get change in that manner than forcing our opinions of how things should be down their throat and be upset if they don't turn out exactly how "we" wanted it to.

Just make a point on the things you'd like to see changed in the code, but don't get too specific or married to your ideas of the changes. Have faith in the programming team, they're a pretty bright bunch.

Having said that, I'm sure I will have my suggestions in the future, but I'm never married to my ideas and am always thankful of what we get in the end.

3 weeks later
#98 10 years ago

Okay, after about 2 weeks of owning my own ST prem, I'm ready to weigh in (not like anyone was waiting for it, Hardeeharhar). I'll do my very best to just keep the critiques/requests vague and constructive, rather than just say, "I think my idea is better, they should do this....." And then tell "them" what to do......although having said that, I'm sure I'll have a couple moments of weakness where I'll get specific

-----NOTE: this is all my opinion; pinball is subjective, if your opinion differs from mine; that's awesome. I welcome counter points, but I doubt it will get me to change my opinion.-----

Overall, flow aside, ST plays pretty flat, IMO. I can't play more than 2 or 3 games without getting "bored" and moving on to something else. This fatigue is mainly due to the "chopping wood" nature of the mode layout and content.

The modes feel like work, as others have previously stated. And I agree that ST has "fake depth", it touts 18 modes, but most of them are exactly the same, save some minor differences. And the biggest issue with this code, currently, is that there's no "lateral movement" in gameplay, or side goals. You pretty much just keep building up the grid, with stacking one Multiball at a time being the only lateral movement, which ends up being pretty shallow. In fact, you can't even stack a Multiball into every mode. I know that I was playing Nero II and started Vengeance MB and it paused Nero II until I exited out of VMB, which I thought was kinda dumb. This game needs something like Deadpool in XM, or Crank It Up/Fuel Scoring/Lady Justice in MET, a side mode that you can always work towards, no matter what mode or Multiball you're in. But anywho, I'll just go through, section by section, giving my long winded, convoluted opinion

-------Mission Grid-------
I think the basic idea of the Mission levels is good: you get a certain amount of time to make as many points as you can before the mode ends in order to get awarded 1/2 the total mode amount (I believe it's 1/2) as the 2nd JP shot for that corresponding shot in KM Multiball. The modes just need FOCUS. They all seem identical, so I feel like I'm playing the same mode 6 times with different colors and DMD animations. And while there ARE differences in how the shots light and which shots are lit for these modes, it's not drastic enough to give the modes any "personality" and they still all feel the same. FOCUS is my suggestion. For instance: Nero III is basically a loops round; shoot the left or right loops 5-6 times to finish the mode. So Why not make all the Nero missions similar in goal? So Nero is shoot the left or right loops to get as many points as possible within 25-30 seconds. Nero II is make 6 left or right loops, period, no timer, and your progress is saved should you drain. Nero III is shoot 6 left or right loops within a 55 second period, with no progress saved if you drain of time out the mode. I use specifics to give example to why Maybe a principal similar to this is needed for all tiers?

This is needed because whether level 2 or 3 missions are timed or not is inconsistent. Some modes are timed, some aren't. Yes, you can sit and memorize which missions are timed or not, but it's much more easy and accessible if the tiers all follow the same "laws". Like the above Nero scenario, for instance. Level I missions have a small timer to collect as many points as possible to bring into KM Multiball, and are completed when it times out. Level II missions have no timer, but require a set amount of shots and save progress if you drain like some of them are now. Level III combines the two previous tier "laws" to have a 50-60 sec timer with a set amount of shots to complete mode, no progress saved if drained or timed out. This way, the player can expect the overall parameters of each mission tier to behave the same, while still making sure each tier has a higher difficulty than the previous tier.

Some may be thinking, "But Ryan, won't it be super boring if, like in your Nero example, each Nero mission is the same loop shots as the goal?" In short: no, I don't think so. I would much rather have 3 missions that have same focused goal, with rising difficulty, than have 18 modes that all play somewhat the same -_-. I hope that makes sense. I think it's okay to have each specific mode to have the same focused lit shot goals to complete for all three tiers, so long as the difficulty and parameters change along with each tier. And any such boredom would only set in if you're going straight for the three missions high; but if you go around to the other missions, that also have differently focused shot goals for the mode, you'll always be getting a change in gameplay focus. There's 18 modes, people, it is unavoidable to not have repetitive shot goals for modes with that many modes. But my point stays: I'd much rather have 3 modes that play the same, with raising difficulty, than have 18 modes that all practically feel and play the same anyways.

Off my soapbox (about time)

-------Vengeance Battle Rounds-------
I like the vengeance battle Multiball round to start off with; it's fun and players can figure out what to do, a good, fun and accessible Multiball for many player types.

The second Vengeance Scoring round is good as well, still good. Got the raptor pit kickback gimmick going on. Scoring is fine, but I think a little low for the risk.

The third Vengeance round is......the same as the second....-_-. Boo. I don't like the Vengeance Scoring mode THAT much to want to play it again. Again, the risk/reward is just not good enough IMO. in it's place I will make my only real suggestion to the programmers of what to do (hey, I said I would probably break down and do it ) since this is three "levels" into the Vengeance modes, I feel like it needs to have some pretty good risk/reward to it, since it's a good achievement to make it that many Vengeance missions in.

I propose to have another Multiball round for a final Vengeance battle. 4 ball Multiball mode where the goal of the mode is simple: lock balls and light the SJP shot with a dynamic value dependent on how many balls are locked. Basically like T2, which I thought pretty appropriate seeing as how it's another Ritchie game ^_^. The three lock areas would be the left eject, the Vengeance and the Away Team shot into the shooter lane. So, let's say you lock a ball in the eject, the Vengeance and the away team, so you have one ball in the play. Then the Warp ramp would light for a SJP. SJP would start at 5mil and would increase by 250k (or whatever) for each non-lock shot hit., to a cap of, let's say, 10mil. When you lock a ball it starts a 15 second timer, locking another ball within that time resets the timer, with all balls locked, the timer stays at 15 secs for the SJP. If the timer ever reaches 0, all locked balls are released. If you drain a ball, the game will keep track of how many "valid" balls are in play, therefore if you have all four still in play, it knows to light the SJP after you lock three, if you have three balls in play, then it knows to light the SJP after locking two, and if you have two balls in play, the SJP lights after you lock one ball. The SJP is worth whatever the accumulated amount in the mode is x's the amount of balls locked. You can make multiple Warp ramp hits after the SJP shot and keep collecting the SJP amount, but after the player hits the Warp ramp for the SJP shot, the next time a non-warp ramp switch is hit, the balls release and the SJP is reset and the Multiball goes back to square one, except no extra balls get ejected. Note: in this scenario, if the player is down to three balls; the locks lit are the left eject and Away Team. If the player has only two balls in play; the Away Team is the lock shot.

In that scenario is it possible to plunge the ball "locked" in the shooter lane? Yes. But why would you want to?!

-------Klingon Multiball--------
As others have said: the SJP in this mode is SAD. I actually attained it and was a B!TCH to do....all for 3.5mil?! Boo I say to that! Should be 10mil, minimum. Other than that, I like the mode.

-------Enterprise Amok-------
EA wizard has a great opening animation, but is ridiculously long and currently is all text, aside from the opening. It's basically a switch mode with I *think* 4, maybe 5 levels. In each "level" you're going for a certain amount of switch hits to move onto the next level of the mode. Each shot on the playfield increases the eventual SJP by a certain amount. Once you get enough switch hits to get past the 4-5 levels, the vengeance light to collect the SJP amount, which can get very large. The problem is with how many switch hits are needed in the later levels. Upwards of 250 switch hits are needed past level three, I believe. That's a LOT of hits, and is definitely possible, but it's just a long way to go and could use shortening up a bit. Maybe decrease the amount of "levels" and increase the SJP amount increase per shot? Hoping that additional animations and callouts in this mode in the future make this seem less tedious.

-------5 Year Mission-------
5YM is currently pretty much the Lonnie special on PEDs. All shots are lit on playfield, except for Away Team, and you hit each shot FOUR times to unlight it. Each lit shot hit increases the SJP. Unlight all shots and then the SJP lights for the accumulated amount. No Dots really for the mode except for the opening animation, the rest is all text. But other than that, that's pretty much it. Okay I guess, it's certainly better than just the plain ol' Lonnie Special with the accumulating SJP. Will be interesting to see how the mode will get filled out with animations, hopefully they will give the mode more "personality" and "life".

-------Warp Ramp-------
The Warp ramp is the most fun shot on the playfield, aside from the Away Team. So not a lot to complain about its use other than to scale its scoring better. The add-a-ball at 9.9 is pretty cool, but I think it is overall pretty useless. God forbid you're unfortunate enough to finally hit 9.9 when in a Multiball, only to lose it :-/. The game plays so fast, and there just isn't enough good stuff that can happen by merely adding an extra ball into play. I still would like to see it stay in there, but bring in some other "bonus" with it other than just the extra ball in play. Maybe something like a 2x playfield multiplier as long as there's the extra ball is in play (or if you're in a Multiball and already have four balls in play, the multiplier is active until you drain down to three balls)? Something like that would be cool. Other than the level three mission bonus (which is a PITA to attain) which end up not being that worth it in context, IMO, ST is lacking on playfield multiplier bonuses that are player "controlled".

-------Away Team-------
The 2nd most fun shot to hit on the playfield, I think it is criminally underutilized. Why not use it as a SJP shot? Or a valid goal shot in A mission mode (as long as it's not the last shot). I dunno, just use it for something else other than just to start a mission mode, please!

-------Pops-------
The pops levels mean nothing to me; the scoring just doesn't make a meaningful dent in the game currently.....Unless there's something I'm missing, haha. Give some better meaning to the pops levels, give me a REASON to want to keep my ball in the pops during gameplay. Maybe tie them into a side mission? *shrug*

-------Trek Lanes-------
They increase the spinner level, which is okay I guess. They can make a Super Spinner shot worth 125k+ a spin rather than 110k and such. But again, the benefit of completing the lanes doesn't really make me go out of the way to make sure I keep completing them. I'm not hyper aware of keeping the lanes completed like I do on ACDC or XM, where lane completions mean a lot to the game play. I'd like to see them have greater impact for scoring or gameplay.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Overall, this game just needs nuance, side goals and a little focus to keep players of all skill levels coming back for more and more, rather than having a great couple of fun games and then moving on due to the repetition.

Seeing as how I wrote a goddamn novel, I applaud anyone sphere who was able to suffer through my longwindedness, lol. You deserve a medal!!

Having said all this, I'm sure Steve, Tanio and the rest of the "crew" have some great stuff up their sleeve and hopefully will address a lot of this stuff in later update(s) with some more cool ideas that none of us even considered

#101 10 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

So, succinctly you are asking for Lyman to join the ST code team?
Agree in that the basics are there but there are not enough cool rewards for doing things and then risk v reward as in Crank it Up.
Maybe after 3 in a row, need a bonus that is collected via punch button or continued - let it build up? Anyway code really needs work - don't mind waiting as long as it rocks!

Haha! I think ANYONE would love for Lyman to join EVERY game code team, but I don't think Lyman is necessary to make the needed adjustments on ST code.

Truth be told; after playing a good solid 3 straight hours of MET the other day with 1.5 code, I wasn't blown away by it. Certainly not jizzing all over myself as some seem to be over the CIU modes. I'm not trying to start a flame war people....different strokes for different folks. MET is a great game and the update made it better, but you'd think by reading some of the reviews that it was the 2nd coming of Christ in pinball form. I'm sure if I were a MET owner that the update would have meant a little more; just like XM code meant more to me because of the roller coaster ride of owning it. Anywho, this isn't the thread for that, sorry.....

Point being is that I'm not specifically talking about adding something just like CIU in function, but in "spirit" I guess. A mode(s) that the player can always work towards, no matter what mode they are in, that stacks with ANYTHING. The game needs some side goals to go for.

#116 10 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

As it stands, you don't "defeat" any of the level 1 modes like you can in other pins, like LOTR. In LOTR you can finish a mode (it times out) without defeating it. Like Star Trek, you get to keep progressing in LOTR by simply finishing modes (it accumulates towards TABA), but you also get a Gift of the Elves IF you *defeat* the mode within the time allowed.
It's those gifts/bonuses for defeating a mode that is really lacking in Star Trek's code right now.
You need some kind of feeling of accomplishment after doing really well during one of the modes, other than just knowing that your JP scores will be higher during Kobayashi Multiball.
Again: make it so we can DEFEAT the mode (not just start it and complete it by the timer running out and hitting the last lit shot).

I'm not completely opposed to the idea, but keep in mind though that having a mode like that for level one means that there will be a finite amount of points that a player could bring into KM. So it would kinda neuter the KM scoring potential.

If STE had a 6 shot goal, but no timer; even if you combo'd every lit shot, you'd still have a maximum amount of points that you could bring into KM from that mode, no matter how awesome the player, as long as you combo before hitting a lit shot; you'll all get the same amount of points at full value when beating a mode.

Now, if you keep a timer in the mode for level 1, but have a certain amount of shots needed to complete it, and you get an end of mode bonus for every second left on the timer when you finish it, then there could be some interesting scoring potential. That might be the best of both worlds. That way, if you're a novice or casual player, you can still feel like to did something because when the mode times out; you still beat it and can move on and give yourself a sense of accomplishment by filling the grid. And if you're an intermediate to average player that knows what they're doing, you can try to complete the mode as quick as possible (which still highly promotes combos) so you can move on into other modes, as well as get a dynamic points bonus to the modes for how quickly you beat them.

Just a thought.

#144 10 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

Here's another idea to get rid of the weak-like warp 9.9 add a ball feature.
Warp 9.9 = warp multiball
3 ball mb with add a ball option
Call out: intro - female computer voice 'warp multiball initiated'
Lighting: warp chase lights over and over, pulse warp flasher, lasers! All other lighting off.
Rules: shoot the warp ramp! Warp millions! One warp shot is worth 1 million. Consecutive warp shots can increase that value by 2,4 and 5 mil (max). Effected by multipliers.
Call out: "warp millions 1, warp millions 2, warp millions 3, etc...."

As long as that would stack with ANY mode/Multiball/wizard; that would be awesome. A "floatable" Multiball would be awesome in ST.

2 weeks later
#244 10 years ago
Quoted from Gorgar1:

Can you only get 2x playfield scoring by completing level 3?

Yes, each level three completed gives a specific shot, depending on the mode, on the playfield 2x for the rest of the ball (or rest of the game if toggled in the adjustments).

It should be noted thought that it seems like the shot multipliers are broken currently, or at the least not fully functional, which is a huge bummer.

Case and point: a combo'd Warp Ramp during Super Ramps awards a maximum of 5mil a shot. Logic would dictate that a combo'd Warp Ramp during Super Ramps WITH the 2x shot multiplier for finishing DTD3 would now score 10mil a shot, making it extremely lucrative. But nope, it still only scores 5mil. And normal Warp Ramp scoring (for 9.3, 9.4, etc..) is not double either while 2x is going. In all cases the scoring shown on the DMD was the amount being added to the overall score, so this wasn't a case of the double scoring not being shown correctly, but adding to the overall score correctly.

#247 10 years ago
Quoted from Snailman:

Rcade: Do you have a link to another thread that give the detail of how the Super Ramps values are calculated (based on the your scoring in PD, SJ, and STE)?
Also, does the same thread contain the correlation between each mission's level 3 completion to its corresponding shot that gets doubled?
Thanks in advance!

There's no other thread, just my observation from playing.

Super Ramp values are static: left and right ramp are 1mil bonus each, and the Warp Ramp Super Ramp value is at 2.5mil. Super Ramp values are doubled if a part of a combo. So that's why a combo'd Warp Ramp during Super Ramps is 5mil a shot.

If there is a correlation between how you do during the game and the Super Ramos value, I haven't noticed it. Although it is possible that the Warp Ramp Super Ramps value is dynamic to other factors, because I know I've had the combo'd Warp Ramp Super Ramp value at 4.8mil before, as opposed to the 5mil, which was odd. Maybe the Super Ramps value is calculated according to your current Warp count at the time that you activate Super Ramps? Either way, I know that every left and right ramp hit during Super Ramps has always awarded a 1mil base bonus, 2mil if combo'd.

As far as level 3 mission multipliers, I'm not at home at the moment, but from the top of my head:

DTD- Warp Ramp
Nero- Left Orbit
KB- Left Ramp
STE- Right ramp
SJ- can't remember
PD- can't remember

#250 10 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

Super ramps, spinner, pops scoring is all based on your relative mission 1 scores.

Do you know how it is equated? I've never seen my left and right ramps worth anything other than 1mil during super ramps. Guess I gotta step my game up,lol

#253 10 years ago
Quoted from Snailman:

The old ST code had it static at 1M per Super Ramp shot. With the newer code, I've seen base Super Ramp value both below 1M, and upwards of 1.5M. But it definitely fluctuates, and is definitely based on your level 1 mission performance for the 3 missions that make up that "super." I just don't know the formula/logic that computes the Super base value.

Good to know!! I'll have to pay closer attention

#258 10 years ago
Quoted from Snailman:

Rcade: sounds like a cool glass off test for Ramps, Spinner, and Pops!

image-583.jpgimage-583.jpg

#259 10 years ago

Okay spent an hour or so testing the whole Super modes thingy, here's what I found out from my testing....

---Yes, 100% a player's performance on the three level one missions determines the amount of the relating Super mode for those three missions.

---there is a score cap to the each Super Bonus mode

---it seems that each mission alone has a certain score cap that it adds to the Super mode bonus score, which is 1/3 the maximum score amount. This basically means that you can't have an awesome DTD and hit 12 lit shots, then sh!t the bed on Nero and STE and get the full value on the Super Modes bonus score.

Here are the mins and max score bonus for Super Modes at a glance:
-----NOTE: minimum score amount is determined by the score I get when I time out all the relative missions modes without making one lit shot, save for making the last shot (and not the multicolored final shot)-----

(Non-combo point values)
-Super POPs- min: 30k. Max: 125k

-Super Spinner- min:35k. Max: 120k

-Super Ramps- min: 350k. Max: 1.25mil (note that the Warp Ramp will ALWAYS be 2x the base value of the left and right ramp score bonuses, so a min of 700k and a Max of 2.5mil). And comboing any of he Super Ramps will double that value.

From what I can tell, for the Super Ramps, that means that each Mission (PD, SJ and STE) each have a maximum bonus to add of 300k each, or 50k added to score bonus per shot up to the 300k per mission. So by at least making 6 lit shots per mission, you should be going into Super Ramps at full value. And 30k(ish?) each mission max Super score bonus for the Super Pops/Spinner missions.

Some weird behavior with the Super rounds I found during play, but need to verify further was:

-you seem to only be able to get one shot to activate a Super mode(s) per tier, currently. I came to this conclusion by the fact that when I started Super Ramps by itself, then moved onto completing Nero and DTD to light Super Spinner; Super Spinner never activated. This happened no matter which Super mode was started first, and no matter whether the previous Super mode was completed or not. So this means that it really does behoove the player to start two Super rounds at once, since the last Super round wouldn't work for the tier, as you've already used up your Super round activation for that tier. <redacted>

Of course, all the above is subject to human error and being dumb on my part. So if I've missed anything, or if any of he point values are off, I apologize. I try to be as thorough as possible with my testing as far as control tests and such and re-testing certain things, but I always miss some little thing,lol.

Hope this helps. At all, haha.

#263 10 years ago
Quoted from sto:

Im pretty sure, the super modes carry over KM until you made the number of shots. Maybe you finished them while playing KM?

EDIT: erased original reply because I was dead wrong. Went back and test, re-tested and triple tested and found it conclusive that Super rounds WILL stack and carry into KM.

#265 10 years ago

Woohoo!

#275 10 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

Can super spinner or super pops be doubled with combo shots to them? I believe in older code, super spinner was not doubled off a combo, and super pops is not an award I've ever gone for so I don't even know how to feed them.

From what I could conclude from my testing: No. Super Pops/Spinner scoring can NOT combo double, only Super ramps can combo double.

When I made the Super Spinner/Pops shot while the shot was combo lit, there was no combo increase in score that I could see.

Quoted from Snailman:

SKB, do the Super modes also stack with KMMB (prior to completing all the KM shots)?

Yes.

Quoted from Snailman:

Another question for everyone regarding Warp Ramp combos:
If you combo into the Warp Ramp, and then successfully immediately start "looping" the warp ramp, do the successive "looped" shots also have the 2x combo scoring? Or just the first shot of the warp ramp "loop" sequence?

Correct. Chaining Warp Ramp hits still count as a combo, and this will score the 2x combo bonus.

Quoted from Snailman:

And from your research, sounds like it could go as high as 5M per warp ramp!! Mmmmmmm.... Sweet sweet combo super warp ramp points.
Finally.... Some point values that make the warp ramp worth the risk of shooting (and risking the partial shot return to the R Outlane).

Yes, and excellent point potential of 50mil alone from the Warp Ramp if you focus solely on it during Super Ramps. IMPORTANT THING TO NOTE, THOUGH: the 2x Warp Ramp multiplier award given for completing all 3 tiers of DTD does NOT currently stack with Super Ramps scoring.....so no 10mil Warp Ramp shots yet . I will test this again to verify.

#276 10 years ago
Quoted from Rcade:

Of course, all the above is subject to human error and being dumb on my part.

Such is the case, and why I always caveat my testing .

I was wrong about the Super rounds not stacking in KM, they do in fact stack with KM, assuming you haven't completed them before entering KM. Really don't know why during my various testing last night that NOTHING indicated to me that they were stacking in KM and scoring, and I made sure that my Super rounds weren't completed yet before starting KM. Oh well, I was dumb. Point being that I fired it up this morning to triple check a few things, and sure enough, flashers were pulsing going into KM and Super rounds advancement/points were being awarded during KM. I will go back and edit my previous posts about this stuff....

But I did double check that Super Spinner/Pops points cannot be combo doubled...so there's that

1 week later
#336 10 years ago
Quoted from ectobar:

How is enterprise amok currently qualified?
I thought it was complete 2 whole missions. Last night I completed Klingon, and DTD, and nothing seemed to happen. I started another couple missions afterwards as well. Is there a specific shot I'm supposed to make to get amok going?

No, EA is qualified by completing ALL tier 2 missions.

#339 10 years ago

Eskaybee, I think you have something there in your suggestion(s). The basic idea of having 6 3-tier missions, as opposed to have 18 separate missions is intriguing. This might be a good solution tunnel to go down?

My biggest "issue" with this is that a casual player will be pretty much doomed to only playing 3 missions a game because you're "locked" into a missions until you drain or finish all three tiers. To me, this impedes strategy too much, and if I want to get out of a mission that I'm in, I either have to drain out or chop wood until I finish it, which I think is a bad idea in the long run.

Just spitballing here for the sake of discussion; but I would suggest that after a player completes the first "tier" of a mission, the Away Team shot lights up, and if a player so chooses, they can shoot the Away Team shot to "cash-out" and end the current mission tier and choose another mission to start (or continue with the mission they're on, if they hit the shot by accident). This adds a "push your luck" kind of element here (in a way), a'la the CIU Jackpot cashouts in MET. I think that would work pretty well.

Given the above scenario:

-the left scoop shot would only be valid for a mission start up if you've competed all 3 tiers of a mission, or if you can't start a mission from the plunge at start of ball due to Vengeance round being ready.

-once you light all 6 missions and play KM, the missions kind of "reset", and unlight except:
-----any mission that you completed all 3 tiers previously will stay lit

-----all other missions will "pick up" where you left off that last attempt you played it. I.E.: if you drained or "Away Team-ed out" of DTD 2; when the modes reset and you pick DTD again, you will start at tier 2, not 1. Hopefully that makes sense, haha.

-----completing all 3 tiers of all missions starts 5YM wizard. After you play 5YM, then all modes start all the way back over again, at tier 1

-----KM would be started after starting all 6 missions (whether or not they have all tiers completed) like it is now. And just like Eskaybee suggested the KM JPs would still be as they are now; the culmination of how well you did in the previous missions leading up to it, only now the JP potential is WAY higher, but you still get the risk/reward structure of the original KM because, if the player so chooses, they can get to KM "faster" by Away Teaming early out of a mission to start the others; but if they exit early out of a mission KM will have a much lower payout.

-----EA wizard would be ready at the left eject, Vengeance or Away Team shot after fully completing (all 3 tiers) 3 missions.

-----Super Spinner, Pops, and Ramp rounds would functional as normal. Except, like KM under this scenario, the scoring potential will now be much higher now since the player could possibly get deeper into modes for points calculation.

-----completing all 3 tiers of a particular mission would act as it is now; with a specific shot multiplier.

I think that all this would add much more strategy options to how to approach the game, with better payoffs for hard work and risk than the current code layout. I still think there needs to be some side-objective(s) to go for in the game though, maybe a mini-mission having to do with Tribbles? Maybe a ramp-combo scoring mode like Lady Justice in MET? Just something else there that stacks with everything else that's going on to break up what monotony there may be from playing in the missions all the time?

Of course, not telling the programming team what to do at all, I just like postulating and discussing this stuff on here. At the end of the day; I'm sure Steve, Tanio and the rest of the ST team will put together something great, and I can't wait to see what the future code update has in store for us!! Either way I'm thankful and will have fun!!

#341 10 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

I like the idea of using the away team shot as a method to start a new mission or continue on the current mission. Similar to crank it up on Metallica where you can continue playing the mode or cash it in. I think that would be fantastic so a player can continue going for the tier 3 reward and additional points for super pops/spinner/ramps as well a kobayashi. Or, they can swap missions.
I really want them to stray away from having this selection be made in between tiers as it brings us back to the initial problem of having to shoot those 2 tedious shots so often.

Exactly. That's why I think the combination of your suggestion and mine, with the 6 3-tier mode mentality, with the ability to "cash-out" and move on via Away a team shot, is a pretty good middle ground. The Away Team shot is fun and out of the way enough to make it something that controllable, but challenging when a player wants to move on. That way the decision to proceed or stick it out to increase they're pint potential for the Super Rounds/KM is in the player's control and they'd be able to play the game with they're own strategy and play style depending upon they're skill level.

#348 10 years ago
Quoted from Purpledrilmonkey:

I think this is the solution.
After completing a mission, the next tier should automatically start and the away team/mission select shots can light at the same time. Shoot one of the shots in single ball play and simply give the player the option to award a mission shot and continue the mission in progress, or abort mission and change to a different one.

Quoted from Aurich:

You know, the Start Mission and Away Team shots do the same thing, but are labeled differently. That works to make them function differently the way you're suggesting without introducing any confusion onto the playfield wording. Really, it even makes things less confusing, because why have then say different things if they're effectively the same?

All things considered, I think it's a bad idea to have the left eject be able to "cash-out" and start another mission. I think having it be the Away Team shot ONLY to "cash-out" the current mode would be the way to go in that scenario.

My reasoning for this is that the left eject is a much more "common" shot hit by accident during play, and in most missions is a valid lit goal shot. If I'm playing a tier-2 of a mission and have to hit the left eject as part of a combo or to progress the mode or lock a ball, I'd get sick after a while of having the mission select come up all the time. Would kill the kinetics of the game after a while too, and then tedium would set in after so many games of having to constantly deal with the mission select, especially when you're trying to keep in the current mission to progress to the next tier.

The Away Team shot is a much less likely shot to be made during single ball play, and (at least currently) is not a lit valid goal shot in any of the missions, so there's no repeated hitting of it either by accident or by just trying to progress the current mode.

The left eject "mission start" could be used to:
--start another mission after completing all three tiers of a current mission

--start a mission when the player is unable to change start a mission off the plunge due to a Vengeance mode being ready.

--start any other side mission modes, or EA wizard mode. The color changing LEDs in the prem/LE would do a good job of indicating, when lit, that the mission it will start is different than a normal mission. On the pros, maybe use a slow pulsing, or really quick flashing of the LED to signify?

#350 10 years ago

I here ya' on the Away Team shot and nomenclature. I thought it would be cool to use Away Team as an award for hitting the left and right ramps and spelling "A-w-a-y T-e-a-m" a'la Lady Justice in MET. Spell out Away Team via the ramps, and Away Team shot is lit while in a mission and single ball play; hit the shot and you get to stack another mission on top of the one you're currently playing. The idea being that you have one "team" doing one mission, and the "away team" doing another mission at the same time. But Ritchie is against stacking mission modes, so that won't work. Which is fine, the DMD animations would self destruct with two missions going on,lol.

#355 10 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

And at what point do these games all become too similar then?
MET's CIU mode is already similar to AC/DC in terms of cashing in jackpots/rewards or choosing to continue, and now we want ST to be like that as well?
Just thinking out loud here. I like the idea in theory, but not excited about the prospect of 3 recent Sterns being so similar in rule sets. At this point I'm probably sounding like I'd be impossible to please, but I can't help but say that this particular idea wouldn't make me want to keep the pin in my particular collection due to the similarity with AC/DC and MET.

I definitely see the point you're trying to make, and I'd agree with you except for the fact that the CONTEXT of that gameplay feature is different in each game, making it a different play experience in each. Plus the term "cash-out" and the comparison to MET is actually really not appropriate in context to what we're talking about in ST when I think about it; we should have used something else better to compare it to?

-in ACDC, the cash-out starts anew each ball, and carries over throughout all modes until you decide to hit the cannon target to cash out.

-in MET it's a JP that increases during a set amount of time in one mode until you choose to cash out an not continue.

-in ST it is simply whether or not you want to move onto another mode rather than drain your ball during that one mission. No JP is awarded. You don't lose the point/KM/Super rounds benefits in any way if you drain; you just lose the scoring potential for them. When looked at in context it is a completely different impact on the gameplay than either MET or ACDC.

#421 10 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I was playing last nite and just decided I wanted to finish Nero. So on Nero 3, for the first time I noticed that your flips move the shots...and if two shots overlap, they flash yellow/pink. Man - that's hard as hell to keep track of the movement pattern and flip at an unlit shot (as your flip moves the insert and lights it). I remember finishing Nero 3 relatively easy before...was I lucky or is this a newer rule? I'm assuming the yellow/pink shots give you 2 shots.

Correct. From what I can tell, that Nero mission is the only mission where you can control the shot selection, and like you said, if you line up both lit shots you progress the mode faster and get more points.

The left flipper moves one shot, the right flipper moves the other shot, so you can control the overlap, but it's pretty damn difficult to record the movement.

What I try to do is use the right flipper to light the insert for the left ramp shot, and as long as you don't use the right flipper, the left ramp will always stay lit. Then I use the left flipper to backhand the left ramp, and while the ball is traveling down the ramp, I try to get the left flipper controlled shot so that it's one shot away, that way when the ball gets back to the left flipper when you backhand the ramp again both shots will line up. Then while the ball is traveling down the ramp again: rinse and repeat with making the left flipper shot one shot away.

It's pretty difficult, but very rewarding when you keep hammering the left ramp with the double shot match up.

#428 10 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

And if you don't think xmen code is good now, you either haven't played it or don't understand it.

Or, in some cases, they can't get over the placement/function of the Wolvie toy. Which is at least much more valid than those that just say "XMen sux!" Without even playing it on 1.5 or higher

2 weeks later
#502 9 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

How's this sound for a rule:
T-R-E-K lanes: spell TREK once and the lights stay white. Next rollover turns them yellow until TREK is yellow. Then red, then purple, and finally green. Each time you spell TREK it lights a random award/mode available from the away team.
Level 1 awards could be: big points, little points, jackpots increase 25k,
Level 2 awards could be: bigger points, smaller points, jackpots increase 50k, lock ball, advance pops level, award shot (if mission active)
Level 3 awards: fast scoring, jackpots increase 75k, lock ball, advance pops level, super warps (warp shots points value increased 250k), double scoring, light pf multipliers
Level 4 awards: fast scoring, double scoring, jackpots increase 100k, warp millions (warp shots worth 1M), black hole mb, light pf multipliers

That's not a bad idea at all. Why didn't any of us think of that sooner?! Lol! Using the lanes the light the away team shot to collect awards based on the current TREK level makes sense. But once you hit the AWAY TEAM shot to collect the award, TREK should start all over again at 1(or white for LE/prems). I like it.

#504 9 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

It's a bit like Metallica, right? Doesn't spelling the inlanes on that repeatedly increase your mystery depth?

Correct

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