I actually kinda AGREE with the spirit of what you're saying (though it's a little rough around the edges): that people are offering too much opinion on too little information.

But whose fault is it that there is such little information on an expensive purchase that, at least for an LE, involves significant time pressures to make a RAPID, UNINFORMED decision onto the consumer?

It ain't pinside's, RGP, Facebook, nor the consumers' faults...

Stern hasn't really shown anything but some pics of the playfield.
The videos of a flipper and someone throwing a ball is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. If this is suppose to be a great pin it's time to show everyone why.

Yes! If its not going to have and LCD, then a blue DMD is a must. The red just doesn't look right on it to me. I guarantee there are going to be many of these changed over to blue by their owners. If I decide to get one, I will be one of those folks for sure.

.

If you read any of the comments I made on here, I'm calling both the good and the bad. Trying to be objective all around, and not just drinking the cool-aid. I have an LE on reserve, but no money down so at the end of the day, if I choose to walk away, I can do that.
I want to hear opinions for both those who are excited about this, and those who are disappointed. What I don't want to hear is simple trash-talking.
As I said before: many may not like the rehashed PF. Or the artwork. Or the colours. Or the video that was posted. All legitimate concerns. Talk about them. Oh: the price increase too!
(Don't even get me started on the marketing -"What marketing?")

I will not tolerate dorks like the one I was quoting, simply leaving a comment like the one he left. I haven't done it about WOZ (I actually wrote a complimentary review this past week after seeing it for the first time), so why should we have to put up with it?

I see you got a couple thumbs-up on your post. Check out who they were from.
I think I've made my point.

First, It's Kool Aid. Go ahead and drink it.

Second, I still think it's a bit too early to make a "call" on this game. I am waiting for some real video and to play it myself before I pass judgement. My guess is that it plays very fast and will have a solid set of rules with a couple of twists. Can't be sure yet with this limited video.

I do know this, however. If I was placing a bet, I would bet on Steve Ritchie. It's been a long time since he has delivered a real bust especially when given a budget and time. My 2 cents.

No, it is not a problem at all! I took your comment as you intended, and my response was a joke back at you, but I guess the wasn't enough.

You said you put your "RobT flame suit on" so I tried to be funny by flaming you with the "dumbass" comment.

We are good!

And no, it was most definitely NOT love at first sight for me. If you read my initial comments on STLE is was quite the opposite. Instead, it grew on me, and I decided to go forward with an LE. So far I have not seen anything that would cause me to change my mind in that regard.

The negatives that I have are the jackpot callout is weak, the ball lock on the pro is weak (I hope the Premium/LE is different) and I'm still not in love with the colors/artwork on the play field. But the positives I see outweigh all of those.

It will come down to code/rules and the overall audio package in determining if this is going to be an overall winner, as well as how it shoots (but that is very unlikely to be an issue with a SR designed pin).

I'm interested because of the theme first. That will be enough to get me to wait for my actual time on the game before I decide if I like it or not. The guy playing in the video bricked about every shot he tried. The shots that were made seemed more by accident. Obviously not a good vid to judge gameplay by.

One thing that really caught my eye was at 2:53 in the video. Just a lighting effect but very cool. I was watching and being annoyed and then that quick effect really woke me up. I played it over and over. I'm not saying this is some revolutionary and new-to-pinball use of GI and Inserts for lightshows. Just that it was very neat and makes me want to see it again in person.

I'm still on board until I get to play. Then I will decide....

RobT, the ball lock on all the models should be a real one. This is directly cut from the Feature Matrix:

"Magnetic Ball Lock behind single "USS Vengeance" Drop Target can hold Multiple Balls"

The guy in the video must have had virtual locks turned on?

My friends are starting to bump my high scores, WTF. And they were supposed to be the amateurs.

Either that or that's the way it is in the current code.

Oh no, not another one with incomplete code. It took a year for my Xmen to become playable.

Agreed. The dots looks good on this one. Real good. I like to zoom effect in the transporter for the multiplier.

Voices seem direct lifts from the movie, with some voice actors thrown in. The "Run Captain!" is obviously a voice actor. The rest seemed to be lifts.

Don't get me wrong, I have the same feelings you do on STLE, I think it looks great, SR, lighting etc., I'm just in the overall no buy camp right now because of justifying price in my mind and lack of info, both might change....

And I'm not being critical of kool aid drinking as you called yourself an admitted Stern "fanboy", I'd say I am too, fan away all day, I think its great....but you did take a swipe at Woz with the "one ramp" comment and obviously don't like it, no need to tear another pin down to justify this one, they can both be great in their own right...I wouldn't worry about "putting up with the comments", welcome them, embrace them, no need to censor, but then maybe I'm used to the 2 year Woz bash fest, I don't know?

GL with whatever you decide!

Code won't be complete. Only question will be how close to complete it is when they ship, and how long before they get us quality updates.

As far as the ball lock in the center and how weak it is in that video, I'm not too worried about it because like you said, it is supposed to lock more balls, and there is a magnet in there (at least on the Premium/LE) that we haven't seen in action yet.

Is there a magnet there on the Pro?

Agree with this wholeheartedly. In fact, I don't need a video to show me this game will shoot well. I need a video to help me with why this game is special. It has a special price tag... need to see a special game. Videos we've seen so far don't help. Typically vague features list is intriguing, but doesn't really prove much.

So far impression is kinda meh, but I just can't fathom that SR doesn't have something up his sleeve. I still think this game is going to be killer, just hoping for some evidence from Stern in the near future.

I don't even see how it is possible to hold multiple balls or how that would even work for multi player games.

The special price tag isn't of the pro model which is all we've seen. Just want to make sure that's clear; the videos are not of a $7800 game or even $6500 game. It's a $4800 pro.

Maybe the guys aux board blew and that's why the magnet wasnt locking balls

I am really struggling with this game being $4800 NIB. I honestly don't know what could be up SR's sleeve to make it worth more than my Whirlwind to be honest with you.

I hope I am really wrong and this thing dances.

Same thing could be said about any pro for that matter. I do own one stern pro machine and its my favorite in my lineup and is climbing the charts on my overall personal ratings.

Actually, they had the lot of us slobbering like basset hounds waiting for the announcement. If they turn out a quality pin, they're going to sell a ton of them. Why release a video until you've got something you want to demo? They're clearly not happy with it yet or else they would have. Would delaying the announcement a month have made that much of a difference in terms of the number of units they sell? Doubtful.

I respectfully disagree. This game just seems barren. When the most exciting thing about the game is a flasher underneath a spinner, I get concerned.

We need better video and un-biased reviews.

There should be a magnet on the Pro. What I pasted out of the Feature Matrix was for all three models and it says multiply balls are held by magnet.

Agreed, but you toss that out like its a bargain. I'm not seeing $4800 worth of pinball there. One toy thats been proven to do nothing so far. Remember thats more than we paid for LOTR, TSPP, SM, POTC, FG, etc... all full-featured games with much more on display that we've seen here. And before you say it, yes I understand the market has moved, but value-to-price seems to be out of whack so far on this title.

As I said, I believe there is much more, just haven't seen it yet.

There shouldn't be many / any mechanical problems because there are no mechanical toys in the game! The only mechanical mechanism of any significance on the pro is the drop target. Seems kind of lame in that sense.

It is real early, but the start on the sounds and DMD animation seem promising. Just like ACDC, this game will continue to get better.

IM not saying it like its a bargain. IM just stating the facts. IM not trying to defend the video (I think it sucks based off that video). I just find it funny how people are justifying their decision of the LE/premiums, whether their buying or not buying, based on a poor video of a pro model.

There is pressure right now (whether real or manufactured) to make a decision on the LE. Personally, I think there are plenty available, but there have been posts here claiming otherwise.

Given that lack of tangible information from Stern, the videos are one of the very few data points to serve as basis for any sort of decision right now. Sure you could take the blind faith route, but that doesn't always play out well.

The best info that I've come across so far is the Pinsider who posted the video. He said that after playing the Pro, he ordered an LE.
We saw the video. He wasn't making the game look like much fun. Clearly there's more to it than what he shared, or he wouldn't be buying an LE.
Again, the only person that I'm aware of who has actually played it, gives it a thumbs-up.
I'm taking this with a grain of salt, as it's only one opinion, but if anyone's "in the know" currently, I'm saying it's that guy!

I am trying not to judge until better video and playing it BUT I think Stern would be advised to shoot video that is good rather than letting these kind of videos be first impressions.

And my statement wasnt directed at you pincruah. I just was stating a fact that were looking at pro gameplay and people shouldn't let this one poor pro video base their decision on whether or not they should buy a prem/LE. There's no rush to buy a prem/LE IMO, but if you're in the market for one and undecided, then wait to see the prem/LE, not a pro.

The shaking ship isn't mechanical?

Not sure I completely agree with this. Anyone who wants the features as a player can buy a premium with no time pressure. The LE is more for the art crowd. If the premium didn't exist, I'd agree with you.

"Agreed" - but I would add the shaker and Laser cut side rails to the comment.

Klingon Multiball!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=QOv4Y-PI19Y

Totally. That's what sold me on the LE.. Hey! Quit changing my mind you!

It's strange, but it doesn't really look or sound like a Star Trek pin. It just kind of seems like a generic "Space battle" theme. I'm not a huge fan of the Star Trek franchise but having the original theme music would have made it more "Star Trek like" for me. The sound effects/callouts remind me of IM or Avengers. I'm sure the game will still be fun to shoot (It's Steve Ritchie after-all), it just doesn't seem to stand out or seem like anything new or innovative to me... Maybe the Premium/LE will impress more?

Me too!

They should have had the ball lock be a "beam up" into the ship.

Don't know about this one.... Certainly not wowed or dazzled at all. Kind of disappointed

Just say NO to "vertical video"...

I posted this on our local forum. I just copied and pasted it here:
----

I have said this before: Making decisions by watching these JOTS (Johnny on the Spot) videos is a poor idea-at least the way pinball videos are being presented.

Even if the videos are of the absolute best players on a game, there are a lot of missed shots, decisions that are not necessarily exciting, uncontrolled moments, and lifeless periods where the ball is trapped.

Great players can keep the ball in play because of their ability to shoot more accurately than most other players and their ability to recover from missed shots. The consistently better players do not play hit and hope.

But the game is often far from continuously exciting and certainly not perfect.

Take Bowen's tutorials. Bowen is awesome, we know that. Perfect? Not even close. Nobody is. He calls out things that he wants to happen and mostly he does it, but we watch him miss too, and he cannot execute every flipper technique flawless every time. (He will tell you he is a terrible a tap passing)

On modern Sterns, as exciting as it is reaching Valinor, or mini modes like Battle Royale, Danger Room or Sentinel Prime, there is a lot of work required to reach the modes and not everything gets done in one try. Watching a game for 30 minutes or more is not something people want.

If you watched the PAPA finals on PAPA tv, we saw lots of great play, but it was more of a controlled, safe game, but still lots of uncontrolled moments. Once a shot is missed or the ball cannot be trapped quickly, the ball is wild.

With these JOTS amateur videos with the glass off, it is much more on the side of randomness and noise. There is NO VIDEO of continuous play that can show all the elements and be effective as a marketing tool.

A successful pinball sales video would need to be edited to show the ball activating features, scoring key jackpots or callouts etc. Kind of what they do when they show video game promos. They TEASE the player-oh wow, that looks cool!

A successful pinball sales video of a modern pin would have to demonstrate these perhaps in this order:

1 Basic shots with some key sound effects from a rapid scoring feature like a spinner or balls in the pops. Lights flashing etc.

2 A clip of a key combo-like the orbit to side ramp, to right ramp (WARP COMBO! Or whatever)

3 How to start a mode and the intro callouts and ending callout of 1 or 2 modes

Music building…

4 The fundamental elements of the front end candy multiball that everyone can reach (Again just showing lock, lock, lock mb start)

5 The jackpot callout and the SJP callout

Back to some basic play with lights and sounds going and then leading to the narrative build up …

6 Once the player complete all modes and earn the SJP they can Rule the Universe, Save Earth, Conquer the Galaxy and show the tease intro to the wizard mode)

Deep menacing voice: Do you have what it takes to Conquer the Galaxy (or whatever). Contact your local Stern Distributor today to start your mission and Save Earth!

DOM BOM DA BOM! (or some sound effect then fade out)

This should maybe be 2 minute of footage where it just looks like a stream of awesomeness leaving the buyer with credit card in hand and cell phone in the other.

The difference is, the above does not need a great player, but a great editor.

Then the buyer gets the 8K game home, plays it, and wonders how the video made it look so easy

Can we at least see where the ball goes from the warp ramp?

People keep mentioning Steve Ritchie, but the other person who gives me confidence that this will be a great pin is David Thiel.

My Tron Pro was $4,200 delivered to my doorstep. So far, I'm just not seeing what makes this pin even up to par with that.

If you think about it, the LE pricing is now almost *DOUBLE* the Pro pricing. It should amaze and stupefy for that kind of cabbage.

I must be the only one who likes the jackpot call outs.

All right, no need to be angry... this is (only) pinball...

I can't believe we had to rely on a volonteer's video to make an opinion. Many, many thanks to those who posted these videos but... Stern, what are you thinking?? I honestly believed the 10s post on Stern's facebook was a joke, and that a real video would be posted minutes / hours afterwards... I was wrong.

So far, I don't see anything that would "force" me to buy that pin (pro only - anything else is out of my reach) without playing it first. Well... I like the cabinet artwork of the Pro and I believe a pin designed by SR can't be bad. But my real question would be : among recent sterns (X-men, ACDC, Metallica, Star Trek) which PRO would I buy? I STILL haven't play Metallica... it was in the lineup of the european championship, but it was not one of the pins I played. I saw it in details though. Beautiful...ST is not on top of my wishlist, at least for now.

Congrats to those who have faith and placed an order. Seriously. I am not a Star Trek fan but I understand one can have true love for this one. I just hope there will be one to play nearby I 'll bring some beers!

It appears many Pinsiders are struggling to make a decision on the latest Star Trek machine. Here is a decision tool that should help with the decision making process.

How to decide on the STID model to purchase.

Q0) Am I purchasing as an investment?
Yes - Don't purchase. Seek a reputable financial consultant
No - Continue to Q1
Q1) Do I like the theme?
Yes - Continue to Q2
No - Don't purchase
Q2) Do I want added features?
Yes - Continue to Q3
No - Continue to Q5A
Q3) Do I need to feel special?
Yes - Continue to Q5C
No - Continue to Q5B
Q5A) Can I afford it?
Yes - Purchase the STID Pro model
No - Don't purchase
Q5B) Can I afford it?
Yes - Purchase the STID Premium model
No - Don't purchase or answer No to Q2
Q5C) Can I afford it?
Yes - Purchase the STID LE model
No - Get another job

I'm going with the LE.

Is there a consensus on the laser projector? Apron? Has to be right? Fire button and shooting ship.