(Topic ID: 1931)

Star Trek TNG DMD Problem

By rcoultas

13 years ago


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  • 33 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by mrsyfy
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#1 13 years ago

I just bought a Star Trek TNG and the DMD on it has a really weird issue. The top part of the text is missing pixels. The animations show great though. I have been googling for a while and can't find anyone with the same issue as me. I made a video and put it on youtube. Please see below. Any help would be appreciated. I have repaired everything else on her with a soldering iron and some extra light bulbs but this is beyond my pay grade.

#2 13 years ago

Just a quickie guess:

It would appear to be a DMD controller board issue and not an issue with the DMD display itself. It's most likely a minor wiring/connector problem and at most a TTL tri-state IC driver problem from the controller board. (a 74LS24x IC)

It was super you posted this video .. I'm sure others may have more insight. Since you stated the wiring was checked I suspect a surface mount controller IC. While I said 74LS it might be 74L , 74S, etc .. but a logic IC is most suspect with the issue. It has a faulty data line I'm thinking.

#3 13 years ago

Actually my JM did this when I first got it. It did not do it at the guys house I bought it from.
Only once I plugged it in after getting it home/moved it.

I checked all the connections to the boards & DMD, and now it only does this for about 3 seconds or less after turning it on. It seems once it warms up its gone. I just pluged and unplugged all connectors and made sure they were tight and no wires pinched.

#4 13 years ago

What you see in the video is what it looks like after being on for a couple hours and that is as good as it gets. When I first turn I on, it is a little worse. I will go through it more to check connections. I almost wish there outright dead lines instead so I have something solid to replace.

#5 13 years ago

If it goes away after it warms up, it may have a pin with cracked solder.

#6 13 years ago

It never goes away just gets slightly better and what is in the video is as good as it gets. It is still very annoying. I did some late night research into it and and the problems might be with 16 year old capacitors not doing their job very well. I ordered some new caps to solder on to the DMD board and I hope that will take care of the issue. I checked all of the voltages into the DMD and everything was good.

The guide here

http://arcarc.xmission.com/Pinball/Web%20Archives/www.Marvin3m.com%20%28Sep-08-2003%29/wpc/index3.htm

talks about the caps causing a hum-bar or horizontal roll. I don't know if that is my issue or not. It is hard to describe in text.

The other possibility I think is resistors not doing a good job. I didn't see any cracked or damaged resistors but I will take a meter to them later to be sure that are working properly. Being a pinball owner is starting to make me into an amateur electrical engineer. It is never a bad this to have to learn new things though.

#7 13 years ago

Electrolytic caps always dry out over time. I hope it fixes your trouble. I always buy the 105C temp rated ones. I've been repairing electronics to the component level for the last 25 years as my job. Sometimes it's the simple things that elude you the most. If you take a can of air for dusting PC's etc and turn it upside down it will come out as a very cold liquid. Sometimes you can use this to cool down parts to find the bad one (it will make the problem better or worse temporarily). We used to get Freez-It mist at work but they cut us off due to budgets so now we do this.

#8 13 years ago

That is a great idea. I have also heard of using upside down air cans to clean components. Not sure how well it works.

#9 13 years ago

Just replaced 5 caps in the DMD board. The problem remains. I took a look at the screen and I saw that there were some traces scratched I reflowed the solder and now the problem is a little worse. I am thinking I am going to have to get a whole new screen now if I can't fix the board on the back of the DMD. I am guessing someone hit it with a screw driver or something.

#10 13 years ago

It would be great if you had another DMD to try in your machine. Remove and go through the DMD CONTROLLER board aswell if you haven´t done that.

#11 13 years ago

I can't watch the video at work. The pixels are dead only when there is text? The pixels work fine during animations? Sound like the chip may have gotten corrupted. Try reburning the chip with the latest software.

#12 13 years ago

Im guessing there is a problem with the controller board or the connection to the board because the pixels work, they just don't work on the horizontal. The big question is what part of the board or cable is causing the problem. But since you saw the problem get worse when you soldered pins I would look at cables and connections first.

#13 13 years ago

I thought I made the problem worse but actually it was just that it was off for several hours. When it first starts up from being room temp it does the same thing but it is VERY bad. Then after it warms up it looks like what I posted. After replacing the caps on the DMD controller board it actually didn't do anything different at all. I have reseated every ribbon cable back there and nothing.

My brother an I are in IT so we figured out that we can hook the DMD up to a computer and control what is on the screen to make sure it is the DMD board that needs to be replaced. We are planning to send it some horizontal lines and see how the screen takes it.

#14 13 years ago

unfortunatly, the best way to check the board or dmd is to put it in another machine. I guess you will need another pin.

if it takes a long time for the screen to warm up, then it probably does need to be replaced.

#15 13 years ago

Looks like it is starting to off gas to me. No way to fix that except to replace the DMD.
Pinballlife has them the cheapest I think.

#16 13 years ago

There is also a white rectangular resistor on the DMD board in the backbox that gets really really hot after it has been on for a while. So hot it hurts to touch it right after I turn the machine off. There are 2 of those resistors that I think are rated slightly different above it and they do not get nearly as hot. In fact, the back side of the board is blackened because of the heat it puts off. The markings are worn off the resistor but I looked up what the resistance should be and I tested it while it was off and it read ok.

Do you think there is a problem here? Is the resistor not working correctly or so you think it is being passed too much power and working overtime? The resistor is R8. I have attached a picture.

IMG_1191[1].JPGIMG_1191[1].JPG

#17 13 years ago

Those are built that way for high current/heat applications. But if one is getting hot enough to cook the PCB I'd get one in a higher wattage rating. Those are the wirewound ceramic type. I'm guessing from the size 5 watts. I can see the one is 1.8K Ohms with a 5% tolerance.

Go with a 10 watt for the one that is getting hot. It's not your DMD problem but replacing it can't hurt and will save your board from further heat damage.

#18 13 years ago

So the wattage rating of a resistor is just how much power it is able to withstand pumping through it? If I understand correctly, you can safely go higher wattage as long as the Ohm and tolerance are in spec?

#19 13 years ago

That is correct. The caveat is the higher wattage resistors are larger. So eventually you will run into space issues.

#20 13 years ago

If you don't replace it right away put in some solid wires and raise it higher off the circuit board so it quits cooking the PCB.

Remember Ohms Laws:

E=I*R
P=I*E so P=I(squared)*R etc etc

E is voltage in volts, I is current in amps, R is resistance in Ohms, P is power in Watts

2 weeks later
#21 13 years ago

I have replaced resistors and transistors to no avail. Here is something I forgot to tell. The screen buzzes and sounds different based on what is being displayed. Is this normal or a sign that the DMD has a problem?

#22 13 years ago

My Star Wars had that problem but I don't know the solution as I parted it out.

There was someone on here with a TZ not too long ago who had the buzzing problem we think was associated with the video. Not sure if that was fixed or not yet.

#23 13 years ago

Two of my DMDs make noise like that. I don't think it is that unusual to have a noisy DMD, I would much rather a noisy DMD than a gassed out one. Both of these seem to be much brighter than the others, so I don't think it is an indicatin of needing to be replaced. Not warming up within an hour probably is.

You should try to find someone nearby who has a proven DMD and see how it works. If you plug it in and it works perfectly then you will know that the boards are in good shape and you can stop changing resistors.

#24 13 years ago

Just a freakin' wag to try. Have you thought about taking the speaker wires off and routing them to a headphone or separate amplifier ? Then see if you have the problem.

1 week later
#25 13 years ago

I went ahead and just bit the bullet and bought a new screen. I hooked it up and it works perfect now. I am still not sure what the problem was with the old screen but it is finally fixed. Thank god.

#26 13 years ago

They wear out. If a machine is on location for a long time, they will leave it on all day and night. It has a limited lifespan.

Glad to hear that it is fixed and working properly.

2 years later
#27 10 years ago

I have a same problem on my Fish Tales, except that it only shows during testing texts when I turn on the machine. When doing DMD display test or during the game, all pixels seem to work fine.
Also, there is a lot of high frequency/buzzing noise when machine is in attract mode and when there is no sound. Frequency/buzz changes depending on what is shown on screen.

No biggie for now, just wanted to report.

4 months later
#28 10 years ago

http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wpc/index3.htm#dots

When this happens your dmd has "outgassed". They just go bad.

2 months later
#29 10 years ago

In case anyone finds this thread in the future, I really don't think this is just being outgassed, since each example of that I have seen takes out a chunk of the display area.
I have a similar issue on my Flintstones right now, and what seems to have been overlooked is that the "wavering" occurs at the top of each font/image alone.

If you have a full screen image, the top line of that image wavers.
If you have the score displayed in one font on the screen, the top line of that font wavers.
As well you will have the ball/credits in a different font on the screen, the top line of that font wavers.
And when your video ends, in the test mode, each of the 3 lines of text has the wavering just at the top of each.

It is interesting to note that you replaced the DMD and the problem was fixed! That narrows down the search to the components on the DMD itself. Thanks!

4 years later
#30 5 years ago

I have some issues with a Star Trek TNG pinball that I delivered. It was working fine or so I thought before it was delivered. After a day at its new location the DMD had line going down trough it. Now its just random dots all over the display and no sound. Pulled the boards and sent them off for repairs. Now after extensive work on the boards. Still having the same issues. All the voltage lights come on and the CPU lights are working normal. But still no sound and no display, the game will not even play. Used the manual to check every connector for proper installation. and all ribbon cables are in place. Going to try a new DMD next week. Anything else I should check for?

#31 5 years ago
Quoted from mrsyfy:

I have some issues with a Star Trek TNG pinball that I delivered. It was working fine or so I thought before it was delivered. After a day at its new location the DMD had line going down trough it. Now its just random dots all over the display and no sound. Pulled the boards and sent them off for repairs. Now after extensive work on the boards. Still having the same issues. All the voltage lights come on and the CPU lights are working normal. But still no sound and no display, the game will not even play. Used the manual to check every connector for proper installation. and all ribbon cables are in place. Going to try a new DMD next week. Anything else I should check for?

You would have MUCH better luck posting these questions over here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/sttng-owners-club

The thread is very active and you should get a much quicker response.

#32 5 years ago
Quoted from mrsyfy:

I have some issues with a Star Trek TNG pinball that I delivered. It was working fine or so I thought before it was delivered. After a day at its new location the DMD had line going down trough it. Now its just random dots all over the display and no sound. Pulled the boards and sent them off for repairs. Now after extensive work on the boards. Still having the same issues. All the voltage lights come on and the CPU lights are working normal. But still no sound and no display, the game will not even play. Used the manual to check every connector for proper installation. and all ribbon cables are in place. Going to try a new DMD next week. Anything else I should check for?

Carefully check all the ribbon cables to ensure they are on correctly - pin 1 oriented correctly on all ends, not shifted a pin. These can be very tricky to see and since you removed your boards, you should check them all.

Check all the fuses with a meter. There are 2 on the sound board and 2 on the DMD controller for starters.

If they are all good, as a troubleshooting step, remove the ribbon cable connector on the sound board and see of the DMD works. Reinstall the sound board connector then try removing the ribbon from the DMD controller and see if the sound works.

#33 5 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

Carefully check all the ribbon cables to ensure they are on correctly - pin 1 oriented correctly on all ends, not shifted a pin. These can be very tricky to see and since you removed your boards, you should check them all.
Check all the fuses with a meter. There are 2 on the sound board and 2 on the DMD controller for starters.
If they are all good, as a troubleshooting step, remove the ribbon cable connector on the sound board and see of the DMD works. Reinstall the sound board connector then try removing the ribbon from the DMD controller and see if the sound works.

Thanks I will check that this weekend.

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