(Topic ID: 280559)

Star Trek Next Generation STTNG Troubleshooting

By Tomandmandy2020

3 years ago


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There are 54 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 3 years ago

Well Here we go. I recently acquired a STTNG machine and it came out of a Laundry Mat. It's in good shape cosmetically, but has some gremlins that I am chasing down. And I am hoping for some help from the forum.

First is the cannons. I've got most of the issues fixed and running. The current issue is the left gun can't find the home location. I have replace both switches under the playfield associated with the cannon and finding home, and still no luck. Any suggestions on where to look next?

Secondly, and more importantly. When I turn the machine on and start a new game. It instantly starts a mode and the ball doesn't kick out to the shooter trough. This is a new issue that has started since I have been working on the cannons. Before it would start fine and you could play the game, in a somewhat safe mode, where the cannons were bypassed.

I'm pretty comfortable at troubleshooting and have become familiar with this game and the common issues it has. Now I am looking for places to start checking to resolve these issues.
Any ideas are welcome.

Thanks

#2 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomandmandy2020:

It instantly starts a mode and the ball doesn't kick out to the shooter trough.

A switch stuck closed somewhere ?

LTG : )

#3 3 years ago

Have you tried wiggling the ball trough opto connectors in switch test mode?

The connectors are notorious for poor connections after ~30 years.

Also check the trough opto transmitters by using an old point and shoot camera. My STTNG had both transmitter and connector issues.

#4 3 years ago

Thanks. Gives me a good place to start.

#5 3 years ago

So for the cannons lots of the switches don't register in the switch test. I've replaced a couple of them and they still don't work. How do I test the home and mark switches on each cannon? These are the switches that I am having issues with.

On a separate issue I noticed none of the flasher bulbs are working. I've had issues with G.I. Connector J120 on the power board that I fixed. But it didn't fix the issue with the flashers.

On the

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomandmandy2020:

But it didn't fix the issue with the flashers.

Flashers ar a different circuit. Fuse okay ? 20 volt test point have 20 volts ? Bulbs good ?

LTG : )

#7 3 years ago

For the flashers issue Yes the bulbs and fuse are good. Don't know where to check for the 20volt test point.
But it's all the flashers that are out, including the back box. So it's something else that's effecting them.

For the plunger trough issue, all the opto's work in the switch test mode. But it's still not kicking out a ball when I start a new game.

Thoughts?

#8 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomandmandy2020:

Don't know where to check for the 20volt test point.

Metal stud on the power driver board labeled TP 20V

Quoted from Tomandmandy2020:

So it's something else that's effecting them.

their fuse ?

Quoted from Tomandmandy2020:

But it's still not kicking out a ball when I start a new game.

If all other coils on that fuse work, I'd go over the wiring to the coil and thin wires from coil to coil lugs for breaks or cracks.

LTG : )

#9 3 years ago

ooof... I will check this out later when I get time and see if i can help.

I had one of these I fought with for years to keep it working.

One of my favorites but a beast to keep working.

#10 3 years ago

And we're back...

So for the flasher bulb issue I found the 20v TP and it seems to be giving a reading of about 6-8 volts. if I'm reading the meter right.

For the game not kicking out a ball at the start of the game, all the wiring seems good with nothing exposed or broken to the coils. On one of the onto boards a led is lit up red (instead of green) that's labeled D8 "JAM".

For the cannons, I still get the test report message that both cannons can't find home.
In switch test mode 3 out of 4 switches don't register. I believe it's switches number 32,33,35.

Any suggestions welcome.
Thanks

#11 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomandmandy2020:

For the cannons, I still get the test report message that both cannons can't find home.
In switch test mode 3 out of 4 switches don't register. I believe it's switches number 32,33,35.

New harnesses for the cannons.

Quoted from Tomandmandy2020:

So for the flasher bulb issue I found the 20v TP and it seems to be giving a reading of about 6-8 volts. if I'm reading the meter right.

Get your board fixed.

LTG : )

#12 3 years ago

Is there anyway all of these issues are connected?
Could it all have something to do with the board?

For the ball trough and not kicking out a ball issue. Is there a away to reset or correct the red led light on the opto board? It's labeled "jam". Or is this another opto board that needs replacing?

For the 20v TP and just to be certain , what setting should the multi meter be set on?

#13 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomandmandy2020:

Is there anyway all of these issues are connected?
Could it all have something to do with the board?
For the ball trough and not kicking out a ball issue. Is there a away to reset or correct the red led light on the opto board? It's labeled "jam". Or is this another opto board that needs replacing?
For the 20v TP and just to be certain , what setting should the multi meter be set on?

I doubt they are ALL related to the same problem, the 20V flasher circuit is certainly not going to cause the other problems so you have at least two significant issues. With all the balls in the game put it into switch level and post a picture of what that looks like. The optos in the trough and the connectors on the trough and opto board under the playfield are notoriously troublesome so when in this mode also try wiggling the connectors on those boards and see if any of them toggle back and forth. Does the empty balls utility work properly?

Edit: for testing the 20VDC circuit you need to have it in the DC volt range that is the closest to but greater than 20, so 25 or 50 on most non-autoranging meters I've seen.

#14 3 years ago

For the trough issue...
I know the empty ball utility is not working at all. Nothing happens.
Around the opto board if I move the wires around, the connections are good and there is no bare wires or shorts.
In switch mode if I roll a ball in the trough it shows all switches register
including #67 trough up and #68 shooter.
thats what makes me think the opto board for the trough might be bad.
I can't seem to figure out what the red led light "jam" means or how to maybe reset it.
But it's not loading / kicking the ball out of the trough to the shooter.

#15 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomandmandy2020:

For the trough issue...
I know the empty ball utility is not working at all. Nothing happens.
Around the opto board if I move the wires around, the connections are good and there is no bare wires or shorts.
In switch mode if I roll a ball in the trough it shows all switches register
including #67 trough up and #68 shooter.
thats what makes me think the opto board for the trough might be bad.
I can't seem to figure out what the red led light "jam" means or how to maybe reset it.
But it's not loading / kicking the ball out of the trough to the shooter.

Okay, does that (trough kicker) work in solenoid test (don't forget to close or pull-out the interlock switch when the coin door is open)? For the JAM opto I'm guessing the transmitter on that board went bad but it could be multiple other things as well.

#16 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomandmandy2020:

For the trough issue...
I know the empty ball utility is not working at all. Nothing happens.
Around the opto board if I move the wires around, the connections are good and there is no bare wires or shorts.
In switch mode if I roll a ball in the trough it shows all switches register
including #67 trough up and #68 shooter.
thats what makes me think the opto board for the trough might be bad.
I can't seem to figure out what the red led light "jam" means or how to maybe reset it.
But it's not loading / kicking the ball out of the trough to the shooter.

Are you closing the coin door when you try to clear out the balls? The safety interlock switch will keep the high power circuits like the coils from operating with it open.

#17 3 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

(don't forget to close or pull-out the interlock switch when the coin door is open)

If it's the version that doesn't pull out, you'll need to hold it in.

LTG : )

#18 3 years ago

So with the interlock pressed in / coin door closed, the clear out all balls test does nothing.

And for the plunger trough in solenoid testing the coil does nothing. And almost all of the rest of the coils seem dead and do nothing. Again with interlock pressed in and / or with the door closed.

Could this all be related to the power driver board?
And I think the plunger opto board will need replacing also. Should I do both or keep the good one and only replace the blown board?

#19 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomandmandy2020:

Could this all be related to the power driver board?

I'd pull and check fuses with a meter for high power to coils. And then test the 50 volt test point on the power driver board. If working it will test higher that 50 volts not under load.

LTG : )

#20 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomandmandy2020:

Well Here we go. I recently acquired a STTNG machine and it came out of a Laundry Mat. It's in good shape cosmetically, but has some gremlins that I am chasing down. And I am hoping for some help from the forum.
First is the cannons. I've got most of the issues fixed and running. The current issue is the left gun can't find the home location. I have replace both switches under the playfield associated with the cannon and finding home, and still no luck. Any suggestions on where to look next?
Secondly, and more importantly. When I turn the machine on and start a new game. It instantly starts a mode and the ball doesn't kick out to the shooter trough. This is a new issue that has started since I have been working on the cannons. Before it would start fine and you could play the game, in a somewhat safe mode, where the cannons were bypassed.
I'm pretty comfortable at troubleshooting and have become familiar with this game and the common issues it has. Now I am looking for places to start checking to resolve these issues.
Any ideas are welcome.
Thanks

Step one. Post a high res picture of the power driver board (change the dropdown menu on the attach image to "full res" so it doesn't resize), and maybe a closeup of the area around and below the battery area. The diversity and weirdness of the problems could be battery damage related.

#21 3 years ago

So the fuses all check out but the 50v TP doesn't register right.
Funny thing is I checked the 20v TP again since I was there and now that seems to register fine when before it was weak.

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#22 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomandmandy2020:

So the fuses all check out but the 50v TP doesn't register right.
Funny thing is I checked the 20v TP again since I was there and now that seems to register fine when before it was weak.[quoted image][quoted image]

On the CPU board looks like you have some former battery damage that was cleaned up around U19 and a few of the resistors below it. Can you take a picture of just the area from the battery box bottom to the bottom of the CPU board so it's the whole picture? Some of the resistor solder pads are dark like battery damage had been cleaned up, but I can't tell for sure if it's that or shadows at the size that small area is in the whole bigger picture you posted.

U20 the chip legs look ok, but there's a bunch of capacitors on the right below it that look like the pads are bad, suggesting U20 may be damaged, too. U20 controls the switches. So your weird issues maybe have a common cause.
Star_Trek_CPU_Board_Issues.jpgStar_Trek_CPU_Board_Issues.jpg

#23 3 years ago

Not having 50VDC would certainly stop your solenoids from working. Are you sure F112 on the PDB is good (check it out of the holder), if it is you should test A/C voltage on J102 pins 6&9. If you have power there test BR3 with a meter in diode test.

#24 3 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

I'd pull and check fuses with a meter for high power to coils.

Sorry @LTG, this drives me crazy ... I just don't understand why you want people to pull this style fuse to check them. DONT, just measure the resistance of them without removing them, they should all be near zero ohms, this reading s dependent on the quality of your meter and leads, but will be the same in or out of circuit.

#25 3 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

Sorry LTG, this drives me crazy ... I just don't understand why you people want to pull this style fuse to check them.

I'd chalk it up to his length and breadth of amusement experience and seeing the edge cases over the years where testing in the holder generates a false result for whatever reason. Plus the more foolproof nature of taking the fuses out and testing them for continuity that isn't dependant on the quality of the multimeter. You don't know what tools your audience has, and they most often are less than great.
youpeople.jpgyoupeople.jpg

#26 3 years ago
IMG_0335 (resized).JPGIMG_0335 (resized).JPG
#27 3 years ago

Yeah, you definitely have battery damage at some point in this board's past. You can tell by the dull/dark solder pads on some of the components. This picture is bigger, but a little blurry, but from this angle, it looks like 4 of the resistors above U19 may also be a bit fuzzy/green at the solder pads, meaning damaged at some point.

I'd send those pics to Clive at coin-op cauldron and see if he concurs. He can fix you up. I'd START there, because if the board is battery damaged, some of the problems you're chasing might be mirages caused by the board damage at the root.

http://coinopcauldron.com/

#28 3 years ago

I can get a better picture if needed.
I double checked fuse 112 out of the holder and yep... toast.
Put a new one in and proceeded to blow the new one instantly by turning the game back on.

Also the connector for J118 & J120 were burnt and fired when I got the machine. I re wired new connectors and cleaned the pins but that was all.

#29 3 years ago

That's what I am leaning towards is that these weird effects are from a bad power board.
And a bad trough opto board. Maybe

#30 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomandmandy2020:

That's what I am leaning towards is that these weird effects are from a bad power board.
And a bad trough opto board. Maybe

CPU board is the one with what looks like the battery damage. Power board may have issues, too, but I'd start with the CPU board. But if you're sending it off to Clive after consulting, just send him both boards and have him go through them for you.

#31 3 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

I just don't understand why you people want to pull this style fuse to check them.

I don't like testing things in circuit. When you pull a fuse you can tell if the metal clips holding it are still tight. And if the metal caps on the end of the fuse are still on it.

Sorry. Didn't mean to offend anybody.

LTG

#32 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomandmandy2020:

I can get a better picture if needed.
I double checked fuse 112 out of the holder and yep... toast.
Put a new one in and proceeded to blow the new one instantly by turning the game back on.
Also the connector for J118 & J120 were burnt and fired when I got the machine. I re wired new connectors and cleaned the pins but that was all.

You may just have a shorted transistor on the PDB, pull the connectors that go to the playfield for solenoids off the pdb (sorry, I don't have the manual in front of me right now), replace the fuse and see if it has 50VDC that way. If it does you need to hunt down what drive / pre-drive transistors are shorted causing the fuse to blow. I'd personally get this figured out before I worried about the CPU but that's just me.

#33 3 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

I just don't understand why you people want to pull this style fuse to check them.

This was actually supposed to say "I just don't understand why you want people to pull this style fuse to check them."

I'm so embarrassed

My point here is if it measures a short in circuit then its not blown, which is kind of the point of checking fuses. Maybe I've been around loo long and seen to many people screw up their fuse holders prying these fuses out with a screwdriver which is what makes them loose. I've also seen people get odd readings because they pull the fuse and hold it and the meter leads together between their thumb and fingers and measure the resistance through their body and since it didn't read open they thought it was good.

Quoted from LTG:

Sorry. Didn't mean to offend anybody.

LTG I'm not offended at all, sorry if I came off as harsh. In this day and age working on things with these type fuses is getting to be very uncommon. I automatically assume that whoever I'm trying to help has never replaced one and is also unaware there is a tool to remove them and that there are things you shouldn't do to the fuse holder, like jam a screwdriver in it and use the clips for extra leverage to pop the fuse out.

Additional food for thought...
A long long time ago, automobiles used to have this same type fuses, but they changed to smaller fuse commonly known as an automotive fuse. The question I have is why do you think the manufacturing specs for these fuses call for an extension of the fuses terminal legs towards the top of the fuse and access to through the plastic cover to the terminals. IMO its because fuses are designed to be tested without being removed.

#34 3 years ago

So I unplugged the connectors for the soleniods from the PCB and replaced the fuse then
turned on the machine and the fuse instantly blew again, like instantly.

#35 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomandmandy2020:

So I unplugged the connectors for the soleniods from the PCB and replaced the fuse then
turned on the machine and the fuse instantly blew again, like instantly.

This may help:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/blown-main-fuse#post-4939568

#36 3 years ago

That is helpful and makes sense but how to do I isolate which connection is bad on STTNG. I had all associated connectors unplugged and fuse 112 still blew.

#37 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomandmandy2020:

That is helpful and makes sense but how to do I isolate which connection is bad on STTNG. I had all associated connectors unplugged and fuse 112 still blew.

So did you have J104-J109 all disconnected? If you disconnected ALL of them and still blew the fuse, check the affected 50V bridge rectifiers.

BR3 on the power driver board

BR1 on the fliptronics board

If all those check out, check the dot matrix controller for the DMD. F112 fuses that, too. It's very unlikely, but if all the above checks out, it's one place to look that isn't out of the realm of possbility.

#38 3 years ago

I had j107 j118 j126 j127 j130 all disconnected and it blew
With them all connected but with j901 disconnected it seemed to work and not blow.

#39 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomandmandy2020:

That is helpful and makes sense but how to do I isolate which connection is bad on STTNG. I had all associated connectors unplugged and fuse 112 still blew.

If you had J104 thru J108 disconnected and the fuse blew then you need to replace BR3. If you want to test it before you replace it, heres how you do it:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/addams-family-fuse-blowing#post-2654023

#40 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomandmandy2020:

I had j107 j118 j126 j127 j130 all disconnected and it blew
With them all connected but with j901 disconnected it seemed to work and not blow.

So plug everything back in except J104-J109. Try that. If it didn't blow, power off and then plug one at a time from J104-J109 back in and power on to see which one causes it to blow when plugged back in. Repeat until you isolate which one blows the fuse.

#41 3 years ago

With j901 disconnected the ball trough has started kicking the ball out at the start of the game. Meaning that opto board is not bad and is properly working again.

#42 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomandmandy2020:

j901 disconnected it seemed to work and not blow.

You moved boards to J901 which is the other end of the cable that's connected to J104 or J105 on the PDB.

Quoted from Tomandmandy2020:

With j901 disconnected the ball trough has started kicking the ball out at the start of the game. Meaning that opto board is not bad and is properly working again.

LOL...I had to read my own post from last year...I actually had that guy remove J901 as its clearer than saying J104 or J105 as the cable can be on either one.

#43 3 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Guy:

You moved boards on me J901 is the other end of the cable that's connected to J104 or J105 on the PDB. I do'nt think you folloed the test instructions :/

I dont believe you disconnected J104 and/or J105 from the PBD. J901 is the other end of that cable.

I'll let you take this. There's no reason for two similar but slightly different diagnostic coaches on this. Might be part of the confusion.

#44 3 years ago
Quoted from PinMonk:

I'll let you take this. There's no reason for two similar but slightly different diagnostic coaches on this. Might be part of the confusion.

All good, he has everything he needs. I should have just copied my old post to here instead of linking it as I ended up confusing myself on what I listed there. LOL

#45 3 years ago

Funny we're talking about different ends to the same connection.

So what's next?

BTW ... Thank you guys for all the help.

#46 3 years ago

You need to have the fliptronics board repaired by replacing BR1, if you are not familiar with component replacement, you may want to have someone repair it for you.

#47 3 years ago

So just to double check and confirm
I reconnected J901
Disconnected j104-109
And turned it on
Figuring it was J104 that's the problem
I plugged in the connectors starting at 109 and working till 104
Nothing blew the fuse till 104
Which are the same White and blue wires as j901
So i think it's this connection that is blowing fuse 112

Where do I go from here

#48 3 years ago

Thanks

#49 3 years ago

For repair of the fliptronics board rectifier, check with Borygard here on pinside or http://www.coinopcauldron.com/.

#50 3 years ago
Quoted from Tomandmandy2020:

I plugged in the connectors starting at 109 and working till 104
Nothing blew the fuse till 104
Which are the same White and blue wires as j901
So i think it's this connection that is blowing fuse 112

J901 and J104 are the same connection point to the Fliptronics board, its blowing the fuse because the Bridge rectifier BR1 failed, the only way F112 is blowing with a good BR1 is if you have a bad coil powered off the Fliptronics board AND its over fused to the point that F112 it the smallest fuse in the circuit.

If you want to further isolate it, you can reconnect J901 and J104 and disconnect J907 which will isolate BR1 on the Fliptronics board from the rest of the machine; if F112 blows with only J907 disconnected (it should) then you know for sure that you need to replace BR1.

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