Star Trek (LE)
Stern, 2013
Star Trek (Premium)
Stern, 2013Opinions vary but when discussing problems they fall into design and / or build issues. Things like inadequate GI or higher output power supplies / boards are design problems. Misaligned light tubes and adjustments being off are build errors. It seems that WOZ followers give a wider pass for issues on WOZ and are quick to retort with a Stern comment , pun intended.
Anything man made can break or fail but opinions and what they are based on is funny to read at times.
I believe the thread is titled "Star Trek LE: Second thoughts?"......with a poll attached.....
Sorry, but there are various issues with other pins that go into making that decision or not, including what may be coming up next......Like it not, JJP and PPS are relevant to this discussion and so is what Stern has done on other pins.....its true, anything can break and does...
And it seems as usual, some people have a well placed smart ass comment re Woz, which I also find funny 
But hey, censor away.......
Quoted from iceman44:I believe the thread is titled "Star Trek LE: Second thoughts?"......with a poll attached.....
Sorry, but there are various issues with other pins that go into making that decision or not, including what may be coming up next......Like it not, JJP and PPS are relevant to this discussion and so is what Stern has done on other pins.....its true, anything can break and does...
And it seems as usual, some people have a well placed smart ass comment re Woz, which I also find funny
But hey, censor away.......
Yea we haven't seen this same tired argument 100 times. No one censored away just think it's getting lame to see this pop up in every thread. Not trying to single you out ice just getting tired of that constant debate. I'll shut up about it here and let you guys discuss if you want.
Regarding the thread question, I still have no second thoughts after picking up ST Pro Refinery Edition 001. Such a great looking and playing pin. Big thanks to Gio/Zdoor I'll try and post some pics once I get done playing the heck out of it. 
Early code is much better than most prior Stern releases hope they keep on it if they do this could turn into something great.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Funny really EM's made 50 years ago may outlive these newer games.
Ems will still work a 100 years from now ! The silicon chips in SS games will be long dead .
Quoted from markmon:I am questioning woz build quality. After maybe 600 plays, my shooter lane clear coat is starting to flake off already. The center post came missing a nut to tighten it. The right flipper switch wasn't adjusted correctly and wouldn't trigger the castle upper playfield flipper at all. The light boards are dying once a week. I have two rma boxes from JJP and another will die before these are back in their hands. Of the 30 games in my house, the woz has broken 8 times so far. The game computer bios has also gotten itself into a state where it wouldn't boot anymore and I had to download the motherboard manual from msi website and figure out where the PC case header was at. Then I had to jumper the power button wires to get the game to turn on.
They've redesigned power boards but seem reluctant to send us guys stuck with boards dying weekly new upgrades proactively. They saved 50c by not installing a PC switch button like pinball 2000 even had. Yea. The build quality isn't amazing. I'm tired of hearing how it is. Adding a few pounds to the cabinet doesn't make for a more reliable machine.
If your complaints with stern are build quality, QC, and unfinished code, then why are you considering JJP a solution? My woz had worse QC than my last few sterns. None of them came missing bolts and flippers dead. My woz is down broken more than all my sterns combined. The code on my woz is more unfinished than sterns latest, Star Trek.
Btw, its not just me. Two local ops are having massive problems trying to keep their games running. One tech is green and he calls me every week for help on the woz repairs.
Don't misunderstand my post here. I'm not saying woz sucks. The rules are getting better. With the recent code update, for the first time the game is actually fun now. My game is working as of today. Although it did break down Friday. Anyways, pinball comes with a cost of ownership. If you think JJP is solving all the recent stern complaints, sorry but you're wrong. Its far from the truth.
I'm keeping my woz, I'm full paid on hobbit. I own several sterns including Star Trek, Metallica, and xmen. This is my unbiased opinion and experience.
Interesting.
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:Yea we haven't seen this same tired argument 100 times. No one censored away just think it's getting lame to see this pop up in every thread. Not trying to single you out ice just getting tired of that constant debate. I'll shut up about it here and let you guys discuss if you want.
I agree, its tired and lame and ridiculous but it will probably never end, PPS is next up. congrats on your ST Pro, that Pinball Refinery edition looks great! No further discussion needed on that.......
Quoted from iceman44:I agree, its tired and lame and ridiculous but it will probably never end, PPS is next up
Markmon's post has 7 thumbs up so far. I don't think it was tired and lame and ridiculous, and apparently a lot of other people didn't either.
Quoted from RobT:Interesting.
But PPS MMR surely will be more reliable. 
20 year tech vs this years tech. They don't make me like they used to?
Quoted from RobT:Markmon's post has 7 thumbs up so far. I don't think it was tired and lame and ridiculous, and apparently a lot of other people didn't either.
I wasn't referring to "Markmon's post".........congrats on that, I'll make it 8, whatever.......oh yeah, the "usual crowd"....now you are loving him for that post, you guys really do have a love/hate relationship going, don't you 
Btw, Woz is great, or did I say that already 
Quoted from iceman44:Btw, Woz is great, or did I say that already
Since you are bringing up WOZ in a ST Thread, I think...
WOZ cannot hold a candle next to ST. Besides the rainbow show it does not have anything else but repetitive shots with no flow and cheesy witch heckling call-outs-Agghhhh! Sorry to all the WOZ fans-Only my opinion.
Quoted from markmon:I am questioning woz build quality. After maybe 600 plays, my shooter lane clear coat is starting to flake off already. The center post came missing a nut to tighten it. The right flipper switch wasn't adjusted correctly and wouldn't trigger the castle upper playfield flipper at all. The light boards are dying once a week. I have two rma boxes from JJP and another will die before these are back in their hands. Of the 30 games in my house, the woz has broken 8 times so far. The game computer bios has also gotten itself into a state where it wouldn't boot anymore and I had to download the motherboard manual from msi website and figure out where the PC case header was at. Then I had to jumper the power button wires to get the game to turn on.
They've redesigned power boards but seem reluctant to send us guys stuck with boards dying weekly new upgrades proactively. They saved 50c by not installing a PC switch button like pinball 2000 even had. Yea. The build quality isn't amazing. I'm tired of hearing how it is. Adding a few pounds to the cabinet doesn't make for a more reliable machine.
If your complaints with stern are build quality, QC, and unfinished code, then why are you considering JJP a solution? My woz had worse QC than my last few sterns. None of them came missing bolts and flippers dead. My woz is down broken more than all my sterns combined. The code on my woz is more unfinished than sterns latest, Star Trek.
Btw, its not just me. Two local ops are having massive problems trying to keep their games running. One tech is green and he calls me every week for help on the woz repairs.
Don't misunderstand my post here. I'm not saying woz sucks. The rules are getting better. With the recent code update, for the first time the game is actually fun now. My game is working as of today. Although it did break down Friday. Anyways, pinball comes with a cost of ownership. If you think JJP is solving all the recent stern complaints, sorry but you're wrong. Its far from the truth.
I'm keeping my woz, I'm full paid on hobbit. I own several sterns including Star Trek, Metallica, and xmen. This is my unbiased opinion and experience.
Sorry for the OT but Wow I have had zero issues with my WOZ
Quoted from RobT:Markmon's post has 7 thumbs up so far. I don't think it was tired and lame and ridiculous, and apparently a lot of other people didn't either.
Doesn't mean people aren't getting a bit sick of this constant back and forth in almost every thread. Yes good points can be made but too often it is just a bunch of hating and spitfull bickering.
Quoted from iceman44:I agree, its tired and lame and ridiculous but it will probably never end, PPS is next up. congrats on your ST Pro, that Pinball Refinery edition looks great! No further discussion needed on that.......
Thanks buddy this pin is one of the fastest I've ever played having fun with it. That's what it's all about for me. Playing and enjoying..
Quoted from Concretehardt:Sorry for the OT but Wow I have had zero issues with my WOZ
I hear ya, same here. Best pinball machine I have ever owned. Extremely impressed with the build quality, toys, features and heck even the extra care in packaging the game. There's nothing else like it out there in my opinion.
WOZ out of the box was trouble free for me. I've bought many Stern nib's, all had QC issues, couple were huge problems. While stern was quick to fix them, things like fuses blown before turning it on for the first time and rh flipper mech seized due to too tightly installed were souring to say the least.
Quoted from iceman44:I
Btw, Woz is great, or did I say that already
Problem is nobody gives you any credence when you say it because you've been saying that before you even played it.
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:Doesn't mean people aren't getting a bit sick of this constant back and forth in almost every thread. Yes good points can be made but too often it is just a bunch of hating and spitfull bickering.
Spitfull?
I like it! 
We just had a Star Trek pro at two shows in a row with over 2k in plays and did not even have to take the glass off. Stern's are built to be operated and played. Never had an led board go bad either on a STERN. JUST SAYING
Quoted from musketd:We just had a Star Trek pro at two shows in a row with over 2k in plays and did not even have to take the glass off. Stern's are built to be operated and played. Never had an led board go bad either on a STERN. JUST SAYING
That's great, my Ac/dc premium is holding up great as well under some heavy play, just put some orange super bands on tonight and really like em........
Quoted from musketd:We just had a Star Trek pro at two shows in a row with over 2k in plays and did not even have to take the glass off. Stern's are built to be operated and played. Never had an led board go bad either on a STERN. JUST SAYING
Machines know no brand "just saying"..... they all have issues at some point! The Avengers at my local arcade is broken/out of order more often than most of the 20 year old games beside it. My ac/dc used to spit LED's at me while I was playing doesn't mean it's not a great game. Sh!t happens
Quoted from RobT:Spitfull?
I like it!
Good I aim to please
Quoted from musketd:We just had a Star Trek pro at two shows in a row with over 2k in plays and did not even have to take the glass off. Stern's are built to be operated and played. Never had an led board go bad either on a STERN. JUST SAYING
Thankfully the LED board issue on WOZ has been permanently corrected with the redesigned boards. That was probably the biggest issue going on with the game and from what I heard not a single new redesigned board has failed. WOZ has a lot going on in it too, more then any other pinball machine in recent years, and while this is not a knock against Stern ST has a rocking (pro) / moving (LE) ship toy and that's it in terms of moving toys. Anytime you have multiple interactive toys in a game you will need to make some adjustments.
Quoted from musketd:We just had a Star Trek pro at two shows in a row with over 2k in plays and did not even have to take the glass off. Stern's are built to be operated and played. Never had an led board go bad either on a STERN. JUST SAYING
I had one die on my friends Metallica LE. Just like the WoZ LED boards, it took all the boards out in the chain further. Game was unplayable. Was a real bummer. But I consider this a fluke not the norm.
Quoted from eabundy:I'm catching up on this post, and wondering how a STLE thread turns into a thread all about WOZ? Seems to be happening a lot lately.
Im wondering how it hasn't turned into a shit show about MMR. It probably still will, they almost all do at some point now.
Quoted from markmon:I am questioning woz build quality. After maybe 600 plays, my shooter lane clear coat is starting to flake off already. The center post came missing a nut to tighten it. The right flipper switch wasn't adjusted correctly and wouldn't trigger the castle upper playfield flipper at all. The light boards are dying once a week. I have two rma boxes from JJP and another will die before these are back in their hands. Of the 30 games in my house, the woz has broken 8 times so far. The game computer bios has also gotten itself into a state where it wouldn't boot anymore and I had to download the motherboard manual from msi website and figure out where the PC case header was at. Then I had to jumper the power button wires to get the game to turn on.
They've redesigned power boards but seem reluctant to send us guys stuck with boards dying weekly new upgrades proactively. They saved 50c by not installing a PC switch button like pinball 2000 even had. Yea. The build quality isn't amazing. I'm tired of hearing how it is. Adding a few pounds to the cabinet doesn't make for a more reliable machine.
If your complaints with stern are build quality, QC, and unfinished code, then why are you considering JJP a solution? My woz had worse QC than my last few sterns. None of them came missing bolts and flippers dead. My woz is down broken more than all my sterns combined. The code on my woz is more unfinished than sterns latest, Star Trek.
Btw, its not just me. Two local ops are having massive problems trying to keep their games running. One tech is green and he calls me every week for help on the woz repairs.
Don't misunderstand my post here. I'm not saying woz sucks. The rules are getting better. With the recent code update, for the first time the game is actually fun now. My game is working as of today. Although it did break down Friday. Anyways, pinball comes with a cost of ownership. If you think JJP is solving all the recent stern complaints, sorry but you're wrong. Its far from the truth.
I'm keeping my woz, I'm full paid on hobbit. I own several sterns including Star Trek, Metallica, and xmen. This is my unbiased opinion and experience.
I know this is a ST thread (I really enjoyed the pro that I played -- Thank you markmon for this honest comment. From an owner of JJP and recent Sterns (w/ Hobbit on the way). That's to bad you have had some issues w/ your WOZ, I hope the machine stays playing consistently for you! It's just nice to hear this unbiased truthful comment. Good luck!
Quoted from zod:WOZ is fine if you are a toddler or wear panties but what kind of man buy's a WOZ themed anything, oh yeah a gay one. Jesus, the main song is yellow brick road. Star Trek LE can't wait no second thoughts what so ever. Take WOZ and go put on a dress.
Wow, this is one of the most disgusting and derogatory comments I've ever read on Pinside. Just sad.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Wow, this is one of the most disgusting and derogatory comments I've ever read on Pinside. Just sad.
Gee, So I guess you missed where Gary Stern was Hitler last week huh?
I laughed hard at the WOZ comments. There were no curse words and it was totally UN-PC, completely channeling the "man's man" sense of humor. I support his right to free speech, and your right to be offended.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Wow, this is one of the most disgusting and derogatory comments I've ever read on Pinside. Just sad.
I thought it was kind of funny. Unwarranted? Sure. But funny nonetheless. But don't worry, once the lollipop guild reads this, it will be removed and he'll get a ban warning.
Quoted from zod:WOZ is fine if you are a toddler or wear panties but what kind of man buy's a WOZ themed anything, oh yeah a gay one. Jesus, the main song is yellow brick road. Star Trek LE can't wait no second thoughts what so ever. Take WOZ and go put on a dress.
So can I assume you don't use an iPhone with the pastel-y, rainbow flag-like, feminized or at least metrosexual iOS7??
I watched the PAPA TV vids with Bowen owning the ST pro the other night and at the end thought that he'd summed it up by saying, lots of modes and great flow but only the lights changing colour are the main differences between modes.
Can't wait to see what the LE adds to the equation though but pro looks limited long term wise as it currently stands (mod-less) with warp ramp being the only other thing going on outside of the lights and centre ship shake, more short term "blast" play sessions.
Have to say I have liked the look of the pin, especially PF from the beginning.
I'm anxiously awaiting my LE. I've been playing the Pro in the meantime. After the 1.3 update, the game is really fun to play. I had to tweak my fire button to get it to register. Just had to manually bend the switch a little. It was sitting in the always on position. I thought it was a software issue, but it was physical. Also, I've had the 2 general illumination LEDs pop out on to the play field twice!!?? It's a super easy fix, but a huge drag when it happens mid game. Anybody else having this issue??
Quoted from MapleSyrup:Also, I've had the 2 general illumination LEDs pop out on to the play field twice!!?? It's a super easy fix, but a huge drag when it happens mid game. Anybody else having this issue??
Electrical tape solved the problem but yeah that spotlight popped out often until then.
Also took some tweaking for the fire button.
Also I am getting pissed at the ball hang up or dead spot below the pops.
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:Electrical tape solved the problem
For me a dab of hot glue did it.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Wow, this is one of the most disgusting and derogatory comments I've ever read on Pinside. Just sad.
Now that IS funny.
Quoted from markmon:I am questioning woz build quality. After maybe 600 plays, my shooter lane clear coat is starting to flake off already. The center post came missing a nut to tighten it. The right flipper switch wasn't adjusted correctly and wouldn't trigger the castle upper playfield flipper at all. The light boards are dying once a week. I have two rma boxes from JJP and another will die before these are back in their hands. Of the 30 games in my house, the woz has broken 8 times so far. The game computer bios has also gotten itself into a state where it wouldn't boot anymore and I had to download the motherboard manual from msi website and figure out where the PC case header was at. Then I had to jumper the power button wires to get the game to turn on.
They've redesigned power boards but seem reluctant to send us guys stuck with boards dying weekly new upgrades proactively. They saved 50c by not installing a PC switch button like pinball 2000 even had. Yea. The build quality isn't amazing. I'm tired of hearing how it is. Adding a few pounds to the cabinet doesn't make for a more reliable machine.
If your complaints with stern are build quality, QC, and unfinished code, then why are you considering JJP a solution? My woz had worse QC than my last few sterns. None of them came missing bolts and flippers dead. My woz is down broken more than all my sterns combined. The code on my woz is more unfinished than sterns latest, Star Trek.
Btw, its not just me. Two local ops are having massive problems trying to keep their games running. One tech is green and he calls me every week for help on the woz repairs.
Don't misunderstand my post here. I'm not saying woz sucks. The rules are getting better. With the recent code update, for the first time the game is actually fun now. My game is working as of today. Although it did break down Friday. Anyways, pinball comes with a cost of ownership. If you think JJP is solving all the recent stern complaints, sorry but you're wrong. Its far from the truth.
I'm keeping my woz, I'm full paid on hobbit. I own several sterns including Star Trek, Metallica, and xmen. This is my unbiased opinion and experience.
Is this not just about the point where Stern would just send you a complete new game?
Quoted from zod:WOZ is fine if you are a toddler or wear panties but what kind of man buy's a WOZ themed anything, oh yeah a gay one. Jesus, the main song is yellow brick road. Star Trek LE can't wait no second thoughts what so ever. Take WOZ and go put on a dress.
Meh, say anything you want about it. The game is a blast. If you need your choice in toys and games like pinball machines to reflect your machismo, have at it.
And as for Star Trek, I wanted it to be good. And it was a fun shooter, but as has been said, the same mode over and over with different color lights isn't really something that captures my attention for very long. It just isn't a game that would last in my house.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:Wow, this is one of the most disgusting and derogatory comments I've ever read on Pinside. Just sad.
You're not serious are you?
Quoted from DaveH:And as for Star Trek, I wanted it to be good. And it was a fun shooter, but as has been said, the same mode over and over with different color lights isn't really something that captures my attention for very long. It just isn't a game that would last in my house.
What if Stern added some rainbows to it? Would you like like it then?
I have zero second thoughts about cancelling my LE. Whatever they ship is not well planned out. All this time no video and a no touchy show on the tour. I wish everyone of you preorders well because your hoping the vuk change and hush hush secret laser beams turn out awesome. There is more to worry about then just code. Still think its a awesome looking game and without seeing it in action its hard to be sure of anything but Stern needs to handle there business better or how about completing the "working game" before taking orders or selling us on awesome features you will pull when they dont function as planned.
It certainly looks amazing from a lighting category, bring shades you will need them.
Quoted from PappyBoyington:You're not serious are you?
He's no Ritchie Incognito.
Quoted from starbase:I wish everyone of you preorders well because your hoping the vuk change and hush hush secret laser beams turn out awesome.
I don't give a shit about the "laser beams".
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