Star Trek (Pro)
Stern, 2013You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider eskaybee.
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Wow; its like night and day compared to those other videos. Awesome work on the dots. Sounds and music were top notch. Call outs great. Code appears to need more work. I still don't like that center shot ball lock release, hope the LE offers more there. Seen all I need to see. I'm in!
Rgr; thumbs up or thumbs down? How did you like the game overall, the feel, the experience; meh, average, good, great, better than great? Nice playing btw too!
Quoted from Chambahz:Well I can understand if he's tired of the reused playfield design. I mean, we're seen it on STTNG and SM so there is that.
Doesn't look to be a "snoozefest" though. Not by any means!
I've owned SM twice. This thing is faster and didnt appear to play similar to SM. and theme, call outs, dots, sound package just kicked Spider-Man under my big left boot!
Quoted from karl:"Snoozefest" is one thing (at least it is an opinion) Conspiracy theories about why Stern have not released videos is way out there
Because they're doing professional quality videos with interviews and probably setting up LE footage as well? Just a hunch.
Quoted from RGR:Yeah well I have to say the code for the modes was what I expected. However the flow, GI, LEDs and general look of the game was better than I expected. It was great having a saucer that held the ball everytime however I was again disappointed with the drop.
There is a mode called Vengence where the drop stays down and when you make a shot up the middle the magnet fires the ball back at you. Thats cool. I think it might be in one of the later vids. Another cool feature is the color changing LEDs. If you look closely they change color to let you know that you can finish the mode by hitting that shot.
As for the feel, its the best Stern ever imo. As for code at this stage its alittle below average, especially when there is not a specific warp drive combo shot.
Nice reviews. Thanks for keeping us up to date! The vengeance mode sounds cool. I did notice you shooting for a different color insert in the video and the second time thru noticed it finished the mode, that's a cook feature - wonder if a combo sets up that final shot or if its random?
I know a lot of people say the code is early; I just hope George Gomez lets the programmers work on it once its released! TF, xmen, avengers, and even met comes to mind. How long has met been out without an update? That's Gomez's doing, not Lyman's.
Quoted from Rick432:I think I see it like this:
Complete-code STID > [Complete-code] SM > Partial-code STID
So if Stern supports this and sees it through with the code, STID could be one sweet ride. Owning SM means I need to wait and see, methinks, though.
Totally agree. If i still owned SM i'd definately wait, but There's a reason I don't own SM and its for all the reasons ST brings to the table; theme, sounds, lighting, dots, and music.
Quoted from musketd:I am not impressed at all by those videos; looks like 24 with the modes
If dereck doesn't like it; means I'm gonna love it!! 
Quoted from RGR:Yeah well they took forever to upload. This was last night at 2am. Working today. Will have the third one uploaded tonight. As for additional videos you can check the YouTube channel for more additions or just check this thread for more updates.
I will be taking more videos this Sat. Is there anything you wanted to see more of??? I will set the quality to a lower setting to get in more game time. I will try and get in the first Wiz mode and Vengeance.
I don't need to see anymore. I just gotta hear how much you like it
Quoted from RobT:I actually prefer the higher quality HD video. I could see a big difference in quality between the 1080p video and the 720p video.
+1
Quoted from RGR:Changing the lanes in the jets for skill shot and multipliers..
Is there a super skill shot that you can tell?
Quoted from Snailman:RGR, it looked like the upper flipper ramp/loop was fast enough that it would be difficult to repeat infinitely (ala SR's No Fear jump shot). Do you agree?
And thanks for posting. I'm jealous that I haven't had a chance to play it!
Ya consecutive loop shots look tough and prob gonna take some practice to get down.
EDIT
Hopefully there's a loop champion for the warp ramp or a special mode integrated.
Quoted from mummite:yes! I hope so gotta have a loop and combo champ. Would be nice to have a mode unlock with that shot as well.
Did you notice the combo animation? Thought that was a nice touch and glad sterns going back to making combos relevant in pinball again.
Quoted from Kerry_Richard:I'm still out... I'm really tired of Stern's half baked games. And yes I own many.
Please Stern, just update / improve the last handfull of "great games" you've put out the last 2 years. Then focus on the next great one.
Thank You!
I agree that software needs to step it up. Metallica has donkey licking code right now. Xmen is still unfinished. Avengers has parts of the game not even utilized in the code. And the biggest (only?) drawback I see in ST so far is its straightforward uninventive code.
They need a few more programmers that write the code and not create it. Meaning; the designer and lead programmer should come up with the ideas and the backup programmers do nothing but type their bloody hearts out to implement the ideas.
This is absolutely absurd! I dont go to a Chargers - Raiders game and cheer for both teams. Choose one and stick with it!
...I kid of course 
Go Stern, JJP, Jpop, SkitB, Those European guys, Those other guys, and some more other guys!
SKB
Quoted from magnoliarichj:I'm amazed at how many people pass such judgement on what can be considered the economy version of the game. That's like saying that 4 cyl car sucks. Did you drive the v8 model? No. But I wouldn't like it anyway.
+1 Billlllliiooooon
Quoted from QuarterGrabber:Someone said Congo has it too. And it sounds super cool, can't wait for the LE!
Sounds cool. Hopefully it delivers. Looking at the LE pic again; that added feature makes the left ramp return make a few turns - hopefully that doesn't cause an issue or slow gameplay. (The pro ramp is a straight return). The VuK tube shot to warp ramp also is questionable; it does feed the warp ramp, but how smooth will it be? I'm hoping for the best.
Quoted from RGR:Not sure actually if it is a magnet or a kicker like that of IM... Yeah it throws it back real fast, about the same as that of IM and JP.. l'll get that in the next video..
Please do. That center shot is a concern. It looks so anti climatic when it dribbles out behind the drop target. Hopefully they do something better with it as code becomes polished.
Quoted from swinks:yes the ship is detailed, looks nice
what I saw yesterday was the ball goes up and hit the ship when the drop is down, the target goes up to retain the ball, then the magnet activates and sucks the ball back up to sit on the magnet then a light random flick but also noticed just a release.
I think I might have to go back in for a few more games, anyone want any photos of anything particular on the playfield. Let me know in the next 1hr, though since it is sited I can't look behind the cabinet or inside the cabinet / backbox....
Also sorry RGR, not trying to overtake your video thread, just thought since we are playing and looking at the same game, but can start another thread if people would prefer - though thats all we need is 50 more threads of what we each saw.
How's the playfield artwork look in person? I was very critical of it with the initial promotional video; but the high res photos look detailed and good.
Quoted from RGR:Lol thats what I was thinking... It aint a mode rather a reward... In the next game play video I will complete 3 modes that are not in order to see if it awards something.
Maybe completing 3 modes gives an award and the mini wiz modes haven't been implemented?
Quoted from swinks:oooowww tough one, but based on my 6 games on each (METLE & Trek Pro so not a great comparison)..... lol... don't shoot me just quick thoughts
it must be stated that I am not a trekkie fan nor a Metallica fan so just a balanced personal opinion.
Artwork - Met package looks incredible, The Trek looks great but personally if the translite could have the ship in it instead, it would be so much better and a bit more timeless. Overall - Met just, but if you could put a premium translite in the Pro it would be a tough decision. The Trek is plan in comparison but in person a little old school and still looks good but also allows you to focus on the game.
Lights - pro against pro - Trek no question with the led's and changing colour arrows for missions. Trek wins.
Sound - Met, sorry if they could have a option of having backing music and not songs I could of went for this one but not being a fan of the Heavy Music just not for me. Trek, having not seen the movie I am not swayed but I thought the call outs were good and fitting and sound effects were cool. Overall - Trek wins this for me.
Rules - really not enough time to earn learn and understand so no comment.
Toys - I love wireforms so the Met Pro just beats the Trek Pro but the 3 Trek ramps and the warp one was awesome. As for the ship versus the sparky = ship for me, drops on met are cool but like the difference with Trek with the top right flipper and return to the launch lane, - 50/50 on that which is better - really a personal taste. But compare Premium against Premium - reckon the ramp changes and the additional vuk wireform on Trek. Trek would be my pick.
Flow & Speed - Met was good, but liked Trek better and it is faster, but wasn't a fan of the stopper at the top of the Trek as you could loop from left to right but not right to left as the Met like IM has a up post so at times it could force the ball to the pops. Trek would of been a little more to my liking with a up post to activate at certain times as has a gate there. Trek still for me
Gameplay - based on the minimum plays not being a fan of the group or the show if I had the money I would buy a Trek, just has that want to come back and play again feeling.
Overall, love the bright colours of Met but enjoyed the Trek, I just am not in the position to buy a pin so wouldn't get either but if I was I could see myself getting a Trek if someone said here is the cash go buy a pin from the last few years (AC/DC, Avengers, X-Men, Metallica and Star Trek) The other pins all just had a feature which I was not totally won by but enjoyed them all.
Hope it helps and only a opinion.
Great review. Thanks for that.
Quoted from TomGWI:Or just post here.
Please don't. Make a new thread with (SPOILER) in the title. Thank you drive thru 
Wasn't there a met update in August? Metallica owners sure are demanding - maybe cause Lyman is working on the code? Dam it Jim, he's a programmer not a miracle worker
Quoted from frolic:yes there will be, but not from any company decision, that is pure Lyman caring about it.
Doubt that at this stage of MET. Maybe if it was a year from now like how we got a surprise TRON update. But it's well known Lyman is working on MET and no other game. My guess...big MET update before he begins work on the next stern.
Quoted from sk8ball:It's the standard cut 'n' past Lonnie wiz mode he uses on every single game. Shoot every shot twice then shoot super, repeat. Hopefully just temporary.
Danger Room is bad ass. Hopefully he can do something creative like it for ST.
Maybe it's just me, but I think the premiums look like ass. Good thing there's plenty of LEs to go around.
Quoted from iceman44:I'm putting Gex on speed dial just in case!.......Maybe that explains the extra $700 on the Le?....They'd have to have it on the premium too though wouldn't they? Just a pipe dream I know.....
The extra $700 is the embedded LEDs on the inside and outside of the cab for animated photon blasts; plus custom trim and other bling bling bling. How it looks in the end is another story. <edited for politics>
If you ask me; stern is still far from implementing an LCD into any of their games. Baby steps people.
Quoted from iceman44:That feature for the photon blasts is going to be really cool imo, I was thinking of the extra 700 from recent Met Le to ST Le price increase with premium staying the same, "flipper profit" cut out yes but maybe something else is there on the Le to justify the extra 700, one would think
That's what I was talking about where the extra $700 went. You have your normal LE markup for mirrored bg, custom speaker panel, LE trim and artwork...basically all the usual bling. Then add another $700 for the Photon blast light show inside/outside the cab + a tiny bit extra for custom trim to make it look cool and programming/engineering to get 'er done. I see $700 more from those additions than standard LEs; no?
So basically; do you want the pizzaz and light show the LE has the offer in all its bling with better artwork/trim? Or the standard premium? Yay for choices and decisions as they'll both play and sound the same
Quoted from The_Dude_Abides:Totally disagree with you there IMO the premium looks better than the LE. I'm not too crazy about how the LE looks myself. To each their own guess its good that they have a few models to give us options.
Another reason why the Premium appeals to me on this one. No crazy and IMO uwarranted price increase like the LE. I mean I like lit side armor but not enough to put an extra $1500 on it.
Dam DUDE; we are always on the same page. What happened man...don't let that price thwart your vision sure the LE seems priced high now (see my remarks to iceman for the added bling for the price markup), but if the 2 versions stood side by side and price was not a factor, you can't tell me you would still pick the red with the actor artwork and translight?
Im just poking fun cause we always agree on the same shit. ESP xmen PRO . But after watching the movies, I don't mind actor artwork...the movies were bad ass!!!
Quoted from GaryMartin:By Photon Blast light show do you mean the $2 worth of 5050 LEDs in the cabinet walls? There's a closeup that shows them. Controller and wiring for that shouldn't cost more than about ten bucks, then add in the cost to rout the oblong holes in the cab, cost to make the interior plastic covers and the special outside metal trim.
You've seen it!?!?... or you've seen the photoshopped markup version?
Quoted from Part_3:The entire thing, not just the wizard mode, can be changed, updated, improved through software. I'm liking what I'm seeing so far.
Yea...but will it turn into bland TF 'Roll out/AHM' wizard mode or awesomeness Xmen Danger Room? Or perhaps a little of both with Assault on the Heli-Carrier? Or worse....and just say "wizard mode' Yay for wizard mode...are there wizards in star trek?
Quoted from Part_3:It will get a 2.0 Lyman polish that will knock our socks off!
Uh....I think we have better odds of getting an LCD than that
Quoted from 320Gigabytes:I would still like to know what the "Captain's Chair" mode is. It's emblazoned on the play field, heck, it's even listed on the flyer, but it's not in any of the videos. Can anyone shed some light on this?
Welcome to the world of new games. As with all new games; early code. Hasn't been implemented yet. The fact that its embedded on the pf and in the flyer tells me they have ideas for it. But has yet to be implemented. And that's one of the questions for potential buyers..how long will it take them to get the code right on this game? Will it be abandoned like so many other sterns? (Xmen, TF, wof, etc...)
Quoted from QuarterGrabber:Getting back to Star Trek, I'm stoked! I think this thread will explode next week because the LE is due for delivery Oct. 16th I was told by my distributor. Anyone have confirmed info on when the LE's will be available to purchase???
They're available for purchase now, no?
Quoted from RobT:Yes, you can purchase the LE now. You won't get it until Stern actually makes them, but you can definitely order it now.
Maybe they do it different in Canada..............eh?
Quoted from Asylum:No bullshit brother??
Oh snap! Rob just tossed the food on the floor. Haters be coming in here soon to feed!
I've heard that they scratched the VuK shot to the warp ramp due to reliability issues. I hear they're replacing it with something else and also adding another feature to the LEs (prem too?). But you didn't hear that from me 
Quoted from coasterguy:Its a joke. Not true.
If it is true, it just goes to show how much of a perfectionist Steve Ritchie is and how much he cares about his games. How many other LEs didnt get redesigned when they probably should have? I can think of 3 off the bat.
Quoted from mechslave:Yeah, actually, that's what I'm saying. It may in fact be "very difficult" to loop it more than 2x. I know I played the same machine and couldn't loop it more than twice. That wasn't my focus and I only played it twice, but it is a very fast loop return.
I actually think of all the upper orbits that GNR is probably the toughest to loop in a row. The ID4 upper orbit might be the easiest, as I used to be able to just nail that over and over, maybe even 9+ times in a row. The ST ramp loop keeps the ball very fast but it does land smooth, so that's a key. The Black Rose drop wasn't as smooth and used to slow the ball down just enough to allow never-ending consistency. The ST ramp entry is smoother and especially on a new game will require that youthful catlike reflex zone until the ramp and clear get a little worn in, I'm guessing.
Every return shot in ST blisters back at you. The ramps are Rolling Stones/JMn fast, and like those games can be backhand looped over and over again, far easier than ACDC backhand ramp repetition.
The pace of those shots does concern me, esp with so much code to go. The rules and coding need to be mindful of the pace of the shots and the returns, especially to make an enjoyable multiball. That's one of the reasons I wasn't crazy about JMn's playfield.... almost too fast and multiball play was not that enjoyable because you can't put any of the balls out of your way. You hit a shot - BAM- back on you, another shot -BAM, so you end up with 3/4 balls at the flippers at any given time and it just clogs up the playfield. JMn is much more enjoyable to shoot in single ball play.
LOTR has a very average, recycled, clunky layout... but either through pure luck or Keith's coding, the multiball play is just brilliant because it ended up with the absolute perfect ball staggering for euphoric multiball play. Maybe one of the best multiball games ever.
That's the only thing that would worry me about the ST ramp designs is how enjoyable the multiball play will be. The main concern is of course the rules and code, not only how interesting and complete they eventually are, but how well the rules/code actually merges with the playfield's shot pacing and flow. Big concern considering they aren't going to have a great pinball player coding this one...
That's one really good thing about gomezs latest designs (TF and AVLE) the mb's on those games are a blast! Especially avengers. I really like xmen; but the mb's aren't nearly as fun for pretty much the reasons you stated. ACDC is a fast game with quick returns and those mb's are fun as heck. ST should have fun mb's cause the pops location, the center shot, and the VuK shot will add a couple free seconds during the mayhem. Maybe?
You guys are forgetting one detail on the changed VuK design; Steve is also adding a design to the machine that is not on the matrix page *subject to change*. I don't want to ruin any surprises; but don't get your pantys in a bunch over this just yet.
Quoted from DCfoodfreak:Hmmm, how long to put this game out. Now a quick redesign and programming. That should go well...
Way better than producing it and just going with it like so many recent titles *cough* TF IH pf *cough* xmen wolverine *cough* avengers everything
Quoted from tbanthony:"Tweaking" takes care of Avengers just fine. That's different than a ball kicker that doesn't have enough oomph to work reliably. That's a true design problem that could be difficult to "tweak", although you'd think you could solve it with a more powerful solenoid, etc. I mean the NBA game shoots a ball across part of the playfield and they can't make this work?
I dunno...I think they could have done a little better with hulk. Right now the most 'reliable' tweak done for it is wire the tournament button to the solenoid. A little extra time in the design phase would have resolved this.
Quoted from PappyBoyington:I agree with you but I doubt they will do anything more than fixing the problem. I would love to see something added though.
I heard they will be adding a feature to make up for it. I don't know if it will be an LE only feature or not. And from what I heard, its not a design change to the layout persay, but something to function more within the rules to indicate to the player what's happening as they 'battle' their way throughout the game.
Quoted from Part_3:But I was quoting Eskaybee......
I said that because its not a playfield redesign.
Quoted from sk8ball:Stop "Shielding" your information
ROFL! I see what you did there 
Quoted from QuarterGrabber:If it goes to the left flipper that's stupid, there's no need for the VUK at all then, the scoop returns it there. If they did change the VUK to return to the left flipper I will cancel my LE order.
You might as well as cancel then. The new VuK will be a smoother/better return than the pro. Some of the videos I've seen, the pro return kick doesn't make it into the outlane but bounced to the flipper. Not very smooth. You're also forgetting that there are plans to add a feature. Whether they do it or not is still to be determined.
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