I'm sure a lot of that code is heavily re-used from previous titles. Rinse, lather, repeat...

Yet they can never seem to finish it? I don't get it?

Third video coming soon??

so uuhhmmmm.... anymore videos?

Is the DMD in the Pro red?

Thanks for the review Swinks! I am looking forward to my first plays on a Pro soon. It's nice to see a non trek fan perspective.

I mentioned this in the MET thread but figured I chime in again with it.

I sold 4 games in last 30-60 days so space/money is on my side.

Unfortunately nothing NIB is finished... Anywhere.

This means Stern's new incomplete games are now competing with their old completed games.

That's bad business when your old sales take away your new sales. Only way to fix that is to roll out legit games from the start & tidy up the stuff out there to rebuild buyer confidence.

Lyman should be Creative Software Director for Stern (he 'gets' pinball!), and enough programmers assigned to code/implement/debug/update the concepts he comes up with for each game (no small task!), on a reasonable release schedule. Pretty sure it will never happen, but to me it sounds like it would improve the perceived quality of Stern's releases.

I could be wrong of course, but i can't shake the feeling Stern doesn't truly understand how important Lyman really is for them. Like StevenP says, he gets us. Why he isn't head of software instead of Lonny is beyond me. Lonny seems te run on automatic, and produces only standard fare code. I'm no insider, so this is purely my opinion.

What's there in Metallica now is really good, but I agree that more is needed (heck, just give us a Mystery Hole release!). I share your fear about ST code, but I'll wait for the PinballNews detailed review before I pass judgement.

So there is no one that has hacked the Sam system and able to create rule sets and programming for existing games ?

I love the sounds effects in this game along with the callouts. The light show in the Premiums and LEs are going to be incredible. I really like the jackpot callouts. I wonder if the upkicker in the Premiums and LEs will kick the ball to the right upper flipper?

In the last video I noticed that the destroy the drill two and three didn't have any animations. Perhaps they are working on them so they will be different than the first level?
We will see. I really hope so but not counting on it.

I have never had a problem getting my games without complete code. I would rather get the game sooner then wait for the code. I like getting 3-4 games a year to choose from rather than two. Plus It's really easy to update the code. Yes, in a perfect world it would be best to get all games with complete code but that's not going to happen. It's the way business is done with Stern AND JJP. If we waited to JJP to finish the code, we would be waiting until next year before they even start shipping. I say ship the game and give us updates as they come.

I believe the NIB MB on E-bay may be finished.

Except you have no warranty it will ever be finished (see WoF for example). And some games were sent with infamous code. X-men for example. It's indecent to sell games in that condition.

OK for later updates. Not asking for perfection at first sight (and feedback from players may help!). But at least give something to those buying the previous Stern (Metallica) before sending the next. Otherwise this is sending a bad signal to Stern (you can milk us...).

I like the way WoZ code is improving. At least JJP will have a mature product when The Hobbit comes.

If you had the option of getting The Hobbit now with unfinished code, would you take it? The only difference between Stern and JJP is that you get to play your new Stern while they're working on the code.

Point taken; you have to be careful not to get stuck with an "orphan".

Huh? WOZ is now in people's homes. Isn't JJP "working on the code"? Both JJP and Stern are guilty of building machines with incomplete code. Not seeing a difference here.

You never have a "warranty" that a game's software will be "finished." I've never seen one. Nor have I seen a definition of what "finished software" in a pinball machine means. You can *always* dd stuff to any modern pin's software if you wanted to.

A warranty or a guarantee? With Stern now advertising 6 major and 18 mini modes in this game, I do not see how they cannot complete the code at some point. Otherwise, it's blatant false advertising. There would be repercussions.

I wish we could call a truce. I am so very tired of reading anti-Stern and anti-JJP posts on Pinside. There are days when it makes me want to drop out of the social side of pinball entirely. In fact, both companies have done some things exceedingly well, and both need to learn from each other. It is all to our benefit as consumers that there is now competition. Surely, one reason for the high expectations for Star Trek was the belief on the part of many that Stern would elevate its game in response to WOZ. At the same time, Stern's ability to churn out games and to keep to a schedule (with games if not with code) should put pressure on JJP to improve its business model (etc.).

For the record, I have a WOZ and have ordered Star Trek. I expect to enjoy both of those pins, valuing each for what it is. I don't see this as an either/or. I appreciate both companies but also think that both companies must continue to improve. Hopefully, competition will encourage that to happen.

End of rant. Thanks for listening.

You need to compare Star Trek to Hobbit. If I buy a ST, it's in my basement a few weeks later. If I put my money down on Hobbit, I'm waiting at least another year before it shows up in my house (and yes, the code will probably continue to mature after delivery). Now do you see the difference? Or compare ACDC to WOZ.

Good luck with that.
All you can do is take comfort in the fact that you're open minded enough to enjoy pins from both companies. Most people on this site can only look forward to new releases from one company!

Yeah, it won't continue much longer--that is, unless I sell several of my other pins. I am right on the edge of being priced out of this market. I probably will be in the next go around. Nothing wrong with buying older pins, though. NIB is a considerable luxury.

I think you guys confuse a lot of people upset with what they see in the ST unveiling with a more general "Stern bashing". I love so many Stern games .. but I'm more than frustrated with what I see in ST (both in the game and Stern's pricing.) In no way do I like JJP more than Stern ... I just want to see both companies making awesome games and (personally) ST has left me underwhelmed.

Unfortunately the comparison of every single Stern release to WOZ has poisoned the well for me. I don't begrudge WOZzers their fun, but there's nothing about the JJP platform that I like. I hate the starting price, hate the too-big LCD, hate the poor GI lighting and Vegas-style insert lighting, hate the mini-playfields that gobble up all the flow, and hate the theme. But most of all I hate JJP fans constantly saying that WOZ is forcing Stern to "up their game". And that will be my last comment ever on JJP - I promise! Because I'm getting tired of the bickering too.

Exactly Cham! The Woz/JJP hatred/jealousy is mind boggling to me. Its the people like myself and so many others that have purchased BOTH companies that seem to "get it". I happen to love Woz coming, made a great decision there for me and am excited about the advancement of pinball AND I will be buying pins like Ac/dc, Nib, (already have Lotr le nib, Wpt and SM) when all the code and such is finished..........IF JJP does the whole "code thing" again with the Hobbit then I will do the same thing there on future pins and wait it out until its mostly done......

My feeling, and it may be wrong, who knows, is that on pin #2, after they have had the opportunity to fix issues, establish production, code platform, etc. we are going to see a totally different outcome on #2, maybe not, we'll see, again, its what I expect from them as a consumer on the next one.......what is Stern's excuse? "The only maker of real pinball machines for the last decade plus"........

People that want to crap all over Woz and JJP and then don't demand more from Stern? Go figure, lets see how it all plays out.............

Thanks, Swampfire. I get it. Wishing you good times with the pins you do love.

That's your problem then.....maybe you should let go of the "hatred"

Great thought, absolutely agree. I have both purchased as well.

There is really no point in trying to reason with the fanatics or try and explain it........If you are a fanatic then you just don't get the "underwhelmed" part....but hey, that's where the Le sales or lack thereof will tell the ultimate story...people will vote with their wallets, that simple.....

I'm amazed at how many people pass such judgement on what can be considered the economy version of the game. That's like saying that 4 cyl car sucks. Did you drive the v8 model? No. But I wouldn't like it anyway.

This is absolutely absurd! I dont go to a Chargers - Raiders game and cheer for both teams. Choose one and stick with it!

...I kid of course
Go Stern, JJP, Jpop, SkitB, Those European guys, Those other guys, and some more other guys!

SKB

+1 Billlllliiooooon

On the features Matrix it says:

"2-Way Deflector Ball Eject/ VUK with Wireform Tube"

for the premiums/LE's. Does this mean it can deflect the ball back towards the flippers just like the Pro PLUS it can ALSO shoot it up the warp ramp as well??

You can't give a pass to one and not the other, otherwise you look biased. Both companies are shipping out games with incomplete code. I would be willing to bet that TH will be incomplete when it ships too. Keith can only do so much.

Both companies are trying their best. So far it's working just fine for them.

IMHO you are part of the problem. Not every thread needs to become a WOZ thread.

I'm in the same boat. It would be great if we got both games in November.

That would be cool - Congo has this feature.

That is what I take it to mean but who knows. I wish they provided more in depth feature descriptions.

I believe that is exactly what it does. We won't know the rules of how it will determine which way to shoot it, but another way to hit that warp ramp and get the ball to the upper flipper is fine by me!

If it's true then this would be the first pinball machine to do this (as far as I know, I'm sure somebody will correct me if I'm wrong). It's sounds like a cool feature.

Someone said Congo has it too. And it sounds super cool, can't wait for the LE!

I had a question about the modes if they are just repeats drill I, II and III. Like you see in the video for the drill mission. I asked a good source and this was the answer. Pretty happy with the response as I see this game having a ton of unique modes and gameplay when its all done code wise.

"No repeats! Chapters I, II, and III are sequential and make up a Mission story line. Different dots, speech calls, the works. Some of the III's are not finished, but are functional. The requirements for each of the 18 Missions are different and will evolve over updates as soon as we can get them done."

This game is going to ROCK when its all done. The team is VERY confident in getting the games code to it's full potential so rest assured ST is going to be another top STERN pin!

It's also nice to see some story progression with the modes. That is one thing I really liked about ST:TNG the modes are little story's that the player plays through while the wizard mode is the high level story theme of the entire game.

The rule card says if you get three missions completed in a line light the "Captains Chair" for mini wizards modes. Does anybody know what happens in the mini wizard modes? Also what happens in the "Captains Chair" wizard mode?

This was my biggest concern about the warp ramp dropping the ball onto the Playfield and not making a smooth transition. In theory the shot sounds great and would be awesome if you could keep nailing over and over like Getaway and No fear. I had a feeling the transition would cause the ball to bounce around and was hoping I was wrong, but unfortunately RGR confirmed it.

Sounds cool. Hopefully it delivers. Looking at the LE pic again; that added feature makes the left ramp return make a few turns - hopefully that doesn't cause an issue or slow gameplay. (The pro ramp is a straight return). The VuK tube shot to warp ramp also is questionable; it does feed the warp ramp, but how smooth will it be? I'm hoping for the best.

very cool.

Here is how I see the games mode progressions.

Nero = 3X unique progressive modes includes new dots SFX and rules per mode stage I, II or III
Destroy the Drill = 3X unique modes
Klingon Battle = 3X unique modes
Prime Directive = 3X unique modes
Space Jump = 3X unique modes
Save the Enterprise = 3X unique modes

Total = 18

Mini-Wizard modes = 3X complete a row of 3 to unlock mini-wizard mode. Each mode is unique to which row is unlocked.

Total = 3 mini wizard mode

FINAL Wizard mode = unlocks when all 3 other mini-wizard modes are complete and is the final wizard mode it’s a special mode to complete the game.

Total = 1 Final EPIC wizard mode

If true then this is great news. Looking better and better.

Same reason that an ace mechanic is not necessarily the best garage owner.