(Topic ID: 118694)

Star Pool keeps resetting when points are scored

By Sonora70

7 years ago


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  • 34 posts
  • 2 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by Chrisbee
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#1 7 years ago

My Williams Star Pool was playing really well. Now for some reason every time the spinner is hit then another 10 point target is hit it completely resets the machine back to 0 and the ball release coil reacts as if a new game is starting. The spinner has to actually be spinning when this occurs. I can't get it to do the same thing while other targets are being activated. Any help???? Thanks.

#2 7 years ago

The only way to get the scores to go back to zero is to energise the Reset RE.
To energise the reset RE the Game Over RE needs to trip. When it happens check to see what position the game over relay is in. It has a mechanical latch, see if it is tripped after the event.

#3 7 years ago

New development...maybe related?

I've noticed that the 100 point reel is not being activated by the 10 point reel as it should. I manually pressed the 10 point relay and the 100 relay never moves. I tried this on all four players and the results are the same. It simply keeps moving through 10's and never causes the 100 pt reel to move.

I tested continuity across the switch on the 10 point relay that pulses the 100 point relay and I'm getting continuity when the switch closes. Anyone know the next step in tracking down the reason the 100 point relay is not getting pulsed?

#4 7 years ago

I'm starting to believe there is a short and it has something to do with the 10 point relay......

Here's what's happening: (remember this thing was working great 2 days ago)
Player number 1, score reel will not energize the 100 pt reel when on the 9 switch. I've clean the switches and check to see that they are working correctly, still just keeps giving 10 points and not scoring up to 100.

Player number 2, same as player 1 except will finally begin scoring up. After a few rotations of the scoring reel, it will finally energize the 100 pt score reel.

Player 3, works correctly. When 10 pt score reel gets to nine switch, it energizes the 100 pt reel as it should.

Player 4, same as player 3.

Biggest problem.......when the spinner is activated and the 50 pt switch is hit it resets the machine. Or, if any other target is hit that gives multiple pulses and then another is hit before it completes it pulses the machine resets. Resets everything back to zero for all 4 players and also tries to kick out a ball. The only thing that doesn't happen is it does not advance to the next ball......so not doing a full reset I guess. Again....this only happens when the 10pt relay is involved. To try to make this less confusing, basically any time there is a switch hit that gives multiple points in 10's, there is a chance the machine is going to reset.

Not sure if all this is clear. I'm in a holding pattern....not sure my next direction. All tips / advice is appreciated. Hoping someone can relate to some of this. Thanks.

#5 7 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

When it happens check to see what position the game over relay is in. It has a mechanical latch, see if it is tripped after the event.

What is the answer to this Q? To get the score reels to reset, we need to energies the reset RE.

#6 7 years ago

The game over relay stays pulled in......does not change during the reset.

Quoted from Chrisbee:What is the answer to this Q? To get the score reels to reset, we need to energies the reset RE.

The game over relay stays pulled in......does not change during the reset.

#7 7 years ago

Thanks and Thanks, LOL.

With the play field up, can you simulate the issue, see if the reset RE is energising.
We need more information to pin point your problem.

#8 7 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

Thanks and Thanks, LOL.
With the play field up, can you simulate the issue, see if the reset RE is energising.
We need more information to pin point your problem.

Just went down and simulated it several times with the playfield up. The reset relay is energizing. I did notice that it did not do it everytime, however it did reset probably 8 out of 10 times when I simulated it. Maybe more than that.

#9 7 years ago

I would first check and adjust the reset RE hold SW.
help-112.jpg

#10 7 years ago

Will do. I'll report back after work today.

#11 7 years ago

Update. I cleaned and checked A switch on the reset relay. No change. What would be the next "go to"? What would be causing the relay to energize just because (2) point switches are hit at the same time (or time it takes the ball to travel from one to the other). Again, it only resets if the score reels are still turning when the ball hits the next switch.

#12 7 years ago

That’s all a bit odd, to be sure, put a piece of paper or card in the SW above (Reset RE SW “A”) and see if the issue still occurs.

Below is the schematic snippet for the reset RE, the red ring is the SW we are checking. If putting a piece of card to stop the contacts contacting does not stop the Reset RE energising, then the only other path is through two SW, one on the Coin RE the other on the Gameover RE ( the blue line).

Quoted from Sonora70:

Again, it only resets if the score reels are still turning when the ball hits the next switch.

I’m thinking the contactrs of the hold SW on the reset RE is set to close and vibration from something else is causing the contacts to close, once closed they will stay closed till the reset is complete. Then as soon as the score motor runs, the score reels will reset.

help-915.jpg

#13 7 years ago
Quoted from Sonora70:

it only resets if the score reels are still turning when the ball hits the next switch.

I suspect this is true, cos you need the Scr Motor to run for the reels to reset.

#14 7 years ago

Did the test. With the card in the switch, the machine acts really strange, gives points at the 1000 and even the 10,000 reel. Acts like it trying to do weird things....score reels jump. Seems like its still trying to reset.

#15 7 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

I suspect this is true, cos you need the Scr Motor to run for the reels to reset.

Forgot to say, the reset relay is still getting energized.

#16 7 years ago

Odd stuff. How about putting a bit of card in one of the other Relays, say GO RE and see if we still energise the Reset RE.
Blue line on above schematic.
What is allowing the Reset RE to energise???

Maybe time for some PIC.Please. One of the reset RE, included the label.

#17 7 years ago

I'll get to it this afternoon after work. Update to come. Thanks!

#18 7 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

Odd stuff. How about putting a bit of card in one of the other Relays, say GO RE and see if we still energise the Reset RE.
Blue line on above schematic.
What is allowing the Reset RE to energise???
Maybe time for some PIC.Please. One of the reset RE, included the label.

I'll load pictures of the reset RE, GO relay, and the coin relay. Anything else?

#19 7 years ago
Quoted from Sonora70:

I'll load pictures of the reset RE, GO relay, and the coin relay. Anything else?

I placed a piece of paper in switch C on the game over relay and tested....no change. I then took the paper out and placed it in switch B of the coin relay. Again, no change.

Somehow that reset relay is getting energized to reset the machine. Could it be a switch on the scoring motor since it is occurring when the scoring motor is running? Thanks.

#20 7 years ago

Starpool reset relay.jpgStarpool coin relay.jpgStarpool GO relay.jpg

#21 7 years ago

Just for clarity, when the score resets, is it also resetting the ball count unit, player units ETC?

Start a new game, score 10 points and let the ball drain, then play the 2nd ball and simulate the issue. When the score resets, does the game go back to single player, ball one?

What I’m asking here is, does the score only reset or is the game resetting completely?

everything looks fine from the pictures above.

So from all the thing we have done so far, we are left with only a few possibility’s, one the game is actually resetting, this mean the issue may be elsewhere and two, the insulation on the SW stack of the reset RE is “Iffy”. Right now I’m thinking option one.

When you simulating the issue, try and see what else is happening, like does the GO RE trip or the Coin RE energise, anything else!!

#22 7 years ago

Again for clarity, let me tell you what I think you have said, maybe I’m missing something here.

When you play a game, and you make the spinner spin, then hit another target (one that will start the score motor) the score reset to zero, and the game continues.

This also happens when you place a piece of card in the SWs that allow power to the Reset RE Coil.
EG –SW “A” on the Reset RE or SW “C” on the GO RE and /or SW “B” on the Coin RE.

#23 7 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

Again for clarity, let me tell you what I think you have said, maybe I’m missing something here.
When you play a game, and you make the spinner spin, then hit another target (one that will start the score motor) the score reset to zero, and the game continues.
This also happens when you place a piece of card in the SWs that allow power to the Reset RE Coil.
EG –SW “A” on the Reset RE or SW “C” on the GO RE and /or SW “B” on the Coin RE.

That is correct. In fact, if I hit the switch on the side that pulses 50 points and then hit a roll over switch near the ball drain that pulses 30 points, the game resets as well. Basically, anytime a 10 point switch that is hit and pulses along with another 10 points switch being hit while the first is still pulsing, it resets. I first noticed it after hitting the spinner as if you hit the spinner hard it will spin several times pulsing the 10 point switch several times. I had hit the spinner then it hit the pulsing 10 point switch on the side. I know I may be confusing you.

The ball count does not change and neither does the player. It just resets the scoring reels to 0 and tries to kick out another ball.

#24 7 years ago

Sounds like anything that starts the Scr Motor is the problem. So if you hit something that scores a multiply of ten eg 50, 30 5000 the machine resets?

Do you have a DMM?

#25 7 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

Sounds like anything that starts the Scr Motor is the problem. So if you hit something that scores a multiply of ten eg 50, 30 5000 the machine resets?
Do you have a DMM?

Yes, if I hit something that scores a multiply of ten and hit another switch that scores a multiply of ten before the first is finished scoring, it resets. Does not change the ball count or the player 1, so not a compete reset.

yes, I have a DMM.

#26 7 years ago

With the machine off, see if there is continuity from the black wire on reset RE sw "A" and the other wire on saw "A", and then black wire and the switch stack bolts.

#27 7 years ago

I'm using my phone, excuse the autocorrect.

#28 7 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

With the machine off, see if there is continuity from the black wire on reset RE sw "A" and the other wire on saw "A", and then black wire and the switch stack bolts.

Yes I am getting continuity between the black wire and the other wire on switch A. No continuity from the black wire to the switch stack bolts.

One thing that's confusing to me about pinballs, seems like you get continuity everywhere. I checked continuity across the entire relay with the black wire and I seem to get continuity on all of them. I also did the same thing on a couple other relays with the same results.

#29 7 years ago

Problem solved..........one of the switches on the score motor was out of adjustment. Thanks for all of the tips and help!

#30 7 years ago
Quoted from Sonora70:

One thing that's confusing to me about pinballs, seems like you get continuity everywhere.

Best to use Ohms on the meter than continuity. Issue with measuring is that you are often measuring the transformer secondary winding. Which SW on the Score motor was it?

#31 7 years ago
Quoted from Chrisbee:

Best to use Ohms on the meter than continuity. Issue with measuring is that you are often measuring the transformer secondary winding. Which SW on the Score motor was it?

I placed a piece of paper between the bottom 2 leafs on the 4 switch stack on the impulse side (second from the end) The paper was actually between the base leaf and the leaf above it. I tried to recreate the problem and it worked as it should. I believe the leaf above the base leaf was hitting on a rivet on the base leaf. I took the entire stack off and adjusted the base leaf. Could also have been that I ensured all the switches were straight when I reinstalled them. (possibility that 2 of the solders could have been touching). But at any rate, the paper test took me to the area that it was occurring.

#32 7 years ago

I’m glad you have solved the problem. Just looking at the schematic, I’m at a lost on how the bottom SW (“A”) on the Scr Motor could reset the score reels.
But there you go, now enjoy that machine.

help-534.jpg

#33 7 years ago

Yeah, not sure either....remember it was the bottom leaf of the bottom switch that I believe was making contact with the rivet on the base leaf. I wasn't smart enough to figure it out, I was advised to do the paper test.

#34 7 years ago

The paper test is a great idea.

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