(Topic ID: 140802)

Standards & Expectations..

By Coyote

8 years ago


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    #1 8 years ago

    So while on a work trip up here to Minneapolis, I decided to stop by the 'Brainbrook Entertainment Center' (https://pinside.com/pinball/map/where-to-play/blainbrook-entertainment-center-minneapolis-mn-united-states).

    I figured that since they had so many pins, it can't be half-bad!

    Well, other than the selection, I saw no reason to go back there, and on the drive back to the hotel, I thought about it.

    Perhaps my standards are too high now-a-days? Or perhaps over the last 20 years, route / maintainers' standards have dropped?

    Here's what I found -
    At 8pm on a Monday night, the bowling alleys were sold out. So it was busy. The arcade had a few people in there, mostly playing pool - I walk in, and all but perhaps 5 games are turned off. Now, a dark and quiet arcade is NOT really a welcoming thing, honestly, and this is the first knock.

    I played the following games - granted, I did not play ALL of them, and perhaps I just had bad luck choosing my games, but I'll summarize some points at the end -
    Monster Bash - Color DMD, and inserts were LEDed. The game was pretty functional, except it was set at $1 / play. No complaints other than the price (again, used in summary below..) There was a dot on the credit.
    White Water - Inserts were LEDed, and also had a credit dot. Game played okay, except when shot just right (straight on, ball at highest speed), several shots wouldn't register. Games were $.75. No credit bonus.
    Attack From Mars - Color DMD, inserts were LEDed poorly. By poorly - some were extremely dim (likely a flex or 90' LED was needed, and not used). I think the smaller ships had the LED kit as well, not sure. Credit dot, but seemed to play okay. Another $1/game, I believe. Credit dot. Had some rubbers on the posts that caused the ball to bounce UP OFF THE PLAYFIELD when they were hit.
    Family Guy - $.75 / game, there was a decal on the pricing card that said 'Death Deactivated on purpose.'. .. Really? Game seemed to play okay, except spinner shot was not sensitive, one slingshot was out as well.
    Whirlwind - Poor, poor thing. Also LEDed horribly. Couldn't see half the inserts. Diverter for LOCK was broken, so once you got Lock Lit, you couldn't do anything else in the game. $.50/game
    Road Show - $.75 / game, Ted's mouth stuck open, Red's eyes were.. uhm.. strange, and Red shot wasn't registering. On the plus side, Reply set VERY LOW. Also LEDed.
    High Speed - Weak flippers, LEDed badly.

    ALL GAMES were leveled HORRIBLY. Some were very steep (Monster Bash), and some were very shallow (Family Guy), and ALL were not even side-to-side. (Hell, in Getaway, it was leaning SO MUCH that I got a ball stuck against a post up above the upper right flipper. I had to jar the machine to get it to roll out.) LEDs were horrible - no flexes were used, so in locations where a 90' should have been used, you could barely see the light lit. In other cases (like Family Guy and the Spinner insert), one socket was a bulb, with a LED flasher, which caused a really odd white / warm white appearance.

    Now, with the exception of the lock diverter in Whirlwind, I could easily overlook the issues in these games - independantly.

    However, when obvious money has been put into the games ($400 ColorDMD, $200 in LEDs..), I would seriously expect to be able to spend a few moments to make sure the games were 100%. In fact, cut the LEDs and ColorDMD, and keep the price at the original level. Apparently, the operator knows enough to go into the menu to adjust pricing, but can't afford to adjust anything else - like the Match on Road Show (.. there was none.), or the Death on Family Guy (I'm not sure how it was 'disabled', but you could hear the coil firing to try and raise the center post).

    All in all, for me, the ONLY draw and reason to go would be the amount of games there. Because of the condition, I didn't stay long. I HAVE BEEN in a situation where I had 100+ games (including videos & redemption) I was looking out for, and when I did, I made d@mn sure that they were working as intended, because I felt like my reputation was on the line.

    Am I out of line for thinking this? Are gizmos (ColorDMD, LEDs) more important than keeping a game without issues? Or am I holding my standards too high?

    #2 8 years ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    Whirlwind - Poor, poor thing. Also LEDed horribly. Couldn't see half the inserts. Diverter for LOCK was broken, so once you got Lock Lit, you couldn't do anything else in the game. $.50/game

    that was broken 3 (?) years ago when i went. i wonder if it ever got fixed? it must have.

    #3 8 years ago
    Quoted from davewtf:

    that was broken 3 (?) years ago when i went. i wonder if it ever got fixed? it must have.

    You'd be surprised I would assume, dude. If they haven't fixed it already it's not too out of the question that they'd let it sit that long. (Maybe not many have mentioned it, either. I don't think OP did. It's kindness, but then again nothing gets fixed at these places, either.)

    #4 8 years ago
    Quoted from Otaku:

    but then again nothing gets fixed at these places, either

    That's not entirely true.

    LTG : )

    #5 8 years ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    Because of the condition, I didn't stay long.

    Was someone there to greet you when you entered. Help you with problems or questions. Refund your money if a game didn't work. Thank you for your patronage when you left ?

    LTG : )

    #7 8 years ago

    I think the games at Blainbrook aren't owned by any one individual, so they don't all receive the same amount of attention.

    If you want some really nice-maintained games, head on out to Sunray Lanes in Woodbury and Mortimers in Minneapolis.

    #8 8 years ago
    Quoted from roffels:

    I think the games at Blainbrook aren't owned by any one individual, so they don't all receive the same amount of attention.

    I wondered this myself.

    Quoted from Coyote:

    Perhaps my standards are too high now-a-days? Or perhaps over the last 20 years, route / maintainers' standards have dropped?

    I'd say your right in cataloging the problems, but I'd say operators' standards haven't dropped. I remember when I was younger and it was more common to see arcade games around, if something was wrong with a game you were just out of that quarter. It's just a case where some ops are better at taking care of their games than others. Also, I know I'm more knowledgeable now than I was then, so I can see problems with games. Back then I probably just thought it was a feature.

    I know one thing. I love seeing games on location, no matter what condition. I'll put quarters in them and if they don't work then I know better for next time.

    #9 8 years ago
    Quoted from dmbjunky:

    I remember when I was younger and it was more common to see arcade games around, if something was wrong with a game you were just out of that quarter.

    That was never the case here.

    LTG : )

    #10 8 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    Was someone there to greet you when you entered. Help you with problems or questions. Refund your money if a game didn't work. Thank you for your patronage when you left ?
    LTG : )

    Not that I knew of. But inn also not sure what that gfs to do with the section of my OP you quoted.

    Quoted from dmbjunky:

    I wondered this myself.

    I'd say your right in cataloging the problems, but I'd say operators' standards haven't dropped. I remember when I was younger and it was more common to see arcade games around, if something was wrong with a game you were just out of that quarter. It's just a case where some ops are better at taking care of their games than others. Also, I know I'm more knowledgeable now than I was then, so I can see problems with games. Back then I probably just thought it was a feature.
    I know one thing. I love seeing games on location, no matter what condition. I'll put quarters in them and if they don't work then I know better for next time.

    All true - I guess it's my standards then, as - like I mentioned - if I was working this location, I'd make sure the games were 100% before modding. (Realistically 100%, given available parts..)

    #11 8 years ago

    I'm an operator and I make sure my games work 100% at least twice a month. I love playing so it's an easy test

    #12 8 years ago

    just to put a little validitiy on price to play for anyone concerned about paying 'more' to play on route now-a-days

    http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=.50&year1=1992&year2=2015

    .50 to play in 1992 = .85 to play in 2015

    If you are paying on avergage .75 to play then I think you are doing pretty good and in reality paying less than when you were a kid

    I do agree that games should be clean, well maintained, and playing well. Just wanted to point out that based on inflation .75 is a deal (esp when costs to maintain have gone up more compared to 1992; broken bits cost more, gas to get there is more, shipping of new parts is more, insurance is more, taxes are more, but bar still gets the same cut).

    #13 8 years ago
    Quoted from Coyote:

    Not that I knew of. But inn also not sure what that gfs to do with the section of my OP you quoted.

    You came to my area. You should have come here instead of there. Where your business would have been appreciated.

    LTG : )

    #14 8 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    You came to my area. You should have come here instead of there. Where your business would have been appreciated.
    LTG : )

    Where is "here?"

    #15 8 years ago

    Price complaints are out of line. $1 for ANY pinball machine on location is perfectly fair in 2015. That's actually LESS the cost per game than you were paying for something like High Speed 30 years ago, and also less what you paying per game back in the 1970s.

    1975 - 25 cents = $1.11 today. And I think you are getting a little more game for your money
    1986 - 50 cents = $1.09 today

    I think you get the point.

    Leveling? It sucks...but hell, I've been known to climb under a game myself and fix that if possible.

    As far as the other stuff...hey they are location games and seem to be in pretty good shape. We all know location games aren't gonna be perfect. Nothing wrong with letting management know about issues, maybe leave a note. But it really does seem like you are running into basically average location equipment.

    #16 8 years ago
    Quoted from dmbjunky:

    Where is "here?"

    http://ssbilliards.com/

    Hopkins, MN.

    The OP is on a work trip to Minneapolis. So I'm probably closer to him than the place he went.

    LTG : )

    #17 8 years ago

    I think expectations have been raised for pinball players and that is why it is more obvious now. The hard part is, most casual people wouldn't know the difference on many of those things and just think it's part of the game so where does he draw the line with all those games. You can't beat them for selection, but when you have been spoiled by home collections or smaller locations that really take care of games, it is really hard to play games like that on route cause every little thing sticks out like a sore thumb. Some things like the left grave standup awarding drop target hits on Metallica and the broken diverter and scoop 2 passing issue to scoop 1 on NBAFB have been issues for as long as I can remember and that's tough as a player that knows how the game is supposed to play. LEDs are in the eye of the beholder, some are well done and some...like his old Fish Tales...was amazingly awful. It was dark as night with only green GI everywhere and I think everyone was happy when that game left. I respect what he is trying to do at Blainbrook with such a huge selection, but that said, I am about 40 minutes from Blainbrook and I don't ever really get up there much anymore simply because time is a premium for me now with two little kids and there are locations that suit the way I like to play that are closer.

    Donny doesn't own all the games. Some have belonged to other collector's/people/ops in the past so things are maintained/priced differently. He also wants the games to pay for themselves and not get financial support from the bar/food sales, so that is part of the reason why things are like they are.

    #18 8 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    But it really does seem like you are running into basically average location equipment.

    Sounds like a poor location. If you want to have a bunch of unleveled games with busted switches/solenoids and tacky LEDs, don't charge 75c to a buck as if they're maintained.

    Pinball maintenance costs may be up with inflation, but the value of 3 minutes of entertainment is way down. $1/play makes sense as a one time novelty, but not for playing all night. In terms of profits, the Coinbox guys at least make it sound like hardcore players don't bring in money compared to walk-ins so what price I'll play at doesn't matter Players want nice working games for cheap. Regular people are happy so long as the flippers work and it has a cool licensed translite. A lot easier to only care about your core monetary base

    #19 8 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    You came to my area. You should have come here instead of there. Where your business would have been appreciated.
    LTG : )

    Oooh, see, I didn't know you were up there! D'oh! Sorry, otherwise I woulda for sure!

    Quoted from LTG:

    http://ssbilliards.com/
    Hopkins, MN.
    The OP is on a work trip to Minneapolis. So I'm probably closer to him than the place he went.
    LTG : )

    WAS - I'm back home now. I left the day I posted this post. However, I have the place bookmarked now, and the next time I'm up there (no planned trips, but that doesn't mean I won't be..) I'll stop by.

    #20 8 years ago

    And I'll add -
    I can't argue with you guys who took inflation into account. Nor can I argue with those of you who say they're 'average'. (I'd actually call the ones I played a little *less* than average, because of the major hangups - lock on Whirlwind, for example..)

    However, I think some of it is based on the *amount* of games, and some of the 'mods' done to them.

    If there was one or two games total, okay, then I could see that.

    But having THAT MANAY is like someone yelloing, "Hey, check out my awesome collection!" .. and when you do, nothing is 'above average'. Add to that - money spent for Color DMD, yet you cannot see half the LEDs.. or money not spent to replace the lock diverter.

    Priorities.

    #21 8 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Price complaints are out of line. $1 for ANY pinball machine on location is perfectly fair in 2015. That's actually LESS the cost per game than you were paying for something like High Speed 30 years ago, and also less what you paying per game back in the 1970s.
    1975 - 25 cents = $1.11 today. And I think you are getting a little more game for your money
    1986 - 50 cents = $1.09 today
    I think you get the point.
    Leveling? It sucks...but hell, I've been known to climb under a game myself and fix that if possible.
    As far as the other stuff...hey they are location games and seem to be in pretty good shape. We all know location games aren't gonna be perfect. Nothing wrong with letting management know about issues, maybe leave a note. But it really does seem like you are running into basically average location equipment.

    I recall in 1975 virtually all newer location pins in the Detroit area were 2 plays for 25¢. The older ones were a dime for one play and 3 plays for a quarter.

    #22 8 years ago
    Quoted from MrBally:

    I recall in 1975 virtually all newer location pins in the Detroit area were 2 plays for 25¢. The older ones were a dime for one play and 3 plays for a quarter.

    Remember when games were a dime.

    #23 8 years ago
    Quoted from TomGWI:

    Remember when games were a dime.

    My juke will still give a song for a dime..!

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