I don't think premiums have hit the street yet...but still, $1700 for basically a kickback, lighting, VUK, and star field projector (LOL)? No thanks.

Go Refinery edition ST Pro. The VUK is useless and the starfield projector isn't as good as the refinery's lit apron tied into gameplay IMO. You do get the 60 colour changing LED inserts on the Premium though and although it's not that spectacular now I have a feeling with new updates they will make it amazing. I would still go Refinery Pro though.

I was going to buy the ST Pro for $4550 until I saw the LE.
Man, what a different pin that is. But its $8200!
WHAT?
Sorry Stern, I am not going to give you almost double the price for a few added features.

Pro. All day, and twice on Sunday. Save the $$ for your next pin (or just buy a nice B/C title).

Later,
EV

Have you played an LE yet?

Not even close. Premium.

For about 2K more I decided the Premium was not worth it to me. Stock Pro shipped are around $4500 and Stock Premium shipped are around $6500. I was set to go Premium but then they changed the VUK and it no longer would kick ball around warp ramp. Actual physical gameplay differences between the two models is very small with the addition of the VUK. I like the cab and backglass art on the Pro better than the Premium after deciding on a Refinery Pro I am very happy with my decision.

That said, the Premium looks pretty cool to and you get extra features like the basic VUK and many more color changing lights so I can see why some would think the additional $2,000 is worth it.

I agree the Pro is a great bang for your buck, but this is my first NIB, so I'm going all out. The LE's will be gone by the time I'm ready to buy, so Premium it is.

Plus by then, the Premium's will be built better, as they will have a lot of the kinks worked out. Benefits of going last.

No I haven't played one yet, I am sure it is mind blowing though. I have watched a lot of videos on it though. I love the pulsating red in the apron of the Refinery edition.

Refinery does nothing for me.

You can put that on a Premium. There's nothing that Refinery does that can't be added to a Premium...but you can't add Premium features to a Pro.

This is true but the pro is cheaper. So if you like the Premium extras you might as well buy an LE for the extra dough the Refinery add on's will cost.

Hey they are both good games, but they do play a bit differently. The VUK does make a difference in the game if you are a good player, the kickback increases ball times dramatically and allows you to go deeper into the game. Also the return lane will always return your ball to the left flipper nicely for the next shot with again makes the gameplay a little different from the pro. The colour changing LED's, the violent action of vengence, the extra toys... You can go wrong with either purchase IMO... I went LE, premium is a good choice without the bling, bling, Pro is also a good option if you are strapped for cash, can't go wrong here with this machine!!!

Does the premium apron have cut outs in it like the refinery mod? The premium has the "shields" indicators on the apron but I don't know if the triangular areas under them are cut out or solid.

Also does anyone know if the shield indicators on the apron are individaully addressable (ie turn on 1, 2, or 3, etc segments on at a time) or are they all just on or all off?

I saw some pics someone had showing the projector mechanism with the apron removed and it looked like there wasn't an RGB LED under the apron for each segment. It looks like it might just have a couple RGB LEDs that would light all the segments on or off together as one.

As far I know The triangle inserts on the Premium and LE are just solid and do not light up at all. Only the little shield inserts do, but I could be wrong.

I was guessing the triangular part was solid because with the other rectualr shield cut outs it might be too flimsy if the triangular area was cut out as well.

Anyone see how the apron lights on the LE are used during gameplay? Do they serve any function?

I think the cutouts were added last minute to compensate for the VUK changes. If you look at the initial playfield pics they weren't there originally. If it was a last minute addition then maybe they haven't had time to do much with them programming wise yet.

I haven't seen them do anything during the game yet just in attract mode. Someone in another thread said they do lite up during one of the mini wizard modes but I haven't got that far so I haven't seen it.

If you have an LE (and assuming you can stop playing it for a few minutes in the next couple of days) can you verify if the apron does or does not have cutouts in the trangular area? Also if there is an individual LED for each each of the smaller rectangular cut outs or is it just a couple LEDs that light all of the segments as a whole.

I'm still on the fence regaridng pro vs prem. I like the light up apron that refinery offers but if the premium light up segments are more interactive with the gameplay that would be another plus for the premium.

I heard the premiums start shipping next week?

I'll get a picture of the apron tonight and get it posted. Not sure about under it as think I would have to take it off to see what the lites are under it but I'll try to determine in atract mode if it looks like each cutout lites on it's own.

At this point the refinery apron is more interactive with gameplay.

I know we've gone back and forth a few times on this - but Stern hasn't listed Extra Clear as a feature since Avatar LE. I'm really not sure the clear process is any different between all versions. All of the Prem/LE's I've seen have dimpled/worn same as Pros & require the same mylar/Cliffy/etc protection.

The double clear, colour changing inserts and kickback are the best differences out of this comparison the toys (Enterprise and asteroids) can be bought and added to the Pro for VERY cheap. But I might go Premium just for the extra clear alone if it has it, I don't know if the extra clear was only an LE thing?

Here is the apron, not sure if it answers you question or not. I didn't see them lite individually but they do change colors.

photo 1.jpg

photo 2.jpg

Sometimes I wonder if they totally know what's going on in that regard ...

Just seems like that's a very good extra to put in the marketing materials - to make people feel like they're getting a bit more for their money - but they don't mention it. Hmmmm.