Imagine this world if we all had the same opinions......

It reminds me of the old bud light commercials.

Less filling!
tastes great!
Sadly, bud light is neither

I'm starting to play my twdle more now. And I can see why ppl say st is like chopping wood

How ever. The shot combinations with the fan layout is pretty diverse. There are so many missions and scoring strategies that the game to me doesn't get boring.

Vengence 1 for victory laps is essentially the same as Klingon MB. But it still fun

They basically are meaningless most of the time though. I already addressed the flashing shot in my comment that you quoted. It's flashing, and that's all that matters. That it might be flashing blue/yellow doesn't mean anything extra. The colors used per mode are purely window dressing, they don't mean anything else.

The multiball stacking color is useful (unless you're in Klingon Battle, then it's useless). But the inserts in my Metallica LE are way more useful than Star Trek when it comes to using color to convey information. And that's kinda sad, since the Pro doesn't even have color changers, Lyman added that anyways. Meanwhile Star Trek has color changing inserts on every single model, a prime place to really take advantage of them. Keying them to each mode having a color probably sounded good, but IMHO it was a big mistake. Removed any actual meaning from much of the RGB usage.

I would go with Game of Thrones. Star Trek Pro is awesome and so is my Walking Dead on location but they have been out awhile already and the newest always does well. At least great themed, good playing games

ST is such a beautiful flowy machine. Almost brings me to tears how the coders let that game down. SR has obviously listened to feedback from that game as GoT is already a more interesting game code wise. And the shots are always smooth on his games so GoT matches ST there as well

Giving proper credit where credit is due. Steve Ritchie doesn't write code. So Dwight did a great job on GoT as he built the rules from the ground up rather than tried fixing them 80% done as in Star Trek.

Have you called around? JJGEX, Tilt, Cointaker, etc.

$4800 Shipped to your door

I think this is interesting since I hate the theme with a passion, I grew up being forced to watch Star Trek by my babysitter. I have no love, then the pics came out and I disliked the look/art greatly as well.

Here is the thing, I LOVE the game, I also don't mind the artwork (much nicer in person).

So we are exactly the opposite, you wanted to love the game and I wanted to hate the game.

ST is a great game, there's no doubting that. I also doubt that most location players will have the same complaints as the collector market. Having a great flowing game that's bright and colourful with easy to determine shots (thanks to the colour changing inserts) will be a hit on route. The only time that I played a ST was on route, it was sitting next to WoZ and I immediately fell in love with colour changing inserts, they add such ease to the game. New players will not feel as intimidated as compared to an older game.

GoT has all of these benifits plus it's a new hot license with staying power for at least the next 3-5 years. As long as the tv show is airing the theme will seem current and fresh. (A bonus for location play)

In full disclosure I've ordered a GoT Premium.

Had a chance to play GoT at a friend's today.

It was very fun and very fast-it was set at 7.5 degrees.

The rules were interesting and I enjoyed figuring out which things stacked well together. I am not sure what the heck I was missing with the Targaryen house. I had 6 houses done on several games but could not finish that 7th insert.

I tried starting with each house once to explore the benefits. I need some more time with this, but I liked the Martell add a ball feature. I actually found it more beneficial to play houses solo as opposed to doubling up, unless I had a great 2 house combination working with a multiball. It was easier for me to finish modes one at a time. Not to mention, easier to follow inserts.

I am not sure the battering ram on our game was working right. It seemed unresponsive most of the game, even with multipliers or SJP lit. We were speculating maybe the game was too steep to move the battering ram correctly.

The light show at times was ridiculous. So often I could not see anything. Why have these intricate fast decision combo rules if the goal is to blind the player, so they can't see what to shoot?

Anyway, I felt GoT flowed very nicely, (of course!) but there is quite a difference in shot patterns in GoT vs ST even aside from the 3rd flipper. Criss crossing ramp patterns on ST feel totally different than repeat ramp shots on GoT. ST does offer a repeatable left ramp and warp ramp. Stark mode up the middle was fun to repeat over and over and then cash out, but it was not as exciting as looping the warp ramp.

I probably was missing a lot of strategy in GoT. It was only my first day. As I started figuring things out, I made my way into the 2 BIL club several times, but felt like I was missing tons of points (the battering ramp glitch was probably not helping). I think 7-10 BIL will be commonplace-I saw the scores some others posted.

GoT encourages a lot of on the fly shooting. That is a fun way to play. ST encourages more long term setup and is more of a thinking player's game (strategic) where as a lot of decisions in GoT seem reactionary (tactical)

(Strategy: what to do when there is nothing immediate to do.
Tactics: what to do right now. )

I thought the GoT video mode was a bit silly. I played it once so I could say I did it. Thanks for giving players the option to avoid it.

I liked the concept of using gold to do things. I hope there is a way to normalize what one can buy in tourney settings. I saw one time where an extra ball could be purchased. I know EBs in tourneys are turned off, but that is a pretty decent reward in normal play.

Lastly, we know the LE has an extra playfield rules and features, but the pro was fun to play as-is. I didn't feel like something was missing.

I really look forward to playing this game some more. But I am far from being convinced it is better or worse than ST yet, but it seems to have lots of potential.

To the OP: I think you would be happy with either game. Both fun and both are SR games. Sounds like a win-win.

Wow great write up. Thanks for sharing!

For the record, I'm not a very good player. I just have a small lineup at all times so I get to play the same game over and over a lot. Luckily, STLE 'does it' for me where I haven't had to rotate it out. Prior to dwights code, I almost traded it out for a BDK, remember that!?

Gonna bump this thread cause i had a premonition of why some hate ST & some love it. Here it goes, hope it makes sense - at work so typing fast on the fly:

Lots of people claim that all the modes 'feel' the same and i say they dont feel the same, at least with this latest update. And mind you, ive owned this pin for 2 years. But what i do see in the code which makes me love it and some hate it is that each mission is like a mini wizard mode. Now bear with me here; Each mission is so unique, so intriguing, and pays a lot of attention to detail that there's a lot going on with each one. A few missions do lack this depth of integration or fall in line with their previoius tiered mission (PD3 & SJ3); but there's a lot of involvement in each mission, and not just that, but the strategies of going 3 deep into missions or 3 in a row has quite an involving development in itself.

So what's that all mean; well, the game lacks development into the other wizard modes that we are starting to become accustomed to seeing; and i think this is where people have a hard time enjoying the pin - they want more more more quicker quicker quicker. The cash in for medals is superb! And Kobayashi is a great mode but it still doesnt feel like a true mini wizard mode. Enterprise amok does; but reaching enterprise amok is very difficult where as games like metallica, twd, & mustang offer quicker achievements to these bonus modes (CIU, Horde, Terminus, drift, etc...). We're in a day and age of programming where people want to feel progression at a quicker rate because after all the games themselves play much faster than the days of the old.

With this hard criticism of my favorite game i will say that the reason i love it is for this exact critique as well. Not only is it the best shooting pin ive ever played, but from the moment i press start to the moment ball 3 drains i am engulfed in the theme and missions. There's so much going on in each of the 18 missions that having those quick 'mini wizard mode' scapegoats isnt necessary, but i admit it is lacking...at least for enterprise amok & 5 year mission. So with the lack of that feeling of progression, i am still satisfied with each and every push of the start button as i get to choose if i want to play a trap & shoot style game i can choose that route, or if i want on the fly fast shooting i go that direction, or perhaps a mixture of both.

That last sentence there is really what Star Trek is about and makes it so great...IMO.

I just got Trek and need to track down a rules sheet. I get the three in a row chair, vengeance multi, Klingon multi, but not the multi level missions nor can I even tell missions are unique in any form.

Both are fun games, for location I would think GOT, broader appeal, alot of people dont like ST because they think the theme is nerdy.. but have no problem with GOT, so you may lose plays because of that.

They arnt unique in any way really that why you cant tell.

Game is great dispite that and I'm hoping as I learn them they feel different.

Except that in Nero 1 (galactic targets) you're hitting targets; Nero 2 you're focusing on 3-way combos; Nero 3 has 2 shots that move opposite directions everytime you hit a flipper button. DTD1 you're focusing on spinner shots, DTD2 is trap and shoot style play with roving shots, DTD3 is right orbit/vengeance/VUK trap and shooting. KB1 is on the fly ramp shooting, KB2 is a challenge of the left flipper to left ramp (reverse warp ramp so to speak), KB3 is timed precision shooting. PD1 is lanes shooting, PD 2 & 3 is thoughtful precision combo shooting on the fly. SJ1 is a fun 3 shots and you're complete or build a galactic vengeance final point shot; SJ 2 & 3 is a timed left side / right side combo shooting with bonus shots to increase timer. STE1 is warp shooting, and STE 2&3 being the most generic random of all the missions with a trap and think style of play.

But in short, yea they're all the same

gonna ask you this since you know more about the rules, do you think ST rules are complete?

It's complete for the most part; code has a few minor quirky bugs, but Nothing game breaking. That said, ST isn't the best ruleset compared to games like acdc, TWD, lotr, to name a few. the rules are good but it could have been better. Considering the game was on path to be another TF, Avengers, KISS abandoned type game; I think Dwight pulled off a clutch performance to revive ST.

To me, the game lacks depth progression but shines hard in the fun quality dept.

Awesome study guide for me thx

What is the benefit or bonus for going three deep on each mission?

Lights one of the shots for 2X for the remainder of the game. great for stacking with galactic missions.

Whenever I get a little bored with ST I just come to Pinside and read something Eskaybee has written and go "Oh I should try that next time!"

Yeah it's pretty awesome owning a game that SKB owns. I loved it when he owned Xmen, I printed out lots of good write ups that I still use today. And you don't even have to hound him for them, he just gives them up out of his passion for pinball and the kindness of his heart. Thanks SKB!

Agreed. SKB is probably has the most understanding of the ruleset of ST, and his posts are pretty objective and factual. Yes it is clear he loves the game, but it is not honeymoon talk.

This game does offer a wide variety of strategies to reaching a high score. The player has tons of options on setting things up and I keep finding new basic things I want to approach. (My latest kick is setting up STE 3, KB3 and super ramps with 2x playfield). Previously I was setting up Nero 3, then super spinner with 2x playfield). Before when I was addicted to just hitting the warp ramp, I would set up DTD 3 first, then have fun). I often have to remind myself there are multiballs to play and various Vengeance modes to play, because the allure of the double shot map AND double playfield with double award for combos is so tempting.

So...can somebody tell me the secret behind lighting the Special light and shot? In 1600 games, I've lit it once. I'm assuming it has to do with the red Enterprise lights and stringing together enough combos?

(sorry for quoting out of multiple posts, but they all make a point)

I don't think it is the fact that CIU and the others are quicker to get to, it is how they tell you that you are getting there. As you hit the coffin the DMD tells you how many more hits are needed, and when you get there, the insert for coffin lights up. Inside CIU when you hit it once, the insert lights letting you know that escape from CIU is 1/4 done.

I'm using MET as the example, but other games have a similar way to lead you through playing. As you play a bunch of games on a new machine, things feel random. Hey, what caused that callout. Hey, what did I do to light that insert. And you try to do it again. Tron yells out "Libations for EVERYBODY" and you watch closely the next game to see it happened when you hit the 4th Zeus standup. There are the harder ones like the fact that Gem finishes Quorra (!) on Tron, but you get the idea. After about 10 games you start to get the flow of a games rules. And after about 30 it really starts to click. Sometimes earlier, sometimes later. But parts along the way start to lay the tracks.

Some games are different like AC/DC, where your scoring strategy along with your tolerance for risk vs. reward can lead you. You could cash in that jackpot, or you could wait to build up a HUGE one. To me that game is all about the points you are willing to leave on the table as you play. But unfortunately AC/DC does require a bit of explanation of the rules. If you play the game with someone who knows it well the machine opens up and is amazing.

Your description of ST is probably the best I ever heard. I had NO idea how different and complex each mode was. Mostly because the game has never led me there. So when I play it, each mode doesn't feel special and new, they sort of feel the same. The game has been around for years, and yet this is the first explanation of the depth of the game that made sense to me. Huge parts of this were even lost on Bowen when he did his tutorial video on the game, and he is 10 times the player I could ever hope to be. So I guess it is possible that Stern went too far with the rules (I cannot believe I just said that).

Another big problem for the game was how long this complexity took to get into the game. I remember when it came out and I rushed out to play it. I thought it was really cool, but the feeling playing never clicked with me. The shots were fine (even the tough side shots for the away team), but the modes didn't capture me. And I was also ticked off that I lit 3 in a row, but there was NO reward for it back then even though it was written on the playfield. I stuck with it trying newer software for a while, but then I decided that the game didn't do it for me. I've probably only played it 5 or 6 times since then.

I guess that comes back to a huge knock on Stern for how they do things. I play a new game and get an impression of it good or bad. And then over the next 18 months the code is written so the game becomes what it will be. But sometimes it is just too late to turn around my feelings about a game. TWD is going through this right now. They finally turned the code into something good, but I am having such a hard time getting over my distaste for the game and the way the code used to play that it is hard to even give it a chance.

So I really appreciate your writeup of the modes. Knowing this maybe I'll take another crack at the game on the current code. I'm just getting the impression that I shouldn't even play a Stern for the first 18 months after they ship.

Well said, I still own the game, but it's not my favorite. Perhapse since I own so many other games, I have choices that I say to myself do I want to play TSPP or IM or Tron or AcDc. Just seems that ST gets pushed down the list that I don't really get it. I think it's probably good code but as you said it's not self explanatory. And while TSPP and AcDc are very complex, they both have very good rules sheets I can reference.

With ST I'm just at a loss on some of the basics that I never really get to the advanced rules where it might some day click. That's why I'm hoping someone will write up the rules. I'm going to watch Bowens tutorial, but I find as good as he is and and well as the tutorials might be, the fact is the video was made years ago before the new code and also he's playing the pin and the rules might not go exactly as well as if someone was to logically write down the rules such as these are the modes 1,2,3 (etc). This is how the Multiball works, this is how the super jackpot works, this is how the medals work etc...

IMO Star Trek either has poor rules in that they are not self explanatory, same with AcDc but with AcDc there is a full multi page rull sheat written up that I can read.

Even a very simple game like Tron, PotC and IM, I find that I appreciate the game rules much more if I can read them and get them in my head before I play rather than have to noodle out what I'm supposed to be doing.

I think you totally nailed it Dave!

If Steve ritchie didn't get Dwight to tie the game altogether with his vision, my ST would be long gone! I played a ST Premium on location about a month or so ago and it was clean, setup nice, and played great. But it was on an early version of the code , and I left mid game thinking holy crap what a complete turd of a machine. Every complaint I've read about ST came to light when I played this premium. It made me rethink my position on STLE, then I got home and played it on the updated code and all was right in the world again lol

I did call stern out on it though as they gloated about this particular location on fb, and I heard they've updated it since.

TWD is another great example. I'm a huge twd fan of the show and wanted this pin bad. But after seeing and playing it, I had absolute 0 interest. A friend picked one up a few months ago on one of the newer code releases and I was sold! The new code + pinball browser helped solidify a purchase for this one. The code and game are great but there are still a few design flaws that still have me thinking whether it's a long term keeper or not. I still play my STLE more than my twd.

St is better with the newer code but it is no got. GOT is the much better game; ST just feels like rinse lather and repeat all the time; gets to be rather boring; where as got is just fun

i just unboxed GoTLE. It's definitely better at explaining what to do. When you choose a house to fight against. It actually says ex. "Shoot the ramps to build points and then shoot the orbits"

Where as in Star Trek. You select a mission and away you go

Both have the lit color shot to shoot for. GoTLE tells u. St u have figure it out on your own

Star Trek to me is faster game. And has more flow

GoTLE has awesome multiballs

Me and my friend. We love st. We played GoTLE for 2hrs straight and thought we would find St boring if we played it after. We were wrong. We blasted another 30 minutes on St and loved it

This has been a very useful thread for me so far, as I am trying to decide which of these two to buy. Is there a big diff in price or supply between the two?

Not at the moment but Trek may be finishing up its production soon as its been out for a while. Maybe it gets another year of production due to the new movie next July.

More of my thoughts between st vs got

I think the theme is more integrated in ST. Whatever mission and tier I'm battling. With the dots and call outs. I feel I'm in the movie

ST dots aren't the most pleasing but they do fit the movies well. Ex nero 1 2 3. You first battle Nero when he comes out of the black hole and then you shoot romulans on his ship and then lastly spock takes off in that ship.

Code is early GoTLE but it doesn't have that same feeling. I think part of it is the dmd is used to display info. This is where a JJP large LCD screen would have been better