(Topic ID: 85161)

ST Pro - Two right enterprise inserts are dim.

By tonymiddendorf

10 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 39 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by jonnyqtrek
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

insertschange (resized).jpg
Untitled.jpg
image.jpg
IMG_0547.JPG
20150411_030848.jpg
20140407_103421.jpg
20140407_103335.jpg
20140407_103317.jpg
20140407_103250.jpg

#1 10 years ago

The right two enterprise inserts are lit by a single led on a small board as opposed to a regular socketed lamp. These inserts are a little trickier to get to which, I would suspect, is why they used these boards as opposed to a traditional socketed lamp.

Unfortunately, these single led's are not NEARLY as bright as the lamps in the other inserts and it bugs me becuase combos are a huge part of the game.

Has anyone replaced these boards with a socket and brighter led? (I'm thinking a flexi would work well) If you have, would you mind showing a picture of your handiwork and the part numbers you used?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts and comments.

#2 10 years ago

Following incase this is an issue if I purchase the pin. Is this an issue on most ST pro models ?

#3 10 years ago

I would imagine all ST Pro's are the same in this respect.

I wouldn't call it an 'issue' in that something is wrong or defective. This design was intentional. There isn't much room for full sized bulb in the area, so they put an LED on a small board so it could fit in/around the insert.

The result is that these two inserts don't light up nearly as much as the others (because the LED on the board isn't nearly as bright as the normal LED lamps in the other inserts).

So, you can fully expect this on your game. The question is whether or not it will be enough to bother you.

Don't get me wrong, the inserts light up and you can see them. My problem is that they are about 1/2 to 1/3 as bright as the other inserts.

#4 10 years ago

And the other arrows that have color changing have larger boards with brighter lights.. I repositioned them a bit and it seemed to help FYI

#5 10 years ago
Quoted from PunishersLEMC:

And the other arrows that have color changing have larger boards with brighter lights.. I repositioned them a bit and it seemed to help FYI

Thanks- repositioned mine too, but still wasn't happy with the results. It helped, but I'm still not satisfied.

#6 10 years ago

I see what you mean - the other color changing boards are so much brighter and larger boards.. You are not nuts Tony

#7 10 years ago
Quoted from tonymiddendorf:

Thanks- repositioned mine too, but still wasn't happy with the results. It helped, but I'm still not satisfied.

Try this ??? I am going too

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/st-proprele-warp-ramp-insignia-lighting-mod-

ebay.com link: Replacement for Transparent Filter Diffuser of Light CN 126 CN 160 CN 216 LED

#8 10 years ago
Quoted from PunishersLEMC:

Try this ??? I am going too
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/st-proprele-warp-ramp-insignia-lighting-mod-
ebay.com link » Replacement For Transparent Filter Diffuser Of Light Cn 126 Cn 160 Cn 216 Led

Maybe ... but the problem isn't really with the lack of light diffusing.

There is simply not enough light produced by the single led on the board. The regular lamps put out way more light than the two small boards do... so, the actual led needs to be replaced with something beefier.

#9 10 years ago

You can replace it with a socket and flex bulb.

2 weeks later
#10 9 years ago
Quoted from markmon:

You can replace it with a socket and flex bulb.

I ended up doing just that. Bayonet base for both. I used a red Comet LED for the right ramp insert and an old red flexi for the right orbit insert.

Potential for rubbing against the upper right flipper baseplate, so I did some electric tape wrapping ...

#11 9 years ago

Could you show some pictures of you socket/bulb install?

#12 9 years ago
Quoted from RoyF:

Could you show some pictures of you socket/bulb install?

I'll give it a shot later today.

I just used sockets that I had on hand ... pretty sure they are sockets for 80's era games. But, a socket is a socket, right?

It's a bear getting pictures from my phone to work on the Pinside uploader, so forgive me if it takes a day or two.

#13 9 years ago

20140407_103250.jpg20140407_103250.jpg
20140407_103421.jpg20140407_103421.jpg20140407_103335.jpg20140407_103335.jpg20140407_103317.jpg20140407_103317.jpg

#14 9 years ago

Alright- that picture upload was easier than it was in the past. They did not upload in the correct order, but that's fine.

First picture is of STEP 1: the sockets I used. (E-120-81)Like I said, these were just sockets I had on hand and there are probably better options out there. I don't know where I originally got the sockets. I'm sure a Google search of that part number will yield good results.

Second picture is of STEP 3: the socket under the flipper assembly (aka, the right orbit insert). This insert needs a flexi bulb in order to get the LED under the flipper base plate and more toward the center of the insert. Please note that I used the existing hole for installing the socket.

Third picture is of STEP 4: the easier socket (aka, the right ramp insert). This insert can use any number of bulbs. I used a red Comet LED I had on hand. Please note that I used the existing hole for installing the socket.

Last picture is of STEP 2: the snipped LED boards. Snip the wire at the boards. Strip the existing wire down for preparation to solder to your new sockets. I also needed to snip two of the zip ties on the wiring harness to allow more length for the wire.

Total time commitment: 10-45 minutes depending on your skill level.

#16 9 years ago

And a picture of the results ? How does it now look lit

#17 9 years ago
Quoted from PunishersLEMC:

And a picture of the results ? How does it now look lit

I tried. The game is too f'ing bright to take a good photo.

If I had to put numbers on it:
If the 'good' inserts are considered 95% illuminated and the 'bad' inserts are considered 45% eliminated BEFORE the modification. I'd consider them 85-90% illuminated AFTER the modification.

Well worth the small amount of effort. Especially if you like to focus on combos

3 months later
#18 9 years ago

So I did this over the weekend and have a very different result than you. I'm finding that there is very little visible difference at all with the change from a socket bulb to the light board. The LED light I put in there is not lighting up as much as the other lights. Is it possible I've done something wrong? If you hook it up wrong no light comes out at all so I know I've got the wires on correctly but being yours made such a big difference I've got to wonder what I've done wrong.

I did the left insert and left the right one a board after seeing the results. I asked my wife to come in and tell me which insert I did and she couldn't tell the difference at all.

Any thoughts? At this point I wouldn't recommend this mod which is a bummer as those two inserts drive me nuts.

3 months later
#19 9 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

So I did this over the weekend and have a very different result than you. I'm finding that there is very little visible difference at all with the change from a socket bulb to the light board. The LED light I put in there is not lighting up as much as the other lights. Is it possible I've done something wrong? If you hook it up wrong no light comes out at all so I know I've got the wires on correctly but being yours made such a big difference I've got to wonder what I've done wrong.
I did the left insert and left the right one a board after seeing the results. I asked my wife to come in and tell me which insert I did and she couldn't tell the difference at all.
Any thoughts? At this point I wouldn't recommend this mod which is a bummer as those two inserts drive me nuts.

Same here. I changed to flexible LED and there was no difference. I think the flat boards are the same ones that are used on the premium games and those light up ok. I should check the voltage going to these...

Rob

4 months later
#20 8 years ago

Just revisiting this thread.... After looking at the game again it finally dawned on my why the 2 right inserts are dim! It's not so much the LED boards, but rather a mistake(?) on the wiring. If you look in the middle underneath the playfield, the wiring goes through a diode and a resistor which is hard mounted under the playfield. However, there's another resistor on the LED board itself. So basically there are 2 resistors in series when there should probably be only 1. Since the resistors are series, the resistance value is cumulative and hence the dim inserts.

I bet that's the reason those inserts are dim. The solution may be as simple as bypassing the first resistor. This means re-mounting the resistor side wire to the middle lug.

edit: Bypassing the board resistor does seem to brighten them a bit, but they are still not like the other inserts mainly due to the fact that the boards are 1 LED and the other inserts have 2 led lamps. Think of it like going from 50% brightness to 80% brightness.

Rob

20150411_030848.jpg20150411_030848.jpg

Super exclusive ad from the Pinside Marketplace!
#21 8 years ago

Very interesting.

#22 8 years ago
Quoted from Rob_G:

Just revisiting this thread.... After looking at the game again it finally dawned on my why the 2 right inserts are dim! It's not so much the LED boards, but rather a mistake(?) on the wiring. If you look in the middle underneath the playfield, the wiring goes through a diode and a resistor which is hard mounted under the playfield. However, there's another resistor on the LED board itself. So basically there are 2 resistors in series when there should probably be only 1. Since the resistors are series, the resistance value is cumulative and hence the dim inserts.
I bet that's the reason those inserts are dim. The solution may be as simple as bypassing the first resistor. This means re-mounting the resistor side wire to the middle lug.
edit: Bypassing the board resistor does seem to brighten them a bit, but they are still not like the other inserts mainly due to the fact that the boards are 1 LED and the other inserts have 2 led lamps. Think of it like going from 50% brightness to 80% brightness.
Rob
20150411_030848.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

This issue has been driving me crazy since the first time I played a game on mine.
I recently purchased the new larger LED boards from Cointaker at TPF.
So Far I have only had time to put the three blue ones I purchased in my AC/DC under the Thunderstruck circle inserts. Wow, what huge difference.
I purchased some red ones for Star Trek, but have not had the time yet to install.
Very curious about the extra resistors as well.
Here is a photo of the difference in size from the Stern Boards for comparison.
The green board is the very small Stern factory LED.

IMG_0547.JPGIMG_0547.JPG
#23 8 years ago

It drives me crazy too, keep us posted if the larger red ones do the trick.

#24 8 years ago

Success!!!!
Just installed the new larger LED boards under my right two Enterprise inserts.
They are now very bright and match all the others.
Highly recommended.
image.jpgimage.jpg

#25 8 years ago

Did your successful installation of the new light boards also include bypassing the extra resistor mounted to the bottom of the playfield?

#26 8 years ago
Quoted from RoyF:

Did your successful installation of the new light boards also include bypassing the extra resistor mounted to the bottom of the playfield?

Nope. The resistor boards were not touched.
The brighter LED board from Cointaker was all that was necessary
Loving it.

#27 8 years ago

Most people who solder a lot already know this but here is an easy method to install these new LED boards.
1. Get a friend to help. A third hand is amazingly helpful as you will be soldering in the machine.
2. Prep the new boards by applying a thin layer of solder flux to the two solder pads.
3. Put a bubble of solder on each pad.
4. Unscrew both Original boards and put a towel in the bottom of your cabinet just in case anything drips.
5. Note which wire goes to the ground pad and which wire goes to the active pad.
6. Get you helper to hold the board you are removing with some pliers.
7. Heat the solder pads and pull both wires loose.
8. Get your helper to hold the new board with pliers.
9. Just put the wire over the correct pad and heat the solder bubble you made. The wire will simply sink into place and you are done.

#29 8 years ago

Sweet! Guess I need to make an order with cointaker. I also bought the blue ones for AC/DC and didn't even think of trying this on ST.

#31 8 years ago

Never mind. Cointaker has apparently gone on crack with their shipping rates. I'll deal with the dim lights....

$20 to ship a box USPS that is a "ship and it fits" $6 box is retarded...

Untitled.jpgUntitled.jpg

#32 8 years ago

I bet if you call them they can fix that.
I bought mine at TPF, so no shipping

#33 8 years ago

Interesting. I just constructed the exact same cart contents as in your picture. Shipping on that $33.44 order was calculated at $12.70 for me shipped to Ohio. Can't tell what your shipping location is. Still, seems a bit high for what should be able to ship flat rate, so I'd go with Arcade's suggestion and give them a call.

1 week later
#34 8 years ago

I installed the new boards over the weekend, very easy and they look so much better. Thanks

#35 8 years ago
Quoted from Ramjet:

I installed the new boards over the weekend, very easy and they look so much better. Thanks

Agreed. Did this as well and I finally have inserts that match.

#36 8 years ago

Glad it is working for everyone.
We are really enjoying the game better now that you can so easily tell when they are lit.

1 month later
#37 8 years ago

I put the resistor wires back in original location and put in two of the cointaker spike warm LED boards. I can totally recommend these as well. You don't need red, white will suffice as the insert lens is red already.

Rob

#38 8 years ago

Marking this so I can follow it... Just got a Pro. Hadn't noticed the inserts were dim, probably will now! Thanks a lot! haha

5 years later
#39 3 years ago

Thanks for this! Just wanted to insert a before/after image, for those the Premium/LE owners who might not experience the joy of this situation firsthand (and for new Pro owners who might also be wondering.) Just made the change on mine last night, the guidance was appreciated!

insertschange (resized).jpginsertschange (resized).jpg

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 40.00
Lighting - Interactive
Professor Pinball
Interactive

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/st-pro-two-right-enterprise-inserts-are-dim and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.