For someone to be complaining about the missing attract mode features then to immediately after ask about downgrade and backing up for downgrade, what should we think? Rules or play changes weren't even part of the consideration.

Good thing rarehero has you to blindly stick up for him.

Well then, bend over and grab your ankles, merry f*cking xmas!

Just like you justify incomplete games by giving everyone shit for even talking about missing or improvable features, now you're giving us shit because we're upset than an LE feature was just removed for no reason. Are you ever NOT awful!?!?!?

Blindly?

Please Mark, even you don't believe that crap. You know me better than that. I speak my mind...to a fault.

You haven't even answered the question. Do you know what the improvements are? We do know that the Enterprise is no longer backlit, and the photon torpedoes are gone from attract mode. That's a negative in my opinion. Where are the positives that would outweigh it, for a "real player"?

If you don't know, then why would you even make such a statement?

Wait, what? I think I hear Santa coming down the chimney........ tonight is a total disaster.....

I see that Ice has had more eggnog than he can handle tonight.

Oh I don't even have an LE and I think it totally sucks that the cool cabinet lighting is removed from the attract mode. That's not the issue here at all.

The issue is that you would consider downgrading the game based solely on missing attract mode lighting. Disgraceful. Forget any possible game play changes. As long as the game looks good sitting idle, right?

I can watch my TV with the game on & not feel like i'm at a Rave now.

Thank you Santa! Pure comedy gold.......

-post edited-

_{Post edited by robin : This kind of post is not welcome on Pinside.}

Well I do like the fact that they changed the auto shoot ball on Vengeance to go around the orbit instead of into the pops. I've had a couple where I didn't have a chance on the timer because the ball sat up in the pops to long.

You are the most unlikable human being on the planet -content removed-.
_{Post edited by robin : Ban vote issued.}

The issue wasn't addressed because its not the point. Rarehero wasn't saying "I wonder what game play changes there are". He didn't address game play at all. All we see is "the attract mode lights are missing. How do you back up for downgrade". That is my comment.

It may indeed be a good idea to downgrade. And based on lots of different criteria. But I don't see rarehero discussing any of that. Just missing attract mode lighting.

Ok, West Coast is all f*cked up right now...........

Then get a Premium, I like my rave!

I wouldn't even be complaining if all they did was take away the flashers. That actually makes some sense.

Taking away the dim backlit Enterprise? Not so much.

Same with the photon torpedoes. They could still have those go off, and just disable the flashers.

You can control how much purple you put in your games. You can control the insipid ways you desecrate AC/DCs. You do not control what I'm allowed to discuss. A feature was removed. I'm rightfully upset by it. Now please go away before you post more condescending unlikeable bullshit. Thank you, merry puppies and kitties.

Seriously?

This is what you are all worked up about? He didn't specifically comment about game play changes, so saying he disliked the fact that they did away with some of the attract mode features and wished that he had made a backup equates to you going on and on about it, and implying he's not a "real player"?

No real real player would consider a downgrade solely based on attract mode features.

Gee, Bandit, this really IS like TV. Didn't they all just spend the last episode gettin all worked up about gettin some new code before Christmas? And then, in this episode they got exactly what they were all bitchin about..some new code, and delivered from those friendly folk at the pinball factory right there on Christmas Eve. And now seems they're all bitchin about that as well. Well, If I was you, and I am, I'd change channel and go and watch that documentary on how all those poor Africans gotta carry water on their head for ten miles just to cook up some Christmas tree root.

Merry Christmas you fat, white, bastards.

Don't let Santa hear that sh*t, he still has a big bag of coal in the sled......

Why are you acting dimwitted tonight?

For the third time: WHAT ARE THE FEATURES THAT MAKE IT BETTER FOR A "REAL PLAYER"?

You keep assuming that the old code is a "downgrade" without giving any facts to back it up. If the only upgrades are a few more call outs and animations for example, I don't necessarily see that as a reason to upgrade...if it means losing some cool attract mode features.

We need to see the change log.. Now hug it out guys and don't forget to put cookies out for Santa.

As I already said, it may be ok to downgrade. No one seems to know what changed anyway. I haven't even once discussed whether its good to upgrade or bad to downgrade in this case. All I've pointed out is that rarehero has considered a downgrade based solely off missing attract mode features. Nothing else.

<edited>

I'll make this simple.

I got my game yesterday. Today a cool thing that was there is no longer there. I'm bummed out about it.

You wanna talk "real player"!?!? A real player doesn't have to add 60,000 purple lights to every game!!! A real player doesn't need gaudy non-matching powdercoated metal on every game! Who are you to judge me and what kind of player I am and call me "disgraceful" because I'm annoyed about a bug in the update?!

_{Post edited by The_Dude_Abides : Please no personal attacks we are just discussing pinball here.}

Well one thing that has been mentioned is at the start of Vengeance MB the ball is not diverted into the pops but loops around to the flipper. This is a big improvement as time is not wasted that you can use to knock the other ball loose to get the 3ball MB instead of 2. It has happened a few times where I never even got a shot cause the ball was in the pops too long.

Come on guys lets not make this into one of those threads it's Christmas time.

Any Pro owners able to confirm if shield targets actually do anything now? Man I sure hope so that sucked them not doing a single thing in the game in the previous released software.

lol ok this kinda made my Xmas eve.....

Thanks, and that's exactly the kind of example that I'm looking for.

I'm always here to help....

Im exhausted from xmas stuff. 2am on east coast but quick game and captains chair is not lit all the time on mine...

I hope they made it where you can get more then one award running at once.....(like super ramps & spinner or pops)

There's some new animation for Super Spinners....didn't notice any for Super Pops though.

It's weird how the Vengeance Multiball has the new weird redrawn Peter Weller - but the Vengeance Battle that sometimes has Weller has the old graphic.

Did the old version have stars behind the score? If not, that's new.

No idea.....I'll have to watch the gameplay video to see what the differences are. I cant play test it till the morning.

That would be sweet indeed. Perhaps if it was a bonus for hitting a four way combo while in the first started super mode.

Wow. That escalated quickly from reindeer poop to death wishes.

And you are right for the ? time.

You are a guinea pig and you did it to yourself.

No as far as I can tell the shield targets still do nothing.

Why would that not be the first thing they do/add on the pro code? Really, targets that do absolutely nothing after 3 updates? Pretty lame what a bummer man.

Here's what I got so far:

- Klingon battle level 2; new call outs and animations. I also seemed to breeze right through this in like 10 secs. Don't know if I nailed an amazing combo or if it's easier. Need to test more.

- new Klingon mb JP call out.

-Adjustment #33; reset multipliers at ball start. Don't remember seeing this before. Setting this to NO makes level 3 missions and scoring strategies more relevant.

- new warp animations unless I never noticed them before

- warp chase lights still don't always go off. But now they sometimes do double chase lights.

- level 2 & 3 prime directive: new animations. Also appears to be easier to complete. Now you just have to complete all the lit shots one time through instead of two. Need confirmation that it was 2 before; pretty positive it was.

- if level 2 & 3 missions are easier as they appear this adds a little more depth and strategy especially if you set feature adjustment #33 (above) to NO.

- combo champ is no longer shown in attract mode. (Bug?)

- no more LE features shown in attract mode. ( bug?)

- vengeance mb: goes around loop to flippers now not pops

- new replay animation?

- new super spinner and super ramp animations?

Rarehero is usually so eloquent with his rebuttal posts. What the hell did you guys do to him tonight? I never see Rarehero get so worked up. I do see his point though, he JUST got the machine and the siderail lights are really cool, it's what makes an LE an LE. It was kind of silly of Stern to remove them in attract mode. Just my opinion.

I'm kinda curious what they WOULD do on the Pro...since their function the Prem/LE is the kickback. Hmmmm.

I know, I am thinking the same thing! Really off topic but can you please post the felt tape fixes you did to your pro? My pin balls are getting REALLY chewed up too.

Simple ball save similar to JM's.

I'll try to do that as well as explain the fix I made to prevent ball hang ups on lower pop and post. Pro's do not (at least mine) have a screw with spacers in that area like on Premium/LE and I wasn't inclined to put such a drastic fix in for the issue.

Ball save ala Scared Stiff's cost cut kickback?

I'm hoping they do a "virtual" kickback on the Pro when you light them.

With mine it is flashing with the mode insert I am currently working on.

That was possible before by holding the left pin up.

I guess, but how would it be indicated? There's no kickback insert. Would it give it back to you on the left or right side? Or middle, too? Even without the kickback I think they should have left that insert there for this scenario.

My guess is a dot animation that shows your current shield levels on the pro and dot / apron lights for the LE that show your shield levels for use in a battle scene?

But on the LE I am even curious now about these shield apron lights , I looked underneath and was surprised at what I saw. I had imagined that each part of the shield level would have its own led, so that it could show some kind of level. But when I looked theres only 2 led's way down low, so it seems like there could only ever be maybe 2 levels of shields and maybe those 2 levels of shields correspont to the 2 targets. I don't know.

It's not complicated if they are lit it is activated (ball save) for left outlane once they un light then the shield is off and you must hit both to re light. Pretty simple kind of confusing why it has not been addressed. Having targets with inserts that serve no purpose in the software is pretty ridiculous IMO.