(Topic ID: 120717)

ST code IMPROVED!- Positive vibes thread

By shacklersrevenge

9 years ago


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There are 367 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 8.
15
#1 9 years ago

For those that haven't heard, looks like ST code is getting some of that lovin' we've all been waiting for, requesting one of the best players on the planet to try and exploit their ''new'' code...

From facebook:

Steve Ritchie‎:
Yesterday at 1:31pm ·
Keith, would you please be a ST beta tester? We need your talents to help make ST a tournament game again!
Lemme know!

Steve Ritchie: We asked Keith because we want him to help find exploitative strategies that encourage timing out of missions. He has discovered some in the recent past.
7 hrs · 4

Steve Ritchie: We have already done something in the new code...
7 hrs · 5

good stuff

#2 9 years ago

Nice ...looking foward to download it soon

#3 9 years ago

I am waiting for the code, but I am not in a big hurry. My pin is not going anywhere. I think it's best if they work on the code in a calm controlled manner. I mean, testing it for bugs, callout flow pace and completeness as well as adding other goodies maybe more advanced Away Team missions. I am thinking like Spiderman where there are some extra missions such as MJ, Bonesaw (etc.) which in ST could have to do with various away team missions. Basically to me the away team now are just extra points but no story.

I am waiting patiently. I don't care if it's this month or in a few months, the main thing for me, is that they do a good job and make it as fun and challenging as possible. I think this game is a winner as for the layout, it could be another AcDc or SM, but I think the rules as they are now are not good enough. Hopefully something constructive will be done, and the game will not be left in an incomplete or buggy state.

Thanks

#4 9 years ago

To me, the game has that Spiderman shot feeling to it, it just needs that extra polish like SM has.

Remember, SM was considered a dog when it was released, and is now considered one of if not the best Stern made and that is because the code is so excellent (I think SM is their best overall game and top 5 ever)

ST has all the right shots in it, and the dot matrix animation and light show are super sweet. The action at the ship/magnet like AFM is what sold me on the playfield to begin with. I hope new code includes more to do with a super jackpot collected behind that drop target- like you hit the ball in there, drop target pops up and then you have to hit the drop which hits the ball behind it, It's a very very satisfying shot when you do it during a multiball as it is,
It was a brilliant move with the last code to have to hit it on the magnet, to get more multiball balls,

#5 9 years ago

I think ST has more flow than SM *except* the mission start and away team shots. To me, I can't hit those shots on the fly or even with great accuracy so it comes down to a lot of flow, followed by 20-30 seconds of trying to hit the away team shot.

IMO if there was a better way to start a mission such as a specific shot for each mission or each mission being able to advance to stage 2,3 automatically after you complete the first stage.

Just IMO you have a game like AcDc where you only have to hit the song change saucer a couple times a game typical. But with ST you need to hit mode select every 30-40 seconds.

#6 9 years ago

As long as they let modes be timed out, and be infinitely restartable, there will be a scoring exploit. There's no way around that. The higher values of the level 3 modes, combined with multipliers from other mode completions and combo 2x'ing shots is going to unbalance anything they do. All they CAN do is set the value of all shots in any 3rd mode to be exactly the same, and people will just pick the one that has the easiest shots to combo or complete.

I don't even get why this is being removed. It's not SUPER easy to do to start with, and it offers some alternative other than going for the multiball or wizard modes, and requires a ton of shots to Away Team or mode start saucer, which most players suck at shooting, and even good players flub it here and there, sending the ball out of control. If you really want to maximize points in PD3, you've got to have the Right Ramp, left ramp, left orbit, warp ramp combo DOWN, and be able to recover the ball, plus those shots...eh?

#7 9 years ago

Rules aside, is there also an issue with the volume levels on the Bones call outs now? Or was that much ado about nothing? I would love to see this game elevate to something special.

#8 9 years ago

What if there is no mode restart? Once a mode times out or you drain, the mode is done. That would encourage good players to play the modes to make points and prevent exploiting timeouts. For less advanced players, it will help them advance further into the game. Ramp multipliers or whatever rewards will have to be earned by completing modes.

#9 9 years ago

The whole reason they made it so you had to finish the modes or restart them was to keep people from advancing BY timing them out.

I'm interested to see what their solution is...maybe make every repeat of the same mode worth less and less. I can't think of any other way to keep the "must complete" dynamic without screwing it all up.

#10 9 years ago

I am just glad it isn't improving in negative ways.

#11 9 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

The whole reason they made it so you had to finish the modes or restart them was to keep people from advancing BY timing them out.

I don't have that much experience on ST with the latest code (The one I play on route still has old code ) but couldn't they pause the mode timer if a switch isn't activated within a few seconds so at least people can't cradle and time out modes?

#12 9 years ago

Bowen had a good idea posted on the facebook, and that is to just make the L2 scoring pick up where L1 scoring left off. I do think L2 shots should ultimately be worth more as you advance since there are generally fewer lit shots to hit. But the starting value based on L1 makes sense.

Others have mentioned using the Away Team shot in L2 and L3 modes, and I would agree but we don't necessarily need more Galactic Modes, although maybe some could still have them. Maybe it could also be used for a time extender or add-a-shot. I keep pushing for add-a-shot because that's one of the best features of STTNG in Q's Mission. They could also do it with the BH target, really useful for L3 modes that require do-over if you fail.

Something else that would be really lucrative for L1 modes is that that combo shots should add more to the base shot value, and the amount is directly tied to how the size of the combo string. Right now the base value increases by the same amount for each made shot. But what if your 2nd combo added 2x the value, the 3rd added 3x, etc. Similarly, the Warp Ramp combo shouldn't max out at 1M, keep it going, 1.1M, 1.3M, 1.6M, 2M (adding 100K, 200K, 300K to the base value based on number of combos). I also keep requesting that something in the game increase the base value of the multiball jackpots, 'cause I love them STTNG rules that do that with your left cannon shot and your pop bumpers. This would be a great Warp award, every 3rd or 4th Warp bumps the base jackpot value. Mmmmm, tasty.

#13 9 years ago
Quoted from spidey:

Bowen had a good idea posted on the facebook, and that is to just make the L2 scoring pick up where L1 scoring left off. I do think L2 shots should ultimately be worth more as you advance since there are generally fewer lit shots to hit. But the starting value based on L1 makes sense.

Makes sense to me too. Unsure about the rest, but I would definitively support that change.

#14 9 years ago

Question, What would improving in negative ways look like?

#15 9 years ago

Wouldn't removing the cap on Kobiashi values prevent the time out strategy? I can get 6+ million on level one modes but in Kobiashi it seems like it caps the value at 2 million or so. If you could get the full value of the mode you played that would make playing those modes much more lucrative.

I'm curious to see how they polish this up. Great game with even more potential so I'm getting excited to see what they came up with.

-1
#16 9 years ago

Largest exploit is cradling balls during multiball. On FP the flippers will go dead after 5 seconds if energised so you can't treat Multiball as 2 extra balls. I'd like to see this killed on all games.

#17 9 years ago

I don't really care what they do to tweak the scoring, just somehow please make the mode start and away team shots less critical to progressing through the game. They're the least-fun shots in the game and difficult for novice players to hit at all.

#18 9 years ago
Quoted from DarkWizard:

Question, What would improving in negative ways look like?

Xmen xmas power pack
Or TF xmas power pack (which there was none).

#19 9 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

I don't really care what they do to tweak the scoring, just somehow please make the mode start and away team shots less critical to progressing through the game. They're the least-fun shots in the game and difficult for novice players to hit at all.

I'm not sure what they could do; the insert specifically says mission start. They added away team shot as means of starting it also shortly after which was a very good decision.

Perhaps if in between missions you get a 3 - way combo or maybe if you hit the warp ramp the vengeance could be lit as well to start a mission?

A tweak to one of my original ideas way back when would be when you start a GAT mode, light the mission start/away team and if made, allow the player to start a level 2 mission that would stack with the GAT mode. The problem with too much stacking on a fast-flow shooters game like ST is the code and call outs could get messy.

Personally I think it's fine as is but give the player a way to complete a level 1 mission instead of it being just a timed mode. That way the player can switch and progress to the next mission or continue racking up level 1 mission/GAT shots until the timer expired. Risk/reward - continue getting bunches of points and a shot at that 'final shot' bonus OR shoot mission start/away team and move on to the next mission.

#20 9 years ago

I think it woudl be good to have some sort of way to advance modes without relying on only the mode start and away team. I like the idea of a 3 way combo also enabling it with the vengence being the 3rd shot so it can hold the ball while you select the next mode.

They could always do the cheapy 'fix' of having a timer not progress for more than X seconds unless a switch is being hit. Other games have used this strategy but with pretty easy to hit and trap ramps I don't consider this a viable or fun way to force play in tier 1 levels.

#21 9 years ago

Ability to stack L1 modes would be awesome; they'd have to limit the music/speech/dmd effects to just one of the current-running modes, but would be a nice way to get through them more quickly. Just seems the L2-3 modes are much more fun, and there's twelve of them.... such a pain to play thru the first six throwaway modes just to get to them.

#22 9 years ago
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

I hope new code includes more to do with a super jackpot collected behind that drop target- like you hit the ball in there, drop target pops up and then you have to hit the drop which hits the ball behind it,

I have always been disappointed that they didn't utilize the drop target like this. It seems like a real missed opportunity.

#23 9 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Ability to stack L1 modes would be awesome

Yes, it would.

Starting a few modes and using a multiball to finish them is fun on The Simpsons Pinball Party.

#24 9 years ago

Successfull Warp-Ramp shots could let you start a second mission.

Let it limit to max 2 or 3 concurrent ones and (if more than 2) add a timeout for starting new one, so you can not start the subsequent one with an easy douple/triple/xxx warp

#25 9 years ago
Quoted from Biv:

Successfull Warp-Ramp shots could let you start a second mission.
Let it limit to max 2 or 3 concurrent ones and (if more than 2) add a timeout for starting new one, so you can not start the subsequent one with an easy douple/triple/xxx warp

How would you have time to choose a new one without the ball being held?

#26 9 years ago

I wrote it in a different thread, but one way to solve this issue would be to add a simpler third way to start a new mission... that would come with a price (lower jackpot values for example).

This way good players would keep looking for the current mode starts and actively avoid that third shot, while casual players would look for it.

#27 9 years ago
Quoted from metallik:

Ability to stack L1 modes would be awesome; they'd have to limit the music/speech/dmd effects to just one of the current-running modes, but would be a nice way to get through them more quickly. Just seems the L2-3 modes are much more fun, and there's twelve of them.... such a pain to play thru the first six throwaway modes just to get to them.

You can stack mode 1 2 and 3 and you can get to L2 and L3 by picking same mode over and over

#28 9 years ago
Quoted from ek77:

You can stack mode 1 2 and 3 and you can get to L2 and L3 by picking same mode over and over

That's not stacking. An example of stacking would be being able to play space jump, space jump 2, and space jump 3, all at the same time.

On The Simpsons Pinball Party, starting a new mode not only allows you to continue playing any currently active modes, it also resets the mode timer. This makes for some good multiball opportunities.

#29 9 years ago

Shooting the Vengeance ship would probably be the most logical way as an alternative to starting a mission. The magnet could hold the ball while you pick the next mission. Hit the fire button to select and bingo, your off.

#30 9 years ago

I think if you just increased points exponentially in level 1 modes (ie. Each shot is worth 250,000 x 2^(n-1)) then that would make the level 1 modes worth shooting for (1st shot 250k, second 500k, 3rd 1mil, 4th 2mil, 5th 4mil, 6th 8mil, etc.)

It would reward consistent and fast play instantaneously, and again in KM multiball.

That's my opinion. Exponential scoring in level 1 timed modes, then level 2 and 3 modes just have a stronger stable score.

I think that's counter intuitive to not bulk up the points towards the end of the game, but if a mode plays for 30 seconds, you should think about how difficult it is to make 12 shots in 30 seconds, 15, 20 etc. That would treat each mode as a mini-wizard mode, making it so that you could play fast and accurate in 1 minute and end up with a better score than someone timing out modes for 10 minutes trying to get to something better. View each mode as a miniature game. If a person can make 15 shots in 30 seconds they should be rewarded for it!

#31 9 years ago
Quoted from Hudson:

Shooting the Vengeance ship would probably be the most logical way as an alternative to starting a mission. The magnet could hold the ball while you pick the next mission. Hit the fire button to select and bingo, your off.

This with some sort of multiplier for hitting AT or MS.

HOWEVER, sounds like the new code is nearing completion and anything additional may be difficult to implement at this time.

#32 9 years ago

Just glad it seems that code on ST is rolling again.

"Being worked on"
"Being tested"

And "Finished" are all completely different things.

#33 9 years ago

I'd like to see some cool new things though. While I'm probably dreaming here, it wouldn't be that hard to put in the updated code:

Backwards flippers like TSPP during second round of vengeance or other,

Drop target ball capture- hit the drop target to hit the held ball behind the drop. Make it a jackpot or an add a ball or ball save timer for multiball. Can limit it too, but it could aid in the progression of the multiball mode.

Superrrrrrrrr JACKPOOOOOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (someone get on the mic and scream!) think AFM/LOTR, i don't want to hear whispers like the current (super jackpot...) Almost like he's embarrassed to say it.

#34 9 years ago
Quoted from erak:

Just glad it seems that code on ST is rolling again.
"Being worked on"
"Being tested"
And "Finished" are all completely different things.

Yes but "being tested" is light years closer to "finished".

#35 9 years ago
Quoted from jlm33:

I wrote it in a different thread, but one way to solve this issue would be to add a simpler third way to start a new mission... that would come with a price (lower jackpot values for example).
This way good players would keep looking for the current mode starts and actively avoid that third shot, while casual players would look for it.

I like that idea because personally I like the current "mode start" shots. Behind the flipper is a little tougher (but fun) and the one on the far left isn't that hard....a few tries maybe. My personal favorite "combo shot" in this game is having both locks lit; shoot the center shot and then nail the left lock as the ball drops from the center......so satisfying.

#36 9 years ago
Quoted from shacklersrevenge:

Superrrrrrrrr JACKPOOOOOOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (someone get on the mic and scream!) think AFM/LOTR, i don't want to hear whispers like the current (super jackpot...) Almost like he's embarrassed to say it.

Have you ever gotten the double super jackpot in Klingon Multiball? The callout is f*ing awesome!

#37 9 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Have you ever gotten the double super jackpot in Klingon Multiball? The callout is f*ing awesome!

Yes! the double super jackpot is up there with the best; LoTR, TAF, etc... Its an awesome call out and hard to do and rare which makes it even better!

#38 9 years ago

I always look at audits on games and use that data to help decide what is the obvious weak point that could use improvement on any game.

Without a doubt very few people make it very deep into the game in its current coding. Why? Because they don't progress through modes very quickly or they do so, but do it by timing out and making lots of "don't shoot right now" decision. This does not make for fun pinball.

I have looked extensively at audits for the one we have on route. I can tell you that FEW ever make it beyond all teir 1 modes and moset are only seeing 1/3 or les of the game in its current state. A decent location player should over time be able to see a much greater % of the game and be able to do so in games that still don't take 20 minutes of controlled play.

Fun pinball with lastability comes from giving players more control and more 'active choices for how to move around the table.

ST needs more opportuntities to keep things moving and allowing players to more appropriately make 'active' decisions while balancing risk v reward (both in physical shot and code/point/progression choice). The game is too linear and wood chopping in its current form but a better rule set and decision tree can make this game really shine.

The game has been out long enough now that there is a real glut of data to understand how people are playingthe game and how to tweak the code to make them "play better" while also making the game more fun.

#39 9 years ago
Quoted from gweempose:

Have you ever gotten the double super jackpot in Klingon Multiball? The callout is f*ing awesome!

Too bad the points aren't But hopefully fixed soon!

#40 9 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I always look at audits on games and use that data to help decide what is the obvious weak point that could use improvement on any game.
Without a doubt very few people make it very deep into the game in its current coding. Why? Because they don't progress through modes very quickly or they do so, but do it by timing out and making lots of "don't shoot right now" decision. This does not make for fun pinball.
I have looked extensively at audits for the one we have on route. I can tell you that FEW ever make it beyond all teir 1 modes and moset are only seeing 1/3 or les of the game in its current state. A decent location player should over time be able to see a much greater % of the game and be able to do so in games that still don't take 20 minutes of controlled play.
Fun pinball with lastability comes from giving players more control and more 'active choices for how to move around the table.
ST needs more opportuntities to keep things moving and allowing players to more appropriately make 'active' decisions while balancing risk v reward (both in physical shot and code/point/progression choice). The game is too linear and wood chopping in its current form but a better rule set and decision tree can make this game really shine.
The game has been out long enough now that there is a real glut of data to understand how people are playingthe game and how to tweak the code to make them "play better" while also making the game more fun.

all good points.

#41 9 years ago

I love the idea of a super jackpot being trapping a ball in the vengeance and then hitting the drop target. That would be fun.

I have gotten decent at making the start mission shot regularly but the away team is super hard. Some games I can't make either shot to save my life. Very frustrating. Using the vengeance to start a mode would be nice but having an auto mission start for a black hole award would be nice, too. You would not be able to choose but that would be okay. Other games do this so it would make sense.

#42 9 years ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

I love the idea of a super jackpot being trapping a ball in the vengeance and then hitting the drop target. That would be fun.
I have gotten decent at making the start mission shot regularly but the away team is super hard. Some games I can't make either shot to save my life. Very frustrating. Using the vengeance to start a mode would be nice but having an auto mission start for a black hole award would be nice, too. You would not be able to choose but that would be okay. Other games do this so it would make sense.

that brings up a good point - if the player shoots mission start or away team then they should get to select their next mission. If they shoot the vengeance magnet then the game selects for them. I really like that idea.

#43 9 years ago

here is my concern when all is said and done....are they just working on the code to eliminate exploiting timing out modes? So many great ides have been written about here over the past 8 months...just worried that all that is being done to get the game to tournament level is eliminating the timing out of modes.

#45 9 years ago

I'd really like the Bones callouts reduced in volume and reduced in quantity (seriously, you'd think Bones was the Commander, Captain and villain with all his speech in the last release!) ... the choreography is just awful... Bones saying the lead ship is raising shields and powering up weapons when I'm two shots from finishing Kobayashu... soundcalls repeated consecutively, etc.

Would be nice to get it all sorted out, BUT since that is stuff that can be mostly fixed with piballbrowser, I'd be satisfied with rule adjustments and bug fixes at this point.

#46 9 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Don't be worried.

ill hold you to that

#47 9 years ago
Quoted from pinBilly:

That's not stacking. An example of stacking would be being able to play space jump, space jump 2, and space jump 3, all at the same time.
On The Simpsons Pinball Party, starting a new mode not only allows you to continue playing any currently active modes, it also resets the mode timer. This makes for some good multiball opportunities.

No you can not stack in the way you do in TSPP but you do stack the same mode to get a quick trip to L2 and L3

#48 9 years ago
Quoted from Astropin:

shoot the center shot and then nail the left lock as the ball drops from the center......so satisfying.

Totally 100% agree. I usually try to do this every time.

#49 9 years ago

Something that I have always thought would have been a nice touch for the game would have been to make the Away Team a separate running event that worked a lot like the Super Jackpot on ACDC. Spelling Trek lights Away Team with that becoming more difficult each time. Shooting Away Team beams a group into a side mission scored separate from the modes but held back as a growing bonus to be earned or lost with a drain - the same as ACDC. Maybe your combos shots build your away team score. You choose when to bring the team back to the ship by completing the Beam Me Up rollovers. When you get them safely aboard you earn the value of the Away Team mission to your score. Lose the ball and lose it all. You can keep the team on the surface for as long as you dare to.

This would make the rollovers more interesting because you would have to keep from completing them for a change. Because of this though I would make spelling TREK the bonus X or even better the Warp ramp.

That, or something like it feels like what away team should be. On the LE and prem. models the combo arrows could be a different color when an away team is running. It could also be an increasing value as your mission level climbs. There are so many possibilities for this part of the game to create a stacking feel and add to the intensity of the game.

#50 9 years ago

I just picked up a NIB STPRO last weekend and I've got a LOT to learn about the gameplay!
One thing for sure, the layout, the flow, the brilliance of the LED lighting is a HomeRun! Gorgeous!
My NIB Metallica Pro w/ regular lighting looks so plain in comparison.

I thought I was dropping out of the NIB Club but couldn't resist buying after playing it on location and at a friend's.

This game has so much potential from what I've been reading (code) but for now, it's a blast!!

FYI, the BORN ON DATE was Feb 11 2015, so Stern made another run of these. My friend bought one two weeks ago and his was from August 2014 (different dealer thou).

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