Squawk &amp; Talk Problems

Steve, the Wiki has some info regarding flashes, etc. have you tried Leon's ROM?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#4 8 years ago

AMS

barakandl

What happens when you push the sound board's diag button? Does it play a bunch of speech calls, one sound effect and then reboot? If that test is good, yet the sound test the the coin door button does not play correct, i would check the input connector and the 4049.

Put the game in sound test. Go to the input buffer/inverter on the sound board. Check to see they all the encoded signals make it through. I believe four are used and then there is an enable signal which i believe also routes through that 4049.

#5 8 years ago

???

justenough

Inactive member

Barak, Thanks for the info. And yes when I push the diag button it plays a bunch of calls and then it reboots. If I push the test button on the coin door for it to say game over I get a buzz on and off. I just checked the encoded signals and they are all making it through.
Looks like I will replace the 4049. Chris I do know what Leon's ROM is. Thanks Again Steve

#6 8 years ago

AMS

barakandl

Check out the outputs of the 4049. Also make sure that the board is jumpered right. Not all games use the ee jumpers / sound generator

#7 8 years ago

DEA

Richard_BoK

Inactive member

10y 15,400 276

Selftest setting 18 has been set to 03?

#8 8 years ago

???

justenough

Inactive member

Well guys I changed out the 4049 no help. The board is jumped right. Don't no what selftest setting is. So it still is not playing game over
or any other tune. Steve

#9 8 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

There really isn't too much to the S&T board.
typical issues...
...incorrect or damaged jumpers (there is a complete list in the PinWiki)
...craptastic ScanBe sockets
...fractured header joints
...dried out caps (which you already replaced)
...craptastic OEM 1000 ohm trim pots
...tarnished legs on ICs...that sometimes break off
...failed AY-89xx IC
...failed 6821

That's about it.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#10 8 years ago

BIF

CactusJack

Pinside member

What do you mean by Game Over? Do you mean the sound that it makes while it's selecting the match or the last sound after match when it fades out?

For self test, it is referring to the book keeping function but there are a number of items related to sound and credit vs extra ball etc.

So press the test button on the coin door until function #18 is displayed and the use the credit button to change the value to 03. You will find you need to let go at 02 to end up with 03 in the display. Make sure to loop around back to zero to insure a true 03 setting.

#11 8 years ago

???

justenough

Inactive member

Jack, Thanks for the reply, Well I did what you said went to #18 put it to 03 makes noise all the time you play. Had to go back to 02.
When you push the test button 5 times it is supposed to play game over and keep playing it. I just get noise on and off. When I turn the game on for the first time I get noise and that's it. Then it says Eight Ball Deluxe. I went and re-soldered the J1 terminals that PinWiKi wants me to do and I reflowed all the IC sockets. Still no worky.

#12 8 years ago

TAL

Tallon

Pinside member

Schofield, WI

9y 66,550 1,243 16

Sounds like it's time to ship it out for repair

1 week later

#13 8 years ago

???

justenough

Inactive member

Thanks, Everyone for the info. Replaced the two 6821s and the AY-89XX. No luck, Do you think I might have a Bad ROM When you push the test button 5 times it is supposed to play game over and keep playing it. I just get noise on and off. When I turn the game on for the first time I get noise and that's it. Then it says Eight Ball Deluxe. The same noise I get when I first turn it on and game over is the same.
this game was just sitting for about three years. I am going to replace all the IC sockets not looking forward to that. Thanks Steve.

#14 8 years ago

DEA

Richard_BoK

Inactive member

10y 15,400 276

OP
Quoted from justenough:
Thanks, Everyone for the info. Replaced the two 6821s and the AY-89XX. No luck, Do you think I might have a Bad ROM When you push the test button 5 times it is supposed to play game over and keep playing it. I just get noise on and off. When I turn the game on for the first time I get noise and that's it. Then it says Eight Ball Deluxe. The same noise I get when I first turn it on and game over is the same.
this game was just sitting for about three years. I am going to replace all the IC sockets not looking forward to that. Thanks Steve.

Why do you think you have a bad IC?
The fact that it says "eight ball deluxe" proves that all ic's in the voice part are functioning correctly.
And the fact that is boots shows all the major IC's are working as well.

OP
Quoted from justenough:
Barak, Thanks for the info. And yes when I push the diag button it plays a bunch of calls and then it reboots. If I push the test button on the coin door for it to say game over I get a buzz on and off.

Sounds to me like your soundboard is working perfectly.
The signals coming from the MPU are probably faulty.

Do all the solenoids work properly? The signals from the MPU to the soundboard are the same as to the momentary solenoids.

The signals coming from the MPU to the soundboard are also very short (2 nybbles of 100 usec and 1000+ usec respectively), so the signals may give problems when the connectors are having bad connection-problems (corrosion on U11 on the MPU perhaps???)

#15 8 years ago

???

justenough

Inactive member

So I put the game back together, If I push the red button on the Squawk and talk board it goes thru all the balls then it reboots makes a crash noise and says Eight Ball Deluxe. If I push the button on the door to #5 it sounds like the crash noise and just keeps repeating that noise. All the solenoids are working find. So my question is: Is it the MPU or is it the Squawk & talk board. What noise is made by what board?. Thanks Steve

#16 8 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

The red button shorts the NMI (non-maskable interrupt) line (pin 6) to ground.
This causes the CPU to execute the sound diagnostic, making all the voice calls through all the balls, etc.
Your board is working correctly in that regard.

I've never tried the coin door button diagnostic.

Does the game make the correct sounds during game play?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#17 8 years ago

BIF

CactusJack

Pinside member

My game takes 4 pushes of the coin door test button to get to a double beat sound (sorry, can't describe it better). The next press (5) gets me to switch test which makes a simple Bing tone if a switch is closed.

I wonder if his bad sounds are coming from a bad DAC chip (not used on all S&T boards). That would explain noise for only a few items.

#18 8 years ago

BIF

CactusJack

Pinside member

Okay, I just confirmed that by removing my U10 (AD558JD) you lose the sound that is made at the 4th push of the coin door test button.

So my guess would be that your U10 is bad. Pull it and see if the noise you hear is replaced by silence.

#19 8 years ago

AMS

barakandl

bad pia / pia socket could muck up the DAC inputs as well and cause improper noise.

#20 8 years ago

BIF

CactusJack

Pinside member

Quoted from barakandl:
bad pia / pia socket could muck up the DAC inputs as well and cause improper noise.

Are you sure about that? You've probably worked on a ton more of these than I but from what I can see on the schematic, the Data lines on U10 are directly on the MPU data bus, not going through a PIA port?

But, as previously suggested, maybe it is time for the OP to send the board out to someone with the proper equipment and spare ICs to swap around.

#21 8 years ago

AMS

barakandl

Quoted from CactusJack:
Are you sure about that? You've probably worked on a ton more of these than I but from what I can see on the schematic, the Data lines on U10 are directly on the MPU data bus, not going through a PIA port?
But, as previously suggested, maybe it is time for the OP to send the board out to someone with the proper equipment and spare ICs to swap around.

i had wms sound boards on the brain. i thought the pia fed the DAC, but it is cpu databus and the inverted external clock...

#22 8 years ago

???

justenough

Inactive member

Well guys, I pulled the U10. I pushed the door switch 4 times and it went silence. With the U10 pulled, I started the game up
I had the strange sound on start up still. So that must not control that series of sounds Here are two videos. One of the sound that should say game over. And the second is the first noise you hear I do not know what it should sound like. Well I guess I can not send them. My question is there has to be two separate noise sources. But one common amp or ? the noise sound about the same.

#23 8 years ago

BIF

CactusJack

Pinside member

Actually, there are 3 sources of sound (AY3-8912, TMS5220, and the AD558 digital to analog converter). There are two trim pots to balance sounds, and a single audio amp.

Did you forget to embed the videos or post a link?

#24 8 years ago

???

justenough

Inactive member

Anybody know how to get a MP4 video on here. Took it on phone will not let me attach. Thanks.

#25 8 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

Upload it to YT and post the link.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#26 8 years ago

DEA

Richard_BoK

Inactive member

10y 15,400 276

My guess is still in the direction of U11 on the MPU, or the connections between U11(MPU) and the soundboard interface.
Or the interface IC for those signals on the S&T (U16).

U10 must be good since it produces sound.

Can you test with another S&T or MPU? That would at least show which board is causing problems.

BTW: a S&T soundboard does make background noise (as in sounds / hums / perhaps even an explosion-wannabe), but don't expect any clear melody for that kind of machine.
It's the best of the best .... from 1980....

#27 8 years ago

???

justenough

Inactive member

Well Everyone, THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HELP. Brought the boards over to a Pinball Wizard we pull them in a game he had did a little work on them and every thing is running smooth. So I say again THANK YOU. Steve

#28 8 years ago

BIF

CactusJack

Pinside member

OP
Quoted from justenough:
Well Everyone, THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HELP. Brought the boards over to a Pinball Wizard we pull them in a game he had did a little work on them and every thing is running smooth. So I say again THANK YOU. Steve

If possible, it would really help to know exactly what was done to fix it. Many of these posts serve as a service Archive when others search with similar problems.

Glad you got it going.

#29 8 years ago

???

justenough

Inactive member