(Topic ID: 260762)

Squawk & Talk Possible Data Issue?

By cooperscooter

2 years ago


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#1 2 years ago

Questions for my Squawk & Talk Bally folks! I have a Vector with a 100% repeatable issue that I am sure lives on the S&T. When two switches are hit in play, background sounds are silenced until they are brought back by a kicker being set off. All ROMs are freshly reprogrammed, all PIAs are working, as is the CPU (externally verified) and all chips reset back into their sockets properly. A cap kit was also performed by a previous owner (and looks OK). The switches work and score and this behavior preexisted on the stock -35MPU and continue with the AlltekSystems model. As this isn’t a switch error, I am trying to figure out which sound input line is failing here - all voices work, with a mysterious “Period Completed!” In the launch lane (strikes me as an error, too).

The 4049 IC tests good in my IC tester, all gates reporting in OK, and I am working to verify the 75LS155 demux. I'm wondering if one half of the demux is dead, and half still working, but I don't have any spares to prove this so I will order a few for fun.

Since I cannot know by inference what sound/voice is triggered by switch 35 in play (that left outlane) I can't know what line is shot in advance of just poking around and working every permutation. I have the same issue with switch 12, which is the rollover in the launch lane - the one that yells "Period Completed!" - what would it normally say?

I have a video of all this in demonstration, as well as a video of the switch matrix test (for the non-believers) and foolishly posted this to a FB group first, here:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/609432482409545/permalink/3069635316389237/

That link, if you can load it, will show you the videos I made, as I can't export them here yet (they're on my phone). The "advice" I got there was staggeringly useless, but well, it was an attempt to find someone with the experience (plenty of people with heart there, to be sure, including the ones trying to help).

Any ideas on how I can run this down?

demux (resized).jpg
#4 2 years ago
Quoted from jj44114:

When you launch a ball it should say "Vector" after hitting the rollover.

AH, a hint! Yes, it reliably and always screams about an end of a period - that was my first clue. This helps!

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

I can't answer your question directly, but have you checked to make sure all of your jumpers are in the right positions? http://www.pinrepair.com/bally/ballyrm1.htm

I will check this when I get back to the board - I can verify that it was running stock 2532s, but perhaps the jumpers were messed up by the previous tech when the cap refresh was conducted...good idea to check again!

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from algum123:

I have a spare 74LS155 you can have. Plus a S&T out of my Spectrum you can borrow to compare against if needed...

I cannot borrow anything from you until I repatriate you with some 2564s, which I now have, good friend. Say hello to your dear wife for me, and I will reach out to see if we can arrange some chip exchanges!

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from drsfmd:

I can't answer your question directly, but have you checked to make sure all of your jumpers are in the right positions? http://www.pinrepair.com/bally/ballyrm1.htm

And, this is all I see that is "different:"

If speech is... ...then jumper this way
--------------- -----------------------------------
Required install J and remove H

Not required install H and remove J

Mine shows "not required" per the jumpers...I think this is incorrect for Vector??? Several others have been hit with solder, so this board was possibly in a different config before I got the machine.

#9 2 years ago

Guys...so, under further inspection, I am using a 2518-61 board, not a 2518-61B model - and my schematic calls for the B model for Vector. I can verify that I do NOT have the three transistors off the speech module, Q3,4, and 5, in the upper right of the board. Could the earlier board model be my issue???

#10 2 years ago

Yeah..research seems to show that a bare 2518-61 is used in a Flash Gordon. The A model was used in

Eight Ball Deluxe
Embryon
Fireball II
Fathom
Medusa
Eight Ball Champ
Beat The Clock

And the B model was used in

Centaur
Elektra
Vector
Rapid Fire
Mr. & Mrs. Pac-Man
Spectrum
Centaur II
Eight Ball Deluxe LE (Assumed)

And based on what I see in the schematics, they are indeed different in the speech sections, which is where my issue lies.

So, who needs a Flash Gordon Squawk and Talk?

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

The missing Q3, Q4 and Q5 transistors appear to simply switch power to the speech chip after /RESET becomes inactive - might have been to prevent undesirable noises when the power switch was flicked on.
"All of the different variations of this board should work on all games" as stated in PinWiki.
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Bally/Stern#Squawk_.26_Talk_Sound_Board_.28AS-2518-61.29
The specific jumper settings per game are also listed.
I don't think the board version is your issue. You can prove it by programming Flash Gordon sound ROMs for the board and jumpering as so - if there's still no speech when you press the test button on the board you know you still have a fault to track down.
Does the board have the AY-3-8912 sound generator at U12 and is it enabled by the lack of "EE" jumpers?
What have you got audit #18 set to which is for sound settings? Different values will cause the game to generate sounds from different components on the sound board. Generally speaking setting "03" is preferred for the best sound effects.
BTW, with Audit #18 set to "03" switch 35 on the playfield produces a sound from the AD558 DAC on the sound board.
The following is the list of the sound commands (in HEX) sent to the S&T board that produce speech: Comms between the MPU board and S&T are 4 bits wide so commands are sent as two nibbles - lower nibble first then upper nibble.
14= Vector
15= Defender
16= Weak Shot
17= Shot
18= Great Shot
19= Super Shot
1A= Incredible Shot
1B= Shoot for X
1C= Shoot for Z
1D= Macro Power
1E= Shoot for Hype Targets
1F= Shoot for Vector Scan
20= Strategy Changed
21= Resume Play
22= Shoot for H
23= Shoot for Y
24= Shoot for P
25= Shoot for E
26= Shoot for
27= Great Save
28= Hit the Showers
29= I am a PAC, Play Analysis Computer, For your Vector Game Plan
2A= Play Analysis Computer, For your Vector Game Plan
2B= For your Vector Game Plan
2C= One Captured
2D= Two Captured
2E= Three Captured
2F= Defenders Down
30= Standby for Vector Scan
31= Welcome to Vector Dome
32= Defence in Position
33= Vector Scan
34= Captured
35= X
36= Y
37= Z
38= Period Completed
39= Vector Scan Value
3A= Double Vector Scan Value
3B= Triple Vector Scan Value
3C= Vector
3D= Energy Stored
3E= Offence Released
3F= New Vector Record
40= H
41= Y
42= P
43= E
44= Hellopy???
45= Take Aim repeat???
C6= Vector
C8= Vector
CA= I am A PAC
D6= Vector
D8= Vector
DA= I am A PAC

This is EXACTY the mapping I was looking for - thank you! Yes, yes, all of my settings are exactly as you have described (Audit 18 at 03, EE jumpers removed, etc). With this mapping, though, I can now possibly spot a pattern to what I see in my game.

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from jj44114:

One thing to check is if you have roms populated in U2, U3 U4 and U5. I think vector might have been the only game with all four rom locations being used.

I have, burned them myself twice, and check the checksums twice, too.

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from jj44114:

One thing to check is if you have roms populated in U2, U3 U4 and U5. I think vector might have been the only game with all four rom locations being used.

Yes, I have all four - 2532s that program as they should and the jumpers reflect the config for them.

1 week later
#20 2 years ago
Quoted from jj44114:

You mentioned earlier that when you launch a ball activating the switch in the shooter lane the callout is “period completed” instead of “vector”. In switch test when you manually activate that switch does it give the correct switch number?

Yes, it does - all switches report and work as they should, hence, why I posted here. I wish it was simply a switch matrix issue...

#21 2 years ago
Quoted from jj44114:

search you tube for Bally vector sound and you will find a couple videos of the S&T self test to compare yours to.

I have - I have never seen a data issue like this - this isn't typical. I need to scan the input bus for what it sees, but was looking for a quicker route so I'm not on the bench scanning for bits and nybbles with my o-scope for hours.

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