Ah, I get you now. That’s good advice. I think Spooky will be ready…I hope. I love their business model…really appreciate their customers.

Spooky were doing fine before FOMO. They’ll continue to be fine with or without it.

And the new pricing is an issue for all manufacturers. At least Spooky are a well run small business owned by one family that hasn’t over expanded and can be flexible if need be. Different story if you had huge overheads with investors on board.

I have no idea how Spooky suddenly became the pariah and are on Pinside credit watch? Ice, you listening to too many podcasts?

The funny thing - Spooky never set out to create FOMO.

The public did it all by themselves.

Spooky were more surprised than anyone when games started selling out day one.

They used to give AMH/RZ customers first dibs, all of a sudden there were more of those guys than games available. So they did the Fang Club to try and give those guys day one access.

They never thought in a million years that 700+ people would sign up so they could get the R&M games at launch. And 1000+ for HW/UM.

So yeah - there was FOMO. But Spooky didn’t set out to create it. Pinballers did all that themselves.

Just like they do with every Stern LE release.

rd

Anyone here have the honesty to admit they won’t put another “non-refundable” deposit down again on any game?

The fact of the matter is that despite what I might like in Halloween or you there are plenty of unhappy FOMO buyers.

They won’t be able to get away with it again. The “public” is done with that model re Spooky

But good for them taking advantage of it

They have done a great job but they aren’t Stern and too many people got burned with Halloween

IF they attempt the non-refundable deposit again it will go over like a lead balloon

You know it

Sorry man…gonna prove you wrong. Like I said…lots of companies have non-refundable deposits…and if I like the next Spooky…I’m in…if I get a slot.

Talking of money … Icey, send me your $10,000 USD and I’ll make you your Texas game.

There won’t be as much drinking and slacking as in that other thread, and I guarantee it’ll be all done by Xmas time.

I have a great EM here I can retheme for it - it’ll come up minty like my LED Zeppelin retheme.

Send me money! Let’s do this!

rd

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Stern doesn’t, the game speaks for itself. There is a line a mile long.

You can get in line now for a slot that you don’t even know what the title is?

My point is that the FOMO flippers aren’t going get suckered in again.

Why would you? You can always buy a spot cheaper after the fact.

And Halloween is a really good game and title. That is the reality right now

Lol. I have much bigger plans RD!

But I don’t doubt your talents.

The artistic decision is what I’m trying to figure out.

I don’t wanna say it in the other thread - you have the Deeproot crew over there, exactly the same people, watching the car crash - but that other thing ain’t happening.

If you actually want a game - I’ll make it happen before Xmas. Guaranteed.

Fly it over in January and you’ll be flipping it while you’re still eating NYE turkey leftovers.

rd

. Needed to read it all before reply…

So many FOMOsexuals in this thread. Get a room.

hmm, I want to be the ceo of spooky pinball and change up this cash grab!

This line of thinking seems to assume that FOMO flippers were/are somehow boosting the health of the industry. And that the industry, or individual manufacturers, will suffer if the flippers disappear. If so, it’s a pretty weak assumption. I’d argue the opposite - flippers are out to extract money from the hobby while providing nothing of value in return. If their interest dies out, it’s better for everyone in the long term. If any company was being kept afloat by flippers, they were already circling the drain.

Seriously, most all know this is a cash grab.......cutting out distributors..and I'm thinking they need money, why would they do that? shoot themselves in the foot? yes,the economy, parts, shipping. everything changed. chain supply, blah, blah,blah.
Anyways, good luck everyone. Was really on the fence with this one, out. Cheers!

Why would they cut out the distributors? Seems like this game could have sold out if not for that.

For all the same reasons any other company doesn't use distributors.

I agree FOMO is dead. RIP

Is "fomo" defined as "people preordering games"?

Very informative.

Sterns success in moving units worldwide comes directly from it's distributor network. You can opt out, go solo, but what is the overall cost of the diminished sales?

Just to be clear, cash grab = you don’t like the price. Let’s forget all the factors that really matter.

I find it amusing that everyone assumes Spooky’s 250 limit means they expected all 250 to sell. We’re talking about a game that took a year+ to reach 500.

This is just another case of home buyers wanting a manufacturer to “take one for the team” and sell as if they were hobbyists.

There's a common theme here that every component has an inflated price therefore higher prices are justified across the board and I don't think that is 100% correct.

This is not the case for everything, some things are cheaper now, electronic components, leds, lcds, are constantly falling in price. Plywood is back down in price. Container shipping from China is down 75% to 2016 rates. Coil pricing is still around 15$ ea. Wire always fluctuates with copper prices, copper is at 18 month low. Steel prices are down.

Now I'm not saying some things are not higher, gas is way up.

FOMO isn’t dead. I think it’s more of a case of FOMAI (Flippers Obviously Mad About It). That’s the real issue here isn’t it. If i can’t make 2k flipping my spot then i should get my deposit back and try again next time. I’m looking for the zero risk / full reward option!

Stern offers refunds on deposits. They can also not fulfil your order if they choose. But why should they? People will cancel as soon as the next shiny object comes out right? I’m not shitting on Stern. I own Sterns as well, but will wait for the games to be in hand before purchase. Spooky announces the size of their runs and delivers all the games. So i have no issue putting my deposit down. but i will also wait if i choose. Halloween is the only Spooky i preordered. The rest were bought post-release where i could play it or watch gameplay streams. No one is forcing anyone to preorder anything.

TNA. Wasn’t even on my radar until i played it while purchasing a different game from a Pinsider. Two games played, left there and bought my first NIB ever. It’s a masterpiece. I would love a GZ premium (another masterpiece) but not interested in paying a thousand over MSRP from a Flipper

A market without flippers is a market flat or in decline. If that's the case then theres also fear that your investment in a game can actually go down. If that's true, then it's a whole different market and normal buyers may be reluctant to spend 10K on a game that might be worth 7k next year.

At some point in a declining market MFGs are forced to slash prices just to dump the inventory, Target did this recently.

Then there's locations which are facing inflation and high interest across the board that can't afford to add games. All this together and it makes a for really soft market.

A market without flippers is one with accurate pricing where profits accrue to participants that provide value.

That’s a doozy of a blanket statement. What absolute nonsense! Would-be customers having to race against flippers who don’t even want the product, only to cash in by getting there first, is the opposite of a sign of health of a market. It’s an unsustainable situation and it points to a temporary imbalance between supply and demand.

A pinball game is not an investment. Reread that sentence and repeat it out loud as many times as you need for it to sink in. For the majority of the time that NIB home use buyers have been a force in pinball, you could expect your NIB game to be worth less than msrp as soon as it was delivered. The last couple of years of being able to buy a game, play it for a few months, and sell it for more than msrp, was always unsustainable.

this is an interesting video sounds somewhat like the pinball market where the prices exploded in the last few years.

So long watch flippers.

I don't think pinball market has crashed but the flippers are not making money at these prices ($15K TS4, $9-10K TNA etc.)

I'm not saying flipping is a good thing, I'm just saying they go where the money is. Ultimately it's just a supply and demand issue, but it is a sign that the market has cooled.

I think at 10k, games are an investment for some people, and no one want's to buy a game and lose 3k if they decide to trade or sell it a year down the line. That's definitely going to make a lot of buyers think twice about making a 10K purchase. It's going to slow the market further.

No, it is a sign that the initial price was set accurately given the supply and demand.

Flippers create artificial scarcity and in this case exacerbated actual scarcity. They are also a sign that the asking price was too cheap for the volume available to sell. Therefore the pinball companies did the most logical thing by raising prices to remove the opportunity for arbitrage. This has the unintended effect of pushing some buyers out that don't have the means to pay the higher prices, but this doesn't matter because the true value of the game at the volume they can be made available is the new higher price. The pinball companies were losing money letting the flipping continue. Like it or not. Supply will be closer to meeting demand at the newer prices.

I don't know if the MFG raising prices in order to stop flipping benefits anyone but the MFG, "cheap" is relative.
I think the more sustainable route is a "fair price" and enough units to meet the demand. We are certainly at a crossroads here so let's see the next move.

Exactly . The same result could be achieved by simply making more . An unlimited number of the highest tier model would eliminate flipping as no one will pay x plus a couple grand when they could simply pay x to order one of their own . The increased price isn’t to address flippers , but the manufacturer’s own survival and profitability.

I don’t think it’s so easy to just make more pinball machines. Not even for Stern. When all lines are at capacity, it means building a whole new line, and more difficult, staffing that line.

Obviously making multiple themes at once would be difficult. I think we mean, make a large run to begin with and move on.

Hey, we agree on something! I don't consider pins "investments", HOWEVER I wouldn't have owned so many over the years if they depreciated like pool tables! No way. A major reason I have no problem with 10k impulse pin purchases is I know worst case I get 7-8k back. If that were 2k, I'd definitely think very hard about the purchase. In my 20 years of collecting, the max I've "lost" on a game was 3k IIRC. Commissioned a HEP AFM years ago for 13k and sold it for 10k.

I agree - but Stern can't meet demand today which is causing flippers to buy up the limited inventory and increase the price while adding zero value.

Anyone hear from spooky on their orders yet? Maybe the first 10 guys in line?

As I work in manufacturing and imports, this is in no way close to being accurate. Prices of a container from China is nearly 3 times the cost of what the price was back in 2016. Hell we aren't even back to 2019 pricing even. Prices came down slightly and then rebounded recently but it's been fluctuating back and forth still at higher than average prices depending on time of year. This is also ignoring the often forgotten aspect that was introduced in the previous administration, the Chinese tariffs which has added an extra 25% tax on all imported goods. This hasn't gone away, this started few years back and then everything went to hell with prices of freight due to the crazy demand, fuel costs, and labor.

I’m 9 and nothing yet. Was told a couple weeks a couple weeks ago.

Though I’m not #1, My Order is #2. So close. I check daily.

Nothing yet.

Damn you were ON IT that day! My stupid CC company declined it thinking it was fraud…cost me 90 seconds and now I’m 65 in line. Anyways, so much negativity in the thread here, pumped to hear when people start getting their orders and enjoying this brutally hard table.

2K$ for a 40 foot container to long beach today. 12 months ago is was 20K. What is the percentage drop on that?

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So what the highest number people have seen or heard of so far? I’m #97. I’ve seen a few higher.

I thought spooky already had the parts to produce these games. It's interesting that noone has received their invoice yet. I figured they'd fly right thru these.

Relative shipping container rates over time: https://fbx.freightos.com/

And the import tariff really sucks, in my opinion. Electronics currently get a 35% tariff minimum. I've seen certain components get slapped with a 50% tariff.

I’m #125

spooky_dj Do you wait on some supplies and then overload on everything you need when shipping prices drop like I do when Marco’s offers free shipping? Just curious.

There are exceptions, but generally we just order parts as needed; it would be impractical for us to time purchases based on unpredictable economical ebbs and flows. In order to keep the whole assembly line running smoothly, we need a relatively consistent/regular rate of parts in and games out. We can bulk buy particularly small and inexpensive parts though. But there are plenty of parts that are made to order, so it takes time for the manufacturer to make them too. But we are always growing; perhaps with more storage space, we can consider building up a larger in-house parts stock to consider things like this in the future!

For sure! I passed in 2017 during Cal Extreme Expo when TNA was demoed with a Pre-Order list. I live too far away to enjoy random rounds of this game (2 1/2 hour drive one way), that I could not pass on this opportunity.

Yeah, CC companies suck regarding their "unexpected charge behavior" on your card. That was probably my delay that caused me to lose #1 slot.
I have my CC company text me EVERY time a transaction is performed. Annoying? Yes, but learned from the past with thieves using my CC card to make large purchases.

So, I was notified by my CC if this transaction is valid and to reply with "C". I did so immediately, but from time of notification to then was about 10 seconds.

Hoping it comes before December. I plan to take a LOT of vacation time during then and this game will fit the need for StayCation fun.

Though I won’t be sad to see the flippers out of the hobby, the flippers were kind of like additional sales force in some ways. The enthusiasm they brought in quick sell outs also helped the manufacturers. All the same, I agree with you.