When will they be considered a larger company that doesn't need non-refundable deposits? Pretty sure they have a least a couple dozen employees, probably more. UM and HWN was close to $12 million in sales. Why does the risk have to be put on the buyer? I understood it when they were really small and pumping out a couple hundred games a year at most. They have expanded both in physical space and employees which has allowed them to make significantly more games.

1969 games is far from limited.

Good points!

Loan would be 10%+ right now.

Spotted some high rez pics on FB

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1969 isn’t that limited. There are non-limited pins that don’t even get to that number.

Agree with this 100%

If what you have seen thus far is enough for you along with the Q&A session tomorrow then jump on board Day 1

If it’s not good enough and you need gameplay then wait it out.

1,969 games solves the problem, it’s not “limited”, and also gets rid of the spot flippers. People got burned on UM/HW? But you put a deposit down knowing the risk. Now you can just wait it out

In theory Stern sells to distros and most likely have the cash for the orders,or a locked in escrow at the least before they accept the order.The distros are now sitting on inventory and stern is paid for what they built. The manufacturers know they can get prepaid no refund deposits on sales and are spoiled.Why take the risk of sitting inventory if the risk can be pushed on to someone else.Guess we should be happy we can sell the deposits to someone else I guess.

I'm happy I don't need to decide Friday.

I am very interested though. Can't wait to see some gameplay!

Valid question! I admit that I got caught up in the FOMO on that one. I didn’t mind upper playfields. After Ultraman, I was totally turned off by them.

Also, I just wanted to support Spooky at the time.

Spooky isn’t new to the Pinball world. This isn’t their first game. They should have PLENTY of money built up in their war chest to run their company on their own. WE don’t need to be their investors anymore.

Here we go again, watching everyone fall all over themselves for a "bargain" (at nearly 10K now), for a game that's "packed" (fan layout, 75% empty space and an upper playfield that obscures everything else), and already a "home run" even though no one has played it or has seen it played.

Wish Spooky the best, but cmon. At least this should shoot better than their last 3 offerings, but then how could it not?

I know people are focusing on the non-refundable deposits, haven't a lot of distributors taken this stance as well? Had a deposit on Mando awhile back with a pretty popular distributor, wasn't refundable but I could swap it to another game.

Thank you! I have yet to play a Spooky game that shoots well. They are all so clunky. Say what you want about Stern and JJP, but they know how to perform the base fundamentals of pinball, shot geometry.

People need to drop the home run deal on this until we play it. I sure hope it’s a home run. Spooky needs one after the last release.

I'm curious how those lower drops on the left will effect ball movement when random gameplay ball rolls down the playfield and contacts them.
Looks good. Can't wait to see a gameplay vid.

It’s one thing for a distro to not believe in the product. It’s a completely different thing for a company to not believe in itself.

$7,700 Standard is a great price point for a pf that plays the same as the $9,700 CE imo.

Actually it is to be paid in full.

Agreed. They should show a photo of it before people are asked for a non-refundable deposit.

That's valid...but I'm yet again caught in little kid xmas mode right now.

This is what I was going to ask as well. People going to town on the non-refundable deposit thing, but who exactly offers refundable deposits? I mean as a stated policy, not a distro you're friends with and do a lot of business with.

Spooky is following the model that got them where they are today, don't think people falling for FOMO will change that. Takes a pretty big belief in something to quit your job and start a boutique pinball company.

I disagree on this. People like to say this but what it really means is you are used to what Stern does, and you do not adapt well (or give enough effort) for games with different types of geometry or shoot a bit harder because the shots are tighter. With enough time into a game you can learn how to play them so that they are not clunky. R&M is NOT clunky. It is smooth - once the rail fixes are done. I can agree that they may have needed to work on putting a game together because many did not play well out of the box, but nothing was done (fixed) that was different, they just didn't follow the graphics close enough to round the orbits as they should have been. The design was there, but the assembly line did not follow them apparently. I've played earlier Spooky games that are not clunky either (can't speak to HWN/ULT).

I say it often around here but Sterns are very much samey feeling. I think this is why people praise it so much, they are familiar with little variation in the way that makes you feel like you can't pat yourself on the back for not sucking. Some keep saying Godzilla is so different, but it really isn't. Every manufacturer has a feel, it's always been this way. Some are better than others, some are quirky, some people like some, not others, etc. It's no different now.

I’m confused by a refundable deposit. Why have a deposit then. Isn’t a deposit a type of contract saying you’ll buy something. If it’s refundable, then there’s no contract or promise.

I mean I think they can count on let’s say 500 CEs .. and they get built first so they could already have that many orders in . Most of the bling is done by smaller business , ie back alley Matt

That's quite the reach.

It's a different sales model than JJP/Stern - but it's been exactly the same for every Spooky game.

Put a deposit down on day one and get your game sooner vs later...or wait for a gameplay video and get your game later (or miss out). The choice is yours! No one is pressuring you.

Please people don’t use the word flow
I see clunky please don’t use flow
Most overused word in pinball

Spooky games are different that’s GOOD

They play great to me

Let the spooky people buy day one and have fun

You can wait ,judge it then tell people why it sucks

It actually is better to get a later run number which has been proven game after game. All the major issues are hopefully solved by then.

Constructive criticism nitpick/question

Observe on the main inserts the Mystery Gang, the inserts go Daphne, Fred, Scooby, Shaggy, Velma. If you look at major shots on the playfield, they go D/F/S/S/V the same way (Scooby and Fred are on top of each other, but close enough). Similarly you might notice the baddies each have an insert and a coresponding sculpt that also goes left to right on the playfield. This is all very good art design. This is also mirrored in the center playfield art

But the color of the wireworms are brown, blue, green, then orange and purple (they crisscross at the very end). I like that each character has a wireworm associated with them. But maybe the colors should match the character scheme established with the insert/shot art? Then it would be Purple/Blue/Brown/Green/Orange

Not saying it has to be that, but it was an OCD thing I noticed. There's nothing wrong with the way it is.

Plenty of instances where putting down a refundable deposit is normal outside of pinball. It's often just a way to get people to be more serious about committing, even if you know you can change your mind putting money down indicates you're pretty into the car or whatever else. But I honestly I can see why Spooky wouldn't want to deal with that.

Pinball people can get 'shiny thing syndrome'. Saw an ad yesterday for someone trying to sell their Fathom remake, before it had even arrived, because they had also pre-ordered 3 other games and didn't have room for them all.

I don't think taking non-refundable deposits on its own is the issue, it's a fair move with the way people can flake out. That can be a lot of cash to have to be able to give back at any given time that could be spent on building the games people are ordering.

I hope to wait, judge it, and then tell people why it’s awesome.

I’m not rooting against spooky here. I’m rooting for them. I’m just warning people to be cautious here.

I was actually interested in this release since word was they were sharing gameplay footage before sales opened. I thought that was a huge step forward from their past business practices. Then that changed…

Thanks for this explanation…really puts into perspective the different reasons for refundable vs non-refundable.

Yes and no.
Certainly there’s a lot that is learned as the machines get out there in the world.
The owners threads wind up being a wealth of knowledge for fixing and adjusting things.
But yes, bugs and fixes certainly get worked out on later run games.

Personally I prefer to get a game earlier and play the various stages of code as it progresses.
My Rick and Morty is #37, so I was fairly early.
I really enjoyed playing the early code and watching to game progress over time into what it is now.
I also don’t mind getting an early game that I might have to adjust or fix a few things.
I think that’s just part of pinball.

Boutique term left building long ago.
Where the heck is Charlie these days?
Miss him steering the Spooky ship.

I don't like that aspect really. I'm too old to be someones beta tester when dropping 10k on something. This is one of the worst things about pinball in my opinion.
New fleshed out features or gameplay? Sure, but working out bugs and waiting on game crashing bugs to be worked out? Not so much. These aren't 50 video games, and it's already bad enough there. It's not an overstatement to say that pinball machines are mostly released way before the code is ready and it has gotten worse over time.

I agree with @coindork…I love being early and finding ways to improve and watching the game mature. I guess we all have our comfort zones…and that’s ok. We all can use our money the way we want. I think anyone can agree with that.

Dear Spooky,

Please give us some live gameplay tomorrow.

Love,

Aaron

Charlie is retired . The kids are running the show and I’m here for it. New blood is what I’ve been asking for in pinball and I’m getting it.

From my limited understanding…I don’t think this is a Spooky decision. They answer to the people who hold the Scooby license…so all blaming Spooky…it does no good…they aren’t the bad guys.

For all the random people who like to repeat the line that Halloween buyers somehow are unhappy I have to say "step away from the group-think mentality."

Yes, a lot of flippers were very unhappy and "some" buyers had some legitimate issues with their pins, however..........Time will prove that the Vast majority of Halloween owners are Very Happy with the game so far and I have a really good feeling that this next update will take the game over the top.

Happy owners may not dominate the commentary on this game but we exist and Love our Game!

Everyone needs to grab they’re favorite device and ………

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I'd argue it's better than it was at the worst period, but you're still not wrong overall.

Anyways, back to trying to be positive. I don't know Spooky DJ, I couldn't tell you a thing about their approach to game code. But this is pretty awesome:

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That doesn't mean it's a deep game automatically or anything, but just to utilize that many callouts indicates a certain amount of attention to software.

It’s their decision to take money now. If licensor says game isn’t ready to show they can do the right thing and hold off on taking non refundable deposits until it is.

What would change if it was still solely him? You'd still have non-refundable deposits and RZ layouts.

Don't give them yours then and shut up, already.

Have you considered that option? Because it is out there.

The 'we can use our money how we want' is a copout to the point I was making. This is a product. You aren't on the testing team. You may enjoy it, so be it, but that isn't a good business model. Do you buy other high dollar items and hope to get to troubleshoot them? Maybe they need to sort the business model to only sell to routes to work out kinks, and then to home buyers. I don't know, but waiting a year or more for the code to get worked out is just a crap of a way to run a business, no matter what the business is.

I know the next statements are along the lines of 'don't buy' and 'you have other games to choose from', but that doesn't improve the situation. These are valid complaints. Clearly some people care more than others, and I've already shown, I tolerate it too but it doesn't mean it doesn't bother me.

Well we know that you have no problem working on and fixing games The number of pages for rick and morty fixes to get those early games to play right was overwhelming. But yeah it’s different for everyone depending on your level of skill. But people should agree that spending the amount of money on a new in box pin that we spend should not then be forced to make the game play right or fix a ton of stuff right off the bat. Instead of rushing these games out how about a little, just a little, better quality control would go a long way.

Sending out new decals to a customer that just spent 10 grand on a new in box game that came messed up due to poor QC isn’t a fair resolution to the issue as that person either has to spend time (time is money) fixing it if they can or pay someone to do it. I mean it’s not like they are churning out 1,000 pins a day take the damn time to look it over before boxing it up.

Rant over