Quoted from orangestorm87:
So when people have bought Spooky pins before, is there any sort of payment plan, or just deposit after its shown, then everything else after its shipped? (If you are lucky enough to be on the list of course)
I don't know about rob zombie, but during AMH days you had the option to only put $1k down, then you could spread out $1k payments every month up until your game was done. I opted to put half down (only fair because they had to buy parts to build it), then other half when it's done. It's possible with all the funding from rob zombie and dominos, Charlie might be closer to being able to simply take orders with very minimum put down, and then paid in full when it's done. Not like he has any problems selling out.
Quoted from TKDalumni:
Wonder if that can be swapped into the older titles??
At one point, Ben was trying to see if there was a way to install a color display on AMH but haven't heard anything. If it could someone would obviously have to redo all the dots in color just like DMD, but it wouldn't be that bad if the work was split up.
Quoted from trilogybeer:
I was at spooky pinball today to pick up my Rob Zombie game and Charlie told me a few things about Meatloaf .
If I had to guess, it's either RHPS or fight club.. but then Ben made a reference to THEY LIVE earlier this week, so I say meatloaf is just to throw us off.
Quoted from benheck:
Could do some interesting stuff with a "They Live" pin with polarized light and sunglasses.
I would have tons of bank targets that have art.. but there's transparent UV ink hidden which is revealed by UV GI that shows all the subliminal messages "reproduce, sleep, obey".
"I'VE GOT ONE THAT CAN SEE!"
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:
Soo... what is new with rev 7E?
EOTL = guessing it means End of the Line.. IE: Parker is done revising the board for a long time.. probably going to see this board being used for many upcoming titles until there prooves needing to add features (IE coils, motors, display power/resolution).
Quoted from rask4p:
Could it be TOTAL ANNIHILATION???
I skimmed through it, but I do like Charlie's comment about how a $50 ramp can make a $1,000 difference in what buyers are willing to pay. He'd love to do another original theme, and a street level game (IE flat), but it is a huge risk. I'd be hard pressed not to buy one because it looks like it flows so well, and I'm a sucker for that kind of music.
Quoted from jar155:
It's cost cutting. Putting the color changers in allows for you to take advantage of them later via code updates
For reference (since Scott mentions he used piranha LED's):
Color RGB led's when bought in 1,000 piece quantity: 19 cents each
ebay.com link » Like
Cool white led's when bought in 1,000 piece quantity: 5 cents each
ebay.com link » Like
So if you figure there are roughly 75 inserts max on a playfield, Stern thinks saving $10.50 is worth cheating it's customers on a high premium product.
Quoted from KerryImming:
75 white LEDs requires 75 drivers. 75 RGB LEDs will need 225 drivers and the extra wiring. The costs add up quick.
I don't think it works like that.. It's my understanding modern RGB drivers use advanced matrix to send color data.
Hell even if I'm wrong, you can buy an arduino uno board for $22 that should be able to handle instructions for at least 64 individually addressable LEDs. If Stern's electrical department took out unnecessary components it would probably be closer to $15.
I got it! One of my favorite movies growing up, The wraith with the gutterboys! A movie about racing that makes the fast and furious look good when they shift an automatic transmission
nothing there.. Ah, but google has cache Ben!
I don't think this is a joke, this is a badly scrubbed website. You can see the same AMH/Dominoes drop target / magnet section
Also a quick Whois shows email@example.com is the admin
I bet Ben reserved biblepinball.com to make sure it's available, but probably won't even see a whitewood for 2-3 years. At least now we can say it's eventually coming.
Quoted from Jackontherocks:
Not sure what happened but his restaurant just closed down after 20 years out here in AZ. http://www.azcentral.com/story/entertainment/dining/2017/10/23/alice-cooperstown-restaurant-closed-phoenix-alice-cooper/791107001/
when I was there just over a year ago, wasn't exactly busy for a weekday lunch.. Can't speak for the dinner crowd. The pins were in decent shape, but it was a pain to get change from the gift desk to play (only one machine with a dollar bill acceptor). Anyone going to the ballpark nearby can just eat at Chili's inside the park (which has window seating into the park). I think it was just a bad location, would be nice if he re-opened somewhere else.
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:
Wow so it's a full res display, not a double-high 2x res. version of the RZ screen
Yea I'm really glad they went this route to stay in line with other manufacturers (especially after being spoiled with TNA on P3).. So let's see:
Stern - full color HD display between speakers
Spooky - full color HD display between speakers
American Pinball - large HD display in backbox
JJP - VERY large HD display
Heighway (does this count?) - 5" display in playfield, optional giant LCD backbox display
Chicago gaming - slightly higher def for MMr, wider display for AFM
Multimorphic - Giant display in playfield
Dutch pinball - Large display, but scaled up large dots
And then there's homepin. Old school 128 x 32 orange dots.. in 2018... yea
Quoted from LonghornEngineer:
Prototype PinHeck REV8 EOTL HD PCBs arrive
Quoted from benheck:
Yes it uses a Raspberry Pi 3 Compute model (lite) for audio/video and game updating (via a USB thumb drive now)
PIC32 is still "in charge" of the game itself because.... real time.
Your new system is looking a lot closer to Chicago gaming.. I'm assuming they are using the beaglebone for audio/video, and the board beneath to control the game. I love the direction you're going. What is the latency of a pi driven display versus a DMD?
Quoted from jwilson:
I don't really understand how this is cheaper than just going P-ROC. So many revisions!
PROC is very generic. It can't possibly configure for every project, so they build boards as 16/32 channels. If you're a pinball company, you estimate how many I/O's you'll likely have and only build what you need. Also don't forget it's not like Ben is just sending the boards off to some prototype house, and then getting them stuffed at some no-name contract manufacturer.. Longhorn engineer (correct me if I'm wrong) has his own machine to wave solder boards so costs are kept low, even with revisions.
Quoted from Bonnevil69:
How exactly is P-Roc generic?? It’s far more customizable than any other control system. Have you noticed that there are tons of different projects going in radically different directions that are powered by it??
By generic I mean it has pre-set outputs.. I don't mean it's underpowered or underutilized in the least. I'm aware of every project P-roc is used in. It's a great system for hobbyists and production. However if you're going to optimize cost it's probably better to design your own board.
Quoted from gstellenberg:
Most look at BOM costs and ignore hardware R&D costs, software/framework R&D costs, availability of dev support and tools, and customer support costs. Almost every MFG who has designed their own system from scratch has spent quite a bit more money than they'd have spent adopting a boardset like the P-ROC/P3-ROC + PDBs and proven / feature-rich software framework like skeleton game. Anybody who tells you otherwise either had free/volunteer labor doing the R&D or isn't admitting the extent of their costs. Choosing to go with an established solution carries a lot of benefits that translate directly into shorter time-to-market and lower costs. Sure, if a MFG sells 10,000 machines, the amortized R&D and early/heavy support costs can eventually show you a net gain versus buying the established system, but there's a ton of risk to absorb on the journey to 10,000 machines, and that net gain isn't guaranteed even at those numbers.
Agreed.. there is always ROI to be calcuated before making that decision. And I even said "great system for hobbyists and production". But there's R&D in the real world, and then there's the Ben heck world. Seems Ben has always built things with many hours because he likes to, not banking on something making money. I don't think he ever intended to even sell AMH. It was another hobby project, and it was more done than Chuck's pinball so they went with it. He's said he's easily spent thousands of hours on AMH (building up the framework and then coding modes). If you calculated that as a salary it would easily be in the 6 figures.
Quoted from rosh:
I am has tied in as anyone, and I am 100% confident that there are projects I don't know about. Heck, every couple of weeks, I'll hear about one that has been going on for months that I was unaware of
I meant I am aware of (probably) every publically posted project. I can't possibly know about everyone working privately in a small group on a project.
Quoted from HighVoltage:
But it failed to meet Stern's own requirements so they had to do a take two with Spike 2.
And then the node boards failed to meet Stern's requirements, so they spun that 2-3 more times so none of those are backwards compatible either. $300 for a node board that can be used on 2 games.
Quoted from Aphex:
it shows each players score displayed in a respective corner (hopefully without jumping around or disappearing randomly, I understand that might happen to avoid screen damage) current location in the game
Is screen burn-in really an issue on LCD though? I know that was a problem with CRT (because a laser is firing in the same spot over and over, wearing out the film inside the tube), but restaurants everywhere are switching to LCD to display their menus now (which are on everyday for 12-16 hours a day) and I've yet to see one that has burn-in. There's probably a reason you don't see flying toaster screen saver software anymore.
My guess is even if that were an issue, an LCD is pretty cheap to replace. I'm going to guess a VERY common LCD module was chosen that won't be obsoleted for a long time.
Quoted from Aphex:
yes true, if you notice those menu's constantly cycle and move around though. It was to my understanding that static graphics will still damage the screen as long as they are constantly there. example the CNN bug (lower corner graphic)
Some menus do cycle (like mcdonalds), the ma-n-pa restaurant by me is completely static (though I suppose since the menu never changes, how would I know if there was burn-in). I'm guessing you got that image from this link?
Talks about "image persistence" versus burn-in. Also says you would have to have the same image for a VERY long time (I'm guessing that monitor is in an airport, playing CNN 24/7). It also says in most cases this is reversible if you let a solid white image play for a while. Also, scores are never static, they are always changing (the background might stay the same), but you also aren't going to be in a game for 24/7, eventually your game ends and it goes back to attract mode which will likely be animation similar to TNA.
Quoted from tacshose:
Are they taking orders at TPF? Any idea of when production and delivery will happen?
My guess, once it's revealed they will be sending out the emails to existing spooky customers, and KT will be adding people to the list. I'd also guess that if it's shown, that means the license is worked out, and they will probably start building them a couple weeks after the show (maybe sooner if Chuck got a 2nd production line prepped before the show). But he also has to keep his workers busy building TNA's.
definitely some interesting things, like the magnet save between the flippers.. the guillotine, the alice cooper doll peeking over the castle. Not happy about the price increase, but having RGB inserts (already a nice light show) and like jwilson said PROC is making it future proof are both nice. Have to wonder if Charlie will continue down the path of using PROC?
Quoted from delt31:
Did I miss the song release list for this game or is that not out yet
Mode: Frankenstein Song: Feed my Frankenstein
Mode: Cold Ethyl Song: Cold Ethyl
Mode: Igor Song: Lost in America
Mode: Vampire Song: Disco Bloodbath Boogie Fever
Mode: Werewolf Song: No More Mister Nice Guy
Mode: Zombie Song: Brutal Planet
Mode: Insects Song: Its the little Things
Mode: Alice Song: ?(didnt hear him say what the song was)
Mode: Pit Creature Song: Go to Hell
Wizard Mode: Billion Dollar Babies
Quoted from spinal:
Love Spooky and game looks great(!) but I have to say the unveiling left something to be desired. After pirates reveal followed by immediate pro stream, I thought that would be the new standard. There are many of us not at the show so immediate pro live stream of this great game would have been welcomed. Anyway just some + crit as we all are wishing for Spooky to hit this one out of the park.
I didn't quite get the wow factor either, but spooky will never keep up with JJP and don't intend to.
However, if we compare alice to woz (which was $6500 for early pre-order 5 years ago when it first came out, but is now $8k because they sold it too low plus a little inflation):
* both have rgb insert lighting
* both have an upper playfield (woz does have two)
* both have custom sculpts by back alley creations
* both have full color HD displays (Yes woz is a giant screen, but both are similiar)
* spooky has an auto launcher, the base woz had a manual shooter rod
* Woz DID have 4 pop bumpers (with trees that didn't want to stay on)
* Woz had 5 magnets not one
* Woz had 5 flippers, Alice has 3
Based on all the test videos we've seen from spooky, their playfields have an incredibly tough surface. Remember all those woz playfields with chipping clearcoat (and the solution was a sticker to cover it up)? I'd say they are doing pretty good for a boutique company.
Quoted from PinB:
Dead Flip will be streaming the game soon after TPF.
I don't see why he couldn't have done it at the show.. he was literally streaming guardians of the galaxy at one of the booths during the reveal. If it was too noisy, I'm sure there was a private room they could have moved it to (even if it was a hotel room).
Quoted from Rascal_H:
Anyone else think this game would benefit huge from PinStadium lighting? Seems impossible to get light past those thick sculpts (Vs. traditional plastics).
I don't get pin stadium lighting, ESPECIALLY for something that's supposed to be dark and spooky.
That's like saying svengoolie would look better with bright studio lights
Quoted from Rascal_H:
Ok, this one is way better
I can see the playfield just fine. Haven't seen under the playfield, but since it's PROC (with a similar lightshow to TNA), and scott is an official team member, I'd guess it's using the same bright LED modules. It's hard to tell in a bright conference room, but I'm guessing it'll illuminate just fine (and it's possible with early software, the LED's may not be driven to their max yet).
you wanna see a dark playfield, play a freddy:
lack of pop bumpers doesn't bother me one bit. In some ways, pop bumpers are antiquated, at least how they're usually used (pat lawlor putting a cluster at the end of an orbit shot, stern almost always using the formula of shooter lane, to 3 lanes, to cluster of pops). On very early solid state often pop bumpers were used to reach targets, or rack up points (which is slim pickings compared to modern rules with modes and multipliers). TNA is one of the few games in a long time where it's being used strategically (one pop bumper, near the flippers, try to cause chaos).
You almost have to start putting pricetags to features. Would you rather see $120 spent on a cluster of 3 pop bumpers that just slows the ball down (and requires adjustment and maintenance), or would you like to see one more wireform ramp on the game?
Quoted from RebelGuitars:
» YouTube video
Official song list from the latest video:
BRUTAL PLANET (ZOMBIE MODE)
COLD ETYHL (COLD ETHYL MODE)
DISCO BLOODBATH (VAMPIRE MODE)
FEED MY FRANKENSTEIN (FRANKENSTEIN'S MONSTER MODE)
GO TO HELL (TENTACLE CREATURE MODE)
IT'S THE LITTLE THINGS (INSECTIONS MODE)
LOST IN AMERICA (IGOR MODE)
NO MORE MISTER NICE GUY (WEREWOLF MODE)
BILLION DOLLAR BABIES (WIZARD MODE)
I LOVE THE DEAD (ALICE COOPER INSERT)
Quoted from benheck:
HD LCD's are a content nightmare. I really feel manufacturers shot themselves in the foot making the jump.
On one hand, you get the freedom to not be restricted (think about how difficult it was for early programmers to make 8x8 sprites on arcade games to look good). On the other hand, HD sort of has this expectation of smooth animations.. Looking at a game like TNA, having 3d content is also sort of expected.
Transformers "the pin" was released with an alphanumeric display. Was it the display that killed it? Was it the compromised playfield? Was it the low weight feeling like a toy with more than 1/2 the price of a full size game? Not sure
Then you look at redemption games and it seems to be a mixed bag. There's a youtuber that goes by Matt3756 with 1.5 million subscribers, and this most recent video shows him playing 6 redemption games. Out of those, only 2 feature real graphic displays (the rest use basic backglass like bulb feedback and segment displays to show score). Out of the other 2, one is a pixelated space invaders game, and the other is a crab game with over the top HD graphics using a translucent LCD screen over mechanical objects.
Yet I'm not sure the HD display has any affect on earnings. One of the biggest earning redemption games is big bass wheel, and it has a very basic scoring screen
Plus Stern used halftone to print graphics which I think looks like crap up close. Chuck himself has told the story that George Gomez grabbed him at MGC and asked him why his godzilla homebrew pinball looked better than theirs.
Played it at MGC. I liked the storymode, but I didn't like the layout. Castle is cool, but there's so much of the playfield covered up it's like you're just shooting into holes not sure where the ball is going to come back out (maybe it gets more predictable the more you play it?). Also doesn't seem to be enough things close to the flippers to shoot at where the ball is coming back at you. I don't hate it, but it didn't grab me. There's something to be said about TNA with that close pop bumper and angled targets right in the center, really keeps you on your toes.
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