Quoted from Jodester:Really good video. Thanks for posting.
"snip"
Thanks!
(Topic ID: 168972)
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Alice Cooper's Nightmare Castle
Spooky Pinball, 2017
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Quoted from bgwilly31:Yet another video of brick shots.
It's unfortunate because the art is incredible. The look of the pf is also incredible.
The call outs are terrible. I could do better myself. I'm not sure AC was a fit.
And the shots. Brick after brick. Targets instead of so many posts would have helped. But can't help but still think the shot layout is missing something vital. Pop pumpers. Or better yet maybe a bash toy. Like TWD. Or a barn door. Or even better. Castle door draw bridge shot. Like MM. It's just missing something very vital to make it fun.
1) Bricks / posts.
I think you have a point regarding the posts. The basic layout looks good, but the preponderance of posts and lack of stand-up targets makes it very bricky, and you get absolutely nothing for not making the shots.
If it's not too late, I think Spooky should seriously consider the addition of some stand-ups, or other avenues to mitigate this. Besides, they could be integrated into the rules and give more options there.
More toys would certainly be nice, but I suspect we may have to look to the mod scene for those. But given how early the code and media seem to be, and that TNA orders continue to flood in, maybe Spooky have time for some minor rethinks or additions.
2) Call outs
Regarding the Alice Cooper call outs. The little we've heard are AWFUL. There's only so much you can do in post processing. He's reading in a normal speaking voice, as if head buried in his lines, with no intonation, stress, punctuation, change in speed or emotion at all. Even if Cooper is getting on a bit, he's still a singer and performer, and should both understand the necessity and be capable of it ... so I'm slightly at a loss as to why he's so totally flat. Was there not a producer or sound engineer (and instructions from Spooky) present at the recording to direct ... or did Cooper just sit down alone at home with hundreds of lines to record? They need to be either re-recorded, or the community needs to think about their own effort IMO.
3) Art / display.
They look absolutely outstanding, though hopefully the display will be livened up a bit with animation, and selective focus / zoom (which works well with comic strip style stuff) to make it come more alive. It looks very static at the moment. Obviously quite early though.
4) Sound effects and music.
They sound good so far. Again, obviously early.
5) Light show.
Looks fairly non-existent at the moment, though I think it's full RGB, as with TNA. Maybe Scott can lend a hand on that front? Light show on TNA is great.
Chapel Hill, NC
Quoted from rubberducks:1) Bricks / posts.
I think you have a point regarding the posts. The basic layout looks good, but the preponderance of posts and lack of stand-up targets makes it very bricky, and you get absolutely nothing for not making the shots.
If it's not too late, I think Spooky should seriously consider the addition of some stand-ups, or other avenues to mitigate this.
Yes, please!!!! I want to purchase one real bad - this tweak would push me over
Quoted from DerGoetz:Yes, please!!!! I want to purchase one real bad - this tweak would push me over
Let's see as this is almost sold out I would imagine. What real interest might there be to change much of anything at that point. I did think the very same about AC's voice in the very early and very short sample that I heard. I am certainly not expecting them to all be like that.
Wow, just listened to the callouts. Definitely not happy about them. I have added about 6 pinsounds to various pins in my collection, spending hours and hours going through movies and ripping what I can, might be very spoiled now. I hope that there are enough lines and samples to address the repetitiveness of two games that I just listened to. The near monotone is the bigger issue to be certain however.
I didn't quote the post about a bunch more content and post process coming so that you for sharing that Fawzma! I realize that post-process can only do so much with reverb and other effects but can't create excitement in Alice's voice. With all due respect will there be an option to turn down or mute that audio? (I apologize as that is quite rude I realize
)
Regarding the blue, someone had said that this was a quick sample for the show but I will easily be dropping to the hammered silver/grey if it doesn't look far better than in the video. The coin door is still just plain Jane and sticks out on that edition. [I know, I'm a bit of a broken record]
This all said, it is a killer theme of a pin and a home run for Spooky and Team!
Quoted from dnaman:Regarding the blue, someone had said that this was a quick sample for the show but I will easily be dropping to the hammered silver/grey if it doesn't look far better than in the video. !
Maybe the blue needs to be the underlining color with hammered black on top. Or visea versa. Black with hammered blue.
Magicchiz
Quoted from rubberducks:5) Light show.
Looks fairly non-existent at the moment, though I think it's full RGB, as with TNA. Maybe Scott can lend a hand on that front? Light show on TNA is great.
6:27-6:37 may give a fair idea of what to expect (similar to TNA effects with full playfield lightshow).
Quoted from bgwilly31:The call outs are terrible. I could do better myself. I'm not sure AC was a fit.
I have to agree with you on this. Better to hire a good voice actor I say, unless they redo it right with Alice.
Added over 6 years ago: Ignore this comment! I since played the game and the Alice Cooper call-outs are great and that video does a great disservice to the game. You must hear it in person to appreciate it. It's a world of difference! 
Quoted from StylesBitchly:I have to agree with you on this. Better to hire a good voice actor I say, unless they redo it right with Alice.
Targets instead of so many posts would have helped.
Alice certainly knows how to perform. Very puzzling as to why the callouts are so bland.
Quoted from Medisinyl:Alice certainly knows how to perform. Very puzzling as to why the callouts are so bland.
Perhaps he never did voice acting before. Possibly a lot different than performing on stage with a rock band? I don't know! 
Added over 6 years ago: Ignore this one too!
Montevideo
Quoted from Medisinyl:Very puzzling as to why the callouts are so bland.
if I have to guess, because no body told him.
Quoted from fantarama:if I have to guess, because no body told him.
Ya, I was thinking the same thing... No direction or guidance as mentioned earlier.
You need a damn sound engineer/producer here! 
Added over 6 years ago: Ignore this one too! The game sounds great! 
Quoted from Medisinyl:Alice certainly knows how to perform. Very puzzling as to why the callouts are so bland.
Much different than what he did for the initial promo that was on Spooky’s website.
Quoted from wcbu64:Much different than what he did for the initial promo that was on Spooky’s website.
I still like the "if you loose, you get a shock" idea!
Now that I think of it, I have a 15,000 volt neon sign transformer I could rig up. 
Yikes, those callouts are BORING. C'mon Spooky...fix that. Even if you have to limit the number of callouts. I wouldn't pretend to know how many will be required for the final product, but give us a couple dozen dark/intense callouts rather than hundreds of what sounds like AC reading the phonebook. If AC can't/won't redo them, get a pro voice actor and redo them I say. AC has his name and face all over the machine but that doesn't mean it has to be *his* voice on the callouts. Just send him a polite apology letter that he was "fired" and a new set of golf clubs and he'll probably have a good laugh about it. That dude is pretty chill.
Do a poll, offer a sample of the existing callouts and ask the public what they think. Give the people what they want!
Quoted from Pinballer67:I haven't played ACNC and I hope the layout offers some fun/depth but I wouldn't think bricking is a problem. From what I see, you don't need to add targets to the existing design. Not saying it's AFM, but you can brick that over and over and keep coming back for more.
Yeah I think the "bricking" thing is a bit overblown. No Fear is all posts with very few targets. So when you have a bad game and don't have a feel for it you'll hit nothing but posts. But when you get in the groove and start nailing the shots it can be *very* exciting and exhilarating. I suspect ACNC will be similar... so this can be a good thing.
I gotta agree about the callouts though... I expected him to grit up his voice and snarl these lines out... heck that's 90% of his vocal work during the verses in his songs And it works!
How do you think they might effectively integrate a shaker motor into this machine without pop bumpers?
Quoted from Pinballer67:Yikes, those callouts are BORING. C'mon Spooky...fix that. Even if you have to limit the number of callouts. I wouldn't pretend to know how many will be required for the final product, but give us a couple dozen dark/intense callouts rather than hundreds of what sounds like AC reading the phonebook. If AC can't/won't redo them, get a pro voice actor and redo them I say. AC has his name and face all over the machine but that doesn't mean it has to be *his* voice on the callouts. Just send him a polite apology letter that he was "fired" and a new set of golf clubs and he'll probably have a good laugh about it. That dude is pretty chill.
Do a poll, offer a sample of the existing callouts and ask the public what they think. Give the people what they want!
I would just ask him to do them in the style of the opening of Poison - that's kind of how I imagined they would be done. Of course he can do them in this style but maybe the ship has already sailed.
Trust me you have to leave alice in there. Although. You can add other monsters, characters voice. Like vampires, the Frankenstien monster. Igor. Zombies, Charlie (just kidding Charlie!), cold Ethyl, etc. Nothing says it has to be all Alice. I'm a Alice fan. But it would add some deeper aspect and dimension to the game. Just a thought.
Magicchiz
Quoted from Shapeshifter:I would just ask him to do them in the style of the opening of Poison - that's kind of how I imagined they would be done. Of course he can do them in this style but maybe the ship has already sailed.
» YouTube video
Is that his regular voice in his music>? Im not familiar with his music.
But i totally agree. That voice would be much better.
Also agree with the poster above. Like rob zombie has at least 3-4 different voice actors in it. A variety would help as well.
I only got a handful of games in at MGC but what surprised me was how tough the game played. I personally like that it's challenging as I'm a decent player and like when a game kicks you in the nuts. But I'd be curious to see of what percentage of games played that people were actually able to start the main multiball. Kind of reminded me of Black Hole in that regard. Especially how it releases your first lock after a drain and you have to re-lock it on your next ball. It's really hard to get a clean shot on that upper playfield ramp especially since the drop target resets every time it exits the upper playfield. So even after you have the 3 hits you have to knock it down again and catch the rebound and send it up that ramp. I think I spent the majority of my time playing just hitting that right ramp and trying to get to get the balls locked up above. You can get some pretty good flow going on the main playfield but there are some tight shots as well and the other difficult part is that you can't see where most of the shots go as they are obscured by either the upper playfield or the castle pieces (reminded me a bit of BK2K or GOTLE in that regard). I guess that makes sense since you're exploring a castle that the shots feel more hidden and claustrophobic but it's just different than what we're used to for modern games. I actually think this could be a good thing as it really differentiates the game and gives it more personality.
I'm looking forward to spending more time with the game when I can hear it better and after I get a better idea of how the rules work! Curious what others' thoughts are on the actual gameplay as most of the talk is just how the game looks and sounds. I do think the art package and LCD screen look fantastic!
In the words of Aaron Rodgers, R-E-L-A-X...
Adding targets absolutely everywhere isn't cost effective, or logical. This game is BY FAR the most expensive thing we've ever built... if you want 5 easy shots, those games are out there in abundance. We'll be making some small changes to help this a bit, but ... in the words of the King, play better?! Lol.
The smallest targets we can get ARE WIDER THAN THE NARROW POSTS WE USE! This would make the game even harder. More targets also means more inserts, more switch boards, more engineering, more art changes, more re-approvals... not as easy as it sounds in a pinball forum, or remotely cost effective. We have to make tough decisions on where to put the $$$ in every game we do.
You've got 4 ramp shots, 11 shots total, 2 completely cool and unique toys, a literal MOUNTAIN of cool castle parts, the biggest subway in years, a wild and wicked magnet save, and a whole lot of goodness in here. If that doesn't get you excited, then this game probably isn't for you.
Right now we've only got 1 voice in the game with little work done to any of it... remember we switched systems just a short time ago? Not going to have this flooded with monster growls, werewolves, Igor, and Alice all jacked up in a month.
We are intentionally NOT saying numbers at this stage in the hopes that more of you CAN see and play it for yourselves. Best we can do at this stage.
Tons of work to do yet... Fawzma and Bowen are working well together, we have 2 hit games on our hands, and what more can we ask for? 
I think most of us on this thread are just excited about the new spooky machine. I love it and want to see it be the best it can be for us but mainly for you Charlie. We love Spooky and the way you have proven to the industry that you can be s legit and small company and make it!
Again thank you for taking on a Alice Cooper pinball. We want to see this get hype and it's just due.
Chiz
Quoted from SpookyCharlie:In the words of Aaron Rodgers, R-E-L-A-X...
Adding targets absolutely everywhere isn't cost effective, or logical. This game is BY FAR the most expensive thing we've ever built... if you want 5 easy shots, those games are out there in abundance. We'll be making some small changes to help this a bit, but ... in the words of the King, play better?! Lol.
The smallest targets we can get ARE WIDER THAN THE NARROW POSTS WE USE! This would make the game even harder. More targets also means more inserts, more switch boards, more engineering, more art changes, more re-approvals... not as easy as it sounds in a pinball forum, or remotely cost effective. We have to make tough decisions on where to put the $$$ in every game we do.
You've got 4 ramp shots, 11 shots total, 2 completely cool and unique toys, a literal MOUNTAIN of cool castle parts, the biggest subway in years, a wild and wicked magnet save, and a whole lot of goodness in here. If that doesn't get you excited, then this game probably isn't for you.
Right now we've only got 1 voice in the game with little work done to any of it... remember we switched systems just a short time ago? Not going to have this flooded with monster growls, werewolves, Igor, and Alice all jacked up in a month.
We are intentionally NOT saying numbers at this stage in the hopes that more of you CAN see and play it for yourselves. Best we can do at this stage.
Tons of work to do yet... Fawzma and Bowen are working well together, we have 2 hit games on our hands, and what more can we ask for?
It's your game and your company Charlie. Make it the way you want it to be and if you do a good job at it everything will take care of itself. Can't make everyone happy, or maybe the saying for pinball should be "you can't make anyone happy" lol.
I played quite a few games and did hit the lock a number of times. The game has some tough shots but I like that. With all the noise at the show I didn't put the effort into figuring out how to get through the modes but had fun shooting the game. You do "brick" some shots but when you start to feel out where they are, they become quite satisfying. If you want an easy game that makes you feel good every time I would suggest picking up a used LOTR. If you like the castle adventure that this is and want to have to work a little then this will be right up your alley.
Quoted from Magicchiz:I think most of us on this thread are just excited about the new spooky machine. I love it and want to see it be the best it can be for us but mainly for you Charlie.
So are we!!! I'm already happy... we're just trying to make our customers happy and get this game awesome! I think we're pretty close.
I'm also fairly exhausted. Lol... pinball is HARD! Really hard. It's also really worth it.
Back to work... got a pile of TnA's to inspect.
Quoted from RustyLizard:I played quite a few games and did hit the lock a number of times. The game has some tough shots but I like that. With all the noise at the show I didn't put the effort into figuring out how to get through the modes but had fun shooting the game. You do "brick" some shots but when you start to feel out where they are, they become quite satisfying. If you want an easy game that makes you feel good every time I would suggest picking up a used LOTR. If you like the castle adventure that this is and want to have to work a little then this will be right up your alley.
Agreed. I welcome the challenge of games like this or Black Hole where multi-ball isn't a gimme and you have to really work for it. I just wonder how many casual players would be able to get multi-ball started during a game? In the grand scheme it probably is a non issue since there are only going to be 500 games made and the vast majority going to collector's homes that are pretty skilled at pinball. It seems like a game designed for "us" rather than casuals or people to play on route.
Quoted from MikeS:Agreed. I welcome the challenge of games like this or Black Hole where multi-ball isn't a gimme and you have to really work for it. I just wonder how many casual players would be able to get multi-ball started during a game? In the grand scheme it probably is a non issue since there are only going to be 500 games made and the vast majority going to collector's homes that are pretty skilled at pinball. It seems like a game designed for "us" rather than casuals or people to play on route.
pretty sure the ball kickout after locking a single ball is just a patch since code is incomplete? (probably dont have the logic in for dealing with locked balls yet and I think Fawzma said there will be lock stealing capabilities in future state)
Quoted from Whysnow:pretty sure the ball kickout after locking a single ball is just a patch since code is incomplete? (probably dont have the logic in for dealing with locked balls yet and I think Fawzma said there will be lock stealing capabilities in future state)
Lock stealing is now in, it will be ready for game release.
Quoted from Whysnow:pretty sure the ball kickout after locking a single ball is just a patch since code is incomplete? (probably dont have the logic in for dealing with locked balls yet and I think Fawzma said there will be lock stealing capabilities in future state)
That makes sense and would be great to have as an option as it would give the game some System 11 charm with the lock stealing as opposed to early Gottlieb type difficulty. I hope they leave the option for both as I appreciate the extra difficulty of having to re-lock. But then again I'm one of the few that actually likes when a game punishes you when you mess up. -kind of like on Black Hole when you don't complete a drop target bank and it drains your ball.
I didn't really hear much for actual Alice Cooper songs in this video demo. When do the actual album tracks play during the game?
Quoted from DrMark12PA:I didn't really hear much for actual Alice Cooper songs in this video demo. When do the actual album tracks play during the game?
I'm pretty sure they said that the tracks had to be earned. My assumption is that's during the battle with the monsters, but I'm not 100% sure when they will actually trigger. To date the only track I heard was "Feed My Frankenstein" upon the reveal of the Frankenstein monster. The start of the song really works for the start of a mode.
Quoted from SpookyCharlie:In the words of Aaron Rodgers, R-E-L-A-X...
Go, Charlie...you da man! Despite my gripes about the lackluster delivery, sounds like there are reasons for that (and it must have been brutal for AC to deliver what sounds like 700+ sound bites). That said, sounds like we can trust the callouts will be snazzed up for release. Great news!
I'm down for ACNC AND TNA and can hardly wait.
Spooky is ballin'! Spooky balls?! 
Quoted from gliebig:COME ON PINFEST!!!!!!
is there any confirmation that ACNC will be at pinfest?
Quoted from SpookyCharlie:The smallest targets we can get ARE WIDER THAN THE NARROW POSTS WE USE!
somebody managed to find an easy and obvious solution to that problem.
American pinball cut those targets down to make them even thinner to accommodate their already too tight 'one too many shots up the playfield' layout.
not all of the posts on AC are as narrow as others.
ACNC Song List: (Alice Cooper Songs Only)
1. Feed My Frankenstein
2. Cold Ethyl
3. Lost in America
4. Disco Bloodbath Boogie Fever
5. No More Mr. Nice Guy
6. Brutal Planet
7. It's the Little Things
8. Billion Dollar Babies
9. Go To Hell
10. I Love the Dead
Quoted from greenhornet:American pinball cut those targets down to make them even thinner to accommodate their already too tight 'one too many shots up the playfield' layout.
Yes, because their playfield design is flawed IMO. Sounds like a band-aid solution! 
Quoted from StylesBitchly:Yes, because their playfield design is flawed IMO. Sounds like a band-aid solution!
that's an interesting quote, considering the same solution is being proposed for this game.
anyway, I don't think mini targets instead posts would help hit those ACNC shots. play better, lol.
about new inserts needed for new targets, TOM comes to my mind, where you got those little targets in the center ramp which feedback is only via dmd/sound and have a function, to collect hits to lite the trap door. those are nice, I imagine bare posts in that shot would be a nightmare. what a great game TOM is!
Quoted from fantarama:that's an interesting quote, considering the same solution is being proposed for this game.
I would like to get some actual measurement on Houdini and ACNC. Curious if my perception of shot width is real or just how it feels???
I have played quite a bit on both. ACNC is like NoFear to me; tight shots but all doable and once you get the feel you start making them more regularly. I think they could be refined to be better but they are good/tough as is.
Houdini on the other hand is just too tight. I have given it lots of attempts and it is just too much for me personally.
Quoted from greenhornet:not all of the posts on AC are as narrow as others.
Yeah... and you didn't work here 6 months ago when those 2 posts and associated rubbers for the side to side bounce / mech protection got absolutely destroyed every other week on the whitewood. They also aren't sitting in the sweet spot for an orbit, ramp, or anything super critical to game play. The scoop shot can be hit from either flipper fairly simply, and the smart drops can be as well.
Narrowing up an existing target is a simple thing to do... adding it and all the associated items I described previously is completely different.
A hard shot to hit isn't a "FLAW"... it just means it's a hard shot to hit. If every game was easy to shoot and all the shots were wide open, not much fun in that.
I played the daylights out of Houdini at MGC, and genuinely enjoyed it. Played Maiden, and congratulated Keith on a great game. Alice was there and won best new game. All 3 games couldn't be more different from each other, and that's a GREAT thing.
Quoted from Whysnow:Houdini on the other hand is just too tight. I have given it lots of attempts and it is just too much for me personally.
Yes, that is the general consensus from many of the players who have commented. Which is why I said I think their playfield design is flawed IMO. If being really hard was the intent then OK. But, I think too hard isn't fun either. Glad to hear ACNC isn't too hard like that. Sorry Charlie. You know far better than I about pin design.
Added over 6 years ago: I got a chance to play this game at PATZ. It's an absolutely beautiful game! One of the most beautiful games I've ever seen IMO! Also play well. It;s a challenge for sure. Not for the casual player.
Quoted from StylesBitchly:You know far better than I about pin design.
Lol.... I'm far from perfect and certainly not where I want to be yet, but we did bring in help on this game from far better players than I to refine and smooth out everything the best we could.
I'm going to get back to work and tune out for a while. Better for the sanity.
Quoted from SpookyCharlie:Lol.... I'm far from perfect and certainly not where I want to be yet, but we did bring in help on this game from far better players than I to refine and smooth out everything the best we could.
I'm going to get back to work and tune out for a while. Better for the sanity.
I thought the game played well at TPF. I didn't have many "bricked" shots while playing.
Hence the reason I ordered one. 
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