Huh?!?

Rob Zombie callouts are awesome! Even though a lot of people don't like the game, most acknowledge the callouts are great. Beyond R&M and RZ...I guess I can't really argue. AMH and ACNC weren't exactly good. **understatement**

I'm interested in both versions of this new game, but I have to admit, I'm not extremely confident in the callouts based on the minuscule amount we've heard. I hope PJ's callouts aren't as valley girl sounding as the one clip in the video, and the Loomis fake is kinda cringy. We'll see. I still think they both look somewhere between interesting and awesome.

I don't typically tell people that their opinion is wrong, but...

That's not one of my favs, but you're right that Sig crushed it. I actually think all three of them did a great job. Rob sounds really natural, unlike Metallica or Alice Cooper.

I don't think that RZ (layout/rules) is anything special, but I love RZ music, and the callouts are so good that I don't see ever selling that game. Gets ragged on all the time around here, but it's great fun.

I blitzed through all of the movies the last week or so too. I had actually missed a couple in the middle over the years, didn't know there were any I hadn't seen.

On one hand, all of the non-RZ Halloween movies are the same exact plot progression. Got really old watching 60 minutes of semi-pointless build-up, and then 30 minutes of Michael Myers killing people before he "dies" at the end.

The first 3 movies were all good, and didn't really follow the path all the other sequels repeated. But man, all the sequels after 3 really suck (didn't watch 2018 yet)! The fact that they have retconned their retcons should be all you need to know. What a complete mess of a storyline. They all ignore 3, H2O ignores all but 1 and 2. 2018 ignores all except 1. Huh?

I know I'll get a ton of disagreement here, but I actually liked the RZ remakes. The RZ movies get a lot of shit, but I just watched them, and other than the first 3 movies, they are BY FAR better than anything else in the series (again, I can't compare 2018 since I haven't watched it yet). Way different style for sure, and they probably earned points from be because I wasn't bored watching the same story progression AGAIN, which is how I felt watching 4 thru 8. I get people think the original Halloween is hallowed ground and cannot be tampered with, but I have to say, both RZ versions were so much better than they get credit for. That said, I'm probably more into violent, gory horror than slow, plodding horror, so they were more my style than the style of all the stupid post-Halloween 3 sequels.

Yeah, I know which ones are supposed to be connected. I'm just pointing out what a hot mess it is, and because of that, why it shouldn't be surprising that most of the sequels really suck.

And to your point, Busta Rhymes kung fu...yeah, OK. Who's F'n idea was that? I mean, I'm not a huge JLC fan, but she's obviously the matriarch of the franchise. Could there be any lower point than her getting unceremoniously killed off 15 minutes into the movie, only to have Busta Rhymes and his lame kung fu take over the torch? I'm not a Halloween sycophant or anything, but come one...that's complete sacrilege!

Halloween 3 is so different, it's difficult to compare (better/worse) than the others. It's come back into vogue these days I guess, but I always liked that one ever since I was a kid.

Halloween 2 is the best "sequel" by far. (Halloween 3 isn't really a storyline sequel). Halloween 2 feels like a continuation of the first movie (because it basically is) and it's the only one that doesn't follow the 60 minutes of nothing followed by 30 minutes of killing that all the other movies follow.

I agree with this totally, except for probably the Halloween 4 part. I got so bored with all the post-Halloween 3 sequels. Cookie-cutter script, mildly different settings. Granted F13 (and essentially any horror franchise) gets pretty formulaic after a few sequels, but watching the Halloween movies back-to-back really made me feel deja vu, and not in a good way.

These are definitely on my "start from the beginning and re-watch" list. It's been so long I can't distinguish which are which these days, but I do remember there were some of the later ones where Jason was such a badass and there were some pretty fun death scenes. That's what made F13 so fun...the creative death sequences.

LOL - I remember going to see at least one of the Friday the 13th movies in the theater with my mother. I was nowhere close to old enough to see it, but she was cool like that. Who knew that horror movies and bloody video games DON'T actually turn people into violent assholes. Huh!

I think that's because they leaned into the creative deaths and not taking itself too seriously. Harpoon to the eye (in 3D no less), squeezing someone's head until their eyes pop out, and swinging someone that's inside a sleeping bag into a tree like a baseball bat. It's been decades since I've seen F13 movies, and yet I still remember so many of Jason's kills. Iconic.

Chris @ kingpin is awesome. I've bought 5 or 6 games from him over the years and he's been great!

Just found out I'm 123. Definitely earlier than I was expecting.

And I've had more than my share of issues with a few of the games I've gotten (manufacturer issues - Not Kingpin-related). Rest assured that Chris will take care of you. He's been great to deal with across the board.

Sounds good. And I have a spare room you can stay in too if you help me work through the games that need tweaking/repair.

This and the fact that UM has got to be an easier theme to fit into "traditional" pinball, not to mention it has a lot more diverse assets.

I'm not dogging HWN, or even saying it may not eventually be the more compelling final product, but a slow-paced movie, with frankly not a ton going on, HAS to be harder to work with than a frenetic monster battle theme.

Everything about UM seems to fit more naturally into pinball: high-paced action, different monsters to battle, upbeat music, etc. Everything about HWN is the opposite, which makes it a compelling concept, but requires more out-of-the-box thinking from Spooky.

I was immediately interested in both themes since I grew up on both properties. I figured I'd hedge my bet (shrubbery pun not intended) by going in on both games. I already have EHOH and plan on getting Stern Godzilla, so for theme diversity, I *want* to prefer HWN. I really love how campy UM is, but I'm not sure that I need 3 different B-movie themed pins. However, after the first stream, I thought UM looked far more fun.

I'm in the low 100s for both games, so my HWN should show up a couple of months before UM. So, unless I see some deal-breaker stuff, I'll likely take possession of HWN and play it at least until my UM arrives and then make a decision.

I'm glad you and others are, but I (as a Halloween fan as well) am not loving everything I see so far. HOWEVER, I fully realize how early it is and have not passed judgement. I'm just not as optimistic as I was when I heard about the theme. I'm encouraged to hear Luke admit that HWN is behind UM because of licensing delays. This means more positive changes could/should be coming.

As someone who also grew up with UM, I'm loving how this title is progressing. I went into this banking on HWN, but staying open to UM. After my first impression I'm more banking on UM, but keeping myself open to HWN. I'll be in a real pickle if both turn out to be amazing, so I'm closet-rooting for one or the other to go in a direction I don't like, so my decision is easier.

And this is kinda why I'm not vibing with HWN yet. I agree it should feel like these things, but to me, it doesn't. There are a ton of pinball things that don't translate over a stream...obviously. And one of the least transferable things is atmosphere. But between the weird floating cut-out illustrations (like the waving-hand and bobbing head), the really orange playfield, the bright flashy lights, and some other things I can't put my finger on - I'm concerned that this game is currently stuck in the middle of trying to be brooding and atmospheric, but not exactly getting there.

Compare the lighting (color and intensity) of Alien to HWN. I don't think playing Alien is that fun, but the game does set the tone with music and lights. At this point, HWN feels more Trick-or-Treat than Michael is about to murder you. This can still change and I hope it does! Just voicing my "too early to have an opinion" opinion.

Oh, it would be amazing if this happened. Before they explained things, I imagined the idea of needing to access upper 1 to get to upper 2, and how cool it would be if there was a hurry-up on upper 2 and you had to speed through each playfield from the bottom to get to the shot you need.

That said, when Spooky made the recent comment, I assume this had to do with qualifying playfields versus re-engineering access from 1 to 2. I would welcome being wrong!

This is another good example. STh has become great, and it walks the line between cheesy/fun at times and dark/atmospheric at others. I think their choice of lighting colors and brightness levels helps. HWN is just so bright and orange right now that it feels more "trick or treat, smell my feet" than run for your life. But light show colors are easy for them to change if they choose to.

I think they are well done, they just aren't "fear inducing" so to speak. I like the AIQ animations too, and these feel similar, also meaning that they aren't really scary. Again, I think a lot of this could be placeholder, so I'm not freaking out about any of it.

I would go so far as to say MOST pops from any manufacturer are totally over-rated. Example: STh has turned into an awesome game. How does the ball going up the dead-end right orbit, bouncing around a bit, then falling out of the same controlled lane add anything? Unless you just need to hear solenoids thumping.

I have a lot of popular games, and most of them release the ball from the pops down a controlled lane (MM, AFM, TOTAN, EHOH, SW, JP2, STTNG, SS, BoP, etc.). CV at least puts the rising pop exposed in the middle. And games like TNA, R&M, and RZ add an interesting spin with exposed pops. Just adding 3 pops to one of the top corners with a controlled exit adds nothing to me.

Jesus dude!

Do we need to get that guy in here that accuses everyone of being a horny posting boomer?

I was all ready to call you out for false advertising (assuming you didn't incorporate the Drowning Pool song). Alas, you did. Kudos. I love old school Drowning Pool!

Alien is really more the comp for how this game could/should set the mood with the video clips.

I still have concerns about how well Halloween translates to pinball given how little actually happens in the movie. But if the modes are inspired by movie events, then I would think the clips should set the stage for the upcoming mode, to create whatever mood. During and between modes is where the game will rely on the animations to carry the visual interest, which actually gives them so much more flexibility. They can include illustrated interpretations of movie stuff, even if the movie doesn't contain the shot they want. There's an animation looking over Michael's shoulder next to the hedge that does this now. Shots like that and the lightning outside the house actually look pretty cool, although repetitive.

The problem with most of the other animations (aside from being really repetitive) is that they're SO hokey. Decapitated Michael head bobbing around in the back seat with a dismembered floating hand? Come on. Same deal with the hand through the window, etc.

Not trying to shit on anyone's work, but you could literally import a few PNGs and create this level of animation in PowerPoint. If they can't come up with a better way to animate these, I'd rather see static illustrations than the bobbing and weaving clipart approach.

Most people bag on AIQ animations, but I think they look fine. They're high quality and simulate animated movement that feels organic. Like the style or not, they're really polished, and personally I think Stern did a good job with them (for what they are).

Any way you cut it, they're next level compared to the floating clipart approach here. I mean, I suppose if this was supposed to be cheesy like EHOH and you took this approach with the Deadheads it might play OK, but that isn't (or at least shouldn't be) the vibe they're going for here.

So, I don't have a ton of experience buying newly released Stern games, but I bought AIQ within 5 months of release and 3 previous Spooky games. I get that code matures over time, and I appreciate companies staying dedicated to improving games, but the above comment really rubs me the wrong way. I've never owned a game that was described as having skeleton code upon release. I know later code releases can transform the feel of a game, but it just seems like there's barely anything there, and that's according to Spooky themselves.

I love Spooky as much as the next guy, but come on. Just because the build schedule takes 12-18 months should not give a pass for the code to be totally unbaked for most of that period. Chuck said this playfield was being developed (in secret) for well over a year if memory serves. Why is the code SO unpolished? A lot of people who have played this think it could be awesome, but it could suck - and apparently it's gonna take a year for anyone to find out. Not cool.

I do, and I said I don't have a lot of experience with newly released Stern games, so I'm not even holding them to that standard (good or bad). But, I have bought 3 NIB Spooky games before. I totally get it's an evolution, but none of them felt as incomplete as HWN/UM are being described. R&M was the last release and while it grew over time, it never felt incomplete.

Look, I'm not calling for a lynching. I just don't think it's cool to charge $9K with a non-refundable deposit and push out a game that the company itself says is merely "roughed in" 2 months after launch.

This movie was kind of a jumbled mess. It didn't know what it wanted to be. It had some elements of all the following: classic suspenseful Halloween, slasher movie approach (more like Friday 13th), social justice messaging, horrible acting, cringey moments, cheesy plot points, etc. That said, the bar of Halloween sequels other than 2 (and obviously 3) is so low, that I actually enjoyed this hot mess more than most of the other Halloween movies, despite boat loads of negative.

I think for me what made it more entertaining was that it finally dropped the same formula that EVERY Halloween movie followed (other than 3), and got SO tired by the end of the string. Nothing happens for 45 minutes...people scared of Michael for 20 minutes...people die for 25 minutes...Michael "dies" at the end. Some sequels executed this worse than others, but when I binged all the movies a while back it got so monotonous, because they all fit into the same general cookie-cutter. I've always been more of a F13 fan than Halloween (as a full series of movies) and Michael behaving more like Jason and actually having some fun interesting kills (sexy nurse-doctor death was hilarious/awesome!) felt fresh for Halloween. Ignore the fact that this means senior citizen Michael was more athletic and dynamic than all his earlier versions. Also, no offense, but less is more when it comes to JLC too, so that also helped.

Ending was STUPID (Michael isn't the enemy, hate is...ugh)! Totally should have just ended it here. Unless something crazeballs and creative happens in the last movie, I feel like it isn't needed.

LOL - yes that one. Trust me, he's not the only one who thinks that movie was awesome. Always liked that movie since I watched it when I was little, and it has much more of a cult following now.

Calling it one of the 10 worst films of all time is the true blasphemy! Even lots of "true" Halloween fans think it was the best of all the sequels, and DEFINITELY blows away many of them (ahem - Busta Rhymes Kung Fu master?!?!).

Cheesy - yes.
Awesome - also yes.
Dr. Dan's porn stache FTW!