(Topic ID: 263158)

Spooky, CGC, and Ben Heck join forces!!!

By Whysnow

1 year ago


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    42
    #1 1 year ago

    New Ben Heck game is coming!!!!

    A collaboration between spooky and CGC with Ben Heck design and a licensed theme.

    No limit on quantity and a BIG theme by the sounds of it.

    #3 1 year ago

    About 1hr 40min in

    #9 1 year ago

    That would be amazing!!!

    #12 1 year ago
    Quoted from Tsskinne:

    Details for those of us who don’t have time to listen right now?

    Added pretty much all that was shared in first post. White wood is done, more details to come including whom is on full team.

    Dug and Charlie working to make this happen. Too big a license for spooky so spooky design team combined with CGC manufacturing abilities.

    Honestly makes perfect sense and since both companies are combined the best quality in pinball currently, this means good things!

    #19 1 year ago
    Quoted from moto_cat:

    Franchi doing the art?

    Oh, please no

    #21 1 year ago
    Quoted from delt31:

    evil dead - I believe he already mentioned this was his unfinished game on Kaneda. Could of changed though.
    With CGC being involved they are no question now a hired entity when it comes to producing games for others. Hmmmmm what other rumored game has been looking for a manufacturer......

    Evil Dead would seem more os a boutique run of 750 I think.

    I would guess it is a bigger license than evil dead???

    #23 1 year ago
    Quoted from PW79:

    Spooky should contract CGC to make a large run of Rick & Morty

    They have been clear at least 30times over, R&M is only 750.

    This is a new game and a Ben Heck design.

    #28 1 year ago
    Quoted from Zablon:

    What's a big licensed theme that fits Spooky, CGC and Ben Heck?
    We know Evil Dead fits, but....
    I would actually think it has to be something more recent.
    And if not. Alien! :p

    I wonder if they would do alien or even predator. Both are proven themes that would also fit.

    Are there any other adult swim themes that are super big? They have that relationship now, so could leverage it

    #98 1 year ago
    Quoted from jellikit:

    [quoted image]

    would be great.

    That or Princess Bride!

    #107 1 year ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    Ben was frustrated by his game being pushed back for years because Spooky made the choice to put Rick & Morty on their line.

    I dont think that is even remotely accurate. Ben's game was ready long before the R&M timeline.
    I think the real reason was licensing issues/costs in the past, but dont quote me on that.

    This makes sense as CGC can do a bigger run and has the license buying power/ability from that larger run.

    #154 1 year ago

    all I gotta say is that if there are any 2 teams were this seems to be a perfect fit, it is these 2.

    They seem to have a logical combined net positive and I am super excited to see what comes!

    #219 1 year ago
    Quoted from Jazman:

    I'm guessing this is also going to use the new Pinotaur boardset that Parker has been working on with Ben...

    I hope so and this is also another logical step of why this team work is a good idea. Proc is expensive and the CGC board can be improved.

    New boardset could be clutch in many ways.

    14
    #314 1 year ago
    Quoted from PW79:

    Lol, I am way too high to figure that algebra out right now.
    I legit want to know. Is Spooky scaling up via CGC?
    If so... they got something good I bet

    If you listen to the podcast is is all pretty obvious.
    Think of spooky as the design team and idea team.
    Think of CGC as the mechanical engineer and production team.

    Spooky's limitaitons/needs = the ability to design and make new cool mechs that require fabrication and engineering + the ability to make more than 500 games a year.
    Spooky's abilities = a great idea, game design, code, etc... team of allstars + the ability to now go get large licenses.

    CGC limitations/need = they lack novel ideas and people to make it all come together. They are running out of all star classics to remake and will need to start sprinkling in new and novel games. Gotta assume they have been wanting to build something on their own since Day 1 of dealing with Rick. Guy is a class act all the way around and can you imagine your entire reproduction game business being held in his hands. Time to diversify and show they can do a cool new game.

    CGC abilities = engineers for cool mechs and the ability to build 1000s of quality games a year.

    I expect we see some sort of very cool mech in Ben's game. How he thinks and CGC can make his thoughts into a reality.
    I expect we see a build quality that is top notch and possibly a new/improved boardset that then allows Spooky to also get away from being locked on Proc.
    I expect we see a big licensed theme. Something that can easily sell 2000 games. Guesisng we see the CGC model of standard and big screen special edition (or whatever they call them).

    Both short term and long term possible benefits for both companies and pinball as a whole.

    Real competition to Stern being the production big dog.

    I wonder if this means Stern also needs to step up quality finally?

    #317 1 year ago
    Quoted from PW79:

    Right
    CGC will manufacture so Spooky can avoid losing $5M in unrealized sales like with R&M?
    That's smart.
    Buckle up Stern lol

    I am not sure if it just your wording or you dont get it?

    Nobody lost money with unrealized sales on R&M

    This is about new collaborations and team work moving forward.
    You are correct that Stern has surely taken notice (they did before with their Dankberg moves to grab licences from Spooky)

    #319 1 year ago
    Quoted from DanDanDAN:

    Unrealized sales aren't a loss

    that was my point

    #329 1 year ago
    Quoted from MikeS:

    I would speculate that this pin is likely more of a CGC game than Spooky. It's probably just a case where in order to utilize the game that Spooky paid Ben to develop that they need to cut Spooky a slice of the pie to compensate. Maybe Spooky helped with the licensing too but this doesn't seem like a situation where it's a Spooky game developed completely in house and then contract manufactured out to CGC.

    I think it is the opposite.

    This is very much a spooky designed and coded game; just built and produced by CGC.

    It is kind of like the kapow/Stern relationship, but more on the spectrum of the Spooky side for game input and development plus more collaboration of both.
    This is not a 'contract' but a "team build"

    IMHO, the way it should be.

    #344 1 year ago
    Quoted from luvthatapex2:

    I have to stop you there. Spooky embracing the P-roc expanded their capacities and gave them tried and true technology. I don't see them replacing something that is working fine. Ben and parkers new board is improved from their previous iteration (pinheck) but it's capacities are unknown and its untested in the real world. It looks good so far but aside from a lower cost I see no benefits yet. Besides thats a presumption anyway that Spooky would use this boardset just because CGC will use it with Bens game.

    Proc has been great. Was a much needed and great use for the current phase of Spooky.
    It is also expensive and a risk for any company looking to stabilize as they grow.
    I have zero idea what boardset will be used with this team build.

    I hope for Spooky that they can get to a point of greater control, lower cost, and full functionality for their boardset of the future.

    I am excited to see what the new Parker board does and if it is used.

    Again, Proc is great for what it is, but if buying 500+ a year, I would want to bring more control and savings in house...

    #382 1 year ago

    Worst part about this whole fucking thing...

    I keep getting Meatloaf songs stuck in my head!

    #384 1 year ago
    Quoted from FYMF:

    Would you prefer Silent Night?

    I would do anything

    But I won’t do that

    #406 1 year ago
    Quoted from Shapeshifter:

    Is it a triple A license though?

    no, it is not.

    It is all part of the joke through.

    #428 1 year ago
    Quoted from NeilMcRae:

    Why is it a risk? What more control does it give you? It's tried and tested and is getting larger and larger volumes allowing MM to make alot more and reduce the price. Versus trying to develop something expensive and at low volume requiring significant investment for a shop that can make, at most, 40 games a month. The most reliable part of TNA and ACNC is the PROC system, and PROC seems to be very reliable. As operators using PROC is helpful for us in being able to service games.

    What is the total cost for a P-roc system as set up in R&M?
    What is the total cost for the system currently used by CGC?

    Currently, this appears to be the only major component of a game that neither company controls themselves.
    At one point I know the Parker board was supposed to have all the functionality of other systems, meet the growing needs of game developers/manufacturers, and striking for a drastic reduction in price.

    Why would these 2 companies not explore this potential alternative and the benefits that could come?

    -1
    #447 1 year ago
    Quoted from gstellenberg:

    I'll stay out of a larger business discussion as it might apply here, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that you're either being fed wrong data, or you're making your own wrong conclusions. A P3-ROC system has more features than any other system I've seen in the industry so far (always happy to have a feature debate. ), and at high volume pricing, our prices will be very close to, and in many cases beat, similarly configured systems, even compared against systems developed and manufactured internally. BOM costs aside, the R&D advantages you get with our system (maturity, framework availability and features, extensibility, serviceability, short learning curve for programmers, etc) is unmatched in the industry, bar none.
    I know it's fun to use our boards as a scapegoat for higher BOM costs in low volume runs, but even in those low volume runs, it saves companies and their customers a lot of time, money, and frustration. At higher volumes, you'll likely even save money on BOMs.
    Everybody makes their purchasing decisions for their own reasons, but cost and capabilities are two reasons to go with the P-ROC ecosystem, not away from it.
    And yes, I'm biased. I've also lived and breathed the economics and technical details of pinball control systems for many years now. Anybody interested in making games should call me and discuss why our systems will be a net win.
    - Gerry
    https://www.multimorphic.com

    no doubt, you have a great product.

    Why is Stern not using it?
    What is CGC not using it?

    That answer is likely the same for why a growing company may decide to look for something else/ an internal solution.

    #448 1 year ago
    Quoted from gstellenberg:

    I'll stay out of a larger business discussion as it might apply here, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that you're either being fed wrong data, or you're making your own wrong conclusions. A P3-ROC system has more features than any other system I've seen in the industry so far (always happy to have a feature debate. ), and at high volume pricing, our prices will be very close to, and in many cases beat, similarly configured systems, even compared against systems developed and manufactured internally. BOM costs aside, the R&D advantages you get with our system (maturity, framework availability and features, extensibility, serviceability, short learning curve for programmers, etc) are unmatched in the industry, bar none.
    I know it's fun to use our boards as a scapegoat for higher BOM costs in low volume runs, but even in those low volume runs, it saves companies and their customers a lot of time, money, and frustration. At higher volumes, you'll likely even save money on BOMs.
    Everybody makes their purchasing decisions for their own reasons, but cost and capabilities are two reasons to go with the P-ROC ecosystem, not away from it.
    And yes, I'm biased. I've also lived and breathed the economics and technical details of pinball control systems for many years now. Anybody interested in making games should call me and discuss why our systems will be a net win.
    - Gerry
    https://www.multimorphic.com

    also, ignoring economies of scale/ price breaks for buying for 750 games, what is the retail cost if I want to buy a full replacement set of all the boards for R&M?

    #452 1 year ago
    Quoted from gstellenberg:

    Retail pricing is found in our web store: https://www.multimorphic.com/category/circuit-boards/
    P3-ROC (the main controller) : $175
    SW-16 (switch input board) : $45
    PD-16 (coil driver board) : $85
    PD-LED (LED/Servo/Stepper driver board) : $70
    - Gerry
    https://www.multimorphic.com

    Is this the full set needed for R and M? Or donI need multiples of some?

    -3
    #459 1 year ago
    Quoted from gstellenberg:

    You probably know that better than I do. When I got out of my morning meetings, R&M was sold out! My email to Charlie and Kayte that day was a heartfelt congratulations.
    I can't imagine anybody would ever need a full set of replacements. If a board makes it through testing, the odds of one of our boards dying from normal use are super low. Maybe have a spare of each in case of an accidental short? You can always replace your spare later if necessary.
    - Gerry
    https://www.multimorphic.com

    honestly, I have zero clue. Hence my question.

    How man of each are used on R&M?

    I figured this was and easy question for you to answer. I was trying to understand what the full retail cost of the full Proc system running R&M is.

    This

    Quoted from gstellenberg:

    P3-ROC (the main controller) : $175
    SW-16 (switch input board) : $45
    PD-16 (coil driver board) : $85
    PD-LED (LED/Servo/Stepper driver board) : $70

    makes it sound like under $400, but my understanding is that the game likely needs multiples of each the coil, switch, and led boards?

    What is the TOTAL retail cost of all the boards in R&M?

    #462 1 year ago
    Quoted from Eric_S:

    In regard to PROC, I think one of the overlooked aspects is that the board set has been "out in the wild" for a number of years and has done very well. Don't underestimate the importance of a rugged circuit board set that can handle the rigors of continuous use. I also like that the PROC system is widely available and reasonably priced, especially in comparison to the Stern node boards.
    While a new board set from Ben may have great features and a reduced price, it will take a few years of the board set being used in games to see if it has the longevity to withstand the rigor of everyday use. Just due to that unknown, I prefer the PROC option since it is already proven itself to hold up. I am curious what other features the new board set that Ben is making will have though.

    all very well said.

    I agree on all points.

    -5
    #464 1 year ago

    1 - P3-ROC (the main controller) : $175
    4 - SW-16 (switch input board) : $45x4 = $180
    2 - PD-16 (coil driver board) : $85x2 = $170
    5 - PD-LED (LED/Servo/Stepper driver board) : $70 x 5 = $350

    so $875 in total retail board set

    thanks

    I love P-roc for all the reasons stated.

    If anyone can make a new board set at a lesser price with the stability and functionality, then it sounds like there is a market for it.

    I personally am excited to see what others may bring to market.

    -12
    #473 1 year ago
    Quoted from jwilson:

    Not sure what Hilton’s agenda is to continue poking at P-ROC. It’s probably not even the most expensive part of the game.
    You’re ignoring the years and years of development experience in the ecosystem, the highly mature frameworks that make games like ACNC, TNA and now R&M possible.
    As someone who wasted over a year on a “cheaper” solution before going to P-ROC and finally vanquishing all my board issues forever, you need to look at more than the pure dollar (and RETAIL at that) values. It’s certainly cheaper than STERN boards but I don’t hear any crying about that from you.
    On the topic of the CGC board set it seems optimized to handle emulation duties primarily vs original content. Not sure it’s even in the running.

    edit: I have been asked not to talk about this so deleting it.

    Apparently I ruffled some feathers with even floating the idea.

    #480 1 year ago
    Quoted from littlecammi:

    How many people will buy this game just for the heck of it?

    I will buy it like a bat out of hell!

    #526 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    So I'm new to the Spooky discussion here... I'm trying to find some information about Ben - what I'm finding is that:
    1) he designed the AMH game, which is fine
    2) he quit Spooky (a company i think he helped found? or was at least involved in the early days)
    3) he used to make youtube videos
    4) he modded some consoles (very creative ideas in that department, but nothing to do with pinball)
    4) he's designed one or two other games which never actually got made
    what am i missing here? what's the rest of the story? I think AMH is a fine go at a first pin, but i'm totally missing what the "big deal" is. Are there other games at Spooky or other companies that he helped design?

    Ben is an all around good dude (and friend)

    Ben is in general, a hacker. He has a keen ability to never accept the standard, push the limits, and has both a creative and engineering brain with a can do attitude. Ben understands good pinball design and while AMH may feel a bit garage built (because it was), the design and ideas are great (would love to see one built to todays Spooky build quality). Ben also understands all things gaming and rick v reward to make somehting both challenging and fun.

    To me, Ben fits right in line with Elwin and Danesi as "getting it"

    I personally have see and played many of his whitewood projects over the years and Ben is full of great ideas.
    While I wont share any of the details, if CGC can properly engineer in a production world some of the toys Ben has created in the past, then we are in for a real treat!

    #528 1 year ago
    Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

    So the consensus seems to be “great promise”, not a proven past history (at least not yet). I’m not trolling, just trying to understand the situation. Cool, well I look forward to the delivery on these big promises!

    Yes, great potential. Esp with the team work behind all of this.

    Also, I would say there are 3 very proven past histories with Spooky, CGC, and Ben Heck.
    The excitement for me is seeing it all come together.

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